I get confused with this because I know that if a Muslim that doesn't pray willingly he's considered a kaafir, but then what about the shahada?
I tried to advise someone about salah and told him that a muslim who doesn't pray is considered a kaafir, and he got really offended :x I didn't mean to offend him or relate him to a kaafir, but that's how he took it...he said the shahada is what makes them a Muslim..but how much is the shahada's weight compared to salaah?
Its not a religious duty of a Muslim to call anyone a Faasiq. Nor is it within our knowledge, whether our own Ibadah is anywhere near good enough to deserve forgiveness. Often people in need of advice are turned away very indirectly, when someone tell's them that due to their current position of not practicing acts of Ibadah; they have become Faasiq or Kaafir.
So why do most people on here, think its ok to do just that ?
It wasnt long ago, that someone referred to me as a kaafir on this very forum ? (no1 has the right to call any1 that) funny really, cos even being so slack, i knew that was wrong. Isnt hurting another muslim feelings a sin, even if it is verbal ? I mite not have as much knowledge of islam as any of you guys, but at least i know how to speak to people with respect & I would never EVER refer to someone as that. Its not my place.
I tried to advise someone about salah and told him that a muslim who doesn't pray is considered a kaafir, and he got really offended :x I didn't mean to offend him or relate him to a kaafir, but that's how he took it...he said the shahada is what makes them a Muslim..but how much is the shahada's weight compared to salaah?
and anyway, i thort you werent allowed to have male friends ? or was it a family member ? funny how no1 picked up on that ?
Look, sister distressed. You're just getting the wrong end of the straw and lashing out at people for no real reason.
Let's set this straight. It started with the whole fasiq thing.
Your first post in this thread:
Its not as simple as that, if a muslim doesnt pray cos he doesnt belive its necessary, or not part of islam is known as a kaafir, but one who doesnt pray out of laziness...isnt
My post, AGREEING with what you said:
This is correct. According to the majority of ulema, such a person would be considered fasiq, not kaafir.
Then serena asks what a fasiq is, to which I reply:
Serena, a faasiq is an open sinner/corrupt person.
And your reply to that:
corrupt ? just cos a person doesnt pray, doesnt automatically make them a corrupt person, that can mean loads of different things, they are disobedient to the faith, and sinning, your right, but hardly corrupt.
So here you are INCORRECTLY assuming I said fasiq is only related to those people who do not pray. I have repeatedly set straight in this thread, that this is not the case. Fasiq refers to a sinner, doing any major open sin. Not just missing prayers.
And there is nothing wrong with translating fasiq as corrupt - what else are you going to CLASSIFY* someone who does major sins as though it's nothing?
* And please be clear here, we're not talking about saying this to their faces or looking down on them. This is simply for the purposes of classifiying those ACTS that would make one a fasiq.
Put it into context: Major sins are liable for punishment in hell. If someone is doing something that is likely to take them to hell (if they don't change their ways) then what else except corrupt are they?
Someone sinning but realising he is sinning but still TRYING his best is a DIFFERENT MATTER ALTOGETHER and these people are not being referred to by me when I say fasiq.
So why do most people on here, think its ok to do just that ?
It wasnt long ago, that someone referred to me as a kaafir on this very forum ? (no1 has the right to call any1 that) funny really, cos even being so slack, i knew that was wrong. Isnt hurting another muslim feelings a sin, even if it is verbal ? I mite not have as much knowledge of islam as any of you guys, but at least i know how to speak to people with respect & I would never EVER refer to someone as that. Its not my place.
Right. So now just because SOMEONE on here said something wrong, apparently ALL the muslims here are one and the same? Is that how you see it?
Obviously, you can't brush everyone together. There are bad and confused people everywhere.
Nobody ought to look down on your lack of knowledge, nor think bad of you.
and anyway, i thort you werent allowed to have male friends ? or was it a family member ? funny how no1 picked up on that ?
We are told to beware of suspicion, make excuses and have a good opinion. In this case, it is perfectly plausible that she is referring to a family member and we have no reason to delve into this.
Please, you're just blowing this issue up for the sake of nothing. Read through this thread with a calm and OBJECTIVE mind.
I aint even gona bother replying to you, in depth, i have the pleasure of working with people in the same field as you. + I know how things work on this board. save your psycho-analysis for everyone else, & I was being sarcastic, just as you were being back to me.
I wasn't being sarcastic back to you-- there you again attributing your own folly and judgment unto others..
Thanks for not replying though-- it will save us both time and unnecessary lighthearted banter back and forth!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
It wasnt long ago, that someone referred to me as a kaafir on this very forum ? (no1 has the right to call any1 that) funny really, cos even being so slack, i knew that was wrong.
Then you should complain to the moderator if someone accused you of being a kaffir.
However with the concern of not praying, isn't it true that despite whatever good you do, if you neglect your prayers, your deeds do not count. Or let's say there was a married couple, both who always pray their prayers, but then all of a sudden the husband stops praying, doesn't his wife's 3iddah begin unless he returns to his prayers? And in the case of two people who do not pray and decide to get married, isn't their marraige void?
For someone who doesn't pray; their other deeds are useless in the Aakhirah. This doesn't change the fact that one should advise them towards prayer rather than trying to insult or humiliate them, which is proven to be unhelpful practically.
Anyone who missess any of his or her fara`idh on purpose; has committed an act of kufr. This appears in ahadeeth about those who doubt anything in the criteria of Shahadah, those who don't pray, and those who don't fast, or don't help the needy, etc.
Rasoolullah is reported to have said that a sinner is not in the state of Iman while he is sinning.
Missing Salah is a sin.
However, Islam gives us instructions for life as a whole; its not limited to the Masjid. A Muslim isn't a Muslim, whose Iman is limited to the Masjid. E.g. Allah curses those who pray and show off, and those who refuse to help the needy.
So why do most people on here, think its ok to do just that ?
It wasnt long ago, that someone referred to me as a kaafir on this very forum ? (no1 has the right to call any1 that) funny really, cos even being so slack, i knew that was wrong. Isnt hurting another muslim feelings a sin, even if it is verbal ? I mite not have as much knowledge of islam as any of you guys, but at least i know how to speak to people with respect & I would never EVER refer to someone as that. Its not my place.
We are all human beings, and are actually very good at making mistakes. This matter is one, where many people call each-other by a certain label; mostly without even realising they've done so. A person recently labelled much of the Muslim ummah as disbelievers unknowingly and quite indirectly. This problem mainly occurs due to people throwing rulings around without looking at the complete set of rules.
Islam teaches us to try giving advice; several examples are given in the Quran, and many in ahadeeth. If you see someone drinking alcohol; its better to inform them that the action of drinking alcohol is wrong, than to say "You were a Muslim who drank alcohol, so you became a kaafir...".
Complete your lifetime of Ibadah, and then consider calling someone a Faasiq (only once you've attained al-Yaqeen).
very true indeed.. Jazaka Allah khyran.. no one on this thread however was suggesting another Muslim a kaffir or a fasiq, rather a definition of what falls under those labels has been presented. We can't collectively be faulted for someone taking a definition personally.
What that echoes to me personally is anger with God and refusal to accept his commandments and judgment. Since we all know that judgment lies with Allah swt alone!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Complete your lifetime of Ibadah, and then consider calling someone a Faasiq (only once you've attained al-Yaqeen).
Jazak allahu khair, in my case I had the right intention it just didn't come out right. I recongize my mistake and inshallah I won't commit it again. The purpose of my questions were for my own understanding and clarity about our deen, basically for the purpose of knowing what Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and the rasul sallahu 3alahi wasalaam have taught us and not for the purpose or intention to label anyone with such terms. The more i know the more it helps my iman since I have fluctuations and would like to keep these as reminders to myself and during this process I understand the sensitivity of using these terms around others.
I hope inshallah no one else got offended, I sincerely apologize for what this thread has caused. Please forgive what has been said either from me or other members bi'idhnillah.
Barak allahu feek for your patience and assistance
To do justice to the title "Re: What makes a Muslim, Shahada or Salaah?"; the answer is given in the Quran and ahadeeth, as well as in explanations by mufassireen. The actions of a sinner are to be criticised, rather than the sinner, unless the sin get's to the point of harming others; either harming them physically, or their iman. Shahadah and Salah are only two of five pillars, of which its essential to perform as much of the actions of the pillars as one has the means and ability to do so.
What makes a Muslim a Muslim?
(2:1-5)
Alif, Lam, Meem.
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,
And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].
Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful.
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is reported to have said that a sinner is not in the state of Iman while he is sinning.
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