Is the position that a woman, Moslem or not, who does not wear hijaab, is eligible for rape, a valid one?
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
Rape is always about control. A man that rapes for the sake of being filled with lustful desires lacks the ability to control himself. A man that rapes in a war situation is exerting control of an innocent.
I don't understand your statement about kuffar no longer having fear over muslims. Are you suggesting that they should? I can understand a mutual respect. I can't understand one religious group fearing the other.
Muslims have little or no power in the world, it used to be the case that a Muslim woman was exposed, not even attacked and the whole muslim world would march to war against the people who wronged her.
This happened when Yazid, a tyrant amongst the early muslims heard of one muslim women being exposed by the romans. he sent a letter saying that this letter is at the head of the army, the back of the colemn only now leaves medina.
long after that no roman would think of looknig at a muslim woman, the kuffar (disbelivers) should fear those who bring justice only if they are injust but islam has come to end oppression whether that be amongst the muslims or non-muslims.
Muslims have little or no power in the world, it used to be the case that a Muslim woman was exposed, not even attacked and the whole muslim world would march to war against the people who wronged her.
This happened when Yazid, a tyrant amongst the early muslims heard of one muslim women being exposed by the romans. he sent a letter saying that this letter is at the head of the army, the back of the colemn only now leaves medina.
long after that no roman would think of looknig at a muslim woman, the kuffar (disbelivers) should fear those who bring justice only if they are injust but islam has come to end oppression whether that be amongst the muslims or non-muslims.
But it IS a valid Islamic position according to some... Sheikh Feiz Muhammad, a Salafi made this point only last year.
I'm asking is there ANY substance to this claim? Daleel please...
For the record, I don't think there IS any substance to the best of my knowlege.
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
That is ridiculous. A hijab isn't protection. Someone who wants to rape someone does so for desire to harm women, not have sex. It's about dominance, not desire.
Wearing a hijab isn't going to save anyone from rape.
Subhanallah. the limits you will go to to deny and reject hijab!
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
I don't think she's trying to deny or reject hijab. She's saying that hijab doesn't protect from rape!
No you should read the thread on hijaab elsewhere in the forum. She denies hijaab at whatever oppurtunity. And i would just like to say hijaab does protect from rape. Look at the levels of rape in countries like Saudi Arabia and compare them to America or UK. in Uk One in 40 women have been raped. Hijaab maintains modesty and decraeses the chances of molestation
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
No you should read the thread on hijaab elsewhere in the forum. She denies hijaab at whatever oppurtunity. And i would just like to say hijaab does protect from rape. Look at the levels of rape in countries like Saudi Arabia and compare them to America or UK. in Uk One in 40 women have been raped. Hijaab maintains modesty and decraeses the chances of molestation
I disagree. I'm sure this has been debated in other hijaab related threads.
Subhanallah. the limits you will go to to deny and reject hijab!
Unfair, unfair.
We are discussing rape here. My position is that a victim is not responsible for the actions of a rapist, and that a rapist will pick a victim based on different factors - and that veiling doesn't help. How many nuns are raped? How many muhajjabat and munaqqabat are raped?
I respect the rights of others to veil, but they don't do so to prevent rape, because rape is about power. Modesty - whatever the choice - isn't about rape, it's about appropriate interactions between human beings.
A rapist is not concerned with modesty. A modest woman isn't safer - and don't try the old "naked woman" red herring, because rapists are rapists. Why would someone rape a naked woman? That's not the issue for Muslims, it's about their lowering the eyes and not thinking about adultery.
I've never met anyone who was like, "she was so hot, i'd rape her!" It just doesn't play into normal sexual situations.
So my opinions on veiling are irrelevant for this conversation. (Besides which, I still believe in modesty.)
Is your religion real when it costs you nothing and carries no risk? Is your religion real when you fatten upon it? Is your religion real when you commit atrocities in its name? Whence comes your downward degeneration from the original revelation?
And i would just like to say hijaab does protect from rape. Look at the levels of rape in countries like Saudi Arabia and compare them to America or UK. in Uk One in 40 women have been raped. Hijaab maintains modesty and decraeses the chances of molestation
The UN WHO survey says that 30 percent of rural Bangladesh women describe their first sexual experience as "forced". That's about 1 in 3.
Of course hijab is not properly enforced there. But it is more common than in Britain.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.
Its so ironic how Allaah Almighty says:
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things)..
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things)..
& directly after that:
..and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them.
..and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment
Therefore its obvious that Allaah Almighty says that males and females should lower their gaze, that the women should not show their adornments (except to the mahrams) and that they should all protect their private parts from illegal sexual acts.
So just think about it - if the man was to lower his gaze, and protect his private parts from illegal sexual acts - he wouldn't be a rapist.
Therefore Allaah Almighty behind His Eternal Wisdom put the verses in this certain order to show that these crimes can be prevented if a person just lowers his/her gaze, and if the woman covers her adornments - the chance of rape will be really low.
This is then reinforced because Allaah Almighty tells both males and females to protect their private parts from illegal sexual acts.
Allaah Almighty knows best.
Last edited by - Qatada -; 05-17-2006 at 05:26 PM.
The UN WHO survey says that 30 percent of rural Bangladesh women describe their first sexual experience as "forced". That's about 1 in 3.
Of course hijab is not properly enforced there. But it is more common than in Britain.
Source?
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
Its so ironic how Allaah Almighty says: "..and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them."
Your argument is specious. Those are INTERPOLATIONS INTO THE TEXT - you have added the bits in the parentheses.
There is no reason to think this verse is about rape. Rapists aren't motivated by seeing your hair; this causes problems by causing lust in the opposite sex, not by stimulating a rapist. A rapist goes out looking for victims, and a veil isn't going to stop anyone.
Is your religion real when it costs you nothing and carries no risk? Is your religion real when you fatten upon it? Is your religion real when you commit atrocities in its name? Whence comes your downward degeneration from the original revelation?
I'm curious if anyone who thinks a veil would protect a women from rape, ever has desires to rape unveiled women (or personally know men who have these desires)?
A true Moslem male could have a naked woman pass before him and still keep his gaze firmly downwards as he removed himself from her presence.
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
Brother Dishdash, you should rephrase your question because there is no such thing as an 'eligible' rape.
As for the hijab yes indeed it is for protection. Allah(swt) had directed ALL muslim women to dress modestly to protect her from the evils lurking around.
In Islam, there is a reason for everything. Any muslim woman you see out there is no wearing hijab for her own health, but rather for protection.
At the same time, it is the man's fault if he decides to rape a women. Rape is a crime period. Whoever has commited the crime, has commited the sin..it is not a matter of women don't cover up or not.
Men do their jobs by lowering the gaze and dressing modestly.
Women do their jobs by lowering the gaze and dressing modestly.
period.
Do your charity in the name of Da'wah and help us out
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