Is the position that a woman, Moslem or not, who does not wear hijaab, is eligible for rape, a valid one?
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
That is ridiculous. A hijab isn't protection. Someone who wants to rape someone does so for desire to harm women, not have sex. It's about dominance, not desire.
Wearing a hijab isn't going to save anyone from rape.
A'salaam alaykum Sister ,
Hijab saves you from the outside world. It is a protection for women. Hijab gives you modesty and let others respect you.
Allah alone is sufficient for me.
I am a Muslim I say, "laa ilaaha illallaah Muhammadur-Rasoolullaah." There is none worthy of worship except Allaah, Muhummad is the Messenger of Allaah.
a woman dressed indecently with attract more attention than one wearing hijab, therefore the former is more prone to assault. the sin of rape is on the rapist, but i think the victim if she was dressed indecently was not taking precautions to prevent the crime. its like locking your front door to keep away burglars, you can leave your home wide open and it could get robbed. the sin of robbery is not yours, but you could have done something to prevent it.
a woman dressed indecently with attract more attention than one wearing hijab, therefore the former is more prone to assault. the sin of rape is on the rapist, but i think the victim if she was dressed indecently was not taking precautions to prevent the crime. its like locking your front door to keep away burglars, you can leave your home wide open and it could get robbed. the sin of robbery is not yours, but you could have done something to prevent it.
a woman dressed indecently with attract more attention than one wearing hijab, therefore the former is more prone to assault. the sin of rape is on the rapist, but i think the victim if she was dressed indecently was not taking precautions to prevent the crime. its like locking your front door to keep away burglars, you can leave your home wide open and it could get robbed. the sin of robbery is not yours, but you could have done something to prevent it.
To use your analogy, houses are robbed regardless of how well they are locked. If someone is deadset on robbing your house, it doesn't matter what the precautions are.
You know, one of the biggest problems in the ummah today, and possibly its greatest failing is the way that we try and work out the logic of God's commandments. Now our Rasool filled in some gaps when the people really needed help to understand. But he probably left more questions unanswered than he actually explained. Why is this? Because our faith is meant to be fairly and squarely in the doing of GOd's will, not trying to understand it.
And yet, pretty much everywhere, we have people trying to do just this. Why, only a day or so ago, on this forum, people were trying to explain that pork is haram because it is unhealthy or that studies show this or that; it's not. It is haram because God said it was - period. We have people trying to say that hijaab is a defence against rape. It is not. And I'd suggest not bringing this line up at the Moslem Women's refuge network that my family run.
The point is, God told women to wear hijaab. And for sure it IS a protection against a great many things in a social and spiritual context. But when we start trying to fill in the gaps and make silly claims like it stops men getting ideas of lust, there is some truth to that, but that is not to say it stops a man who is capable of rape raping. It doesn't. In fact, some men see raping hijaabi's as a bit of a kick - again, I'm not going to go into this but I know of what I speak.
I do doubt that THIS thing happens so much in countries where the hijaab and the abaya are much more (though I acknowlege rape does happen - and just because it's largely confined to the Russian prostitute population doesn't make it any better) and therein lies an important point. In a western context, most girls walking around without hijaab don't stick out at all. There is anonymity. But stick on the hijaab and Western men AND women will have a look. Most of them are like - what's under there I wonder? But there are some far more sinister types.
Let me give you another angle to this... some of the women I know of who have experienced the life-changing tragedy that is rape, and who DID wear the veil/abaya are affected in another way. They start believing that they must be evil in another way - after all women who wear hijaab DON'T get raped do they? This gets pretty self-destructive. Mash'Allah, if you knew some of the stories...
Allah swt told women to cover. Some extent of the reasoning was made by the Rasool pbuh. Enough. Do it - because God said so. And certainly don't wear it cos it makes you safe from rape. It doesn't.
ANd whilst I am typing, there is no absolution from rape for a man whatever the women is wearing. If she says no, it's a NO. I would personally stoke the very fires of hell to burn the brothers who feel there is any justification to this heinous crime. And if you knew what I knew, you'd be in line and shovel in hand too.
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
a woman dressed indecently with attract more attention than one wearing hijab, therefore the former is more prone to assault. the sin of rape is on the rapist, but i think the victim if she was dressed indecently was not taking precautions to prevent the crime. its like locking your front door to keep away burglars, you can leave your home wide open and it could get robbed. the sin of robbery is not yours, but you could have done something to prevent it.
That's still specious, because a veil is not a lock.
It's like claiming that having a sign on the door to the women's room prevents rapists from entering. It doesn't protect women, it just gives the illusion.
A veil is not a lock, it's a sign. Stranger-rapists attack very elderly women, unattractive women and children too; I also remind you that, as was pointed out above, most rape does not happen at the hands of a stranger, but rather at the hands of a person the woman trusts - family member etc.
Hijab is not relevant to this situation except, apparently, to say that those who don't wear it deserve what happens.
Is your religion real when it costs you nothing and carries no risk? Is your religion real when you fatten upon it? Is your religion real when you commit atrocities in its name? Whence comes your downward degeneration from the original revelation?
That's still specious, because a veil is not a lock.
It's like claiming that having a sign on the door to the women's room prevents rapists from entering. It doesn't protect women, it just gives the illusion.
A veil is not a lock, it's a sign. Stranger-rapists attack very elderly women, unattractive women and children too; I also remind you that, as was pointed out above, most rape does not happen at the hands of a stranger, but rather at the hands of a person the woman trusts - family member etc.
Hijab is not relevant to this situation except, apparently, to say that those who don't wear it deserve what happens.
but the vast majority of rapes are not stranger rapes are they?
statistics show that ONE IN FOUR women will suffer a rape or attempted rape in their lifetime and most of these are from men they know, not strangers.
now if a woman wears hijab she is saying NO ENTRY to all except her husband, it is that simple.
Last edited by MinAhlilHadeeth; 06-07-2007 at 02:26 PM.
Reason: edit
Is your religion real when it costs you nothing and carries no risk? Is your religion real when you fatten upon it? Is your religion real when you commit atrocities in its name? Whence comes your downward degeneration from the original revelation?
To use your analogy, houses are robbed regardless of how well they are locked. If someone is deadset on robbing your house, it doesn't matter what the precautions are.
You know, one of the biggest problems in the ummah today, and possibly its greatest failing is the way that we try and work out the logic of God's commandments. Now our Rasool filled in some gaps when the people really needed help to understand. But he probably left more questions unanswered than he actually explained. Why is this? Because our faith is meant to be fairly and squarely in the doing of GOd's will, not trying to understand it.
And yet, pretty much everywhere, we have people trying to do just this. Why, only a day or so ago, on this forum, people were trying to explain that pork is haram because it is unhealthy or that studies show this or that; it's not. It is haram because God said it was - period. We have people trying to say that hijaab is a defence against rape. It is not. And I'd suggest not bringing this line up at the Moslem Women's refuge network that my family run.
The point is, God told women to wear hijaab. And for sure it IS a protection against a great many things in a social and spiritual context. But when we start trying to fill in the gaps and make silly claims like it stops men getting ideas of lust, there is some truth to that, but that is not to say it stops a man who is capable of rape raping. It doesn't. In fact, some men see raping hijaabi's as a bit of a kick - again, I'm not going to go into this but I know of what I speak.
I do doubt that THIS thing happens so much in countries where the hijaab and the abaya are much more (though I acknowlege rape does happen - and just because it's largely confined to the Russian prostitute population doesn't make it any better) and therein lies an important point. In a western context, most girls walking around without hijaab don't stick out at all. There is anonymity. But stick on the hijaab and Western men AND women will have a look. Most of them are like - what's under there I wonder? But there are some far more sinister types.
Let me give you another angle to this... some of the women I know of who have experienced the life-changing tragedy that is rape, and who DID wear the veil/abaya are affected in another way. They start believing that they must be evil in another way - after all women who wear hijaab DON'T get raped do they? This gets pretty self-destructive. Mash'Allah, if you knew some of the stories...
Allah swt told women to cover. Some extent of the reasoning was made by the Rasool pbuh. Enough. Do it - because God said so. And certainly don't wear it cos it makes you safe from rape. It doesn't.
ANd whilst I am typing, there is no absolution from rape for a man whatever the women is wearing. If she says no, it's a NO. I would personally stoke the very fires of hell to burn the brothers who feel there is any justification to this heinous crime. And if you knew what I knew, you'd be in line and shovel in hand too.
it is good to hear of your work to help victims of rape. however, you are definitely not the only one on this forum doing social work..i'm sure most of us have heard horror stories too, first hand..
the reason i love Islam so much is because it makes so much sense. Yes, we follow the rules because God asked us to, but these rules have reasons behind them.
We dont eat pork because God made it haram. “O ye who believe! Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you, and render thanks to Allah if it is (indeed) He whom ye worship” (2:172).
This indicates that the flesh of the pig is not a 'good thing' as it is forbidden by Allah. Allah would never forbid something that would be good for us.
forgive me if i'm wrong
salams
it is good to hear of your work to help victims of rape. however, you are definitely not the only one on this forum doing social work..i'm sure most of us have heard horror stories too, first hand..
the reason i love Islam so much is because it makes so much sense. Yes, we follow the rules because God asked us to, but these rules have reasons behind them.
We dont eat pork because God made it haram. “O ye who believe! Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you, and render thanks to Allah if it is (indeed) He whom ye worship” (2:172).
This indicates that the flesh of the pig is not a 'good thing' as it is forbidden by Allah. Allah would never forbid something that would be good for us.
forgive me if i'm wrong
salams
I don't think you're wrong - we're not disgreeing. Yet you have to understand that not everything in Islam 'makes sense'. It may feel like it is something we can truly comprehend, but that may or may not be true. The reasons behind the rules are really only known by the Creator himself. ANd if He created something good, it is for our good that He did so - so no, clearly He would not forbid anything bad.... not sure what point you were making but it doesn't really affect the one I was making.
The point is, it is not for us to second-guess the reasons why things are haram and halal. We just do it.
And back to the topic, nowhere was it ever said that hijaab protects against rape.
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
And back to the topic, nowhere was it ever said that hijaab protects against rape.
how you doing akhi?
I dunno, i think hijab does help, it reduces chances of potential rape imho
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
Alhamdulilah brother. Doing good thanks for asking! And how's life in Cardiff (if that is not too much of an oxymoron!)?
There may well be an argument that it REDUCES the chance of rape, but there is no religious argument for that.
Hello dishdash it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to engage in an argument with another member in any one of our forums?
i agree with what you said..we follow the commands of Allah because he asked us to..however..a lot of these rules do have reasons behind them..or else Islamic way of life would just be a bunch of rules- do this, do that, dont ask why, you dont need to understand the reason behind it
our understanding of these rules also helps scholars form fatwas in the modern world.
nowhere was it said that hijaab protects you from rape, however hijaab does preserve a womans modesty. i have lived in two countries so far (Sri Lanka and Pakistan), in both, men dont give you a second glance in you're in abaya, where as if you were in a tight skirt..well..you know..
indecent clothing attracts attention..yeah..if someone really wanted to victimise a woman, there's isnt much you could do to stop him, but why would a man want to rape a woman totally covered up and looks just like the next lady in hijab
Alhamdulilah brother. Doing good thanks for asking! And how's life in Cardiff (if that is not too much of an oxymoron!)?
There may well be an argument that it REDUCES the chance of rape, but there is no religious argument for that.
whats an oxymoron?
Anyway, i agree with you the commands of Allah are down to his divine wisdom, and we may not understand it fully. But usually there is evident wisdom shown.
And also, it actually says in the Qur'an, Allah instructs women to cover to prevent molestation. So it does stop rape, because thats the reaosn allah ordained it
"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 33:59]
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
i think an oxymoron is a statement where consecutive words contradict..
what brother moss is saying is exactly my point...sorry..i beat around the bush alot i guess
i think an oxymoron is a statement where consecutive words contradict..
He said
Doing good thanks for asking! And how's life in Cardiff (if that is not too much of an oxymoron!)?
I dont see how that has contradicting words. anyways back on topic, even if hijaab had no good effect, it wouldn't matter as thats is what allah has ordained
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Array
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks