Polygyny Advice Needed

**tigersabre** · 11-26-2007

As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,

Alhamdullillaah, I've been blessed with the opportunity of being able to seek a second wife, and while I'm searching, I'm also preparing myself for that journey.

I'm looking to speak to 3 brothers who are already involved in "successful" polygynous relationships to seek advice from them. Since I've already been married, I know that marriage is huge responsibility, and it doubles and becomes more difficult as more spouses are added.

I understand that managing time, finances, and jealousies are some of the challenges, but I'm looking to learn more, as there is always more, I believe, than others see or say. For example, I was informed that the children also miss their fathers a lot and this is more difficult for mothers than even sharing.

If anyone knows a brother who has been successful in this type of relationship and would not mind me contacting them and asking advice privately (if they don't wish to do so publically), please send me a private message and let me know further details.

Jazakallaah khayr in advance!

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by snakelegs

i too, am wondering how does your wife feel about #2?
also, are you sure you can provide for 2 families and give of yourself equally?
(i can't imagine why anyone would want to take on that much responsibility)

The promise of Allah subhaana wa ta'aala in the Qur'aan is that He will provide when you are married, and that has been my experience. When one places their tawakkul in Allah subhaana wa ta'aala and ties their camel by putting forth their best effort, things have a way of working out.

When I first got married, I told my wife I had no job at the time, but she was keen on protecting herself and said she wished to marry anyway, so we both placed our trust in Allah subhaana wa ta'aala, our families agreed, and we went from there.

Our first 3 months of marriage, we lived off of wedding money ($4000), and we had a very smalling nikaah and we didn't say anything like "No Boxed Gifts" or something like that. When we got to the last $1000, I received a job as a researcher assistant in the computer science department, and that went on for 7 months. During that time, my wife became pregnant and during the last trimester, I applied for and got a job at Motorola as a software engineer, and I still work there now, alhamdullillaah.

I spoke with one of my Islamic studies teacher about the same question you asked when discussing the prospect of a second wife as he had done the same, and he was like me, with very little money, although he's an Imam in Seattle (graduated from the college of shari'ah in madeenah university). He said that when he married again, the resources came in, he just came his tawakkul in Allah subhaana wa ta'aala.

Another of my teachers told me the same - create a gameplan, and go from there. Start searching now, work your plan, and leave the rest to Allah subhaana wa ta'aala, so that's where I'm at right now.

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by syilla

Try reading this book akhee...

386072486 fd8ce252b1 1 - Polygyny Advice Needed

386072492 f98168aee5 1 - Polygyny Advice Needed

source

http://polygynousblessings.blogspot.com/

My wife is actually doing a lot of research herself, looking to see how other women have experienced polygyny. Her experience is not completely analogous because i didn't bring it upon her as normally happens to first wives.

We actually have one book, Polygyny: A Way Through, from Darussalam which was written by two sisters - it's very well researched and very well written. I read it myself to try to gain a better understanding as well.

Of course, we also have the classic Bilal Philips book as well on the topic, and that's an interesting read as well, but that is more on the theoretical side of things rather than the practical, as was covered in the book written by the two sisters.

Jazakallaah khayr for the link - I'll check it out and maybe send it to my wife as well, insha'Allah.

**niler** · 11-27-2007

ol d best bro but hope u tel her abot it. it really feels bad to know that someone u trust doesnt include u in such a major decision.

**niler** · 11-27-2007

ok i hadnot read everything wen i posted.so it doesnt count..

thats really nice. u have the ryt reasons 4 maryying . may Allah give u wat is good in this world n the next.. n give u pios children..

**AnonymousPoster** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by Malaikah

Personally I don't think it is our business to interfere with the brother, if his first wife is cool with it all. It is his business, not ours.

About polygamy being illegal in the US-does this only cover marriages that are official according to US law? The brother will be married to the second Islamicly, not 'legally'. Is that illegal?

I don't see how they can stop that. I mean, if people are allowed to run around sleeping with as many people as they like in one night- how can they stop someone from living honourably with a second wife- who is not even considered a wife by US law, but is by Islamic law?

but if they marry according to islamic law and not US law she would be legally deprived of the benefits of marriage provided to the first wife as a matter of law... inheritance, tax benefits, recognition of their children et c. and isn't polygamy only allowed in islamic law when the husband can treat each woman exactly fairly?

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by AnonymousGender

but if they marry according to islamic law and not US law she would be legally deprived of the benefits of marriage provided to the first wife as a matter of law... inheritance, tax benefits, recognition of their children et c. and isn't polygamy only allowed in islamic law when the husband can treat each woman exactly fairly?

Salaam alaykum,

All of the above you mentioned are what the US government gives an individual with a recognized marriage. I'm not responsible for that. The US government is.

I'm responsible for what is in my possession to give (my income, and my personal time). I'm not responsible for tax benefits.

Further, our religion has a pre-determined inheritance distribution for wives, regardless of secular legal status, and that is what is upheld, insha'Allah

As for children, the children can take on the name of their father, and simply because we're not married, does not mean they cannot have any status related to me, especially if I am financially supporting them.

**UmmSqueakster** · 11-27-2007

Your wife may find this yahoo group to be a good resource.

One thing to me that seems to kill any thought of polygany in the US is health insurance and work benefits. You can only have one wife as a beneficiary. That means all subsequent wives won't have the same access to health care as the first wife. Major inequality, which is a major no no when it comes to polygany. Giving birth is expensive. If wives #2, 3 and 4 don't have health insurance, who is going to pay for it, the government? That seems scuzzy to me.

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by Janaan

Your wife may find this yahoo group to be a good resource.

One thing to me that seems to kill any thought of polygany in the US is health insurance and work benefits. You can only have one wife as a beneficiary. That means all subsequent wives won't have the same access to health care as the first wife. Major inequality, which is a major no no when it comes to polygany. Giving birth is expensive. If wives #2, 3 and 4 don't have health insurance, who is going to pay for it, the government? That seems scuzzy to me.

Actually, the one who pays for health insurance regardless is the husband. I pay for it for my first wife and kids right now at a through work. One simply needs to provide the same coverage for their 2nd wife OR be able to provide medical care when the time comes, either one. The goal is not the money spent on health care - the goal is the health care. So long as its available, that's all you need.

Besides all that, one thing a lot of people don't realize is that if wife #2 doesn't work, theoretically, she has no income, but she's continuing to have kids. As a result, she may be entitled to other benefits.

**chosen** · 11-27-2007

so "marry" other women then have the welfare system provide for them..so you dont have to..interesting..and by the way really low..

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by chosen

so "marry" other women then have the welfare system provide for them..so you dont have to..interesting..and by the way really low..

Actually, I'm required to pay from my own income exactly what I give to one wife to another, so the government would not supplement anything that I'm responsible for.

What could happen, however, is that the tax benefits that wife #1 gets from the government could be taken in the form of benefits derived in other directions. So what I'm talking about here is not money that I'm already paying for equally for both (or all) wives - I'm talking about having the government cover what they would cover, but from a different angle.

From the perspective of Islamic law, the money she receives would be her own, and would no way lessen what I am required to provide for her.

Hope that clarifies it.

**Grace Seeker** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by chosen

so "marry" other women then have the welfare system provide for them..so you dont have to..interesting..and by the way really low..

I don't think that is "low". The system was designed with a particular family structure in mind. I may be of a religious persuasion to agree with that concept, but I don't know that I am of a legal inclination to say that others have to construct their families using the way I would build mine as a model.

Originally Posted by tigersabre

I want a second (and third, and fourth) wife because:

1. I work in daw'ah, and my goal is to influence enough people to realize that the purpose of their life is worshipping Allah subhaana wa ta'aala, and to better live their lives according to how He wishes us to. Daw'ah, however, starts at home, and the first group of people to influence is one's children. My current wife and I plan on having as many children as possible, but in a rational manner (spaced out every 2.5 years, so that the children can complete the course of nursing and the mother can get a break as well).

Along with that, we both see that the best thing we can do for this Ummah is bring in more practicing, righteous children into the world (or, at least try to train up as many as possible), and having more wives is a natural extension of this

2. I prayed istikhaara regarding having more wives, and it came out very positively, in the manner I asked. Consequently, what is best for my deen in this life and the Hereafter is this.

3. Man was created to be polygynous - it's in our natures, so naturally, I have a physiological inclination towards it. It's the propaganda machine of Iblis and his cronies that tries to condition our minds into practices that are twisted and corrupted, and away from our natural disposition.

Finally, it's nothing wrong with my wife. Actually, our lives are very happy, seeking the pleasure of Allah subhaana wa ta'aala. We're just want to expand the happiness

Tigersabre, personally I disagree with your position in point #3, but that it really irrelevant to the questions you are asking. It seems that you do have a good understanding of the legal statutes where you will be living and how these would effect each of the respective members of your family. And it seems that you understand the financial implications of those issues as well. Based on other information you have shared, I don't think that you are likely to be taking advantage of one woman at another's expense nor likely to abandon your children. I trust that any future wife would be made just as aware of as your are regarding the risks that she is taking and the way that the legal system would and would not protect her rights and their limitations. So, I shall put all those objections aside, and focus on one other thing that you mentioned which you may want to consider.

One of the things that you said was behind your desire to take a second wife was

My current wife and I plan on having as many children as possible, but in a rational manner (spaced out every 2.5 years, so that the children can complete the course of nursing and the mother can get a break as well).

Along with that, we both see that the best thing we can do for this Ummah is bring in more practicing, righteous children into the world (or, at least try to train up as many as possible), and having more wives is a natural extension of this.

As a fellow resident of Illinois, may I suggest to you that there is another way that you can accomplish the portion of your goals that I have highlighted. There is a great need for both foster parents and adoptive parents. I have done this for close to the very reasons you have given, and found it incredibly rewarding. I'm not really happy with myself for suggesting a way that you might train people up in the Ummah rather than in Christ, but to give honest advice I need to tell you that this is something you might wish to consider. In this way you would have as many children as you and your present wife could possible handle -- we stopped at 8, I know some that have many more -- and be able to provide legal protection to them all. One would even receive assistance from the government. (Not that I suggest that as a reason for doing it, but it does make it easier to provide care to more children than one might be otherwise able to.) Many of these are now adults on their own, but we are still mom and dad to all those who have chosen to remain in contact with us.

There are some other issues to deal with, and I would be happy to discuss those with you if you are interested. But I can assure you that the need is continuing and very great. So, it might be something to consider. And it would be away to accomplish this aspect of your life goals that does not include a 2nd marriage (be it Islamic or otherwise).

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I don't think that is "low". The system was designed with a particular family structure in mind. I may be of a religious persuasion to agree with that concept, but I don't know that I am of a legal inclination to say that others have to construct their families using the way I would build mine as a model.

Tigersabre, personally I disagree with your position in point #3, but that it really irrelevant to the questions you are asking. It seems that you do have a good understanding of the legal statutes where you will be living and how these would effect each of the respective members of your family. And it seems that you understand the financial implications of those issues as well. Based on other information you have shared, I don't think that you are likely to be taking advantage of one woman at another's expense nor likely to abandon your children. I trust that any future wife would be made just as aware of as your are regarding the risks that she is taking and the way that the legal system would and would not protect her rights and their limitations. So, I shall put all those objections aside, and focus on one other thing that you mentioned which you may want to consider.

One of the things that you said was behind your desire to take a second wife was

As a fellow resident of Illinois, may I suggest to you that there is another way that you can accomplish the portion of your goals that I have highlighted. There is a great need for both foster parents and adoptive parents. I have done this for close to the very reasons you have given, and found it incredibly rewarding. I'm not really happy with myself for suggesting a way that you might train people up in the Ummah rather than in Christ, but to give honest advice I need to tell you that this is something you might wish to consider. In this way you would have as many children as you and your present wife could possible handle -- we stopped at 8, I know some that have many more -- and be able to provide legal protection to them all. One would even receive assistance from the government. (Not that I suggest that as a reason for doing it, but it does make it easier to provide care to more children than one might be otherwise able to.) Many of these are now adults on their own, but we are still mom and dad to all those who have chosen to remain in contact with us.

There are some other issues to deal with, and I would be happy to discuss those with you if you are interested. But I can assure you that the need is continuing and very great. So, it might be something to consider. And it would be away to accomplish this aspect of your life goals that does not include a 2nd marriage (be it Islamic or otherwise).

hey grace seeker,

I appreciate the advice and insights you're offering in this. There are actually multiple goals / needs being fulfilled as a result of this, the aspect of children being perhaps the most major, but not the only one.

Another aspect of this is the shortage of practicing Muslim men. By practicing I mean that they truly have a connection with God and do their best to prioritize the commandment of God in our scripture the Qur'aan, and through his prophet in the ahadeeth.

Yet another issue we have in our Muslim communities is the prevalence of an idea that women who are divorced are in fact "tainted goods." This returns back to a general double standard in many societies and cultures that men who sleep around are "studs" whereas women who do are, well, many words that I'd prefer not to repeat.

In the example we have from our Prophet (peace be upon him) and the men around him, the companions, if any women were divorced, there was always another man ready to propose, and she would not have to worry about her provision and how she would take care of herself. today, due to many of the cultural influences within our muslim societies, this is no longer the case.

I don't like to mention it because I don't want to seem as though I'm doing this out of community service for these women - they may feel as though I'm throwing charity at someone poor, which is not the case, from my perspective.

As for adopting children, my wife and I discussed this as well, and it's our plan that once my wife can no longer have biological children, we will begin adopting children as well at an age which will allow her to continue nursing the children (my wife trained with la leche league for lactation consultant training, so she knows how to do all this), and the reason for this is because in Islamic law, there is no such thing as adoption - once the child hits puberty, one "parent" or another deal with the child as though they are a parent, in the sense of their being parental rights or parental style relationships.

However, if the child is breastfed by the mother a certain number of feedings early on when still within the first two years of life, then the child becomes a foster child of the mother, a brother or sister to all the woman's biological children, and a foster child of the father who caused the woman's milk to flow.

So we plan on doing this once my wife's ability to have children has concluded. I know that there are many children in need of families right now, but we'd first like to bring our own into this world, and knowing what my wife can and can't handle, we're pacing ourselves at 2.5 years per child (give or take a few months) in order to bring as many children as possible while allowing my wife some breathing room

As for point #3, my belief in it is a natural extension of my faith in God, and how I believe His legislation and the roles we as men and women are given are in harmony, such that we complete one another rather than compete with one another. There are numerous scientific studies that say things such as, "Men are built to be adulterous, not monogamous", going on to explain that men are genetically designed to "spread their seed" as was said in one report. I don't really require the scientific studies to believe in it, but since I know you don't take the Qur'aan and what is said in Islam as an authority, I thought I might mention sources that might be lessed biased regarding polygyny than I am in this regard.

Thanks again for your advice, it's greatly appreciated!

**chosen** · 11-27-2007

well lets face it..not everyone in this kind of relationship thinks it is good..some people have had very very bad experiences..evil even..I dont believe in this kind of marriage, however I dont have to agree with it..only the adult consenting parties need to agree to it..

**tigersabre** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by chosen

well lets face it..not everyone in this kind of relationship thinks it is good..some people have had very very bad experiences..evil even..I dont believe in this kind of marriage, however I dont have to agree with it..only the adult consenting parties need to agree to it..

Yeah, the Warren Jeffs thing still sits badly in a lot of people's minds. Islamic Law doesn't allow any woman to be married against her will. There are, however, a lot of good experiences as well

One common plus point cited by women is that they have more free time to themselves on their "off" days, and that their relationships are stronger (maybe because they spend less time?).

But it's definitely no walk in the park, and I think what many people automatically imagine in their minds is that polygyny in Islam is some kind of hedonistic male chauvinist fantasia, which it really is not. Its a heavier responsibility, and it adds a greater chance that one could potentially have a difficult reckoning on the Day of Judgement should it that the husband was unjust to one over another (or others) with regards to time and money.

**chosen** · 11-27-2007

warren jeffs is a pig..these were not adult consenting parties..he was marrying children off to each other 13 and 14 year old girls AGAINST THERE WILL..

**Grace Seeker** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by chosen

warren jeffs is a pig..these were not adult consenting parties..he was marrying children off to each other 13 and 14 year old girls AGAINST THERE WILL..

Right!! But as that is not what Tigersabre is talking about, let's not confuse the points with that side issue.

**chosen** · 11-27-2007

This is america and we have freedom of religion here...so as long as all parties are truley consenting and they have not been forced in anyway...and provided that all parties are legal adults I dont care how many wives a man has..My problem is with the comment that "the system" will take care of them...IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU HAVE ONE WIFE OR Twelve...you shouldnt get married unless you can take care of your wife(s) and children...sorry but I work too hard and have too much money taken out of my pay for this type of crappola already..please do not advertise it as a way to live.....again take 15 wives I dont care..just find a way to support them yourself..

**Malaikah** · 11-27-2007

Originally Posted by chosen

My problem is with the comment that "the system" will take care of them...IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU HAVE ONE WIFE OR Twelve...you shouldnt get married unless you can take care of your wife(s) and children...sorry but I work too hard and have too much money taken out of my pay for this type of crappola already..please do not advertise it as a way to live.....again take 15 wives I dont care..just find a way to support them yourself..

He never said he was going to let the system support them- you are twisting his words.

**جوري** · 11-28-2007

this guy is here to exercise his anger not to offer advise.

As a woman I'd never agree to share my husband with another, but I don't disagree with God's law, understanding the nature of men, and what is actually going on in society.
There a levels of piety and the psychology of a person plays a part in that.
Someone might not want to share her husband but she isn't just a Muslimas, she is not just a mo'mena, she is not just a mo7sina, she is a mokhlisa and feels she can withstand and be ok with this for the sake of Allah.. another woman might ask for a divorce and it is also her God given right...

what I don't understand is people imposing their opinion on other parties like they are so civilized.. so civilized but can't reconcile why 50% of men will cheat on their wives.. so civilized they'd rather bury poor helpless, widowed, divorced, orphaned women, in some outskirt on the wrong side of the track, rather than realize they have a duty toward them, a duty to put food and a safe roof over their head so they are not prostituting themselves to put food on the table...

Understand the human condition, hierarchy of people within that system.. human psychology before you pass out comments on people being low lives or pigs or whatever.. or just take it to another forum with like minds, because frankly no one is interested in the $*** you spew!
and go read your bible tell us what a pig, Abraham, Solomon, David, Job and the rest were for taking in more than one wife before writing here!

**tigersabre** · 11-28-2007

Originally Posted by chosen

This is america and we have freedom of religion here...so as long as all parties are truley consenting and they have not been forced in anyway...and provided that all parties are legal adults I dont care how many wives a man has..My problem is with the comment that "the system" will take care of them...IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU HAVE ONE WIFE OR Twelve...you shouldnt get married unless you can take care of your wife(s) and children...sorry but I work too hard and have too much money taken out of my pay for this type of crappola already..please do not advertise it as a way to live.....again take 15 wives I dont care..just find a way to support them yourself..

Hey Chosen,

I agree with you, actually. I'm a fiscal conservative myself, and I believe that people should pay for themselves as well. I think your reaction to my statement, however, is due to the typical case the occurs on the welfare system - people who keep having babies and have no intent of getting work and giving back - they plan on simply taking at the expense of your tax dollars and mine.

My case is specific. I am a working professional in the IT field (currently a software engineer), and I myself contribute to the system. So, in essence, I'll be taking back what I myself have put in, if I were to go that route. Of course, I believe in zero taxes, or close to it, and had the federal government not been taxing me, I'd probably be able to support a second family a lot easier

However, I'm not depending on the federal government - as part of my plan to support my family, I'm moving into SAP BI / BW, which pays $70 starting and then goes up from there with experience. My training for that will finish in about 3 months, and then I'll start applying for new jobs from there. And, you can imagine with the Democrats coming into the white house, I'll probably end up paying more taxes as a result.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!