Western perception of niqaab

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I came across this newspaper column about how niqaab may be perceived by Westeners. (It is an opinion piece, so it really doesn't do any more than reflect the authors opinion)

I know that this kind of topic quickly leads to strong reaction - but I hope this article won't!
Personally, I think it raises some interesting points.

I would like to ask if you can understand concerns and even 'fears' from Westerners about niqaab (as outlined in the article), and what you think about the notion of adjusting to Western cultural values?

Funny to return from Lebanon, Syria and Turkey - where women go unveiled - and return to Britain, the land of the full hijab. I see more women with their faces covered in Tower Hamlets than I did in Damascus.

I used to think that covering the whole face except for the eyes was the normal Islamic custom (in a week in Afghanistan I hardly saw a woman's face) and so was surprised to find that even in Syria, the most culturally conservative of the Middle Eastern countries I've just visited, not a tenth of the women seem to cover their faces. Most (by no means all) cover their heads, but you don't get that closed, turning-away feeling you sense along the Whitechapel Road in the East End of London. In the Damascus streets, women in all-women groups, and women with men, chat and laugh; and I saw to be true (what some Muslims have already told me) that the full hijab cannot be considered a religious duty, but is simply a cultural feature of some societies that are Muslim, but not others.

If so, how far should we tolerate it? Spitting is a cultural feature in China but we discourage it here. In Syria I took my shoes off to enter mosques, though that is not in my culture; and wouldn't have worn clothing like skimpy shorts or vests, or drunk alcohol in the streets: practices offensive not to me but to the mainstream culture where I was.

Knowingly to disturb people's feelings is to be offensive. In Western European society, to go out in public with your face masked is (unless done for comic effect) disturbing. Hiding the face is felt to be threatening, and slightly scary, and subliminally this goes way back, and quite deep I think: it certainly frightens children.

Would it be wrong to try to convey to communities in Britain who adopt the full hijab that, though it is a woman's legal right to dress as she chooses, she should recognise that she's in a country where many people will find a masked face disturbing, and that (without meaning to) she is acting in a culturally inappropriate manner, which may offend? Do the masked women I see in the street in Whitechapel actually know this? I cannot say, because I've never spoken to them: or, rather, when I do, they look away and walk away.

This too, in Britain, is rude. Do they know? Shouldn't they?
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article6374844.ece

Salaam :)
 
Spitting is a cultural feature in China but we discourage it here. In Syria I took my shoes off to enter mosques, though that is not in my culture; and wouldn't have worn clothing like skimpy shorts or vests, or drunk alcohol in the streets: practices offensive not to me but to the mainstream culture where I was.
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Seriously, how can the author compare such acts like spitting and drinking with the Niqab?

But on the other hand I agree with the author that any woman who wants to wear a Niqab, and is most commited to Islam should think of living in an Islamic country first.
But then the author should also admit that britain or the west in general is after all no different when it comes to freedom and tolerance.
 
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...and I saw to be true (what some Muslims have already told me) that the full hijab cannot be considered a religious duty, but is simply a cultural feature of some societies that are Muslim, but not others.
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I'm aware that many do wear it for cultural reason in Muslim countries, but that does not mean it's not a religious duty. People can misinterpret things to their desires, but it's still part of our religion.

Hiding the face is felt to be threatening, and slightly scary, and subliminally this goes way back, and quite deep I think: it certainly frightens children.
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I disagree with that. Yes, if you raise your children to be scared of niqaabis, then like heck they're gonna be frightened! But, I've witnessed many children who look at me with curiosity and smiles. Some even whisper to their mother "mommy, look...Mary!" And that's kinda trippy, given that Maryam (Alayha Salaam) isn't depicted according to the Christians with a covered face...but still it's cute. I've also overheard many children ask their parents "why is that lady covered", and heard their parents give good replies. So, point is, no not all children are scared. Children are naturally open minded and curious, it's up to the adults in their lives to encourage that or not.

Do the masked women I see in the street in Whitechapel actually know this? I cannot say, because I've never spoken to them: or, rather, when I do, they look away and walk away.
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When she spoke to them they looked away and walked away? :? That sounds odd to me. Speaking for myself, I would never walk away when somebody initiates a conversation with me, unless they decide to preach their views to me as though I'm ignorant and oppressed, in which case I would cordially end the conversation and walk away.

But on the other hand I agree with the author that any woman who wants to wear a Niqab, and is most commited to Islam should think of living in an Islamic country first.
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I'd do that gladly, when it becomes possible for me. I think many would like to move, but it's not easy to pack up and leave now, is it? :)
 
No that is not true spitting is not allowed in China and so is litering and if you do so you get a fine for at least 500£.
 
It's because westerners are ignorant to the Islamic culture and either 1. associate any covering of the face with crime and terrorism, or 2. are scared of anything that is different to them.

There was an arguement somewhere about banning the niqab because someone may wear one, go to a store and shoplift, and not get caught because their faces were never shown. (They don't have to necessarily be a muslim to do so, but no one would say anything if they were wearing one, so it would make it easier.)

After seeing the niqab, I see the hijab as very light in 'modesty'. I have a sudden reaction to greet them with Assalamu Aleikum! but refrain. :D

However, out of the many people who don't have that much insight into it, it is reasonable that there is a certain reaction of fear.

And- to the person about the spitting and alcohol: That was the point of the article. In some cultures, that is not as dirty as the way you perceive it, so whether it is comparable to the situation of the niqab or not, will differ with every person. Which, I think, is. It's not like you're putting them on the same level of honour, but the reactions they get in culture to culture are very similar. Some, in disgust, and some it is normal.

Muslims are increasing in number in the west, so it's inevitable that more awareness of Islam will spread even though there is a widespread islamophobia. Just, at least I have faith that truth will out- and seeing munaqqabāt will be like seeing a nun, a peaceful reaction with the connotation of someone that is just following their religion.
 
GreyKode said:
Seriously, how can the author compare such acts like spitting and drinking with the Niqab?
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I think the comparison is only made in the sense of what is a cultural norm and culturally accepted, and what isn't.
 
Jawharah said:
I disagree with that. Yes, if you raise your children to be scared of niqaabis, then like heck they're gonna be frightened!
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I think the argument made is not that Western children are taught be be frightened of niqaab ... but that they are instinctively wary of people who hide their face behind a mask.
But, I've witnessed many children who look at me with curiosity and smiles. Some even whisper to their mother "mommy, look...Mary!" And that's kinda trippy, given that Maryam (Alayha Salaam) isn't depicted according to the Christians with a covered face...but still it's cute.
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When you wear niqaab? That's curious indeed. :)

When she spoke to them they looked away and walked away? :? That sounds odd to me. Speaking for myself, I would never walk away when somebody initiates a conversation with me, unless they decide to preach their views to me as though I'm ignorant and oppressed, in which case I would cordially end the conversation and walk away.
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I believe the author of the article is male ...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Jawharah

Peace :)
 
Podarok said:
After seeing the niqab, I see the hijab as very light in 'modesty'. I have a sudden reaction to greet them with Assalamu Aleikum! but refrain. :D
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Interesting you say that, Podarok. It's a point I made in another thread on this topic.

What stops you from greeting a niqaabi? Is there something about her dress, which makes you feel that she may be a private person and may not wish to be approached?
Can you try to explain a bit more why you refrain from speaking to her?

Peace :)
 
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I think the argument made is not that Western children are taught be be frightened of niqaab ... but that they are instinctively wary of people who hide their face behind a mask.
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I understand the argument being made, but I don't believe it's necessary accurate, and I say that based on my own interactions. But then, things most probably are different out here where I'm at as opposed to Europe. I'm aware that American children are different.

When you wear niqaab? That's curious indeed. :)
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Yes. I wear my niqaab always when I'm out. :)

I believe the author of the article is male ...
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Ah, I notice that now. In that case, I think it's based on the manner in which he asked his questions, and I think it would be more acceptable if the questions are asked while a male related to her is present. I wouldn't talk to a random guy who walked up to me, even if I were only wearing hijaab. That said, I have answered questions guys have had for me. :)
 
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Well, perhaps we should declare a 'Talk to a niqaabi week', and everybody can share their experiences. :)
 
The problem is, when can following customs be considered "too much"? What is the minimum amount of conformity acceptable?

"In Western European society, to go out in public with your face masked is (unless done for comic effect) disturbing. Hiding the face is felt to be threatening, and slightly scary, and subliminally this goes way back, and quite deep I think: it certainly frightens children."

Goths can be considered frightening and disturbing, with their dark make up, piercings, strange hair and clothes. So can satanists. So can she-males. Many people find the appearance of these people offensive and disturbing- are they facing the same issues women in niqaab are?
 
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crayon said:
The problem is, when can following customs be considered "too much"? What is the minimum amount of conformity acceptable?

"In Western European society, to go out in public with your face masked is (unless done for comic effect) disturbing. Hiding the face is felt to be threatening, and slightly scary, and subliminally this goes way back, and quite deep I think: it certainly frightens children."

Goths can be considered frightening and disturbing, with their dark make up, piercings, strange hair and clothes. So can satanists. So can she-males. Many people find the appearance of these people offensive and disturbing- are they facing the same issues women in niqaab are?
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Good point sis!

What about gangs eh, how many articles do you see on those. People think it's cool to have a gang O.o And when I say gangs I mean the violent gangs. I know this isn't relevant, but if put in the context of fear.
 
subanallah truth is the west is a devil so its ok for women to be nealy naked in streets but when a woman had dignity and morals and desides to cover up its looked down upon subanalla they so use to seeing women as objects for their desiers that it shocks them
 
crayon said:
Goths can be considered frightening and disturbing, with their dark make up, piercings, strange hair and clothes. So can satanists. So can she-males. Many people find the appearance of these people offensive and disturbing- are they facing the same issues women in niqaab are?
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That's a good point! :)
 
yusuf18 said:
subanallah truth is the west is a devil so its ok for women to be nealy naked in streets but when a woman had dignity and morals and desides to cover up its looked down upon subanalla they so use to seeing women as objects for their desiers that it shocks them
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Sadly, Yusuf, your post contains the same kind of stereotypes about Westerners, which Muslims (rightly!) refuse to accept non-Muslims making about their beliefs and values.

How would you like this version:
Islam is evil; it demands that women are hidden away and covered; dignity and morals and covering up is forced on people; women are objects, any female desire to decide for herself is considered shocking.

Now, I don't consider this to be the truth! It is a gross stereotype and misrepresentation of most Muslims.
The point I am trying to make is that how you feel when you read my statement is probably not too different from how I felt when I read your post ... let's try to be a bit more respectful of each other's cultures, shall we? :)

Salaam :)

Peace
 
glo said:
Sadly, Yusuf, your post contains the same kind of stereotypes about Westerners, which Muslims (rightly!) refuse to accept non-Muslims making about their beliefs and values.

How would you like this version:
Islam is evil; it demands that women are hidden away and covered; dignity and morals and covering up is forced on people; women are objects, any female desire to decide for herself is considered shocking.

Now, I don't consider this to be the truth! It is a gross stereotype and misrepresentation of most Muslims.
The point I am trying to make is that how you feel when you read my statement is probably not too different from how I felt when I read your post ... let's try to be a bit more respectful of each other's cultures, shall we? :)

Salaam :)

Peace
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hell no i wont be respectful to the wrong when allah has showed me light it doesent make as sence muslims you are suppose to hate what allah hates /and you saying stuff about islam tell me the rate of rape in the west compare to muslim world and women being used for her body
 
Yusuf she's not disrespecting you. And as a Muslim its good to keep proper adab and that includes speaking. Not everybody in the West agrees with the concepts that we dont agree with.
 
Light of Heaven said:
Yusuf she's not disrespecting you. And as a Muslim its good to keep proper adab and that includes speaking. Not everybody in the West agrees with the concepts that we dont agree with.
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if they dont agree thats up to them.then if they dont turn to islam allah make them rott in hell and they will be sorry o allah make your punishement swift on the unbelevers and keep them blind in from islam till they have their last breath ameen
 
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