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DavidK565
03-01-2010, 11:53 PM
Hi everyone. I'm an outsider here, but I thought I would go right to the source, since that is where my problem lies.

My family and I (were) Jewish Americans. Recently, my father, mother and younger brother took a vacation to visit the Middle East, and went to several countries along the way. I stayed behind, as I couldn't take time off from my job.

They had always been intrigued by religions in general, and Islam specifically. Apparently, they were greatly influenced by their travels and together, made a determination that they would prepare to convert to Islam and join that community. And that is what they did.

Quite frankly, I was disappointed with their decision (not to insult anyone here... really). Now, I'm apparently the lone holdout in my immediate family, and whenever I see them, I seem to be bombarded with questions about when I'm going to choose to accept Allah and when I'm going to rejoin my family. They give me books to read and pamphlets and all sorts of stuff that I'm supposed to read that will "somehow" get me to see the light and convert too.

I'm not converting; its not because I'm a religious Jew by any means, but rather because I simply do not believe strongly enough in any supernatural creation to turn my life upside down.

The reason why I'm here is: I want to know what the rules are regarding Muslims pushing their religion on others (whether this is acceptable behavior). I would at least like to know that I can tell them to leave me alone and practice their own stuff on their own time. However, i would like to find a way to do this without having my family alienate me or vice versa.

Thanks for your input.
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Alpha Dude
03-02-2010, 12:04 AM
Hi David,

To be honest, if your family sincerely believe Islam is the truth and at the same time, they love and want what is best for you, I don't think there is anything you can do to stop them from trying to convert you. After all, they really are just doing what they believe is good for you.

Saying that, there is no compulsion in religion. They can't 'force' you to convert. Their duty is only to deliver the message. But like I said, it's not so easy for your family to leave it at that in your case cos your family are acting on the love they have for you.

I suggest just be patient with them and know they are only looking out for you the best they know how.
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DavidK565
03-02-2010, 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Hi David,

To be honest, if your family sincerely believe Islam is the truth and at the same time, they love and want what is best for you, I don't think there is anything you can do to stop them from trying to convert you. After all, they really are just doing what they believe is good for you.

Saying that, there is no compulsion in religion. They can't 'force' you to convert. Their duty is only to deliver the message. But like I said, it's not so easy for your family to leave it at that in your case cos your family are acting on the love they have for you.

I suggest just be patient with them and know they are only looking out for you the best they know how.
So it is their "duty" to deliver the message to me, even if I expressed to them that I don't want to receive it. Judaism isn't a "preaching" religion in that sense.

I understand what you said, and I see your point. But as with all religious conflict like this, their constant pushing directly influences my happiness. The more I hear it from them, the less I want to be around them. It would seem logical that if they cared, they would choose not to preach to me, but I suppose at the same time, my "salvation" is on the line or something.
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جوري
03-02-2010, 12:59 AM
Greetings,

There is no compulsion in religion.. There is really no preaching in Islam in that christian sense:
[Pickthal 18:29] Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve

My family urged me for years to do certain things (for instance) praying and I never heeded their advise as orthodox as they are, they never forced only advised.. it wasn't until I was in grad school. that I discovered all the benefits of prayers..

I think it is natural when a member of a family cares and loves for another to want to offer them the very best...


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DavidK565
03-02-2010, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Greetings,

There is no compulsion in religion.. There is really no preaching in Islam in that christian sense:
[Pickthal 18:29] Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve

My family urged me for years to do certain things (for instance) praying and I never heeded their advise as orthodox as they are, they never forced only advised.. it wasn't until I was in grad school. that I discovered all the benefits of prayers..

I think it is natural when a member of a family cares and loves for another to want to offer them the very best...


Gossamer,

Have you and your family always been Muslim? I ask because my family's religious interest in me is fairly recent because they are new to Islam. Before this whole thing, we all lived our lives and that was it. (that isn't to sound like we never spent any time together. We're together quite often). But none of these other issues were important.

NOW all of sudden, they know the "truth" and all of a sudden they HAVE to tell me about it and NOW suddenly they care about my religiosity. It all seems very fake to me. They are so new to all of this, how can they POSSIBLY know whats right for me when they don't even know what's right for themselves?
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DavidK565
03-02-2010, 01:49 AM
Just to elaborate quickly, to me its as if someone has been eating steaks their entire life. Then suddenly they decide to become a vegetarian and then the next week, they come up to you and say, "You have to be a vegetarian. It's so much better for you".
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جوري
03-02-2010, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Gossamer,

Have you and your family always been Muslim? I ask because my family's religious interest in me is fairly recent because they are new to Islam. Before this whole thing, we all lived our lives and that was it. (that isn't to sound like we never spent any time together. We're together quite often). But none of these other issues were important.

NOW all of sudden, they know the "truth" and all of a sudden they HAVE to tell me about it and NOW suddenly they care about my religiosity. It all seems very fake to me. They are so new to all of this, how can they POSSIBLY know whats right for me when they don't even know what's right for themselves?
I haven't always been practicing even if I were born Muslims and yes I was annoyed by their 'advise' ..
you are the best suited to understand all the highways and byways of your relationship with them, I'd think the forum is the wrong place to paint them as fake or sincere. I really think you'd benefit most, simply sitting down with them and letting them know how you feel about all of this and that it is a bit much and a bit fast for you to take in..

Originally Posted by DavidK565
Just to elaborate quickly, to me its as if someone has been eating steaks their entire life. Then suddenly they decide to become a vegetarian and then the next week, they come up to you and say, "You have to be a vegetarian. It's so much better for you".
Religion and food are very separate issues I feel the analogy runs very short..


good luck with all of that, I sincerely hope you sort it out..

peace
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Ummu Sufyaan
03-02-2010, 02:16 AM
congratulations first and foremost to your family. secondly, you shouldn't feel disheartened by them "leaving you out" for the reason that Islam enjoins the uphold of blood ties. i dont think they will you out or alienate you...

please dont be offended by them preaching to you...they probably feel the natural inclination to worry over you, etc...their preaching and methods of preaching might seem really annoying to you, because they are still new at it and haven't found/learnt the most affective way...which is why they come across as blunt and forceful,


NOW all of sudden, they know the "truth" and all of a sudden they HAVE to tell me about it and NOW suddenly they care about my religiosity. It all seems very fake to me. They are so new to all of this, how can they POSSIBLY know whats right for me when they don't even know what's right for themselves?
they are proably acting like that "so suddenly" because they have just realized and grasped the truth. they believe Islam is the one, and so naturally worry over people (especially over their own family)...
you will actually see the same trend in Muslims who haven't been practicing for a while, that after they have realized their mistakes, seem to have this zeal and strong desire to preach to people....this sudden desire to preach may ware off after some time, but the love of Islam, and the desire to continue to preach will not.

everyone goes through periods of strong motivation, and that sometimes may diminish slightly.
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siam
03-02-2010, 02:23 AM
is not so much a "religion" issue as it is a "relationship" issue. The family dynamics have changed and everyone needs to do some adjusting---this adjusting will come with patience and tolerance.
You need to understand that because of changes, you cannot "go back" to the "old ways"---you will have to renegotiate the family relationship.
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Ramadhan
03-02-2010, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
congratulations first and foremost to your family. secondly, you shouldn't feel disheartened by them "leaving you out" for the reason that Islam enjoins the uphold of blood ties. i dont think they will you out or alienate you...

please dont be offended by them preaching to you...they probably feel the natural inclination to worry over you, etc...their preaching and methods of preaching might seem really annoying to you, because they are still new at it and haven't found/learnt the most affective way...which is why they come across as blunt and forceful,

they are proably acting like that "so suddenly" because they have just realized and grasped the truth. they believe Islam is the one, and so naturally worry over people (especially over their own family)...
you will actually see the same trend in Muslims who haven't been practicing for a while, that after they have realized their mistakes, seem to have this zeal and strong desire to preach to people....this sudden desire to preach may ware off after some time, but the love of Islam, and the desire to continue to preach will not.

everyone goes through periods of strong motivation, and that sometimes may diminish slightly.

I totally agree with this and attest from my own experience.

I was not practicing Islam for a loong time, but alhamdulillah Allah SWT has melted my heart and gave me hidayah.
I've had very energizing urge to ask my friends and family members who are either not practicing or not muslims to come back to the fold of Islam.
This is coming from my love for them and wish them to go back to the true path. But my method seems to only work on those who are already on the right path and practicing, while can seem to be very annoying on others.

It seems your family are also on similar situation. They want the best for you, and because they have just have found it, they want very much to share it with you.
Please be patient with them, and may Allah SWT guides you to the right path.
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Asiyah3
03-02-2010, 09:46 AM
Welcome to the Forum David :) I hope you'll have an enjoyable and beneficial knowledge insha'llah(=If God wills).

It seems to me that you don't know much about Islam. It's better to study it first and then judge it. Also as the other members have stated there is no compulsion in religion, no one can force another to believe.

May Allah grant your family the best in this life and the Hereafter and guide you to the Straight path.
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zana
03-02-2010, 10:06 AM
hi David,

Welcome to the forum,

Congratulations to your family on accepting islam as there belief.

I guess its hard for u to understand this all as it happened in a matter of time but im sure your family had a thought about it and this is what they wanted, i guess u need space and time to take it all in but i would recommend u to read up more on Islam simply because now yoyur family have took in a interest u might want to know why. And im sure in time u will come to realise all your answers and hopefully will be guided in the right direction.
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DavidK565
03-03-2010, 12:25 AM
Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my post. I know I got off on a little bit of a rant there; my apologies.

To "_muslim_", who posted below, I just want you to know that I was not trying to pass judgment at all on the religion of Islam. I acknowledge that I don't know much about it, but I certainly was not trying to judge it. I was only judging the peculiar actions of my family.

I think many of you hit on the same points and I appreciate that. It seems there is certainly an adjustment period that we must all go through, and I forget that their new "life" has caused them to be more enthusiastic about it and I need to accept it. It could be worse I suppose... they could be miserable all the time.

Thank you all for your time. I may be popping in occasionally to ask a question or two, if that's alright. You've all been very helpful.
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abu_musab461
03-03-2010, 01:16 AM
Bit funny your situaiton cos i am in the same dilemma cos i because practising at 13 and really found the deen, like most i drfited here and there over the years but Allah swt kept me guided on the Striaght path ultimatly.

Now my brother is younger brother is 18 and ive been so concerned for him for the last few years. thinking i started practisng at 13 why hasnt he.....

alhmadullia i got the understanding early on that the more you "force" them the more they are likely to rebel and thats human nature (as mentioned in surah kahf).

so instead ive been trying to guide him to understanding why its important to pray, purpose of fasting, benefits of worshipping Allah and harms of comming sin etc...

Its been a long slow struggle cos for everyday i make progress shaytan also works on him and ruins my dawah.

In the end it is Allah Who Guides Whom He wills and not Iblis can prevent that
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PouringRain
03-03-2010, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by siam
is not so much a "religion" issue as it is a "relationship" issue. The family dynamics have changed and everyone needs to do some adjusting---this adjusting will come with patience and tolerance.
You need to understand that because of changes, you cannot "go back" to the "old ways"---you will have to renegotiate the family relationship.
I was thinking along these same lines (relationship), only a little different. To me it seemed like the problem is not that they converted to Islam, but that they all went away on vacation, has a great family bonding experience, and did it all without him. He probably feels left out, neglected, and seems to be resentful. The family wants him to share in their joy and their bonding, but he seems unable to move past his hurt and accept their love.

I could be completely wrong, but that is just my thoughts on what I read.


Originally Posted by DavidK565
Just to elaborate quickly, to me its as if someone has been eating steaks their entire life. Then suddenly they decide to become a vegetarian and then the next week, they come up to you and say, "You have to be a vegetarian. It's so much better for you".
And this would be a bad thing? If someone changed their eating habits and discovered what they believed to be a healthier form of eating, one that made them and their body feel so much better, and then felt the need and exuberance to share it with the world.... how is that a bad thing? How you eat it still your choice. Just as what religion your follow or how you choose to worship or not worship God is your choice. Everything you do is your choice. Others may desire what is best for you, out of their love for you, but the choice is still ultimately yours.
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Italianguy
03-03-2010, 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Greetings,

There is no compulsion in religion.. There is really no preaching in Islam in that christian sense:
[Pickthal 18:29] Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve

My family urged me for years to do certain things (for instance) praying and I never heeded their advise as orthodox as they are, they never forced only advised.. it wasn't until I was in grad school. that I discovered all the benefits of prayers..

I think it is natural when a member of a family cares and loves for another to want to offer them the very best...

Ms. Skye were you a Christian before? Are your family Christians? Just asking. Or did you mean praying in your own faith as of now?

Thanks.
Reply

north_malaysian
03-03-2010, 03:50 AM
if you are not comfortable with their preaching to you, maybe you should recite this chapter to them:

109.001 Say : O ye that reject Faith!

109.002 I worship not that which ye worship,

109.003 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.004 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.006 To you be your Way, and to me mine.

(Al Quran:109:1-6)
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siam
03-03-2010, 04:30 AM
Good point malaysia"---"to you be your way and to me mine"
Part of being a "good" Muslim is Adhab (courtesy,ettiquette) which is built on compassion, pateince, tolerance and justice. So, David can actually help his family be better Muslims, simply by being who he is ......?---interesting idea......
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جوري
03-03-2010, 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
Ms. Skye were you a Christian before? Are your family Christians? Just asking. Or did you mean praying in your own faith as of now?

Thanks.
No we are Muslims al7mdlillah, though from my mom's side we had some Jews from Morocco, most converted to Islam except for one great aunt!


all the best
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DavidK565
03-03-2010, 06:50 AM
And this would be a bad thing? If someone changed their eating habits and discovered what they believed to be a healthier form of eating, one that made them and their body feel so much better, and then felt the need and exuberance to share it with the world.... how is that a bad thing? How you eat it still your choice. Just as what religion your follow or how you choose to worship or not worship God is your choice. Everything you do is your choice. Others may desire what is best for you, out of their love for you, but the choice is still ultimately yours.
It is a bad thing because I have always been of the belief that you should let people do as they please, as long as they are not doing anything to hurt themselves. Perhaps my food analogy wasn't the best.

But lets look at this scenario. I don't know how religious you are, lets say that you are a strong believer. You pray to god and believe that you are on the right path to salvation. But then someone comes along and tells you that you're wrong and that THEY know the "real" truth. And they tell you this over and over and over again. Sure, at first, you appreciate that they are trying to help, but you already know deep down that you know what's best for you and that you are right. And yet, you have to keep hearing that your choice in life is the wrong one. Its annoying and intrusive, but thats just my opinion.

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
if you are not comfortable with their preaching to you, maybe you should recite this chapter to them:

109.001 Say : O ye that reject Faith!

109.002 I worship not that which ye worship,

109.003 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.004 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.006 To you be your Way, and to me mine.

(Al Quran:109:1-6)
This is a very good and useful passage. Thank you for sharing this. This is what I was looking for.
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Asiyah3
03-03-2010, 06:55 AM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my post. I know I got off on a little bit of a rant there; my apologies.

To "_muslim_", who posted below, I just want you to know that I was not trying to pass judgment at all on the religion of Islam. I acknowledge that I don't know much about it, but I certainly was not trying to judge it. I was only judging the peculiar actions of my family.
I'm sorry I didn't mean "judge" in that way :)(I just couldn't come up with the right word). I merely meant that you could try to get to know Islam more because you might start to like it yourself.

Also will you be staying here with us in the forum? (after this thread)
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Mohamed_Sadiq
03-03-2010, 10:20 AM
David,

If your family have converted to Islam what a blessing but you have no right to ignore or become fustrated with your family!

I will advice you to convert to Islam aswell and turn away from your current beliefs as I am telling you, your family know better as they have turned to the only religion which is Islam.
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DavidK565
03-03-2010, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Mohamed_Sadiq
David,

If your family have converted to Islam what a blessing but you have no right to ignore or become fustrated with your family!

I will advice you to convert to Islam aswell and turn away from your current beliefs as I am telling you, your family know better as they have turned to the only religion which is Islam.
Mr. Sadiq, I appreciate your words, but I will not be converting to Islam. This is not meant to disparage Islam in any way; its a fine religion for those who choose to believe. But I live a secular lifestyle and I am very happy with it. I am not in search of anything. I think that I'm on the right path for me.

My immediate family has seemingly chosen a different path, and as others have mentioned here, it is something I need to accept and adjust to. However, that does not mean that they know better than I do; in fact I think its quite the opposite.

Originally Posted by _muslim_
I'm sorry I didn't mean "judge" in that way :)(I just couldn't come up with the right word). I merely meant that you could try to get to know Islam more because you might start to like it yourself.

Also will you be staying here with us in the forum? (after this thread)
Yes, I would like to stay as a member of this forum on a limited basis. Everyone has been very helpful with my issue and I think I can learn a great deal here.
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cat eyes
03-03-2010, 04:32 PM
welcome to the forum. humm when you talk about forcing, do you mean somebody putting a gun to your head? this is my idea of forcing somebody, i cant think of any other type of forcing because i don't think any other type of forcing exists. :hmm:

I Just believe that they want you to revert so you can be apart of the family. you will all have the same belief and there will be no fighting or disagreements.

It will make life all the more happier.

wow mashaAllah on there reversion though :p


Allahuakbar ALLAHUAKBAR
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aadil77
03-03-2010, 04:42 PM
My advice to you David is that because they're family try not to get annoyed by them, just tell them to take it easy and not try to insist islam on you as it will only move you further away from it.

But at the same time observe your family, see the changes in their lives, see if their decision was a positive one. If you're still not cinvinced and don't want to take that step, please do still look into islam even if its just to gain a better understanding of your family and their new beliefs, you won't lose anything from that:thumbs_up

Peace
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Esther462
03-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Hi everyone. I'm an outsider here, but I thought I would go right to the source, since that is where my problem lies.

My family and I (were) Jewish Americans. Recently, my father, mother and younger brother took a vacation to visit the Middle East, and went to several countries along the way. I stayed behind, as I couldn't take time off from my job.

They had always been intrigued by religions in general, and Islam specifically. Apparently, they were greatly influenced by their travels and together, made a determination that they would prepare to convert to Islam and join that community. And that is what they did.

Quite frankly, I was disappointed with their decision (not to insult anyone here... really). Now, I'm apparently the lone holdout in my immediate family, and whenever I see them, I seem to be bombarded with questions about when I'm going to choose to accept Allah and when I'm going to rejoin my family. They give me books to read and pamphlets and all sorts of stuff that I'm supposed to read that will "somehow" get me to see the light and convert too.

I'm not converting; its not because I'm a religious Jew by any means, but rather because I simply do not believe strongly enough in any supernatural creation to turn my life upside down.

The reason why I'm here is: I want to know what the rules are regarding Muslims pushing their religion on others (whether this is acceptable behavior). I would at least like to know that I can tell them to leave me alone and practice their own stuff on their own time. However, i would like to find a way to do this without having my family alienate me or vice versa.

Thanks for your input.
I know how you feel apart from my situations is a little diffent. I was Christian and I coverted to Islam. My family is Christian and they keep saying stuff to get me to go back to there faith but I know I'm on the right path for me and I won't go back to Chritainty.
My advise is to repect your family's faith and in time they will repect your faith. That's what I did and we get on as happy as can be.:D
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-03-2010, 06:20 PM
Hey David, welcome to the forum :)

I would just like to say that I was like this too when I first started practicing. It was only later on that I felt I was being too pushy towards my family, especially my brothers. They would get fed up and annoyed with me and didn't like hearing me say anything about Islam. It was just from me that they didn't like it, not that they didn't want anything to do with it. I was afraid I would only push them further away, so I changed my approach.

I personally think the best way to invite a person to Islam is through their actions. Your family is fairly new so I think you should give them the benefit of doubt. If you really feel their way is annoying, you have to tell them that. Sit and talk with them, it's the best way. At the end of the day, they only want what is good for you. They found contentment in Islam and so most likely they feel you would too :)
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DavidK565
03-03-2010, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
welcome to the forum. humm when you talk about forcing, do you mean somebody putting a gun to your head? this is my idea of forcing somebody, i cant think of any other type of forcing because i don't think any other type of forcing exists. :hmm:

I Just believe that they want you to revert so you can be apart of the family. you will all have the same belief and there will be no fighting or disagreements.

It will make life all the more happier.

wow mashaAllah on there reversion though :p


Allahuakbar ALLAHUAKBAR
Cat eyes, thank you for your post and for your help. There are however a couple of things to clear up.

I never said anyone was "forcing" me to do anything. They can't. I'm an adult. The issue is that I'm constantly badgered by it. Every time our family gets together they engage me in conversation about how I should convert and Islam is the true path and all of that. I just didn't like that aspect of it, but as many have pointed out here, they are enthusiastic about their new life and I have to adjust to that.

On your other point, it would seem to me that converting to Islam simply because it would be easier for my family because we would all have the same beliefs is not a good reason to convert. I can't do something like that. I don't believe what they have chosen to believe.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-03-2010, 06:29 PM
"O ye who believe! Enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the evil one; for he is to you an avowed enemy."

Surah Al - Baqarah verse 208
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DavidK565
03-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
"O ye who believe! Enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the evil one; for he is to you an avowed enemy."

Surah Al - Baqarah verse 208
Doesn't this passage essentially mean that those who follow Islam must do so completely and not cater to satan's desire to turn your attention from god?

With all due respect, how is this relevant? I ask because I don't know...
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zakirs
03-03-2010, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Doesn't this passage essentially mean that those who follow Islam must do so completely and not cater to satan's desire to turn your attention from god?

With all due respect, how is this relevant? I ask because I don't know...
David that would be relavent because it mentions the words..Enter into Islam whole-heartedly..

The poster might have wanted to hint to you from a verse of quran that no body can force you.it is with your will alone that you can convert :).

. I don't know how religious you are, lets say that you are a strong believer. You pray to god and believe that you are on the right path to salvation. But then someone comes along and tells you that you're wrong and that THEY know the "real" truth. And they tell you this over and over and over again. Sure, at first, you appreciate that they are trying to help, but you already know deep down that you know what's best for you and that you are right. And yet, you have to keep hearing that your choice in life is the wrong one. Its annoying and intrusive, but thats just my opinion
Regarding this .. just be patient they are your family and they want to see you well.And u might not search for something divine as of now when your life is going good, but there will be a time in life when (godwilling) you will search for something.Just remember their words till then.And i wish to show you this verse from quran
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: My Lord! Bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood. (17:23)
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Italianguy
03-03-2010, 09:31 PM
Be patient with your family brother. They may have reverted to Islam but guess what...your mother is still your mother, and father is still your father. They will still love you the same, as you should them.

Dude, I am a protestant with %90 percent of my family being Roman Catholic, and a couple of others in the family being ..........Muslim:shade:

It makes for interesting dinner discussions at least;D

God be with you!
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IceQueen~
03-03-2010, 09:34 PM
The problem here is wisdom in da'wah

This is an example of why one has to be extremely wise when encouraging a non-muslim to accept Islam because if you go about it the wrong way you'll end up pushing them away

As for your family David they have just come into something new and this is just their eagerness and excitement over it
without realising they are being too pushy -try talking to them about it

I'm sure if you explained to them that their being a little too pushy is actually pushing you away from what they have to say they'd understand

I hope everything goes for the best in sha Allah (God-willing)
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-04-2010, 04:04 AM
Originally Posted by zakirs
David that would be relavent because it mentions the words..Enter into Islam whole-heartedly..

The poster might have wanted to hint to you from a verse of quran that no body can force you.it is with your will alone that you can convert :).
JazakAllah Khayr brother! That's exactly what I was hinting.


When one chooses to follow Islam, it should be for their own gain i.e. spiritually and for God ALONE, not for anyone else. You would just be a Muslim and not following. So the verse says enter wholly and willingly.

@ David, did you miss my other post? :D lol
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DavidK565
08-27-2010, 09:33 AM
Hello everyone. Hope you're all doing well with the holidays...

I haven't been on here for a few months, but since I have a bit of free time, I thought I would provide an update to my situation. I know you've all been waiting on pins and needles :)

You will all be pleased to know that my converted family members are still enthusiastic about their change in lifestyle. They do their best to stay Halal, to pray, and all that other stuff. A part of me is happy that they have all found something about which to be enthusiastic.

Unfortunately, that initial enthusiasm hasn't worn off at all. The initial issue was that I was constantly being bombarded with talk of conversion, the Qu'ran and how I should rejoin the family. I was hoping that this would have subsided with time, but it still hasn't.

As a result, my family and I don't communicate much. It seems that we don't have anything in common anymore, which is a shame. The relationship with my brother is especially disturbing. I spoke to him just once recently, and he informed me that he broke up with his girlfriend of 7 years because, apparently, you can't have a girlfriend in Islam. I still don't get it, but whatever.

So things haven't exactly gone as planned so far. I don't know how long I should expect to wait for things to improve. I don't know what I should be doing to make things easier. I don't know if I should even bother. Hmm....

Peace.
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S_87
08-27-2010, 12:38 PM
They are you mother and father, they will push islam on you as it is their duty even more so than the average person on the street. you say youre a jew. i dunno what you believe, but im sure you belive non jews will go to hell right? well, anyone who doesnt believe in Allah as the only one worthy of worship and Muhammed peace and blessing be upon him as the messenger of Allah is doomed. can you see what burden your parents have to try and convert you to save you? dont push them off, let them speak, they arent being aggressive are they? they are only looking out for your wellbeing :)

and what u said about ur bro and his girlfriend, pre marital relationships are forbidden :)
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Vigno
08-27-2010, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Hello everyone. Hope you're all doing well with the holidays...

I haven't been on here for a few months, but since I have a bit of free time, I thought I would provide an update to my situation. I know you've all been waiting on pins and needles :)

You will all be pleased to know that my converted family members are still enthusiastic about their change in lifestyle. They do their best to stay Halal, to pray, and all that other stuff. A part of me is happy that they have all found something about which to be enthusiastic.

Unfortunately, that initial enthusiasm hasn't worn off at all. The initial issue was that I was constantly being bombarded with talk of conversion, the Qu'ran and how I should rejoin the family. I was hoping that this would have subsided with time, but it still hasn't.

As a result, my family and I don't communicate much. It seems that we don't have anything in common anymore, which is a shame. The relationship with my brother is especially disturbing. I spoke to him just once recently, and he informed me that he broke up with his girlfriend of 7 years because, apparently, you can't have a girlfriend in Islam. I still don't get it, but whatever.

So things haven't exactly gone as planned so far. I don't know how long I should expect to wait for things to improve. I don't know what I should be doing to make things easier. I don't know if I should even bother. Hmm....

Peace.
Peace David

How about you try to listen to them sincerely? There's nothing to lose right?
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Amat Allah
08-27-2010, 01:26 PM
May Allah lead your way to the path of the endless happiness...Ameeeen
Reply

aadil77
08-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Unfortunately, that initial enthusiasm hasn't worn off at all. The initial issue was that I was constantly being bombarded with talk of conversion, the Qu'ran and how I should rejoin the family. I was hoping that this would have subsided with time, but it still hasn't.

As a result, my family and I don't communicate much. It seems that we don't have anything in common anymore, which is a shame. The relationship with my brother is especially disturbing. I spoke to him just once recently, and he informed me that he broke up with his girlfriend of 7 years because, apparently, you can't have a girlfriend in Islam. I still don't get it, but whatever.

So things haven't exactly gone as planned so far. I don't know how long I should expect to wait for things to improve. I don't know what I should be doing to make things easier. I don't know if I should even bother. Hmm....

Peace.
hmm, your family shouldn't break up communication with you because you chose not to convert, your family ties should remain the same with them, if its them who are breaking ties then remind them of this obligation

ofcourse you still have things in common, islam might make up a big part of their life but you can still talk about whatever you used to before, you're still family

about your brother, yes its forbidden to have pre-marital relationships - pretty sure its the same in judaism? - so as a muslim he either had the choice to marry her or forget her, maybe they were unable to get married for whatever reasons?

also have you tried looking into islam since they converted? maybe showing an interest might get them to calm down on you
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Muslim Woman
08-27-2010, 01:36 PM
Salaam/Peace

Originally Posted by DavidK565
.... he informed me that he broke up with his girlfriend of 7 years because, apparently, you can't have a girlfriend in Islam. .
yes , he is right . May Allah reward him for the right decision.

If u have any questions about Islam , pl. feel free to ask. InshaAllah ( God Willing) we will try to ans.
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Rhubarb Tart
08-27-2010, 01:37 PM
:sl:
^ He never said he was a practising Jew.

Congrats to your family. Ameen to dua.

@OP speak to your family about how you feel and mention that there is no compulsion in Islam. If you were to accept Islam, you should only do it for sake of Allah (swt) not your family.
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DavidK565
08-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Vigno
Peace David

How about you try to listen to them sincerely? There's nothing to lose right?
I have no issue listening to them when they talk ABOUT Islam. I am not adverse to learning more about it. But as far as joining them on their "journey" or whatever, I can't see any conceivable way that I would ever feel that way about Islam or any other religion. And I don't know what else I should really be doing? What am I supposed to listen to?

Originally Posted by aadil77
hmm, your family shouldn't break up communication with you because you chose not to convert, your family ties should remain the same with them, if its them who are breaking ties then remind them of this obligation

ofcourse you still have things in common, islam might make up a big part of their life but you can still talk about whatever you used to before, you're still family

about your brother, yes its forbidden to have pre-marital relationships - pretty sure its the same in judaism? - so as a muslim he either had the choice to marry her or forget her, maybe they were unable to get married for whatever reasons?

also have you tried looking into islam since they converted? maybe showing an interest might get them to calm down on you
Thanks for your response, aadil77. In all honesty, I think I'm the one pulling back from them. I know its not right, but it doesn't feel as if there is much to say, and any discussion inevitably leads back to Islam. As I'm sure you're aware, Islam (as is the case with devout followers of any religion) is not JUST a religion, but a lifestyle. Their lifestyle used to be rather similar to mine and because of that, we had much in common. But religions change the way you see the world, and change your behavior. And it seems that half the stuff I do is Haraam.

RE: my brother and marriage in general, if you can't date and have a girlfriend/boyfriend, how are you supposed to find someone to marry? It sounds counter-productive.

I'm fascinated by lots of religions, but more from an academic standpoint. I'm sure my parents would LOVE for me to show interest in Islam and potentially convert, but frankly, I'm highly resistant to that notion. And it has nothing to do with any particular feelings towards Islam... following any religion too closely seems to contradict everything I know.

Originally Posted by sweet106
^ He never said he was a practising Jew.

Congrats to your family. Ameen to dua.

OP speak to your family about how you feel and mention that there is no compulsion in Islam. If you were to accept Islam, you should only do it for sake of Allah (swt) not your family.
Yes, correct. I'm not a practicing Jew. I understand that I can't convert out of compulsion. That would be silly on several levels.

Originally Posted by S_87
They are you mother and father, they will push islam on you as it is their duty even more so than the average person on the street. you say youre a jew. i dunno what you believe, but im sure you belive non jews will go to hell right? well, anyone who doesnt believe in Allah as the only one worthy of worship and Muhammed peace and blessing be upon him as the messenger of Allah is doomed. can you see what burden your parents have to try and convert you to save you? dont push them off, let them speak, they arent being aggressive are they? they are only looking out for your wellbeing

and what u said about ur bro and his girlfriend, pre marital relationships are forbidden
Hi, and thanks for your response. I understand that their goal is to "help" me. I don't question that. I simply don't want that kind of help. And just to clarify your comment about Jews, I think the vast majority of Jews aren't even believers in hell. And it stands to reason that people would not be condemned to hell simply for being a different religion. I don't believe non-Jews in general, or Muslims specifically are going to hell.
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aadil77
08-27-2010, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Thanks for your response, aadil77. In all honesty, I think I'm the one pulling back from them. I know its not right, but it doesn't feel as if there is much to say, and any discussion inevitably leads back to Islam. As I'm sure you're aware, Islam (as is the case with devout followers of any religion) is not JUST a religion, but a lifestyle. Their lifestyle used to be rather similar to mine and because of that, we had much in common. But religions change the way you see the world, and change your behavior. And it seems that half the stuff I do is Haraam.

RE: my brother and marriage in general, if you can't date and have a girlfriend/boyfriend, how are you supposed to find someone to marry? It sounds counter-productive.

I'm fascinated by lots of religions, but more from an academic standpoint. I'm sure my parents would LOVE for me to show interest in Islam and potentially convert, but frankly, I'm highly resistant to that notion. And it has nothing to do with any particular feelings towards Islam... following any religion too closely seems to contradict everything I know.
Yep thats right, if they're quite practising their whole life will revolve around islam, but you're still family so I'm sure you can find something to talk about. I know when you don't have much to relate to theres not much to talk about, its like with my non-muslims mates - all they ever talk about is girls and how they went clubbing the night before and got p*ssed, but then again theres loads of things you can divert to and say.

About marriage - 7 years is lot of time to get to know each other, in islam theres no concept of dating and being alone together in a relationship before marriage, if you want to get to know each other - you can do so but the woman must have her parents around or a male relative - someone that can act as a intermediary for her and prevent any wrongful talk
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Grace Seeker
08-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
I have no issue listening to them when they talk ABOUT Islam. I am not adverse to learning more about it. But as far as joining them on their "journey" or whatever, I can't see any conceivable way that I would ever feel that way about Islam or any other religion. And I don't know what else I should really be doing? What am I supposed to listen to?
Earlier you made the analogy to a steak eater who has become a vegetarian. While some may not see the parallel, I think you've come up with a good illustration. Another might be the former smoker who quits. My experiece is that the convert is often much more aggressive in promoting their new found faith, truth, even favorite band than the person who grew up with it. I once had a friend aggressively try to steer me into martial arts because she had found it and it had made such a difference in her life; she treated it like a religion. What you might try is to say to them as plainly as you have here: "I am not adverse to learning more about it. But as far as joining them on their 'journey' or whatever, I can't see any conceivable way that I would ever feel that way about Islam or any other religion." The point is not that you reject them (or even Islam for that matter) but that you are establishing the boundaries of your life and the context in which you are comfortable having the conversation that is so important to them. But frankly, if they are truly sincere in their new found faith (be it Islam or any other religion) don't be surprised if they never loose their enthusiasm. I've been a Christian 37 years and I still haven't lost my enthusiasm for it. What I have done is learned to moderate the manner in which I present myself to others in order to continue relationships that are important to me. And don't be misled. If you family does this, and I hope/expect they will. It won't be because they have any less desire to see you "join them on their journey", but because they understand that they can't let a wall develop between you and them if they ever want to see you take the steps toward them necessary to make that journey.

So, can this work out to a place of comfortability between you and your family? Certainly. But for it to work, it will require your love for each other to be big enough to accept the differences that exist and learning how to live respecting those differences. And that means that you can't expect things to go back to the way they were before. There is a change that has taken place. It is a real change, and thus there is no going back because you are no longer in the same place that you once were. But you can go forward. And in going forward you can find (and even enjoy) your new relationship. At first it won't seem normal because it isn't what you are used to. But just because it is different doesn't mean it has to be bad. That, again, is for you as a family to work on. It will take time, but given that time (it won't take 37 years, but it will take more than 5-6 months) I new normal will develop and as it does I expect a certain level of comfortablity will emerge.



Originally Posted by DavidK565
Thanks for your response, aadil77. In all honesty, I think I'm the one pulling back from them. I know its not right, but it doesn't feel as if there is much to say, and any discussion inevitably leads back to Islam. As I'm sure you're aware, Islam (as is the case with devout followers of any religion) is not JUST a religion, but a lifestyle. Their lifestyle used to be rather similar to mine and because of that, we had much in common. But religions change the way you see the world, and change your behavior. And it seems that half the stuff I do is Haraam.
David, it is good that you can see that you might be the one pulling back. Though the impetus for this discomfort might have to do with your family's new found faith. The process of addressing your concerns really aren't as much about religion (and I say this knowing that Islam is, as you say, not just a religion but a lifestyle), but about inter-personal and family dynamics. Recognize that some of that is in your control, and some of it is not. I would encourage you to work on that which you can. Learn not only to be internally tolerant, but to externally practice tolerance. Accept what you can. As I said, I am a Christian, not a Muslim. But when my Muslim daughter is in the house during Ramadan, I keep all aspects of Ramadan right along with her -- prayers, fasting, giving to charity, everything except saying the Shahada -- for none of this is against my own beliefs. On the other hand, I do have to draw some boundaries because Islam and Christianity are different. And since you don't seem to have any faith in a divine being, you're going to have differences as well. Ask your family to not only recognize that these differences exist, but to honor you enough that they can respect that this is what you have chosen for yourself. Thank them for caring enough about you and your eternal destinty that they want to do all they can to lead you into the truth (and remember it is the one and only truth from where they are coming from), but then help them to see that their manner of doing so is actually being counter productive. If they really want to reach you with this new found truth advise them on ways that you will be more comfortable in hearing it. Encourage them to do more praying for you, but less proselytizing of you. And help them to see that if you see this new found faith to actually become not just a short term experience, but a long-term blessing of their life, that it is likely to carry more weight and to lead you to seek the same thing for your life in the long-term than any argument that they could make in the short-term.

The above I share with you from the perspective of one who has had to counsel people experiencing the enthusiasm you say your family is demonstrating. I'm not just a Christian, I am also a pastor. And many a member of my congregations have shared their grief with regard to other family members who don't have the faith they have. And while I have no problem with the basic idea of sharing one's faith, I find that there are productive and unproductive ways to do that. In a sense, I hope your family never gives up in sharing their new found faith with you, for the essence of loving another is to share the good things we find that benefit our lives. But I also understand that you and they need to find a way for them to do this that maintains the cohesiveness of your family while they do this. Again, my experience is that this comes through learning tolerance of differences, clearly knowing who one's self is and defining that person independent of the group (which means establishing and respecting boundaries), but also showing a willingness to engage each other communicating about those things which are important in life yet doing so in a way that grants the sort of space those boundaries require. It is a balancing act. And one that changes with each step, not just in their faith journey, but also in each of our life journies. And recognize it or not, like it or not, none of our lives are static, including your own.
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DavidK565
08-27-2010, 05:08 PM
This was an epic post, Grace Seeker. Thank you very much. I think trying to establish these new boundaries would be a good place to start. Obviously, being abrasive at the beginning didn't work, and ignoring them doesn't seem to work either. I did want to draw attention to one thing you said though:

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
And don't be misled. If you family does this, and I hope/expect they will. It won't be because they have any less desire to see you "join them on their journey", but because they understand that they can't let a wall develop between you and them if they ever want to see you take the steps toward them necessary to make that journey.
Isn't this a little... underhanded? Ideally, they should accept me for who I am, and make things work (and yes, I know its a two way street), rather than accept me in the hopes of STILL getting me to join them when my guard is down.

The second half of your post was also interesting. The thought of joining in these activities when I'm with them hadn't exactly occurred to me. I'm not crazy about the praying idea, but its not like I CAN'T do it for fear of offending my own God. Generally, I would really just be going through the motions, and not really be into it, but that would be a way of appeasing them, maybe.

(Just out of curiosity, did you convert to Christianity, or did your daughter convert to Islam?)

The thing that most concerns me is my brother's behavior. I know I have to wait for a new "normal" in our relationship, but it seems that Islam has put up a wall between everything that we used to do together that was fun. Short list, off the top of my head:

- Can't listen to music in the car or at home.
- Can't go to movies that have supposed anti-muslim antics or vulgarity, or violence.
- Can't play video games because they contain vulgarities, nudity, music, etc.
- Can't go to the beach because there are women there.
- Can't have a dog in the house. (We got a dog when the dog was 3 months old. She is now 13 years old. She's known us her entire life, and my family tried to give her away without me knowing because dogs are unclean! Now the dog lives with me....)

Sometimes all of those things just build up in me and I get really pissed. Especially the dog thing. Under those circumstances, its difficult for me to be understanding and willfully join in these activities, even if it would be going through the motions.
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Grace Seeker
08-27-2010, 05:24 PM
I understand how things like the dog could piss you off. Here's the thing, you were right when you said
Originally Posted by DavidK565
Ideally, they should accept me for who I am, and make things work
They should. That is one reality. Yours and mine. But they live in a different reality than ours. And like you also said, "I know its a two way street." Part of the idea of establishing boundaries is to know which side of the street you are walking down at the time. You seem to have found a good solution with regard to the dog -- he is in your house and not theirs. What other things can you approach that way?

And just to confuse you even more, neither my daughter nor I converted. She was born and raised Muslim, and my wife and I were both born and raised Christian. She came to live in our home as an exchange student. Though that was now nearly a decade ago, she continues to refer to my wife and me as "mom" and "dad", and we are welcomed in her home by her biological parents as her (and even their) American family. And, just because it might make a difference in understanding how this is more of a family and personality dynamic you are experiencing than a religious issue for you, the only one who tries to convert us is not any family member, but a very loving neighbor who is treated as an aunt in much the same way that we are also family.
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aadil77
08-27-2010, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
- Can't listen to music in the car or at home.
- Can't go to movies that have supposed anti-muslim antics or vulgarity, or violence.
- Can't play video games because they contain vulgarities, nudity, music, etc.
- Can't go to the beach because there are women there. - nude women
- Can't have a dog in the house. (We got a dog when the dog was 3 months old. She is now 13 years old. She's known us her entire life, and my family tried to give her away without me knowing because dogs are unclean! Now the dog lives with me....)
Seems your family are quite practising, well alot more than me

if you think about those things you'll see that there is valid reasoning behind them, personally I still watch movies and play video games here and there - I just avoid ones that might be contain vulgar content
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DavidK565
08-30-2010, 04:45 PM
I can understand that as they are new converts they want to do everything "right". Maybe they'll ease up at some point. Who knows. But as of now, it seems they're quite serious about their religious practices.

But, with all due respect, aadil, I don't get it. I honestly don't get any of it. Perhaps you can shed some light on it for me. My point of view on these issues is all pretty much the same, except for the dog: It seems to me that Islam is quite concerned with people's behavior and their frame of mind. It seems that simply exposing someone to something that is not ideal can "corrupt" them. The way I see it, it isn't so much the things you expose yourself to, but what you do AFTER you've been exposed. For example, if I play a game like Grand Theft Auto (awesome game), and I go around town blowing people's heads off, sure its violent. But under no circumstances would I think that I should do this in the REAL world. One should be able to separate fantasy from reality. If one listens to music that has curses or a beat or whatever, that doesn't mean that those lyrics become words to live by, nor does it mean that someone who enjoys a good melody is any more detached from god.

As for the "dogs are dirty" thing, I can't even figure it out.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just sharing my perspective on these things. To me, it comes down to choice and human beings can make good ones or bad ones, regardless of their exposure.
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aadil77
08-30-2010, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
I can understand that as they are new converts they want to do everything "right". Maybe they'll ease up at some point. Who knows. But as of now, it seems they're quite serious about their religious practices.

But, with all due respect, aadil, I don't get it. I honestly don't get any of it. Perhaps you can shed some light on it for me. My point of view on these issues is all pretty much the same, except for the dog: It seems to me that Islam is quite concerned with people's behavior and their frame of mind. It seems that simply exposing someone to something that is not ideal can "corrupt" them. The way I see it, it isn't so much the things you expose yourself to, but what you do AFTER you've been exposed. For example, if I play a game like Grand Theft Auto (awesome game), and I go around town blowing people's heads off, sure its violent. But under no circumstances would I think that I should do this in the REAL world. One should be able to separate fantasy from reality. If one listens to music that has curses or a beat or whatever, that doesn't mean that those lyrics become words to live by, nor does it mean that someone who enjoys a good melody is any more detached from god.

As for the "dogs are dirty" thing, I can't even figure it out.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just sharing my perspective on these things. To me, it comes down to choice and human beings can make good ones or bad ones, regardless of their exposure.
no problem, as this is all new to you I'll try and explain best I can

- About dogs or animals in general: what you have to understand is that in islam purity and cleanliness is a huge thing, our homes especially should be very clean. The reason is that a muslim home and what you do inside that home should be treated as if you're inside a masjid or a prayer room. You should be able to pray anywhere in that home knowing that an animal hasn't crapped, urinated or drooled on the floor. Would you bring an animal inside a synagogue? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say - a muslim home should be very sacred and well kept.

- With games/tv/movies there is no strict final say on them being forbidden, the general rule is that anything whether games, movies etc that may contain vulgarity should be avoided. I still play GTA and blow off people heads but I don't pick up hoes or go into strip clubs in the game. I still watch movies, but when something rude comes up I just cover my eyes. Fictional violence isn't something thats forbidden. Some people - like your parents - might choose to avoid it all together. You can't blame them, there is a alot of filth on tv and now even in games, what you can advise them is that instead of avoiding tv, movies and games altogether, rather avoid the ones which could be offensive to them. Again coming back to the point about keeping the home sacred - your family might not want any kind of evil within the home, as it deprives the home of blessings and also angels will not visit as often.

- Music: you might find this hard to understand, but we believe music (made using instruments) is from satan. The reason is; you try listening to some music and see how it messes with your mind, try watching an action film with the volume low or muted, try driving your car with loud music on - you'll realise that music heavily influences your mind - it can get you all hyped up. As muslims we're always meant to be in a clear state of mind, there should be no alcohol, drugs or music playing around in our heads, that can prevent us from thinking straight and be unable to focus on god at any given time. Once again about the sanctity of a home or place of worship; would you play music inside a synagogue or any other place of worship?

I hope you get understand what I'm trying to get at, there is valid reasoning behind everything we do
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جوري
08-30-2010, 06:27 PM
David K, why not address all your religious queries and those having to do with jurisprudence to a Muslim scholar?..
Jews have a site called Askmoses.com to address their questions to pressing issues
Muslims also have multiple sites where you can ask knowledgeable scholars.. understand please, though we are practicing Muslims, and strive for perfection, we are not scholars that can answer all your queries with sound evidence as opposed to personal persuasions..

All the best
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aadil77
08-30-2010, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
David K, why not address all your religious queries and those having to do with jurisprudence to a Muslim scholar?..
Jews have a site called Askmoses.com to address their questions to pressing issues
Muslims also have multiple sites where you can ask knowledgeable scholars.. understand please, though we are practicing Muslims, and strive for perfection, we are not scholars that can answer all your queries with sound evidence as opposed to personal persuasions..

All the best
I was thinkin of giving him links to all the various fatwas concerning his queries... although scholars will provide sound evidence - they'll only give hard facts, he's clearly aware of the hard facts - what he needs help is with trying to understand the reasoning behind it all
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جوري
08-31-2010, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I was thinkin of giving him links to all the various fatwas concerning his queries... although scholars will provide sound evidence - they'll only give hard facts, he's clearly aware of the hard facts - what he needs help is with trying to understand the reasoning behind it all
I am not sure if he is aware of the facts or simply being emotive as I see his approach is quite linear (that is my observation) When people are troubled for whatever reason, and I can see a big change such as this as upsetting, it is best to seek professional help in my humble opinion.. whether a conversion or a new onset depression admixed with paranoia.. I mean we are all aware of things but to elucidate them to a level, well that takes a professional..

:w:
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DavidK565
08-31-2010, 09:10 PM
Aadil, thank you for your patience and explanation. I honestly didn't think it was possible, but I must admit that your explanations did make sense on a certain level. What you said about music is true; in a way it can influence one's behavior. I find that to be one of the attractive qualities of music, but I understand that if your focus is supposed to be on god, then it can be quite a distraction. (But I am pretty sure that a lot of christian churches play music during services). Regarding dogs, I thought it would have something to do with them going outdoors, which didn't make much sense, considering the frequency with which people go outdoors.

The Vale's Lily, I grant you that I have a very limited pool of knowledge, and perhaps my thinking is a bit linear in this regard, because it is what I know and what I am most familiar with. It would stand to reason that I would use that philosophy and try to attribute it to other things. However, I am trying to understand why these things are the way they are, in the hopes of finding answers similar to the ones Aadil gave me. I may not agree with them all, but finding practical and rational explanations is always helpful.

Thank you both.
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aadil77
08-31-2010, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
(But I am pretty sure that a lot of christian churches play music during services)
Thank you both.
Lol no problem, I was actually going to mention the music in churches bit

this vid should demonstrate what happens when you mix music with religion...



... you go nuts and become possessed
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Grace Seeker
09-01-2010, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by DavidK565
What you said about music is true; in a way it can influence one's behavior. I find that to be one of the attractive qualities of music, but I understand that if your focus is supposed to be on god, then it can be quite a distraction. (But I am pretty sure that a lot of christian churches play music during services).

Yes we do. But we use it in just the way that aadil expresses concern about. We use it to help carry the message. Now, I find that a plus with regard to music and that it helps me to focus on God. But if one had the view that aadil has expressed, then any music, even that which carried a "good" message might be something that one would want to avoid.

Btw, though you're family seems to be of the "no music' views which also dominates in this forum, you will also find that there are sincere and faithful Muslims who don't entirely agree with that particular understanding. And while it is a definite minority (almost absent) on this particular forum, music is more common in Islam than your family or this forum might lead you to think.
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DavidK565
09-01-2010, 12:12 AM
LOL. Borat was so funny. I think the problem with these christians goes far beyond listening to music though.
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Grace Seeker
09-01-2010, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Lol no problem, I was actually going to mention the music in churches bit

this vid should demonstrate what happens when you mix music with religion...
HAHAHA!! I never went to see Borat. I knew the movie was a lampoon of all sorts of things, churches included. But I got to admit he seemed to get the pentecostal variety down pretty well. Yes, that actually is a demonstration of what can (not necessarily will) happen when you mix music with religion. Here is another example:
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aadil77
09-01-2010, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Btw, though you're family seems to be of the "no music' views which also dominates in this forum, you will also find that there are sincere and faithful Muslims who don't entirely agree with that particular understanding. And while it is a definite minority (almost absent) on this particular forum, music is more common in Islam than your family or this forum might lead you to think.
oh yh definately.. you get these nutters in the muslim world as well

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aadil77
09-01-2010, 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
HAHAHA!! I never went to see Borat. I knew the movie was a lampoon of all sorts of things, churches included. But I got to admit he seemed to get the pentecostal variety down pretty well. Yes, that actually is a demonstration of what can (not necessarily will) happen when you mix music with religion. Here is another example:
didn't notice much/any music in that? maybe some organ?

the voices god has given us are a complete alternative to music from instruments
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Asiyah3
09-01-2010, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
And while it is a definite minority (almost absent) on this particular forum, music is more common in Islam than your family or this forum might lead you to think.
Music is more common amongst Muslims, not in Islam.
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Grace Seeker
09-01-2010, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
didn't notice much/any music in that? maybe some organ?

the voices god has given us are a complete alternative to music from instruments
You didn't notice what you would call "instrumental" music, but it is still music. We don't draw a distinction between the instrument used. My wife was a music major. Her major instrument was piano, her minor instrument was voice.


Originally Posted by **muslimah**
Music is more common amongst Muslims, not in Islam.
Thank-you for the clarification. I'm sure David will appreciate the distinction.
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جوري
09-01-2010, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Thank-you for the clarification. I'm sure David will appreciate the distinction.
David (P) had a beautiful voice not a beautiful lute!
surely you can appreciate the difference!

all the best
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aadil77
09-01-2010, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

David (P) had a beautiful voice not a beautiful lute!
surely you can appreciate the difference!

all the best
I think she was reffering to the member david, not dawud (a.h)

or maybe you're already aware of that, I dunno :hiding:
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جوري
09-01-2010, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I think she was reffering to the member david, not dawud (a.h)

or maybe you're already aware of that, I dunno :hiding:
No, I just read grace's post and assumed he was talking about the prophet david (p)

meh lack of glucose will do that to you.. I better go breaking fast will be in 4 mins insha'Allah..

:w:
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