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Search
12-03-2015, 09:38 PM
:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl:

For better or worse, technology is here to stay, and it is a staple of most modern people today. I think most radicalization happens online today, and it is this that is the subject of my interest in this thread. Negative voices are easily amplified on the Internet, and people may fall to the radicalization due to many reasons that include feeling like the terrorists are offering a "higher" purpose, especially if the person feels rudderless in his/her life.

Mostly though, I think radicalization happens due to the demonization of the West, and I really think that this needs to stop on all levels. I'm not saying that Western imperialism or aggression do not occur in the Global Age, but the discussion of this needs to be contextualized as a matter of geopolitical impasse. Because I think the "us versus them" rhetoric is only substantiated in the minds of radicals when the current world affairs is seen as inlaying the ground for destruction of Muslims and by extension Islam.

Finally, I think we need to constantly remember and remind others that we're seeing the will of Allah SWT in force (with human agents are only acting out that will).

Sorry, my thoughts are a little disorganized at the moment, but I figured I'd create the thread anyway because I'm keen to hear people's thoughts.

:wa:
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IslamicRevival
12-03-2015, 11:21 PM
Unfortunately it actually is 'us V them'. The west are the aggressors and have been since the fall of the ottoman khilafah, they have too often created 'puppet monsters' and put them in power of Muslim majority countries only to dispose of them when it suits them.

They are the ones who are ultimately responsible for angering Muslims by waging war against the average Iraqi, Afghani, Palestinian Muslim.

The truth is not radical
Reply

Abz2000
12-04-2015, 12:01 AM
Most people who are "radical" (or whatever nonsense label you might want to apply) got their biggest dose in 2003-2004 while the criminal american government was murdering people in Iraq (after it had lost it's fake propaganda capital in afganistan), those days i still remember well, when i didn't have internet and wasn't a person who prayed much other than the tedious task of taking mom to jumu'ah, islamic lectures i'd thought were for oldies with one foot in the grave.
But the constant attacks on Islam used to falsely justify their attacks in Muslim lands, the talk of oppression of women who wore hijab, the discussions and debates on niqab, the lies about imaginary wmd by the possessors of wmd was more than enough for any thinking person to wonder what world they were living in. When any sincere person - no matter how astray - sees and feels the hypocrisy of his stance in supporting or being a part of falsehood and oppression, he/she would normally embark upon a journey to put things right - normally peacefully, then when faced with the totally irrational threats and hatred, automatically polarizes.

Lol, i sometimes squirm when i recall that i once used to go on the internet and diss people who attacked american and british kafir targets because i thought "they were giving Islam bad name", probably because i'd never felt the sting of the oppressors lash and thought that the vilification in the media was the worst that could happen, but the continually rising number of tortured and dead bodies all over the globe is difficult to ignore. Especially when they got called on the wmd and said "but we need the oil" and when our t.v imams lied to us and told us "there's no violence in Islam".


And when teresa may called cheery old zakir naik a radical i just laughed out LOUD

Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 12:48 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Bro Vision, thank you for responding: I appreciate your input.

That said, apologies in advance, as I am inclined to respectfully disagree with you.

To be honest, I think it is all of us [humanity] versus shaitaan (satan).

Even leaving aside though, I'll share my thoughts on this matter and hope they are coherent enough to follow (and apologies in advance if they're not):

In the famous Battle of Badr, Muslims were outnumbered yet Allah SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) supported them with angels because they were believers with taqwa (God-consciousness), and their beautiful intentions and actions were in conformity with the teachings of Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him). Today, Muslims are Masha-Allah (as God willed) some almost 2 billion strong, yet where is that support from Allah SWT? In fact, an astonishing story relays that when a pious Muslim some centuries ago set out to fight on the side of Muslims in a battle, he saw a sight that stopped him in his tracks: The angels were siding with the unbelievers creating terror in the hearts of Muslims. Even watching the geopolitical situations unfold in our world today, I find that the support of Allah SWT is simply not there with the Muslims.

Also, as contemporary Muslims, I wonder why we are so quick to criticize and blame Western governments or non-Muslims without realizing that this was not the the mindset or behavior of early Muslims. Early Muslims knew what the majority Muslims of our time seem not to realize in our time: Early Muslims knew that Allah only appoints leaders over humanity on earth that we, the humanity, earn through our internal condition, that is, intentions and individual and collective actions. Therefore, criticizing governments for their bad policies or actions is ineffective because the American government is perfect for the American people, the Russian government is perfect for the Russian people, and the Pakistani government is perfect for the Pakistani peoples. Because humanity our time is at the lowest dregs of spiritual fulfillment of our primoridal covenant with Allah SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) to obey Him, Allah is appointing unjust ones over us, and no one may correct the matter because that is Divine Will.

Also, what about what happened during the time of Caliphate of Umar radiyallaahu anhu (may God be pleased with him)? During a battle, Muslim warriors found themselves losing to their enemies. So, what did Umar radiyallaahu anhu (may God be pleased with him) say to the Muslims? Did he say to the Muslims that the non-Muslims were evil or oppressive or responsible for us [Muslims] losing? No. Umar radiyallaahu anhu (may God be pleased with him) asked them to make sure they were still practicing on the actions from the sunnah (prophetic footsteps). They realized that they had not been using miswaak. So, they all banded together and started using miswaak again. Just at the sight of this action, the enemy camp fled believing that the Muslim warriors were sharpening their teeth to eat them. (Lol.) Anyhoo, I think you'll understand that the point I'm trying to make: Muslims themselves, due to their internal spiritual condition, have invited a lack of support from Allah SWT, because as you and I both know that the almost 2 billion Muslims are not even a hairbreadth's close to satisfying all the 5 pillars of Islam due to our general lack of taqwa (God-consciousness) and love of dunya (world).

So, I do think we'd be closer to answers if we introspected as Muslims rather than shifted the discourse. Because it is this shift in discourse that is currently drip-feeding the radicalization we see and the ugly actions we see forthcoming from extremists and terrorists.

So, I'd say we are ultimately responsible. Because honestly, I don't think Allah SWT is specifically looking to the actions of "the West" but looking at our [Muslim people's] actions and finding them short and thereby not sending us the kind of heavenly support that would ensure that Muslims find peace and security.

Just my thoughts.

:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Vision
Unfortunately it actually is 'us V them'. The west are the aggressors and have been since the fall of the ottoman khilafah, they have too often created 'puppet monsters' and put them in power of Muslim majority countries only to dispose of them when it suits them.

They are the ones who are ultimately responsible for angering Muslims by waging war against the average Iraqi, Afghani, Palestinian Muslim.

The truth is not radical
Reply

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Abz2000
12-04-2015, 01:35 AM
Next time ya see pam or rob, tell them to repent.
Reply

MuslimInshallah
12-04-2015, 01:36 AM
Assalaamu alaikum,


(musingly) I heard a talk by Tariq Ramadan recently, and he quoted someone saying (from memory, sorry if I err): the reason we were colonized, was because we were colonisable. Tariq then went on to say that he felt that this observation could be extended, and he said that the reason we have corrupt societies, is because we are corruptible.


May Allah, the Victory Giver, Help us to transform our hearts.
Reply

MuslimInshallah
12-04-2015, 01:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vision
it actually is 'us V them'.

Assalaamu alaikum Vision,


(mildly) Who exactly is "us" and who is "them"?


May Allah, the Generous, Forgive us.
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 02:05 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Why should what they say matter at all? Are Islamophobes new to our world? And were they birthed in modern times? No, only the term "Islamophobia" is relatively new as it was coined in 1990s. However, Islamophobes are not new at all.

Think Abu Jahl.

Pam and Rob, as you call them, are still gazillion times better than Abu Jahl who didn't simply stop at vilification of Islam or Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him).

Abu Jahl went as far as physical torture and conspiring extremist plots to kill Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him).

And again, why do you continue to lump me in with Islamophobes as if I'm on a first-name basis with them? Because you don't like what I say? Well, tough - deal with it! And for God's sake sake, grow up! FYI: You're not a little kid anymore, and I'm getting a little tired of your words almost always sounding like you're either on the verge of throwing a tantrum or in the throes of one.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Next time ya see pam or rob, tell them to repent.
:wa:
Reply

Abz2000
12-04-2015, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum,


(musingly) I heard a talk by Tariq Ramadan recently, and he quoted someone saying (from memory, sorry if I err): the reason we were colonized, was because we were colonisable. Tariq then went on to say that he felt that this observation could be extended, and he said that the reason we have corrupt societies, is because we are corruptible.


May Allah, the Victory Giver, Help us to transform our hearts.
That logic doesn't apply to all situations, you can't say you were unlawfully oppressed, murdered, stolen from or robbed because you were oppressable, murderable, steal-fromable or robbable, it works internally and in society. And when some shill tells you that you should just walk aright yourself and that a person doesn't have the right to tell another to repent while they're headed to hell, you know they're shilling and ought to repent or go jump off a cliff.
And if Tarik Ramadan regularly condemns armed Islamic uprisings and revolution as extremism, and says that the debauched French government doesn't have a right to kill unarmed Muslims who aren't working to establish Islam, but does have a right to kill armed Muslims who are establishing Islam, then tells people that it's Muslims' own fault for being colonisable, you'll know that he's either seriously misguided, or a shill Uncle Tom like Quilliam's Majid Nawaz too.

Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.
Reply

IslamicRevival
12-04-2015, 02:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism:

:sl:

Bro Vision, thank you for responding: I appreciate your input.

That said, apologies in advance, as I am inclined to respectfully disagree with you.

To be honest, I think it is all of us [humanity] versus shaitaan (satan).

Even leaving aside though, I'll share my thoughts on this matter and hope they are coherent enough to follow (and apologies in advance if they're not):

In the famous Battle of Badr, Muslims were outnumbered yet Allah SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) supported them with angels because they were believers with taqwa (God-consciousness), and their beautiful intentions and actions were in conformity with the teachings of Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him). Today, Muslims are Masha-Allah (as God willed) some almost 2 billion strong, yet where is that support from Allah SWT? In fact, an astonishing story relays that when a pious Muslim some centuries ago set out to fight on the side of Muslims in a battle, he saw a sight that stopped him in his tracks: The angels were siding with the unbelievers creating terror in the hearts of Muslims. Even watching the geopolitical situations unfold in our world today, I find that the support of Allah SWT is simply not there with the Muslims.

Also, as contemporary Muslims, I wonder why we are so quick to criticize and blame Western governments or non-Muslims without realizing that this was not the the mindset or behavior of early Muslims. Early Muslims knew what the majority Muslims of our time seem not to realize in our time: Early Muslims knew that Allah only appoints leaders over humanity on earth that we, the humanity, earn through our internal condition, that is, intentions and individual and collective actions. Therefore, criticizing governments for their bad policies or actions is ineffective because the American government is perfect for the American people, the Russian government is perfect for the Russian people, and the Pakistani government is perfect for the Pakistani peoples. Because humanity our time is at the lowest dregs of spiritual fulfillment of our primoridal covenant with Allah SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) to obey Him, Allah is appointing unjust ones over us, and no one may correct the matter because that is Divine Will.

Also, what about what happened during the time of Caliphate of Umar radiyallaahu anhu (may God be pleased with him)? During a battle, Muslim warriors found themselves losing to their enemies. So, what did Umar radiyallaahu anhu (may God be pleased with him) say to the Muslims? Did he say to the Muslims that the non-Muslims were evil or oppressive or responsible for us [Muslims] losing? No. Umar radiyallaahu anhu (may God be pleased with him) asked them to make sure they were still practicing on the actions from the sunnah (prophetic footsteps). They realized that they had not been using miswaak. So, they all banded together and started using miswaak again. Just at the sight of this action, the enemy camp fled believing that the Muslim warriors were sharpening their teeth to eat them. (Lol.) Anyhoo, I think you'll understand that the point I'm trying to make: Muslims themselves, due to their internal spiritual condition, have invited a lack of support from Allah SWT, because as you and I both know that the almost 2 billion Muslims are not even a hairbreadth's close to satisfying all the 5 pillars of Islam due to our general lack of taqwa (God-consciousness) and love of dunya (world).

So, I do think we'd be closer to answers if we introspected as Muslims rather than shifted the discourse. Because it is this shift in discourse that is currently drip-feeding the radicalization we see and the ugly actions we see forthcoming from extremists and terrorists.

So, I'd say we are ultimately responsible. Because honestly, I don't think Allah SWT is specifically looking to the actions of "the West" but looking at our [Muslim people's] actions and finding them short and thereby not sending us the kind of heavenly support that would ensure that Muslims find peace and security.

Just my thoughts.

:wa:
Assalamualaikum. As Muslims, we are responsible for the suffering of the ummah however I do believe we need to remain balanced and point out western hypocrisy when appropriate, we cannot simply brush it under the carpet whilst our fellow Muslims are terrorised all around the world.

We do have to ask why vulnerable Muslims are going abroad to fight a fake unislamic jihad. Why are they so easily duped but we also need to ask Why is the world silent when France bombs Syria with the blessing of the west but when they are hit back the world wakes up with stupid hashtags on social media, a flurry of condemnations and one minute silences for its victims.. It does not make sense, have they forgotten about the thousands already killed in Syria? Where's the condemnation there? And in a mind of a vulnerable ignorant Muslim it's a trigger and can lead to radicalization.

We have to tackle the problem from its roots. And the roots of radicalization in today's world is unfortunately made in the western world although I do agree as an ummah we are spiritually detached from our Deen and its no doubt had a knock on effect around the world. Allah is indeed the most just.
Reply

IslamicRevival
12-04-2015, 02:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Vision,


(mildly) Who exactly is "us" and who is "them"?


May Allah, the Generous, Forgive us.
Assalamualaikum

I don't know who is 'us' anymore, I suppose its the true mujahideen wherever they may be, IE the ordinary man who is defending his people within the principles of Islam.

Ameen.
Reply

Abz2000
12-04-2015, 04:20 AM
I just took this clip out from the documentary i posted on the other thread, may Allah guide scahill to Islam, i really found his book on blackwater informative, some government shill who tried to befriend me borrowed it and disappeared when i started to give him the cold shoulder, took a few of my best books aswell.

Reply

syed_z
12-04-2015, 05:31 AM
MashA'Allah very nice thread and JazakAllah khayr for sharing your thoughts brothers and sisters.


I would like to thank sister Search for opening this thread and sharing her thoughts.



format_quote Originally Posted by Vision
The west are the aggressors and have been since the fall of the ottoman khilafah, they have too often created 'puppet monsters' and put them in power of Muslim majority countries only to dispose of them when it suits them.

They are the ones who are ultimately responsible for angering Muslims by waging war against the average Iraqi, Afghani, Palestinian Muslim.

The truth is not radical

Brother Vision thanks for your thoughts. I very much accept the fact that even though what you're saying did occur like the breakup of the Khilafah and attacks on Muslim countries. Yet, again if you analyze that even though those events did take place, it was the Muslims who helped their fulfillment.


The Breakup of the Khilafah couldn't have succeeded had it not been for the Young Turkish Movement inside Caliphate that started to protest against the Ottoman Caliphate and was later used in the breakup of Khilafah. It was their own Muslim Turkish leader of secular thought, Ataturk who broke up the Caliphate and established the Modern Secular Turkey and helped kept it in place.

Had it not been for the Najdi Dawah/Salafi Wahabis and their alliance with the House of Saud, the Ottomans wouldn't have lost control of Hijaz and Saudi Arabia. Today it is the same thought that has spread its violent literalist interpretation of the Holy Scriptures which is causing a chaos in this Ummah in the face of Daesh, Al Qaeda and other Khawarij mentality movements in Pakistan and North Africa.

Iraq was attacked because Iraq attacked Iran - and Iran never started the war - it was Iraq who did on the instigation of Saudi Arabia and GCC states because revolution of Iran was an anti monarchical revolution which brought down a King called Shah of Iran, without any terrorist violence. Thus threatening their kingdoms. So what the GCC rulers did next? Sought Fatwa from Wahabi Scholars that Shias are Kuffar! The effect of that Fatwa spread like Fire in my country, Pakistan. Sectarian Violence spread..... next thing you know we're bleeding because of this nonsense even till today.

Narrated by Ibn Umar: The Prophet (sallalahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings on our Sham (Syria) and our Yemen. People said: Our Najd (Najd is that part of Saudi Arabia from which the Saudi rulers have originated). The Prophet again said: O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings on our Sham and Yemen. They said again: Our Najd as well. On that the Prophet said: There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there (i.e., Najd) will come out the side of the head of Satan.” (Sahih, Bukhari)

...in another narration it is the Horn of Satan. Horn also means Qarn and which also means Age/Era. Najdi Dawah and House of Saud emerged from Najd! The age of Shaytan has truly appeared in the face of Wahhabi Alliance with House of Saud declaring every one kafir who don't agree to them.... sheer ignorance that is!



The Afghan problem is another one. When Soviets left the Afghans killed each other for a decade and then Taliban took over. The Taliban were ignorant of many things required in the leadership and they suffered because of that. They suffered because of their own ignorance. They thought that Khawarij are actual Mujahideen, a mistake they made which they regret even up till today. Because of their support in the past of these Khawarij terrorist groups, Afghanistan is still under occupation.



Look at the state of Libya. Its worst now, it has not established government in place. All Muslim countries tried to overthrow Libyas Gaddafi and made Libya's condition worst....

Turkey sends navy to enforce Libyan blockade, will control Benghazi airport
Turkey imposed a naval blockade
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...357_03_29.html

Why Was Doha Such A Strong Supporter of The Rebels?

Qatar sent and trained army units to fight inside Libya to overthrow government
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...rvention-libya


This is all Muslim governments actions that brought Libya to its present state of violence! It was the oil in Libya that attracted them to overthrow governments after governments. Same is happening to Syria now. Its the oil and wealth again.

Turkey is the greatest supporter of ISIS and trades in oil with them.

https://www.rt.com/news/324668-istan...ents-isis-oil/

Qatar holds influence over groups in Syria.
Nusra releases 16 Lebanese troops, Baghdadi’s ex-wife

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/12/01/Al-Nusra-hands-over-body-of-executed-Lebanese-soldier-.html


Turkey and Qatar and Saudi Arabia control Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria! Its very evident by now and should be evident for all who have eyes to see.


Sayyidina Hudhaifa ibn Yaman reported that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said, “By Him Who has my soul in His hand, the Last Hour will not come before you kill your imam (leader), kill each other with your swords and the worst of you inherit your world (becoming your leaders).”

[Ibn Majah 4043]


...just analyze the ahadith.

....the worst are ruling us today. There is much I can write here on the politics of the Muslim world, but the point is to explain to you that the conditions are created by our own hands. We are our own enemy.
Reply

Eric H
12-04-2015, 07:58 AM
Greetings and peace be with you MuslimInshallah;

the reason we were colonized, was because we were colonisable.
the reason we have corrupt societies, is because we are corruptible.
And our leaders know this, and they manipulate us easily, see how Herman Goering talked about manipulating the German people into the Second World War...

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials


May Allah, the Victory Giver, Help us to transform our hearts.
Amen.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
Reply

sister herb
12-04-2015, 08:24 AM
The new technology like Internet makes hating so much easier and specially when you can spread your hate words wider than before. It wasn´t very effect at the last decades if you had to write your hate words to paper, send it to some newspaper and then wonder if they will publish it or not. Now it´s only few clicks you need to do and your anger message can spread to all over the world.

Hating is easier to us as well to the "others" which I mean islamophobics, racists and neo-nazis. What is same, I have found out, with both groups (we and them) is that people never like it if you label them to be part of those groups. Racist may write hate posts against other´s race or religion but take offence if someone then tell him its called racism what he is doing. Same with us - radicals never admit to be radicals. The other thing is same; when you try to talk with racist or radical about the tones of his messaging, he (or she) immediately will tell you about the crimes of those others and turns the conversation away from the matter itself. I have seen it´s sometimes (without mention anyone of course) quite typical in here too.
Reply

Abdul Emwazi
12-04-2015, 11:29 AM
The savage westerners that persecute Muslims deserve what they get. I myself have seen the savage nature of these people. Some call it radicalization...i call it a simple reaction to what has been done to Muslims over the many years passed.
Reply

Abdul Emwazi
12-04-2015, 11:34 AM
Look at what Israel is doing to Palestine. Look at what the US has been doing to the entire Middle East. Who is REALLY at fault here?
Reply

sister herb
12-04-2015, 12:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
Look at what Israel is doing to Palestine. Look at what the US has been doing to the entire Middle East. Who is REALLY at fault here?
There is nothing bad to protect the victims and fight against injustice as long you know who is the real enemy. I don´t think that sister who started this thread meant for example working for human rights and anti-war activism. But when those radicals start to think that all "others" are their potential enemies - just same if they really have anything to do with occupation in Palestine etc. or not.

I can simply compare radicalism of some Muslims to radicalism of those gangs whose beat unknown Muslims after some attacks (like in Paris). They see that every Muslims are their enemies and they have to revenge attacks of some others to every Muslims - just same if their victims then support kind of terrorist groups or not. This kind of behaving doesn´t help the victims of zionists at all, neither victims of the conflicts in the Middle East or other parts of the world. They only spread hate and violence and not only spread hate but also increase it.

Radicals - just same in which group they belong - are quite similar in everywhere with their thinking and behaving.
Reply

Abdul Emwazi
12-04-2015, 12:56 PM
The enemy are those who strike first. That is how it is no matter what the circumstance or location. The attacks on the innocent are uncalled for I must agree.
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 04:26 PM
:bism:

:sl:

Thank you, bro, again for sharing your thoughts. I agree with some points, and I respectfully disagree with other points.

Sure, I think we can point out how things can be flipped to show hypocrisy, but honestly, I think that game has its fair share on the Muslim side too; so, I don't know if that would be really productive.

That said, I don't honestly think it is necessary for regular Americans or Britons or French or what-have-you to make condemnations as if they are complicit in these government's actions because isn't that what Muslims say too when the reverse happens? That is, we say why should we make condemnations when some "Muslims" in the name of our religion undertake heinous actions? So, why should they apologize for their governments' heinous actions when the government might have been elected by them but despite the slogans about "for the people" don't always act in their interest?

Tyranny is the name of the game today, whatever government we have in place in whatever part of the world, because to be honest, regular people (99% of non-Muslims and Muslims) don't want war and would always rather have workable solutions that involve something of peace or a peaceable resolution, and yet the government doesn't seem to pay heed. I mean, you live in the U.K., and I'm sure you didn't want the MPs to take the decision to bomb Syria, but yet how much control were you able to exercise over the government's action? Nil. The same applies to non-Muslims too living in the West.

My point, bro, if rather obfuscated by my words in the earlier post, is that we do not control the governments, Muslim or non-Muslim in whatever part of the world, but we can in our lives make sure that we do not (inasmuch as possible) lump West as being this kind of super-villain so that gullible people are not then attracted to extremist philosophy that perverts Islam.

Thanks, again, for sharing your thoughts.

format_quote Originally Posted by Vision
Assalamualaikum. As Muslims, we are responsible for the suffering of the ummah however I do believe we need to remain balanced and point out western hypocrisy when appropriate, we cannot simply brush it under the carpet whilst our fellow Muslims are terrorised all around the world.

We do have to ask why vulnerable Muslims are going abroad to fight a fake unislamic jihad. Why are they so easily duped but we also need to ask Why is the world silent when France bombs Syria with the blessing of the west but when they are hit back the world wakes up with stupid hashtags on social media, a flurry of condemnations and one minute silences for its victims.. It does not make sense, have they forgotten about the thousands already killed in Syria? Where's the condemnation there? And in a mind of a vulnerable ignorant Muslim it's a trigger and can lead to radicalization.

We have to tackle the problem from its roots. And the roots of radicalization in today's world is unfortunately made in the western world although I do agree as an ummah we are spiritually detached from our Deen and its no doubt had a knock on effect around the world. Allah is indeed the most just.
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 04:33 PM
:bism:

:sl:

I think it is a very good point that you make, that is, that the ordinary person who is forced to defend his family, property, and life here in, say, like Syria is the true mujahid provided he does not transgress the proscribed limits in Islam. In the U.S. and I'm sure in the rest of the world, this action falls under the umbrella of self-defense.

That said, quite honestly, I really do think we need to make clear to all (Muslims and non-Muslims) that "us," in at least as far as Islam is concerned, does not comprise of people who deliberately would seek to harm innocent people irrespective of whatever their present justification for such actions.

:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Vision
Assalamualaikum

I don't know who is 'us' anymore, I suppose its the true mujahideen wherever they may be, IE the ordinary man who is defending his people within the principles of Islam.

Ameen.
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 04:36 PM
:bism:

:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
....the worst are ruling us today. There is much I can write here on the politics of the Muslim world, but the point is to explain to you that the conditions are created by our own hands. We are our own enemy.
@ Bolded: So true!

:wa:
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 04:38 PM
:bism:

Thank you, bro Eric H, for sharing your thoughts.

I agree with you, and thank you for sharing that quote from the Nuremberg trials.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you MuslimInshallah;



And our leaders know this, and they manipulate us easily, see how Herman Goering talked about manipulating the German people into the Second World War...

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials




Amen.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 04:55 PM
:bism:

:sl:

That's a great point you're making, sis herb. Yes, the world today is so much different because a few clicks and like you said that angry message spreads in a few secs to the entire world.

Yes, you're right: Radicals do not admit they are radicals because of course (sarcasm) they're in completely the right and everybody else too blind or too stupid to see what they are seeing and agree with them. (Lol.)

Yes, turning the conversation to crimes is actually the focus of my thread, as I really think it is very a unhealthy indulgence and frankly one I'm starting to see we as Muslims can ill afford.

:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
The new technology like Internet makes hating so much easier and specially when you can spread your hate words wider than before. It wasn´t very effect at the last decades if you had to write your hate words to paper, send it to some newspaper and then wonder if they will publish it or not. Now it´s only few clicks you need to do and your anger message can spread to all over the world.

Hating is easier to us as well to the "others" which I mean islamophobics, racists and neo-nazis. What is same, I have found out, with both groups (we and them) is that people never like it if you label them to be part of those groups. Racist may write hate posts against other´s race or religion but take offence if someone then tell him its called racism what he is doing. Same with us - radicals never admit to be radicals. The other thing is same; when you try to talk with racist or radical about the tones of his messaging, he (or she) immediately will tell you about the crimes of those others and turns the conversation away from the matter itself. I have seen it´s sometimes (without mention anyone of course) quite typical in here too.
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 05:01 PM
:bism:

:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
The savage westerners that persecute Muslims deserve what they get. I myself have seen the savage nature of these people. Some call it radicalization...i call it a simple reaction to what has been done to Muslims over the many years passed.
Sorry, I'm a Westerner, and I do not understand what is exactly so "savage" in my nature.

Sorry, I completely disagree with you, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

What "savage" nature have you seen to which you're making this reference?

Please let's not pretend that if there is a savage nature, that Muslims are immune from this savagery, a la existence of Daesh.

I hope you know in Islam, the matter, that is, the "simple reaction" as you put it, has rules and proscriptions and limits? Please, I invite you to educate yourself before you support un-Islamic things: Jihad, Terrorism and Suicide Bombing: The Classical Islamic Perspective.

Thank you.

:wa:
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 05:11 PM
:bism:

:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
PIC
How about I give you another hadith (prophetic tradition) so that you know for sure that what Daesh is doing is also "tyranny" and there is no Caliphate until Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him)?

After me come caliphs, and after the caliphs come princes, and after princes, there will be kings and after the kings, there will be tyrants. And after the tyrants a man from My House will fill the earth with justice, and after him is al-Qahtani. By One who sent me with the Truth! Not a word less. (Kamz al-ummal hadith #38704.)
:wa:
Reply

Abdul Emwazi
12-04-2015, 10:25 PM
I believe you misunderstand me sister. I am a westerner also. I am referring to what the military has done in the middle east. I know very well everything the military has done due to the fact that I was there with them. I am not talking about the general population in the US, so please don't misunderstand me.
Reply

Search
12-04-2015, 10:31 PM
:bism:

:sl:

I apologize for misunderstanding you, bro.

Yes, I don't like generally from a worldly perspective any military campaigns that were undertaken as they worked to destabilize the Middle East.

Okay, bro, sorry, and thank you for clearing my misapprehension; I appreciate your input.

:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
I believe you misunderstand me sister. I am a westerner also. I am referring to what the military has done in the middle east. I know very well everything the military has done due to the fact that I was there with them. I am not talking about the general population in the US, so please don't misunderstand me.
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Abdul Emwazi
12-04-2015, 10:38 PM
I should have clarified better.
Reply

Zafran
12-05-2015, 03:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
....the worst are ruling us today. There is much I can write here on the politics of the Muslim world, but the point is to explain to you that the conditions are created by our own hands. We are our own enemy.
This is very true - Ultimately we are to blame. One cannot blame the west for the Taliban beating up women, or Isis taking sex slaves or Muslims killing each other and even invading each other. There are many issues that Muslims have screwed up on.
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Abdul Emwazi
12-05-2015, 04:04 AM
That's nonsense
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Abdul Emwazi
12-05-2015, 04:07 AM
The west is the cause for the destruction of entire nations. This is common knowledge known world wide. Your are throwing in sex slaves etc as ammunition against the Islamic state when millions of other countries an groups sell ppl everyday in almost all big cities worldwide.
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BlueOwl358
12-05-2015, 05:29 AM
Interesting...

I don't see the two sided mentality in most things, except a few. I also don't tend to see the point when people try to make two things appear contradictory. I shall make this clear. The world doesn't work in two dimensions. There are so many sides to every problem and dispute, and so many sides of reality. You can't group two things and expect them to fight against each other. This works especially in geopolitics. There are multiple sides to each situation that more or less effect the result. I don't see why it is better to blame one aspect of anything. The world is full of too many possibilities to make an "us vs them" argument. It is more like a complex 4d shape of shorts. This is my basic school of thought.

If you check out the Syrian war, there aren't two sides, it is an intricate scenario of detailed nonsense. Two sided wars haven't happened in a lot of time. There are multitudes of groups and peoples falling under different categories. Some are related and are close, and some aren't. Each nation or civilization has practically worked independently, depending on how wide that civilization has considered itself and what it encompasses. The point isn't to see who is fighting who, it is to see the bigger picture and realize all these independent scenarios and how they related to each other. The world is more subjective than it is objective. In the end, it will be individuals that will be judged, people that will be judged, it will be nations that will be judged, and it will be races that will be judged, and these categories will fall inside each other.

Moving on from that, who really caused the problem. What really happened here?

I believe it has been multiple factors contributing to one problem, just like any problem in reality. Western military aggression, combined with internal turmoil, and detachment from religion, has simultaneously affected us, i.e. The Ummah. The Ottomans didn't fall just because of the US and Britian trying to demolish it. It fell because it couldn't keep itself up. It was losing to independence and nationalist movements, It was losing in technology, to the war, to the Young Turks, and a bunch of stuff. Muslims did not feel attached to the Caliph just because of religious reasons, but also because it was the European power that wanted to help Muslims and the only Muslim nation in that theater. It was a natural alliance of heartfelt reasons. And then it was over, but it was ultimately a Turk who stopped Ottoman power, even if that power was symbolic.

What I am trying to say is practically this, things don't fail because of single factors, they fail because they have been abandoned by the things closest to them, that affect them the most. It is God that has the final word on everything, and He makes things happen in a way that make sense, scientifically and reasonably, even if it is beyond us. The failure happened because of so many reasons, and the corruption of so called Muslim nations is included among that, as well as US military involvement (I wonder what Sanders does about that). Who is to blame? Both things, but the involvement of one doesn't minimize the effects of the other.

Thauban reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake. And I have seen its eastern and western ends. And the dominion of my Ummah would reach those ends which have been drawn near me and I have been granted the red and the white treasure and I begged my Lord for my Ummah that it should not be destroyed because of famine, nor be dominated by an enemy who is not amongst them to take their lives and destroy them root and branch, and my Lord said: Muhammad, whenever I make a decision, there is none to change it. I grant you for your Ummah that it would not be destroyed by famine and it would not be dominated by an enemy who would not be amongst it and would take their lives and destroy them root and branch even if all the people from the different parts of the world join hands together (for this purpose), but it would be from amongst them, viz. your Ummah, that some people would kill the others or imprison the others. (Sahih Muslim 2889)
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Abz2000
12-05-2015, 05:52 AM
Hnce the logic of pronouncing takfeer upon munafiqs that pose as members of the Muslim Ummah in order to ruin it. And for those whom it is difficult to tell, Allah swt knows them well.
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ajr
12-05-2015, 06:32 AM
Why radicalized? Why not just be sick and tired of ****crap....Its equivalent to calling a muslim ''moderate'' which means he follows the west agenda and falls for the western lie.

This is a war on Islam sugar-coated by the word terrorism. Throw that word into the equation and we got sympathisers with the west. If i may...

It is interesting that the person that came up with the suggestion that it be called ‘’War on Terrorism’’ is a ‘’scholar’’
It was first phrased ‘’War on Islam’’ (I wonder what many of the muslims would have done and said had they gone forth with that phrasing)

Can you imagine one of the Sahaba sitting comfortably in a land of kuffar listening to them decide to attack Muslims and not do anything about it? Can you imagine them just going around talking to people expressing words of anger and telling people to pray for those Muslims and then going back to their homes to sit? Can you? Never!
We always hear people claim to be Salafiyyah this and that, truth is it's a delusion. People are Salafiyyah in their heads but not their limbs. We are far from the Qur'aan and Sunnah - far!

I read through many threads on this forum, it baffles me, how so many fall victim to the media and even some scholars. To say fear Allah, is an insult...It becomes ''how dare this person tell me'' so the comeback would be snotty and snide...

Its rather best if we start asking why there is this kind of attacks, this world is slowly coming to an end, maybe no one cares to realize that, but thats maybe because you are illusioned by the trinkets of the world...

Quran and Sunnah is what the Prophet SAW left behind, so aren’t we governed by it? The first thing the Nabi SAW done after his hijrah is the establishment of the khilafah in Madina? Isn’t? It was vital infact. So how many would say that the Quraish wasn’t impressed with that? To clarify, the Quraish being the enemies of Islam. You think they sat ideally saying ''oh Muhammad, is starting an Islamic state, how nice for him and his believers, lets leave him in Madina to do what he wants, and we can stay here in Makkah and live our lives. No on the contrary they were irate by that. So lets fast-forward a thousand years and we faced with much the same. Its not terrorism your governments fear, its Islam. They know all too well the outcome, they know Hadith and Quran far better than you and i, so they plot and they scheme because of arrogance, they believe they can defeat Allah.

We might not all have the same idea on this forum, some will call it terrorism, some will call it un islamic, some will say not in my name. But for all those somes...the Quran and Sunnah is clear

The Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allah wills it to be. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be the khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology. And it will last for as long as Allah wills it to last. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be biting kingship, and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be tyrannical (forceful) kingship and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then He will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be a khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology.

Reported in the Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya’laa, and Ibn Hibbaan. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3341) declared Saheeh by Imam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

So we went through every phase of the hadith…yes/no? We have the tyrannical kings among us, or are you going to deny the hadith?

Problem with that is, your governments are well versed in that hadith, therefore they plot and plan.
Your governments use technology to their advantage, no? They propagate “WAR ON TERROR’’ via this technology…yes/no?
It becomes a problem when someone else does it? Explain to me the logic in that?
The age old adage comes to mind…’’whats good for the goose is good for the gander’’

Complete double standards on the part of muslims…your lack in brotherhood is undeniable.
Your governments have openly declared that they will use media to defame the ‘’Islamic Caliphate’’ (which they use – they actually do call them the Islamic State)
So if they refer to them as such, whats the muslims problem? Have you been so media raped that you now suffer stockholm syndrome?

You fail to acknowledge that when you slander and attack you are doing it to yourselves, because you fail to adhere to Quran and Sunnah…and you walk a fine line by denying Allah. (and moderates don’t like hearing this) FACT!!

When an Imam/Sheikh don’t sing the same tune their sheikh sings then he becomes and extremist/radicalist/terrorist.

I wonder why they all end up in jail, if what they speak is ‘’crap’’ ….there is Fear Allah and then there is lip service…

Why are we so quick to support these puppet governments?

We await Imam Mahdi and Isa (as), hadith tells us if you see the army of the black flag even if you have to crawl over ice to join that army, (why crawl over ice) because it will be very hard indeed to join that army…(why stop the people that want to go there?) If all your governments are upon haq then clearly they would certainly defeat them even if they were many in numbers, no?
Why even throw these people in jail? Your governments are upon haq, why go to such lengths to mark them as ‘’terrorists’’…oh I see, they are an open threat to the respective governments, but why? Maybe because they actually do know the Quran and Sunnah? Could it be?

But you don’t have to believe me, you can sit where you are and wait for everything to unfold and slander and attack from the comfort of your homes. See evidence can be given to everyone and they will still deny it based on indoctrination or clear kufr

And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, but turns away from them forgetting what (deeds) his hands have sent forth. Truly, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this (the Qur'an), and in their ears, deafness. And if you (O Muhammad SAW) call them to guidance, even then they will never be guided. #Quran 18:57

We are reminded in the Quran that we should not feel sorrow for the unbelievers or grief…

What has the world done to help Palestine? In all these years, with every peace talk, with every western leader that has come and gone, what was accomplished? Talks, talks, talks…and the bombs just continue to drop on them, such a small country and they couldn’t accomplish anything…

You really want to cry or rather sing the same tune? Your governments are the peace keepers/enforcers? (laughable)
You pay jizyah to your governments to Fight the war on terrorism, you actually contribute to the killing of Syrians, Iraqis, Libyans etc etc then you start a thread and say ‘’no to the war on Syria’’? Im left baffled…Do you think your tax money is for the building of roads, schools bridges etc in your countries? Either you naïve or you clearly upon kufr. You justify why you pay these taxes, yet you will slander the Islamic state for implementing jizyah, or completely say that they are not an Islamic state…either way, you justify your governments attack on them…So again you don’t fear Allah?

You make duah for Allah to destroy muslims but you don’t make duah for Allah to destroy the kafir system? The hypocrisy in that is astonishing. Again you don’t fear Allah…
Instead of working to rectify whatever you feel is wrong with the Caliphate as the west calls them, you choose to offer a duah for their demise? And I suppose this is Islam.
It has been narrated by Abu Huraira that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Banu Isra'il were ruled over by the Prophets. When one Prophet died, another succeeded him; but after me there is no prophet and there will be caliphs and they will be quite large in number. His Companions said: What do you order us to do (in case we come to have more than one Caliph)? He said: The one to whom allegiance is sworn first has a supremacy over the others. Concede to them their due rights (i.e. obey them). God (Himself) will question them about the subjects whom He had entrusted to them. Sahih Muslim Book 020, Hadith Number 4543
But here on dunya, you all seem to wana take that role, you wana question his authority, (judge, jury and executioner) hip hip hooray for these muslims…
You will sing a tune that they aren’t muslim, therefore they should be destroyed. So how is the kafir muslim? Why does the kufr system thrive, coz we have people such as yourselves promoting it knowingly or unknowingly.

One person states that these men work for the Saud regime (laughable) yet the Saud has the biggest army on the ground in the region (40 000 men)… really open your eyes…to use that hadith as reference is really weak on your part to justify your slander.

Muslims need to realize that this is not a war on terror like the governments like portraying, but a war on Islam, which means it’s a war on YOU, the sooner you realize it the sooner we can make taubah for denying Allah!!!
What you fail to realize as muslims is, they are slowly making you disbelievers, you stand for kufr and deny Islam
Allah reminds us in the Quran that the disbelievers will never be satisfied with you until you follow their way. Infact it’s a stern warning…
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper. #Quran 2:120

(This ayah here being proof, refer to Quran 18:57… yet you will deny it, because Allah has set veils upon your hearts, because you don’t see what deeds your hands have sent forth (jizyah to kufr governments) killing of those innocent people that you claim to honor, so now you sign petitions to stop the bombings, even though your hands are already covered in blood.


Fi amanillah
Reply

DanEdge
12-05-2015, 06:48 AM
Greetings,

Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion. I have been following it with interest. I don't have much to say about it at present, but BlueOwl's post most closely resembles my thoughts.

Thanks again to all who took their time and minds to engage in rational discussion.

--Dan Edge
Reply

Abdul Emwazi
12-05-2015, 07:44 AM
AJR really broke it down and contributed alot. She is very intelligent and knows what she is talking about.
Reply

syed_z
12-05-2015, 09:10 AM
Your post is a typical example of misinterpretation of ahadith and the Quran Verses.


format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
Can you imagine one of the Sahaba sitting comfortably in a land of kuffar listening to them decide to attack Muslims and not do anything about it? Can you imagine them just going around talking to people expressing words of anger and telling people to pray for those Muslims and then going back to their homes to sit? Can you? Never!
Yes absolutely. The conflict in Middle East is not of a Muslim VS Non Muslim, it is of a global nature, Muslims and Non Muslims fighting each other over regional and political ambitions. Unfortunately the ground is Middle East and its a majority Muslim region. When the first Fitnah struck the Ummah after the murder of Uthman Ibn Affan (R.A), many companions stayed away from the conflict that was taking place among the Muslims. They stayed aloof completely and led a life of seclusion. They didn't want themselves to be killed nor did they want any innocent blood on their hands. Thousands of Muslims died when fighting each other..... so you miss the point, that the Sister opened this thread for i.e. Muslims Killing Each other and acting crazy.... in such times you stay home, whether we're in the West or East, you don't join Fitnah....

format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
Quran and Sunnah is what the Prophet SAW left behind, so aren’t we governed by it? The first thing the Nabi SAW done after his hijrah is the establishment of the khilafah in Madina? Isn’t? It was vital infact. So how many would say that the Quraish wasn’t impressed with that? To clarify, the Quraish being the enemies of Islam. You think they sat ideally saying ''oh Muhammad, is starting an Islamic state, how nice for him and his believers, lets leave him in Madina to do what he wants, and we can stay here in Makkah and live our lives. No on the contrary they were irate by that.

The Prophet (SallAllahu Alaihi Wassallam) never established or enforced Islamic State on people of Madinah, the majority of whom weren't even Muslim. Rather he created the democratic constitution of Madinah State. He was in fact the 1st person in the history of mankind to teach the world how to establish a state with Human Rights for all communities which the West learned and today calls a democracy. The following should be understood very well by Muslims and Non Muslims:

The Constitution of Madinah ﺻﺤﻴﻔﺔ , ﺍﳌﺪﻳﻨﻪ Sahīfat al-Madīna, also known as the Charter of Madinah, a political-constitutional document, was drafted by the Holy Prophet Muhammad . The most widely read version of the Constitution is found in the pages of Ibn Ishaq's 24 ﺍﺑﻦ ﺇﺳﺤﺎﻕ Sīrah Rasūl Allāh ﺳﲑﺓ ﺭﺳﻮﻝ ﺍﷲ (Life of the Messenger of God. It is the first written constitution in the world for the multi-religious ten thousand-strong citizens of the city-state of Madinah. The claim that it was the first written constitution in the world is not a biased exaggeration. Aristotle's 25 (384 BC – 322 BC) Constitution of Athens, written on papyrus, discovered by an American missionary in Egypt in 1890 CE and published in 1891 CE, was not a constitution, but an account of the constitution of the city-state of Athens. The Madinah Charter is the first, and in this it preceded the American Constitution of 1787 CE, by more than a thousand years! It also preceded the English feudal bill of rights, the Magna Carter of 1215, by almost six centuries! It constituted a formal agreement between Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Madinah, including Muslims, Jews, and pagans. The document was drawn up with the explicit concern of bringing to an end the bitter inter tribal fighting. To this effect it instituted a number of rights and responsibilities for the Muslim, Jewish, and pagan communities of Madinah bringing them within the fold of one community—the Ummah.

(Madinah to Karbala - Chapter Constitution of Madinah - Sheikh Irshad Soofi)

...I have all 62 Articles of that Charter which I'm sure if you don't find online (thru Sheikh Google) then I can certainly list them here. They are clear evidence of how a democratic government was formed back then. Obviously later the pagans accepted Islam and Jews violated the constitution which led to their expulsion and naturally the majority being all Muslim, enforced the Islamic Law Shariah.

format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
The Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allah wills it to be. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be the khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology. And it will last for as long as Allah wills it to last. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be biting kingship, and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be tyrannical (forceful) kingship and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then He will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be a khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology.

Reported in the Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya’laa, and Ibn Hibbaan. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3341) declared Saheeh by Imam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

So we went through every phase of the hadith…yes/no? We have the tyrannical kings among us, or are you going to deny the hadith?

When you quote complete hadith, then we can easily understand whether this Foolish Man called Baghdadi and his so called Euphoric Islamic state is even an actual one?...

“The period of Prophethood will remain among you so long as Allah wills, then He shall cause it to end. After that, there will be Khilafah among you on the pattern of Prophethood, and this will last as long as Allah wills, and then He shall cause it to end. After that, there will be a reign of oppressive monarchy/tyrants, and this will also last as long as Allah wills, and then He shall cause it to end. After that there will be a period of enslavement, and this will last as long as Allah wills, then He shall cause it to end. Finally, there will again be Khilafah on the pattern of Prophethood.” (Musnad Ahmad on the authority of Nauman Ibn Bashir)

...you missed the underlined part of enslavement. The Tyrant Kings were the Kings of Mughal Empire, Seljuk Empire, Safwi Dynasty, Ottoman Caliphs. Abu Bakr Baghdadi's so called Caliphate is in times of when entire Ummah is in enslavement. The refugees fleeing from his Caliphate are fleeing for their lives and it is an Islamic Caliphate?? Are poor supposed to be protected and helped by the Caliphate or flee from it?

The Caliphate of Imam Mahdi has not been restored. It would be ignorant to consider this lunatic's 'Caliphate' to be a part of Imam Mahdi's rule.


format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
You pay jizyah to your governments to Fight the war on terrorism, you actually contribute to the killing of Syrians, Iraqis, Libyans etc etc then you start a thread and say ‘’no to the war on Syria’’? Im left baffled…Do you think your tax money is for the building of roads, schools bridges etc in your countries? Either you naïve or you clearly upon kufr. You justify why you pay these taxes, yet you will slander the Islamic state for implementing jizyah, or completely say that they are not an Islamic state…either way, you justify your governments attack on them…So again you don’t fear Allah?
When you live in a country, you pay taxes, you don't dodge and cheat and corrupt. A Muslim never dodges and cheats. A Muslim is a man of principles.... he or she pays the government you live under, especially if they're providing you food, safety, security, education, health, etc etc. A Muslim is honest in all his or her dealings. Regardless of what that government does to that money is their problem. If we cheat them of their taxes and call it Islam then we're treacherous.


format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
What you fail to realize as muslims is, they are slowly making you disbelievers, you stand for kufr and deny Islam
Allah reminds us in the Quran that the disbelievers will never be satisfied with you until you follow their way. Infact it’s a stern warning…
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper. #Quran 2:120
Alhamdulillah....All Praise is due to Allah (swt). That is absolutely correct. It is a warning for Muslims so that they remain steadfast on Islam and not fall for some other way of life. This life is full of tests. Just like every other test such as wealth, children, fighting each other, Jews and Christians will also test us and we need to hold on to our faith. Allah (swt) does not forbid us to make friends with them...He (swt) is just warning us to be aware and not copy them....
(60:08)Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

(60:09) Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
Reply

ajr
12-05-2015, 09:28 AM
lol...



typical response...



format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
he or she pays the government you live under, especially if they're providing you food, safety, security, education, health, etc etc
Everything you mentioned Allah provides...tut tut tut...

Anyway, in the words of Imam Malik...

Imam Al- Shafi said:
Whenever any people of desires (heretics) came to Malik he would say to them, ''As for me, i am upon clarity as regards my religion. As for you, you are a doubter, go and argue with another doubter like yourself.''
Al-Dhahbi in Siyar A'lam Al-Nubala under the biography of Imam Malik
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LaSorcia
12-05-2015, 10:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
The west is the cause for the destruction of entire nations. This is common knowledge known world wide. Your are throwing in sex slaves etc as ammunition against the Islamic state when millions of other countries an groups sell ppl everyday in almost all big cities worldwide.
Just because other groups of people do evil, this does not justify other groups of people doing evil. Especially when we are supposed to be the people of God. Our response to evil should not be more of it.
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sister herb
12-05-2015, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by LaSorcia
Just because other groups of people do evil, this does not justify other groups of people doing evil. Especially when we are supposed to be the people of God. Our response to evil should not be more of it.
That´s very important to remember. If we take our habits from the evil people, we aren´t any better than them. Actually, we will be just as bad as those "others" are.
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Abz2000
12-06-2015, 12:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
Why radicalized? Why not just be sick and tired of ****crap....Its equivalent to calling a muslim ''moderate'' which means he follows the west agenda and falls for the western lie.

This is a war on Islam sugar-coated by the word terrorism. Throw that word into the equation and we got sympathisers with the west. If i may...

It is interesting that the person that came up with the suggestion that it be called ‘’War on Terrorism’’ is a ‘’scholar’’
It was first phrased ‘’War on Islam’’ (I wonder what many of the muslims would have done and said had they gone forth with that phrasing)

Can you imagine one of the Sahaba sitting comfortably in a land of kuffar listening to them decide to attack Muslims and not do anything about it? Can you imagine them just going around talking to people expressing words of anger and telling people to pray for those Muslims and then going back to their homes to sit? Can you? Never!
We always hear people claim to be Salafiyyah this and that, truth is it's a delusion. People are Salafiyyah in their heads but not their limbs. We are far from the Qur'aan and Sunnah - far!

I read through many threads on this forum, it baffles me, how so many fall victim to the media and even some scholars. To say fear Allah, is an insult...It becomes ''how dare this person tell me'' so the comeback would be snotty and snide...

Its rather best if we start asking why there is this kind of attacks, this world is slowly coming to an end, maybe no one cares to realize that, but thats maybe because you are illusioned by the trinkets of the world...

Quran and Sunnah is what the Prophet SAW left behind, so aren’t we governed by it? The first thing the Nabi SAW done after his hijrah is the establishment of the khilafah in Madina? Isn’t? It was vital infact. So how many would say that the Quraish wasn’t impressed with that? To clarify, the Quraish being the enemies of Islam. You think they sat ideally saying ''oh Muhammad, is starting an Islamic state, how nice for him and his believers, lets leave him in Madina to do what he wants, and we can stay here in Makkah and live our lives. No on the contrary they were irate by that. So lets fast-forward a thousand years and we faced with much the same. Its not terrorism your governments fear, its Islam. They know all too well the outcome, they know Hadith and Quran far better than you and i, so they plot and they scheme because of arrogance, they believe they can defeat Allah.

We might not all have the same idea on this forum, some will call it terrorism, some will call it un islamic, some will say not in my name. But for all those somes...the Quran and Sunnah is clear

The Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allah wills it to be. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be the khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology. And it will last for as long as Allah wills it to last. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be biting kingship, and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be tyrannical (forceful) kingship and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then He will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be a khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology.

Reported in the Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya’laa, and Ibn Hibbaan. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3341) declared Saheeh by Imam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

So we went through every phase of the hadith…yes/no? We have the tyrannical kings among us, or are you going to deny the hadith?

Problem with that is, your governments are well versed in that hadith, therefore they plot and plan.
Your governments use technology to their advantage, no? They propagate “WAR ON TERROR’’ via this technology…yes/no?
It becomes a problem when someone else does it? Explain to me the logic in that?
The age old adage comes to mind…’’whats good for the goose is good for the gander’’

Complete double standards on the part of muslims…your lack in brotherhood is undeniable.
Your governments have openly declared that they will use media to defame the ‘’Islamic Caliphate’’ (which they use – they actually do call them the Islamic State)
So if they refer to them as such, whats the muslims problem? Have you been so media raped that you now suffer stockholm syndrome?

You fail to acknowledge that when you slander and attack you are doing it to yourselves, because you fail to adhere to Quran and Sunnah…and you walk a fine line by denying Allah. (and moderates don’t like hearing this) FACT!!

When an Imam/Sheikh don’t sing the same tune their sheikh sings then he becomes and extremist/radicalist/terrorist.

I wonder why they all end up in jail, if what they speak is ‘’crap’’ ….there is Fear Allah and then there is lip service…

Why are we so quick to support these puppet governments?

We await Imam Mahdi and Isa (as), hadith tells us if you see the army of the black flag even if you have to crawl over ice to join that army, (why crawl over ice) because it will be very hard indeed to join that army…(why stop the people that want to go there?) If all your governments are upon haq then clearly they would certainly defeat them even if they were many in numbers, no?
Why even throw these people in jail? Your governments are upon haq, why go to such lengths to mark them as ‘’terrorists’’…oh I see, they are an open threat to the respective governments, but why? Maybe because they actually do know the Quran and Sunnah? Could it be?

But you don’t have to believe me, you can sit where you are and wait for everything to unfold and slander and attack from the comfort of your homes. See evidence can be given to everyone and they will still deny it based on indoctrination or clear kufr

And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, but turns away from them forgetting what (deeds) his hands have sent forth. Truly, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this (the Qur'an), and in their ears, deafness. And if you (O Muhammad SAW) call them to guidance, even then they will never be guided. #Quran 18:57

We are reminded in the Quran that we should not feel sorrow for the unbelievers or grief…

What has the world done to help Palestine? In all these years, with every peace talk, with every western leader that has come and gone, what was accomplished? Talks, talks, talks…and the bombs just continue to drop on them, such a small country and they couldn’t accomplish anything…

You really want to cry or rather sing the same tune? Your governments are the peace keepers/enforcers? (laughable)
You pay jizyah to your governments to Fight the war on terrorism, you actually contribute to the killing of Syrians, Iraqis, Libyans etc etc then you start a thread and say ‘’no to the war on Syria’’? Im left baffled…Do you think your tax money is for the building of roads, schools bridges etc in your countries? Either you naïve or you clearly upon kufr. You justify why you pay these taxes, yet you will slander the Islamic state for implementing jizyah, or completely say that they are not an Islamic state…either way, you justify your governments attack on them…So again you don’t fear Allah?

You make duah for Allah to destroy muslims but you don’t make duah for Allah to destroy the kafir system? The hypocrisy in that is astonishing. Again you don’t fear Allah…
Instead of working to rectify whatever you feel is wrong with the Caliphate as the west calls them, you choose to offer a duah for their demise? And I suppose this is Islam.
It has been narrated by Abu Huraira that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Banu Isra'il were ruled over by the Prophets. When one Prophet died, another succeeded him; but after me there is no prophet and there will be caliphs and they will be quite large in number. His Companions said: What do you order us to do (in case we come to have more than one Caliph)? He said: The one to whom allegiance is sworn first has a supremacy over the others. Concede to them their due rights (i.e. obey them). God (Himself) will question them about the subjects whom He had entrusted to them. Sahih Muslim Book 020, Hadith Number 4543
But here on dunya, you all seem to wana take that role, you wana question his authority, (judge, jury and executioner) hip hip hooray for these muslims…
You will sing a tune that they aren’t muslim, therefore they should be destroyed. So how is the kafir muslim? Why does the kufr system thrive, coz we have people such as yourselves promoting it knowingly or unknowingly.

One person states that these men work for the Saud regime (laughable) yet the Saud has the biggest army on the ground in the region (40 000 men)… really open your eyes…to use that hadith as reference is really weak on your part to justify your slander.

Muslims need to realize that this is not a war on terror like the governments like portraying, but a war on Islam, which means it’s a war on YOU, the sooner you realize it the sooner we can make taubah for denying Allah!!!
What you fail to realize as muslims is, they are slowly making you disbelievers, you stand for kufr and deny Islam
Allah reminds us in the Quran that the disbelievers will never be satisfied with you until you follow their way. Infact it’s a stern warning…
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper. #Quran 2:120

(This ayah here being proof, refer to Quran 18:57… yet you will deny it, because Allah has set veils upon your hearts, because you don’t see what deeds your hands have sent forth (jizyah to kufr governments) killing of those innocent people that you claim to honor, so now you sign petitions to stop the bombings, even though your hands are already covered in blood.


Fi amanillah
I believe this lecture should be narrated at every mosque on the planet and in every language next Jumu'ah,
To think i had first assumed that the sister was just going through an angry twitter hype phase lol, may Allah reward you with protection and good reward in this world and in eternity ukhti.
Is it ok if i forward it ukhti? And make a few leaflets?
Reply

M.I.A.
12-06-2015, 12:41 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel...e_lions%27_den

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_in_Islam
Reply

Mr.President
12-06-2015, 12:43 AM
^ http://islamqa.info/en/5273
Reply

Search
12-06-2015, 07:20 AM
:bism:

:sl:

My responses are in green!

format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
Why radicalized? Why not just be sick and tired of ****crap....Its equivalent to calling a muslim ''moderate'' which means he follows the west agenda and falls for the western lie.

Disagree with you! I used to be one of the people who used to disagree with the labeling of Muslims as moderate or extreme because I used to believe that it is an Orientalist phenomena that seeks to divide Muslims into one camp or another when we're one Muslim ummah (nation). Today, I support this divisive terminology because unfortunately some Muslims are shifting from the Straight Path and deviating from the main, moderate line, and we need to distinguish between people are who are supporting falsehoold ("peverted Islam") versus people who are supporting the truth ("orthodox Islam"). Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) said to be on the middle way as asks the Quran also:
وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا
Wa kathalika ja`alnakum ummatan wasatan.
And thus have We willed you to be a community of the middle way. (Surat al-Baqarah, 2:143)


This is a war on Islam sugar-coated by the word terrorism. Throw that word into the equation and we got sympathisers with the west. If i may...

It is interesting that the person that came up with the suggestion that it be called ‘’War on Terrorism’’ is a ‘’scholar’’
It was first phrased ‘’War on Islam’’ (I wonder what many of the muslims would have done and said had they gone forth with that phrasing)

I'm not sure where you have received this information, but I'm discilined to immediately trust what you've written about the original phraseology "War on Islam" because I'm from the U.S., and I had not heard of anything like that having happened. I know that George Bush in 2001 used the word "crusade," which later he explained in a meeting with Shaykh Hamza Yusuf was a mistake on his part to have used that term, and he explained that he said the first word that came to his mind. He said the Pentagon didn't have theologians.

Can you imagine one of the Sahaba sitting comfortably in a land of kuffar listening to them decide to attack Muslims and not do anything about it? Can you imagine them just going around talking to people expressing words of anger and telling people to pray for those Muslims and then going back to their homes to sit? Can you? Never!

Sahaba (Compasions) radiyallahu anhum (may Allah be pleased with them) had sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) to guide them. Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) had wahi (divine revelation). Today, we do not have Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) to guide us except through the Islamic scholars who are famously said in a hadith (prophetic tradition) to stand as the inheritors of Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him). By ijma (consenus), Islamic scholars have said that the acts of terrorism perpetrated in our time such as that of organizations like Daesh, al-Qaeda, Boko Harma and are haram (forbidden). "My Ummah shall not agree upon error," said Prophet allalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him).

Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar radiyallahu anhu (may Allah be pleased with him) from Prophet allalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him), who said: "Verily my Ummah would not agree upon error and Allah's hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell" (see also Mishkat, 1/173).

It is important to note that this hadith (prophetic tradition) is in reference to the mujtahids (authoritative interpreter of the religious law of Islam), not a reference to laymen or run-of-the-mill scholars.

It is also clear from the hadith of At-Tirmidhi above that once the consensus is established (in any era), we are not free to dissent from it thereafter. Once consensus is established, we KNOW that that opinion is correct.

Terrorism/sucidie bombing is haram (forbidden) by ijma (conensus).


We always hear people claim to be Salafiyyah this and that, truth is it's a delusion. People are Salafiyyah in their heads but not their limbs. We are far from the Qur'aan and Sunnah - far!

True, majority of Muslims are far from peoples who are actively seeking to implement Quran and Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) in their own lives.

I read through many threads on this forum, it baffles me, how so many fall victim to the media and even some scholars. To say fear Allah, is an insult...It becomes ''how dare this person tell me'' so the comeback would be snotty and snide...

I love the phrase, "Fear Allah." However, I abhor people's use of the phrase as a weapon to lampoon another. Thus, my concern: Is the person who is saying "fear Allah" saying so out of self-righteous indignation to have someone to toe a self-drawn proscribed line or even a means of silencing the voice of dissent? Saying "fear Allah" is meaningless then. Because the originator of that phrase is saying so out of egoistic desire, not sincere concern for the welfare of the Muslim or non-Muslim to whom this is said. On whom are we first supposed to implement Islam? On ourselves! Maybe if the person who instead of asking others to "fear Allah" himself/herself feared Allah, then seeing him/her in that state, others would follow suit? Just a thought.

Its rather best if we start asking why there is this kind of attacks, this world is slowly coming to an end, maybe no one cares to realize that, but thats maybe because you are illusioned by the trinkets of the world...

True, we are in the Last Days as Prophet allalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
عن انس ابن مالك سمعت رسول الله يقول لاحدثنكم حديثا لا تجدون احدا يحدثكم به بعدي ان من اشراط الساعة ان يذهب العلم ويظهر الجهل ويشرب الخمر ويفشو الزنى ويقل الرجال وتكثر النساء حتى يكون قيما لخمسين امرأة رجل واحد
Anas ibn Malik radiyallahu anhu (may Allah be pleased with him) said, “I am going to tell you a Hadith that no one after me will tell you about. I heard it from the Prophet salallhu alayhi wasallam. Knowledge will go and ignorance will come up. Wine will be drunk and zina (adultery) will be everywhere. And there will be less men and more women. For fifty women there will be one man” (Bukhari and Muslim).

Of course, we have seen all of this happening as with each scholar's death in Islam, knowledge is lifted up. Of course, wine and premarital intimate relations are very common now around the globe. With exception of countries like China, the last part of the prophecy is either already true or coming true as well.

Quran and Sunnah is what the Prophet SAW left behind, so aren’t we governed by it? The first thing the Nabi SAW done after his hijrah is the establishment of the khilafah in Madina? Isn’t? It was vital infact. So how many would say that the Quraish wasn’t impressed with that? To clarify, the Quraish being the enemies of Islam. You think they sat ideally saying ''oh Muhammad, is starting an Islamic state, how nice for him and his believers, lets leave him in Madina to do what he wants, and we can stay here in Makkah and live our lives. No on the contrary they were irate by that. So lets fast-forward a thousand years and we faced with much the same. Its not terrorism your governments fear, its Islam. They know all too well the outcome, they know Hadith and Quran far better than you and i, so they plot and they scheme because of arrogance, they believe they can defeat Allah.

I'm sorry I do not believe that our American leaders or even most world governments fear Islam itself rather than terrorism, though that is arguably changed/changing now because of incidents of domestic terrorism like Paris Attacks, and thereby Islam and terrorism are now synonymous in even educated leaders' minds and vocabulary right now. Even previously, the world witnessed government leaderships waging wars doing so for reasons that were always more complex than bringing democracy or eradicating terrorist organizations in the Middle East or other parts of the world as propaganda seemed to suggest. I also do not accept that the powers-that-be know Quran and ahadith (prophetic traditions) better than us, though I can better accept that secular governments seek to defeat the inclusion and promotion of theologically-inspired philosophy in governmental ideology and traditions generally. I can accept that because originally America can be said to have been founded as a "Christian" nation as the land comprised of 13 colonies that belonged to the British Empire whose king presided over an imperial church and by extension British citizens in the colonies thereby lived under Christian rule. However, that has changed with taking God out of the equation with espousing of well-established legal principles like separation of church and state (which means secular states can no longer, for example, criminalize things like sodomy, something which doesn't align with Christian values).

We might not all have the same idea on this forum, some will call it terrorism, some will call it un islamic, some will say not in my name. But for all those somes...the Quran and Sunnah is clear

I agree the Quran and Sunnah (prophetic foosteps) are clear, though I'd make a caveat and say that people's understanding of it is not clear due to often not seeking clarity about this sacred knowledge from Islamic scholars.

The Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allah wills it to be. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be the khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology. And it will last for as long as Allah wills it to last. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be biting kingship, and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then Allah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be tyrannical (forceful) kingship and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then He will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be a khilafah upon the Prophetic methodology.

Reported in the Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya’laa, and Ibn Hibbaan. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3341) declared Saheeh by Imam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

Alhamdhullilah (praise, thanks, and credit to God) for this hadith (prophetic tradition). Yet do you know what this hadith actually means? Have you listened to a Islamic scholar explain it? Or have you read a scholarly book that has explained this hadith?

Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) had said: "After me come caliphs, and after the caliphs come princes, and after princes, there will be kings and after the kings, there will be tyrants. And after the tyrants a man from My House will fill the earth with justice, and after him is al-Qahtani. By One who sent me with the Truth! Not a word less." (Kamz al-ummal hadith #38704).

Yes, you are right. Today, tyrants are ruling the majority of the world. However, you make a key mistake in your interpretation because as Muslims we are not supposed to take one hadith (prophetic tradition) and reach whatever conclusion our minds would have us reach in regards to a major issue of fiqh involving serious matters like jihad which can only be undertaken under a valid Caliphate to which bayat (oath of allegiance) has been given by all Muslims. Also, scholars have already given the conditions of valid jihad, and I'm sorry, but ISIS does not fit that definition.


Problem with that is, your governments are well versed in that hadith, therefore they plot and plan.
Your governments use technology to their advantage, no? They propagate “WAR ON TERROR’’ via this technology…yes/no?
It becomes a problem when someone else does it? Explain to me the logic in that?
The age old adage comes to mind…’’whats good for the goose is good for the gander’’

Drone strikes and the like are also haram (forbidden). No doubt. That said, Muslims are not allowed to use the same kind of haram (forbidden) methodology in jihad that non-Muslim govenrments use. This type of mentality is actually probably very much falls under the category of imitating the kuffar (non-Muslims), something also which we have been warned against as Muslims in a hadith (prophetic tradition). So, as Muslims we cannot say, "What is good for the goose is good for the gander." Islam came to remove humanity from jahilliyah (ignorance), not increase us in it.

Complete double standards on the part of muslims…your lack in brotherhood is undeniable.
Your governments have openly declared that they will use media to defame the ‘’Islamic Caliphate’’ (which they use – they actually do call them the Islamic State)
So if they refer to them as such, whats the muslims problem? Have you been so media raped that you now suffer stockholm syndrome?

Lack of brotherhood in ummah ("Muslim nation" as a body) is also a observable phenomena; so, I will agree with you.

ISIS/Daesh/Islamic State (IS) is NOT the awaited Islamic Caliphate, and this is your dangerous projection of what you want to see in the Organization.

The Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "There will be a group of people at the end of time who are young and have foolish dreams. They speak from the words of the Best of the Creation (i.e. the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him's hadith). Their faith does not even rach their throats and they pass out of the religion like an arrow passes through its prey..." (Sahih Bukhari 8:51).

I now quote from a scholarly book on Armageddon:

"Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam said they have crazy dreams, foolish aspirations and fanciful imaginations (sufaha al-ahlam), which means they have distrubed minds and a lack of understanding. Despite this intellectual deficiency they speak from the sayings of Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam and they recite the Quran. People are fascinated by their speech, as they recite Quran and hadith for everything. On the Internet, they seem like scholars, throwing Quranic verses and hadiths right and left, using them to support their dreams and aspirations, such as the establishment of a utopian society or an Islamic state as they conceive it should be. At the time when the whole world is corrupted during the Last Days, these ignorant young people will come and talk about Islam.

"However, they are not wise, intelligent or even good believers. Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam continued saying, 'Their faith does not even reach their throats (i.e. it is nothing) and they pass out of the religion like an arrow passes through its prey.' This is what we are experiencing today. These youths recite the Quran and bring hadiths as evidence, but in an incorrect manner, and so derive their own rulings without any knowledge of the subject. They put things together as they like, to fit their needs. They do not even have a rudimentary background in Islamic knowledge and they use verses of the Quran which were meant for unbelievers out of context, applying them to believers. As mentioned before, the Khwaraij are not bound to a specific time, but are any and all who fall under that description by going out of the bounds of the religion, declaring Muslims as unbelievers. This is the methodology of the Khawarij in the Last Days was mentioned fourteen hundred years ago by Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam."

The books goes on to then discuss how the Khawarij are spreading their ideology, which I'm not detailing here because I want to quote the relevant part:

"All the while they are suppressing and concealing the truths of mainstream classical Islamic teachings, conspiring to silence anyone who speaks against their extremism. They are inheriting the intolerance and oftentimes violence, seen in the Khawarij of the past, killing Muslims and other innocent people who do not agree with their aberrant beliefs, egnaing in subterfuge in various countries where they have no right to do so. These youngsters around the world are brainwashed with qawl az-zur—the bearing of false fitness. They apply the Quran and hadiths in the wrong manner, and set off in pursuit of their wild dreams. The Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam described them precisely and foretold that they would reappear in the Last Dyas and this has come to pass."

You fail to acknowledge that when you slander and attack you are doing it to yourselves, because you fail to adhere to Quran and Sunnah…and you walk a fine line by denying Allah. (and moderates don’t like hearing this) FACT!!

How about you not tell us Muslims whether we are "denying Allah" or not as "FACT"? You're borderline passing takfir (declaring Muslim non-Muslim) when you have absolutely zero right and authority to do so. Do you have a sheikh (Islamic teacher)? Yes or no? I'm sorry, but you're not an Islamic scholar and your presumption here is offensive as to us "denying Allah" because so far your only qualification that I have come to glean from your post is that you have an Internet connection. How about you go study Islam under a sheikh? And I'm not telling you anything which I am myself not doing. So...


When an Imam/Sheikh don’t sing the same tune their sheikh sings then he becomes and extremist/radicalist/terrorist.

Yes, Alhamdhullilah (thanks, praise, and credit to Allah), I have a sheikh, and I feel blessed. I learnt law from law professors, and the same method applies to learning Islam: Islam should be learned from Islamic scholars. Yes, my sheikh Alhamdhullilah (thanks, praise, and credit to Allah) is moderate and balanced.

Someone can dance a jig to the song of the Khwaraij if they so will despite the stern prophetic warning, but then I and the rest of the world will label those people "extremist/radicalist/terrorist." Calling a chair "chair" is not an insult to the "chair," rather the applicable term for the item. So it goes also for the person who espouses philosophy that is extremist/radicalist/terrorist in nature.


I wonder why they all end up in jail, if what they speak is ‘’crap’’ ….there is Fear Allah and then there is lip service…

So, let me get this straight: You're making an assumption that people who are in jail are people who went to jail for speaking the "truth," actually, let me correct that, "the version of truth" you find acceptable to you. That's a big assumption. How about the people who went to jail are people who deserved to jail for inciting violence or concocting terrorist plots?

Yes, there is "fear Allah" and then there is lip service

"Do you command other people righteousness and forget your own selves" (2:44).

Yes, there is fear Allah and then there is lip service. Me? I don't believe ISIS is anything but Khwaraij.

However, if you truly believe as you do, why are you and Abz not in Syria? If I believed as you and Abz do, I'd walk over hot coals to get there to join ISIS.

Why then on the Internet talking to a "moderate" like me who is in the category of people who are presumably "denying Allah" which according to you is not your opinion but a "FACT?"

Why are we so quick to support these puppet governments?

Becuase even if they are tyrannical, which I agree they are in many respects with regards to their foreign policy, at least they do not pretend to say they are representing Islam and then act out the actions of "Khwaraij."

We await Imam Mahdi and Isa (as), hadith tells us if you see the army of the black flag even if you have to crawl over ice to join that army, (why crawl over ice) because it will be very hard indeed to join that army…(why stop the people that want to go there?) If all your governments are upon haq then clearly they would certainly defeat them even if they were many in numbers, no?

Yes, by all means, if you believe ISIS is the one to usher in the rule of Mahdi alayhis salaam, crawl over ice if you have to get to Syria. I believe ISIS is Khwaraij. So, all I wish is that either they come to sincere belief or they die, especially if the choice is between me or them.

Why shouldn't the governments stop people from joining ISIS? If you had a preventive measure to a problem, would you prefer dealing with a problem as a preventive measure or after the fact? That's just plain no logic to you saying what you did here.

No, the governments here are not on "haq" (truth). But then neither is ISIS.

Be assured ISIS will be defeated as they are NOT on any "haq" (truth), but what they are on is their petty delusion.

Why even throw these people in jail? Your governments are upon haq, why go to such lengths to mark them as ‘’terrorists’’…oh I see, they are an open threat to the respective governments, but why? Maybe because they actually do know the Quran and Sunnah? Could it be?

No, they are Khwaraij. How about you not assume they are on the Quran and Sunnah (prophetic tradition)?

To give further evidence why you should not assume, let me share a story:

A man came to Umar ibn al-Khattab rradiyallahu anhu (may Allah be pleased with him) and spoke in praise of another.

Umar asked him: “Are you his nearest neighbor such that you know his goings and his comings?”
“No.”
“Have you been his companion on a journey so that you could see evidence of his good character?”
“No.”
“Have you had dealings with him involving dinars and dirhams [money] which would indicate the piety of the man?”
“No.”
“I think you saw him standing in the mosque muttering the Quran and moving his head up and down?”
“Yes.”
“Go, for you do not know him...”
And to the man in question, Umar said, “Go and bring me someone who knows you.”
(quoted from Islam The Natural Way by Abdul Wahid Hamid, p. 66)

Have you read a recent NY Times article that came out about how these so-called men that you presume to be on "haq" are using Islam to distort well-established Islamic traditions like idda (waiting period) and haqooq al-ibad (human rights)? Read it.


But you don’t have to believe me, you can sit where you are and wait for everything to unfold and slander and attack from the comfort of your homes. See evidence can be given to everyone and they will still deny it based on indoctrination or clear kufr

You do know that there are six exceptions backbiting and slander, right? One of them is to warn the Muslims of evil, which is what I'm doing from my perspective. If you don't believe me about the Islamic exception, please go ahead and read, "When Is Backbiting Permissible?"

Frankly-speaking, you haven't provided any evidence, just conjectures.


And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, but turns away from them forgetting what (deeds) his hands have sent forth. Truly, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this (the Qur'an), and in their ears, deafness. And if you (O Muhammad SAW) call them to guidance, even then they will never be guided. #Quran 18:57

We are reminded in the Quran that we should not feel sorrow for the unbelievers or grief…

Love the Quran ayat here!

We should not feel sorrow or grieve for the unbelievers? Really?

My sheikh continues to teach that real faith is to honor all human beings. See, the thing about Quran? It's beautiful. People's interpretations of what is said in the Quran is through the prism of their own knowledge, understanding, and wisdom; scholars have all three. Laypersons, on the other hand, do not.

Allah SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) says, “Ya ayyuha’n-naas – o human beings. We have created you from male and female and We made you nations and tribes to know each other. The best among you are the most pious/righteous/sincere."

So Allah SubhanAllah wa Taala (Glorious and Exalted is God) is telling us through His Messenger, the Seal of Messengers, Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him), "O human being I am not differentiating. It was, “Ya ayyhuha’n-naas!” Allah SWT didn’t say, "Ayyuhal Muslimoon!” Allah SWT said, "O human beings!” That means Allah SWT is addressing everyone, not picking out. That means Allah SWT is saying, "You are Muslim - I am speaking to you. You are agnostic, I am speaking to you. You are secular, I am speaking to you. You are Hindu, I am speaking to you." And so on.

Allah SWT didn’t pick out anyone, but He said, "I made you from a man and woman and I made you tribes and communities."

Every nation is made of hundreds of "tribes." Allah wants people, whenever possible, to live in peace with one another, Muslim and non-Muslim. People today make a big mistake because they want to be judges of human being. Allah is The Judge. Our Creator is The Judge. We are not judges. Allah SWT judges everyone. We are human beings. We should judge ourselves only.

And what was Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) doing if not honoring humanity when he stood up for a non-Muslim funeral procession that was passing?

Also, how many times did Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) command us to be good to our neighbors?

Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) also said, "Son, if you are able, keep your heart from morning till night and from night till morning free from malice towards anyone; then he said, Oh! My son, this is one of my laws, and he who loves my laws loves me."

Islam is holistic, and it is beautiful, and being sharing in the grief or your neighbors and honoring their deceased is part of prophetic good manners because they too are Allah's creation and they are returning to Allah SWT, the Ultimate Judge.

My sheikh keeps reminding us adab (manners) before knowledge, adab (manners) before knowledge, adab (manners) before knowledge.


What has the world done to help Palestine? In all these years, with every peace talk, with every western leader that has come and gone, what was accomplished? Talks, talks, talks…and the bombs just continue to drop on them, such a small country and they couldn’t accomplish anything…

They couldn't accomplish anything because Zionism is a real movement. Shoudn't all of the repercussions of lacking a Caliphate have been deliberated prior to Arabs conspiring with the British to topple the Ottoman Empire?

You really want to cry or rather sing the same tune? Your governments are the peace keepers/enforcers? (laughable)
You pay jizyah to your governments to Fight the war on terrorism, you actually contribute to the killing of Syrians, Iraqis, Libyans etc etc then you start a thread and say ‘’no to the war on Syria’’? Im left baffled…Do you think your tax money is for the building of roads, schools bridges etc in your countries? Either you naïve or you clearly upon kufr. You justify why you pay these taxes, yet you will slander the Islamic state for implementing jizyah, or completely say that they are not an Islamic state…either way, you justify your governments attack on them…So again you don’t fear Allah?

I'm sorry to say that this is nonsensical as taxes also work to pay for construction projects as well, that is, when distributed to the individual states, though I do take your point as I know the government also uses that money to fund military expeditions in other parts of the world. The answer to your repetitive question is, "Yes, I fear Allah." But I do not fear you telling me that I do not fear Allah. As fas as slandering/backbiting is concerned, I've already answered you that it is not considered slandering/backbiting in Islam to warn Muslims of evil as that falls under the cases of exception.

You make duah for Allah to destroy muslims but you don’t make duah for Allah to destroy the kafir system? The hypocrisy in that is astonishing. Again you don’t fear Allah…
Instead of working to rectify whatever you feel is wrong with the Caliphate as the west calls them, you choose to offer a duah for their demise? And I suppose this is Islam.

To pray for the demise of oppressors is not not fearing Allah. Whatever is wrong with ISIS is too big for any one person to rectify in case you didn't already know: Some Muslims on social media have tried steering/keep trying to steer them in the right direction. To no avail. They do not listen. They will not listen.

Yes, in regards to the matter, this is Islam: To stop the opressor from oppressing if you can by your hand, and then if not, by your tongue if you can't. Or at leat hate it in the heart if none of those are possibilities. Because oppression is an evil.

Prophet sallahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever of you sees an evil must then change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then [he must change it] with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then [he must change it] with his heart. And that is the slightest [effect of] faith.”

It has been narrated by Abu Huraira that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Banu Isra'il were ruled over by the Prophets. When one Prophet died, another succeeded him; but after me there is no prophet and there will be caliphs and they will be quite large in number. His Companions said: What do you order us to do (in case we come to have more than one Caliph)? He said: The one to whom allegiance is sworn first has a supremacy over the others. Concede to them their due rights (i.e. obey them). God (Himself) will question them about the subjects whom He had entrusted to them. Sahih Muslim Book 020, Hadith Number 4543
But here on dunya, you all seem to wana take that role, you wana question his authority, (judge, jury and executioner) hip hip hooray for these muslims…
You will sing a tune that they aren’t muslim, therefore they should be destroyed. So how is the kafir muslim? Why does the kufr system thrive, coz we have people such as yourselves promoting it knowingly or unknowingly.

Have you sat down with a sheikh about this hadith (prophetic tradition) or are you here to pass fatwa on ISIS's legitimacy based on this hadith (prophetic tradition)? I'm not a scholar myself, just as in law school I wasn't a legal scholar. So, I deferred judgment about what we were studying of law to my law professor. In that same way, I defer judgments about matters like this to my sheikh who unlike me is an Islamic scholar. My sheikh has unequivocally stated that ISIS's actions are not from Islam. Period. Dot. Full Stop. They are Khwaraij. And therefore, In-sha-Allah (God-willing), I will never support the Khwaraij. My heart is satisfied with proofs of them being Khwaraij.

Kufr system thrives because the internal spiritual condition of Muslims is allowing it to thrive! Muslims are great in number, but the number of practicing Muslims is low. Sahaba were low in numbers, but the number of practicing among them was great. Therefore, victory was theirs.

Yes, I hope the Khwaraij are destroyed as they persist in their michief-making, and I do not wish to be associated in any way with their professed intentions or actions.


One person states that these men work for the Saud regime (laughable) yet the Saud has the biggest army on the ground in the region (40 000 men)… really open your eyes…to use that hadith as reference is really weak on your part to justify your slander.

Muslims need to realize that this is not a war on terror like the governments like portraying, but a war on Islam, which means it’s a war on YOU, the sooner you realize it the sooner we can make taubah for denying Allah!!!

Nobody Muslim here is denying Allah, and please stop saying we're "denying Allah" as this is not a befitting accusation to make of other Muslims.


What you fail to realize as muslims is, they are slowly making you disbelievers, you stand for kufr and deny Islam
Allah reminds us in the Quran that the disbelievers will never be satisfied with you until you follow their way. Infact it’s a stern warning…
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper. #Quran 2:120

Allah SWT is Great. I neither see Muslims here standing for kufr nor denying Islam. Muslims and non-Muslims on this thread, at least far as I can tell, with a few exceptions are against radicalization/extremism/fanaticism/terrorism.

Yes, Allah SWT is our protector and helper.


(This ayah here being proof, refer to Quran 18:57… yet you will deny it, because Allah has set veils upon your hearts, because you don’t see what deeds your hands have sent forth (jizyah to kufr governments) killing of those innocent people that you claim to honor, so now you sign petitions to stop the bombings, even though your hands are already covered in blood.

Our hands are not covered in blood and that's inexcusable of you to say, especially when nothing in Islam says that people who live in non-Muslim lands simply by virtue of their location are considered participants of their government's inexcusable actions.


Fi amanillah

Wa iyyaak (and you too).
:wa:
Reply

sister herb
12-06-2015, 09:50 AM
Salam alaykum

If something should at these days preach in every mosques, it´s to remind to Muslims that islam is the religion of the peace. It´s not a religion of hate, radicalism or violence against civilians.

"War against Islam" is just a piece of the propaganda. Unfortunately some people, specially young ones are the first victims of kind of hate speakers whose love to spread this propaganda. They don´t see how much sorrow and terror these kind of groups like Daesh, al-Qaeda or Boko Haram have spreaded among their fellow Muslims. Also some people like to raise their low self-esteem in the social media as copy the words of radicals.
Reply

sister herb
12-06-2015, 10:34 AM
Also, I am almost ready to believe to those conspiracy theories whose claim that Daesh (like al-Qaeda before) are nothing more than creations of the CIA (yeah, good old common enemy works always). Their only reasons are to demonize Islam and Muslims and what´s the more important goal: to put us fight against each other. This seems to work well.

"Divide et impera." - Machiavelli

(Divide and rule.)
Reply

ajr
12-06-2015, 01:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Is it ok if i forward it ukhti? And make a few leaflets?
Salaam, go ahead...
Reply

Abz2000
12-06-2015, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ajr
Salaam, go ahead...
JazakAllahu khayran, forwarded, leaflets soon inshaAllah, it actually makes a person think positively rather than just tell them stuff which they're falsely programmed to reject offhand.

Syed, hows the secular democracy thing going? Maybe help us set up "kuffar for islamic shariah uk"?
I mean, they spent a lot of money for secular democracy in egypt but that turned into a secular dictatorship tyranny, but at least they managed to harm the palestinians for the sake of secular zionists hey? Why not spend a bit in britain, i mean like sort of to be a bit more diverse and liberal.
Reply

ajr
12-06-2015, 03:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
may Allah reward you with protection and good reward in this world and in eternity ukhti.
Ameen Allahuma Ameen...


In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the Alamin.

The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

The Owner of the Day of Recompense.

You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help.

Guide us to the Straight Path

The Path of those on whom You have bestowed Your Graces, not of those who have earned Your Anger, nor of those who went astray.

Ameen

Oh Lord! Pour forth on us patience, and set firm our feet and make us victorious over the disbelieving people. #Quran 2:250
Reply

Abz2000
12-06-2015, 03:30 PM
Seven countries in five years:



- would have been easy if it was just a case of invading countries and overcoming governments and soldiery, then installing puppets over secular worldly populations who were accepting as long as they could go about their daily live like cattle.
However the Islamic network with no central authority that unpredictably materializes out of nothing, takes it's rules from Quran and bows it's knee to God is a totally hairsplitting concept for the corrupt, the infidel colonialists get ambushed at every turn.

No wonder bush kept going on about "behind schedule" and his wh0re lamestream media kept saying "bogged down".
If it wasn't for the sake of Allah that people turned to the faith and mujahideen rose from even the most straying of nations, we would have probably seen a few more countries with blood pouring profusely by now.
Maybe their strategy of helping mujahideen into syria was containment, but it actually drew the world's attention and grew a global Islamic awakening, i notice people on normal newspaper comment sections are more often quite informed and slightly well read.

Wa makaroo wa makara Allah - waAllahu khair al maakireen.
Reply

Abz2000
12-07-2015, 12:31 AM
I was once held captive and a big fat ugly woman came and asked me: what are your views on fundamentalists?
I asked her, depends on what you mean when you say fundamentalism.
She had this confused frown for a few seconds and she said: "never mind" and went on to other baiting stupid questions.
That's when it struck me that people were using terms and labels thrown at a void, with a negative connotation conjured by the dajjal media in the minds of the heedless masses.
I later regularly asked people when they mentioned it and they usually got stuck, or knew the meaning but had never made the association of the actual word. They just saw it as something that people think is bad or islamic, basically a slander.

I had an idea of what radical might mean and i suddenly had the urge to google it because i remembered that the turtles (tmnt) used to say "radical dude" along with "extreme", i'm pretty certain that the op didn't have a clue, until she read this post, since she'd otherwise be bundling most of her liberal friends into the definition (actually, if i were a betting man, i'd say that 90% of the current readers of this post were unaware of exactly what it means in different contexts).

Oh well, i just realised that the slanderously applied term "radical fundamentalist" is a dichotomy/oxymoron, unless it can be somehow construed to mean revolutionary radicalism due to the goal post having been fiddled around with and those involved in the revolution (full circle) having to make drastic changes to the false status quo, however, looking further, we realize that fundamental truth doesn't change, other than illusorily in the mind. Therefore those liberals attempting to implement the sunnah of men over the sunnah of God are the radicals. They falsely imagine/portray that they're free in God's world whilst attempting to subjugate mankind to their own laws, however God remains Master. So "free radicals" appears to be another oxymoron in the realm of God's kingdom since all are ultimately subject to God.


Political radicalism

The term*political radicalism*(or simply, in*political science,*radicalism) denotes*political*principles focused on*altering*social structures*through revolutionary means and changing*value systems*in fundamental ways.
Derived from the Latin*radix*(root), the denotation of radical has changed since its eighteenth-century coinage to comprehend the entire political spectrum—yet retains the "change at the root" connotation fundamental to*revolutionary*societal change.

Historically,*radicalism*has referred exclusively to the radical left (under the single category of*far-left politics) and rarely incorporating*far-right politics,
though these may have revolutionary elements; the prominent exception is in the*United States*where some consider radicalism to include both political extremes of the radical left and the*radical right.

In traditional labels of the spectrum of political thought, the opposite of radical on the "right" of the political spectrum is termed*reactionary.

The nineteenth-century*Cyclopaedia of Political Science*(1881, 1889) reports that "radicalism is characterized less by its principles than by the manner of their application".

Conservatives often used the term*radical*pejoratively,
whereas contemporary left radicals used the term*conservative derogatorily;
*thus contemporary denotations of*radical,*radicalism, and*political radicalism*comprehend*far left (hard left, radical left),*and*far right (hard right, radical right).

The*Encyclopædia Britannica*records the first political usage of*radical*as ascribed to the*British Whig Party*parliamentarian*Charles James Fox, who, in 1797, proposed a "radical reform" of the*electoral system,*franchise*to provide*universal manhood suffrage, thereby,*idiomatically establishing*radical*to denote supporters of the reformation of the British Parliament.

Throughout the nineteenth century, the term was combined with political notions and doctrines, thus*working class radicalism,*middle class-, philosophic-, democratic-*bourgeois-,*Tory-, and plebeian radicalism.

In the event, politically influential radical leaders give rise to their own trend of political radicalism, e.g.*Spencean radicalism and*Carlilean radicalism.
Philosophically, the French political scientist*Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712–78), is the principal theoretician proposing*political radicalism*as feasible in*republican*political philosophy,*viz*the*French Revolution(1789–99), and other modern revolutions—the antithesis to the*liberalism*of*John Locke.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism
Reply

ardianto
12-07-2015, 12:35 AM
George W Bush's plan to attack Iraq made me very angry. So I went to a mosque to meet Iraqi ambassador and made promise to support Iraq. Then I did what I could do, made satires to mock Bush, seize and burn US propaganda materials that I could find. I decided to fight Bush in the special battlefield, propaganda war.

Was I radical?. I don't care if Bush supporters see me like this. Yes, I was very angry at Bush, but I did not regard every America citizen as my enemy. I knew, there were many America citizen who did not support Bush. That's why I always try to be kind to every American citizen that I met. I was just anti Bush, like many Muslims in the world.

External factor like attack on Muslims does not automatically make a Muslim become radical, because the determinant factor that make a Muslim become radical is the internal factors. How is his conception of Islam, how is his conception of his duties as Muslim, how is his view on non-Muslims.

In seeking solution to handle radicalism we cannot just focus to external factor like Islamophobia without giving much attention to internal factors. We must able to teach Muslims to handle the problems in wise manner. Radicalism does not help Muslims, but just cause more trouble for Muslims themselves.
Reply

ardianto
12-07-2015, 12:49 AM
What is radical?. If you decided to tear down your house and rebuild simply because its paint has faded.

But if you decide to just repaint because you realize your house condition is still good, you are wise.
Reply

Abz2000
12-07-2015, 01:13 AM
Omg! You're against bush?

You're either with bush, or you're with the terrorists ok?
Reply

Search
12-07-2015, 01:47 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Abz, I take your point because you're right about me not having had any prior idea about the history of the word radical/radicalism that you posted from Wikipedia. That said, I still believe these terms are applicable regardless of the fact that the West uses them to label terrorists or those who have a negative worldview in which un-Islamic jihad is the way forward. Like I told you, I don't consider using those terms as "name-calling" which is why I have told you that I find your views oriented in extremism/radicalism/fanaticism.

I believe Pygoscelis in one thread (Pygoscelis, correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly) made the point about how he doesn't like the term "extremist" used as a means of labeling people because an extremist Jain for example would be an extreme pacifist. I understood what he was saying.

That said, I think we can all go into discussion of terms, yet even if I agreed to refrain from "name-calling" individuals who hold negative worldview like you do extremist/radicalist/fundamentalist, I'd still have to call you out on the fact that I find your views not in alignment with orthodox Islam, which I have repeatedly stated and reiterate here again holds by ijma (consensus) the fact that suicide bombing/acts of terrorism/what-have-you are haram (forbidden).

Btw, I do not simply disagree with your negative worldview, which I might have let slide if it was any other subject matter. However, since I strongly disagree with your position because I think it is a misrepresentation of orthodox Islam's teachings, I cannot let you slide with what I consider misrepresentation of Islam and a dangerous ideology based on the perversion of Islam.

I have told you before, I think, but I will say again that you need to learn your Islam from an Islamic scholar. Also, you justifying the unjustifiable in Islam means that you and I will probably go toe to toe time and again because Islam is holistic and not meant to be taken in parts like some DIY job because the parts never equal the sum.

So, while you may find the term extremist/radical/fanatical slandering, I consider using those terms a means of warning peoples (Muslim and non-Muslim) against what your position represents.

:wa:
Reply

Abz2000
12-07-2015, 03:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism:

:sl:

Abz, I take your point because you're right about me not having had any prior idea about the history of the word radical/radicalism that you posted from Wikipedia. That said, I still believe these terms are applicable regardless of the fact that the West uses them to label terrorists or those who have a negative worldview in which un-Islamic jihad is the way forward. Like I told you, I don't consider using those terms as "name-calling" which is why I have told you that I find your views oriented in extremism/radicalism/fanaticism.

I believe Pygoscelis in one thread (Pygoscelis, correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly) made the point about how he doesn't like the term "extremist" used as a means of labeling people because an extremist Jain for example would be an extreme pacifist. I understood what he was saying.

That said, I think we can all go into discussion of terms, yet even if I agreed to refrain from "name-calling" individuals who hold negative worldview like you do extremist/radicalist/fundamentalist, I'd still have to call you out on the fact that I find your views not in alignment with orthodox Islam, which I have repeatedly stated and reiterate here again holds by ijma (consensus) the fact that suicide bombing/acts of terrorism/what-have-you are haram (forbidden).

Btw, I do not simply disagree with your negative worldview, which I might have let slide if it was any other subject matter. However, since I strongly disagree with your position because I think it is a misrepresentation of orthodox Islam's teachings, I cannot let you slide with what I consider misrepresentation of Islam and a dangerous ideology based on the perversion of Islam.

I have told you before, I think, but I will say again that you need to learn your Islam from an Islamic scholar. Also, you justifying the unjustifiable in Islam means that you and I will probably go toe to toe time and again because Islam is holistic and not meant to be taken in parts like some DIY job because the parts never equal the sum.

So, while you may find the term extremist/radical/fanatical slandering, I consider using those terms a means of warning peoples (Muslim and non-Muslim) against what your position represents.

:wa:
Again you mention letting it slide and toe to toe as if we're on a level or having some sort of mutual debate, i assure you that we're galaxies apart when it comes to truth - and there is only one truth about Allah in the contexts of our discussions and one of us is nearer to it.

Firstly there is no point in attempting to portray that you are refuting me when you provide no authority for such claims whether logical or Quranic - other than the fact that you vaguely mention that i'm not in tune with "scholars" - God knows what you mean by that since -for argument's sake i can provide at least a few historically accepted scholars to back up such claims, however, you know what? Even when they agree with me, i give no weight to their arguments unless it can be shown to have weight in truth, Quran which is beyond reproach, sunnah based on Quran, intellectually/factually irrefutable authority.

Anyways, if you had any idea what "terrorist" is you would have been able to define it, and i assure you that the governments who's claims you submit to and threaten to grass "my type" up to (as if they don't already know me well) themselves have no consistent understanding of the term, they upped it during the bush era (as i described above- where everyone who was against bush in his criminal "war on terror " or sided with usama et al was labelled a terrorist, whether they be "terrified" governments of so called sovereign nations who were threatened and blackmailed or hugo chavez who was called "a member of alqaeda", and anyone who fought against illegally invading u.s or u.k soldiers in iraq and afghanistan - "terrorists" and later "insurgents", then when they wanted to start a war to topple the regimes in libya and syria they found that they themselves would fall under the term "terrorists" and "state sponsors of terror" by their very own definitions - so they did as they normally do with their baseless and cheap man made laws, they promptly changed the already baseless legal definition of "terrorism" again.

So if you want to make a statement, please do provide some sort of Quranic or logical authority rather than use over abused meaningless terms and popular but false general associations which no longer hold any weight. (i once had a london cop threaten to lock me away on "terrorism" charges because my audio player at my place of business said the word "attack" but he later backed off when i told him i wouldn't answer any more of his questions until i recorded him due to his making of unfounded threats - they've used stalkers to call me a "terrorist" too and locked me away on false robbery charges when i slapped one, and confronted me on my way to important protests with claims that an individual of my description was just involved in a fight, hell even pimps in tottenham court road have called me a terrorist because i was ready to fight them when they surrounded me for pulling offand tearing up call girl adverts from phone booths on my way to mosque, anyways, the cops confronted us twice in one night and told us to stop tearing them down because it was their job to follow up on that stuff, oh we had them in loops.
That's how they abused their authority and brutalized a generation, we just had to look at what was right because we had experienced and seen some of their abuse, false charges, attempted frame-ups, irrationality, torture and lies, we just put our trust in Allah and braced ourselves because the only thing we had certain hope in was the hereafter.

Btw, you mentioned "unislamic jihad" as if you knew what lawful Islamic Jihad is, do you care to tell us if the war against kafir soldiers who unlawfully invade a Muslim land - and who's government have invaded on a false pretext bent on occupation for resources and regional domination which thereby constitute a continuous war crime even by the standards of the impotent u.n they set up and dictate to - is Islamic according to Islam or is it terrorism according to Islam.

Please don't beat about the bush on this one as it's quite simply nothing other than a one out of two answer.
There are no shades in between.
That way we'll have an idea as to your intentions when making these "refutations".
Reply

Search
12-07-2015, 03:33 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Abz, read my refutation of sis ajr's post if you haven't already: That should answer some of your questions, if not all of them, though I'm sure it would offend your sensibilities mired in DIY cut-and-paste Islam.

As far as Islamic jihad is concerned, I have posted many times links to the classical perspective on jihad and I doubt you've read it: It's been posted even in this thread itself. So, no excuse to be lazy about saying you don't know what I believe or think is Islamic jihad.

Hmm, honestly? I don't care what you think my intentions are; and therefore, I don't care to prove anything to you about my so-called "intentions."

Btw, L, O, L. What a twisted, twisty little line at the end there.

:wa:
Reply

MuslimInshallah
12-07-2015, 03:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
I think most radicalization happens online today, and it is this that is the subject of my interest in this thread. Negative voices are easily amplified on the Internet, and people may fall to the radicalization due to many reasons that include feeling like the terrorists are offering a "higher" purpose, especially if the person feels rudderless in his/her life.

Mostly though, I think radicalization happens due to the demonization of the West,
Assalaamu alaikum Search,


(smile) I have been enjoying reading your thoughts on this and other threads.

I wonder, though, whether these assertions are quite true. I mean, yes, one can find all sorts of unpleasant things on the internet... but it seems to me that a person who would be interested in such things tends to have a predisposition to them.

(smile) Human beings are social creatures. We need to feel part of a group. If we feel alone and threatened, we will tend to look for people we can join with. This is a major force behind people joining gangs... of all kinds.

From my own personal experience, I have felt different levels of discrimination and exclusion in various different countries. And it seems to me that the more there exists discrimination and exclusion by the larger society towards a minority, the more easily people are sucked into extreme groups, whether it be youth gangs, organized crime, terrorist groups or religious cults.

Of course, family bonds are very important. A close and loving family offers some protection from isolation. But if you combine an unhealthy family environment with a rejecting society... the likelihood of a person falling for the glamour of a promised powerful "brotherhood" increases.

And then there are mental health issues. A person who is feeling weakened and alone because of internal factors is also looking for relief from their sense of isolation and fear.

(smile) But do people say to themselves: I feel weak and alone, so I'm going to join the Hell's Angels, or the Order of the Solar Temple, or Daesh...? (smile) No, we humans tend to find other ways to gloss over our feelings of helplessness and fear, because these are too scary, and too humbling for us to want to admit. So we say instead that we are real men, or independent rebels, we say we are mystics possessed of great secrets, we say we are the few only real Muslims coming to bring Light to the weak and oppressed...

This feeling of isolation and fear is what I think prepares the mind of the person who will join a radical group. And then the person looks online and discovers a group he/she feels can give them the illusion of strength and love that they crave.

(smile) And so, I believe the solutions to radicalization (or extremism) lie in creating more just and inclusive societies. Supporting healthy family environments. Properly and kindly looking after those who have mental health issues. (smile) Ardianto suggested a while back that love is what we need. (smile) And I agree that this is a very necessary ingredient. For after all, if we cared... wouldn't we try hard to make things better for one another?


May Allah, the Loving, Compassionate and Kind, Help us to be humble enough to turn to Him in our loneliness and fear. And Help us to Please Him... through our efforts to do good for one another.
Reply

Abz2000
12-07-2015, 04:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism:

:sl:

Abz, read my refutation of sis ajr's post if you haven't already: That should answer some of your questions, if not all of them, though I'm sure it would offend your sensibilities mired in DIY cut-and-paste Islam.

As far as Islamic jihad is concerned, I have posted many times links to the classical perspective on jihad and I doubt you've read it: It's been posted even in this thread itself. So, no excuse to be lazy about saying you don't know what I believe or think is Islamic jihad.

Hmm, honestly? I don't care what you think my intentions are; and therefore, I don't care to prove anything to you about my so-called "intentions."

Btw, L, O, L. What a twisted, twisty little line at the end there.

:wa:
Since it is quite obvious that you decided to beat about the bush and refuse to answer a simple question which would have clarified to all users your real intentions when claiming to be a Muslim and refuting unislamic deviations, especially when you have called for violence in Muslim majority lands and have continually hated on Muslims while not a word against the actions of burma, America, uk, France despite thr aggressions- i shall put you on an ignore list and please do the same for me, it appears that you are attempting to run around the ranks and sow sedition, doubt and fasaad whilst baiting and attempting to discredit genuine viewpoints by babbling in between people's posts - do not comment on or quote my posts, the amount of derailment and argument you've caused on discussions with false doctrine and baiting constitutes trolling.
I hope the mods ban either me or you pretty soon.
Just make sure you ignore my posts ok?

Chapter Name: Fussilat

Verse No: 26
وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَا تَسْمَعُوا لِهَذَا الْقُرْآنِ وَالْغَوْا فِيهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَغْلِبُون

41:026*Khan:
And those who disbelieve say: "Listen not to this Qur'an, and make noise in the midst of its (recitation) that you may overcome."

041:026*Rashad:
Those who disbelieved said, "Do not listen to this Quran and distort it, that you may win."

041:026*Sarwar:
The disbelievers say, "Do not listen to this Quran but make a lot of unnecessary noise while it is being read so that perhaps you will defeat it".

041:026*Shakir:
And those who disbelieve say: Do not listen to this Quran and make noise therein, perhaps you may overcome.

041:026*Sherali:
And those who disbelieve say, 'Listen not to this Qur'an, but make noise during its recital that you may have the upper hand.'

041:026*Yusufali:
The Unbelievers say: "Listen not to this Qur'an, but talk at random in the midst of its (reading), that ye may gain the upper hand!"

7فَلَنُذِيقَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا عَذَابًا شَدِيدًا وَلَنَجْزِيَنَّهُمْ أَسْوَأَ الَّذِي كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

041:027*Khan:
But surely, We shall cause those who disbelieve to taste a severe torment, and certainly, We shall requite them the worst of what they used to do.

041:027*Pickthal:
But verily We shall cause those who disbelieve to taste an awful doom, and verily We shall requite them the worst of what they used to do.

041:027*Rashad:
We will certainly afflict these disbelievers with a severe retribution. We will certainly requite them for their evil works.

041:027*Sarwar:
We shall certainly make the unbelievers suffer severe torment and will punish them far worse than what they deserve for their deeds.

041:027*Shakir:
Therefore We will most certainly make those who disbelieve taste a severe punishment, and We will most certainly reward them for the evil deeds they used to do.

041:027*Sherali:
And, most certainly, WE will make those who disbelieve taste a severe punishment, and, most certainly, WE will requite them for the worst of their deeds.

041:027*Yusufali:
But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds.
Reply

sister herb
12-07-2015, 12:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Omg! You're against bush?

You're either with bush, or you're with the terrorists ok?
This world is not so black or white like you try to think it is.
Reply

sister herb
12-07-2015, 12:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
May the wrath of the Islamic state sweep all 4 corners of the Earth.
May Allah gives us enough wisdom to create the real Islamic state first and then rule it with justice, not with rage.
Reply

abo mussaab
12-07-2015, 12:18 PM

Reply

Search
12-07-2015, 11:36 PM
:bism:

:sl:

Masha-Allah (as God willed), sis MuslimInshallah!

Actually, what you've said closely resembles my thoughts, and therefore I do think you're right: People who are interested in these things do have a predisposition to committing acts of mayhem.

For example, one of the books that has been linked to a number of serial killers is John Fowles’ “The Collector.”

Mark David Chapman, John Lennon's killer, was famously obsessed with the classic bestseller “The Catcher in the Rye.” Yet millions of people read the same books and are not inspired to commit murder or mayhem.

For example, I've read the bestseller book “The Catcher in the Rye” in my youth and though I could relate to somewhat the adolescent angst portrayed within the protagonist in my teenage years, I wasn't the least bit tempted to engage in anything subversive or evil and yet others have admitted to have been so inspired.

I agree with you: I do think that feelings of alienation as a minority could trigger issues that could lead one astray and onto the path of joining a destructive group like Daesh. For example, news outlets have reported at least some teenagers having joined Daesh coming from broken homes.

Also, I think mental health issues play a part as well because, for example, the Chattanooga shooter had depression and participated in substance abuse (drugs and alcohol) as a result of being the verge of declaring bankruptcy and having failed to acquire a job due to failing a drug test.

Actually, the part wherein you talk about how a few right Muslims feel that they have the Light and will bring it to oppressed and weak peoples is extremely malignant rhetoric because then they're easily able to ask conformity of others as they are the "few right" ones. Actually, "few right" Muslims is a rhetoric even antithetical to Islam because Muslims are in a prophetic tradition are assured that the majority are on the Straight Path.

Disaffected individuals in any group, like you said, are prone to committing acts of horror like the older of the Tsarnaev Brothers because one of them had wife worked 70+ hour per week but he was jobless himself. The other one seems to have taken to the brother's brainwashing. However, of note is the fact that the older one became radicalized due to materials online.

News is now confirming that San Bernardino couple responsible for the evil perpetrated also had predisposition to this evil with her studying at a Taliban-ideological-styled religious seminary, which undoubtedly influenced her worldview. However, the man already seemed a little unhinged from what was revealed of his beliefs in the interview with the father as the father admitted: “My son said he shared (ISIS leader Abu Bakr) Al Baghdadi's ideology, and supported the creation of the Islamic State." Now, honestly, how can anyone share ISIS ideology unless they had access to ISIS material online.

That is why I am concerned about the radicalization online because I am concerned that disaffected Muslims youths now have an outlet in the Internet for their rage and predispositions towards violence with the availability of extremist material that distorts orthodox Islam and easily gives them a "higher purpose" in the form of an "us versus them" rhetoric with a Google search or a blog or on Twitter or "special invitation" Forums. And all of this unfortunately seems tied to how the West is responsible for millions of Muslims having died worldwide as a consequence of War on Terror. Therefore, while we may not be able to do anything about the online access of youths, I think at least we can help others if we refuse to engage in demonization of the West and instead turn the conversation to how the specific Muslim in question should instead engage in spiritual introspection and draw closer to Allah SWT with increasing his or her practice of Islam (in regards to implementation of Quran and Sunnah (prophetic footsteps)) and instead be the beacon of light and hope and goodness with which others (Muslim and non-Muslim) are able to positively engage and in turn are internally challenged to become better.

Thanks, sis, for sharing your thoughts; your words were a beneficial read.

:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Search,


(smile) I have been enjoying reading your thoughts on this and other threads.

I wonder, though, whether these assertions are quite true. I mean, yes, one can find all sorts of unpleasant things on the internet... but it seems to me that a person who would be interested in such things tends to have a predisposition to them.

(smile) Human beings are social creatures. We need to feel part of a group. If we feel alone and threatened, we will tend to look for people we can join with. This is a major force behind people joining gangs... of all kinds.

From my own personal experience, I have felt different levels of discrimination and exclusion in various different countries. And it seems to me that the more there exists discrimination and exclusion by the larger society towards a minority, the more easily people are sucked into extreme groups, whether it be youth gangs, organized crime, terrorist groups or religious cults.

Of course, family bonds are very important. A close and loving family offers some protection from isolation. But if you combine an unhealthy family environment with a rejecting society... the likelihood of a person falling for the glamour of a promised powerful "brotherhood" increases.

And then there are mental health issues. A person who is feeling weakened and alone because of internal factors is also looking for relief from their sense of isolation and fear.

(smile) But do people say to themselves: I feel weak and alone, so I'm going to join the Hell's Angels, or the Order of the Solar Temple, or Daesh...? (smile) No, we humans tend to find other ways to gloss over our feelings of helplessness and fear, because these are too scary, and too humbling for us to want to admit. So we say instead that we are real men, or independent rebels, we say we are mystics possessed of great secrets, we say we are the few only real Muslims coming to bring Light to the weak and oppressed...

This feeling of isolation and fear is what I think prepares the mind of the person who will join a radical group. And then the person looks online and discovers a group he/she feels can give them the illusion of strength and love that they crave.

(smile) And so, I believe the solutions to radicalization (or extremism) lie in creating more just and inclusive societies. Supporting healthy family environments. Properly and kindly looking after those who have mental health issues. (smile) Ardianto suggested a while back that love is what we need. (smile) And I agree that this is a very necessary ingredient. For after all, if we cared... wouldn't we try hard to make things better for one another?


May Allah, the Loving, Compassionate and Kind, Help us to be humble enough to turn to Him in our loneliness and fear. And Help us to Please Him... through our efforts to do good for one another.
Reply

Search
12-07-2015, 11:59 PM
:bism:

:sl:

Response to Abz:

I refused to engage with you in a bait question: Reread the title and the purpose of this thread as you seem to have lost the plot.

You propagate an extremist/radical/fanatical ideology, and I assuredly will not stay quiet about this no matter how you try to silence me.

This is a PUBLIC Forum, not your home in which I have to be invited beforehand and think about how I may enter and think beforehand about what decorum I should adopt before speaking to you, a self-professed supporter of organizations like Daesh. What you want is irrelevant to me in regards to participation in this Forum. If mods ban me, that is their prerogative, and I assure you I will respect their decision; however, I will not be silenced into submission with your subversive tactics meant to have people question my "Muslim-ness."

Funny, I think the same about you, that you're sowing sedition, doubt and fasaad (corruption). Don't think I didn't notice how you tried to guilt Muslims on the "Paris Attacks" thread about believing that the attack was inhumane and against Islam. Don't think I didn't noticed how you were rude to both brother Vision and brother ardianto when they didn't agree with you. I have an excellent memory, which unfortunately for you means that I won't be forgetting your modus of operandi which so far as I can tell means diverting attention from one evil to another, all for the purpose of justifying your negative and twisted worldview in which un-Islamic jihad is the way forward for all Muslims despite the fact that these actions are from the Khwaraij.

Also, unlike you, I learn my Islam from scholars and am not a self-styled mufti (Islamic scholar) on the Internet like you.

Don't even talk about so-called "arguments" in which many a time you were the direct instigator. Don't believe me, go through your post history; and ask mods to go through the deleted posts of yours.

Also, I doubt moderators and Forum members are feeble-minded and I find your presumption that they'll just nod their heads and accept whatever you say quite, quite offensive. You might have been longer here on IB than me, but that doesn't mean your ideas merit the respect that you seem to think they do.

That said, I don't mind ignoring your posts provided that they do not include things like praising actions of a terrorist or promoting terrorism. In that case, I will respond and you not wanting me to respond then is irrelevant to me: Capisce?

Peace.


format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Since it is quite obvious that you decided to beat about the bush and refuse to answer a simple question which would have clarified to all users your real intentions when claiming to be a Muslim and refuting unislamic deviations, especially when you have called for violence in Muslim majority lands and have continually hated on Muslims while not a word against the actions of burma, America, uk, France despite thr aggressions- i shall put you on an ignore list and please do the same for me, it appears that you are attempting to run around the ranks and sow sedition, doubt and fasaad whilst baiting and attempting to discredit genuine viewpoints by babbling in between people's posts - do not comment on or quote my posts, the amount of derailment and argument you've caused on discussions with false doctrine and baiting constitutes trolling.
I hope the mods ban either me or you pretty soon.
Just make sure you ignore my posts ok?
Reply

Abdul Emwazi
12-09-2015, 12:09 PM
Brother Abz is quite knowledgeable from what I have read. Daesh is quite offensive a name and the movement should be called Islamic state, as that is what it is. I fail to see why you "search" continue to attack him.
Reply

sister herb
12-09-2015, 12:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
Brother Abz is quite knowledgeable from what I have read. Daesh is quite offensive a name and the movement should be called Islamic state, as that is what it is. I fail to see why you "search" continue to attack him.
How it could to be an Islamic state while their acts are so far from the teaching of Islam? It´s like calling the Ku Klux Klan as a Christian movement.

Haven´t you read how many scholars world wide have condemned the practices of daesh already? I do believe them and their knowledge much more than some unknown who writes to forums.
Reply

Search
12-10-2015, 05:31 AM
:bism:

:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Emwazi
Brother Abz is quite knowledgeable from what I have read. Daesh is quite offensive a name and the movement should be called Islamic state, as that is what it is. I fail to see why you "search" continue to attack him.
There are many non-Muslims part of the Islamophobic industry quoting Quran and hadiths (prophetic tradition) ad nauseum, yet would you say they are knowledgeable about Islam? If not, then that is your first lesson in understanding that some people may seem knowledgeable, yet when one probes deeper, that knowledge is found to not have deep roots in anything but surface-level understanding of Islam.

Brother Abz2000 has an Internet connection; that is the best qualification I have seen in him to speak on matters of which he speaks.

Islamic scholars by consensus have opposed and continue to oppose acts of terrorism, suicide bombings, and mass murders for a reason. Their reason is based on Islam itself. Please understand and respect their knowledge and your own ignorance. Only a person who understands and respects his own ignorance is able to learn.

Please as a revert do not fall into the trap of going into an "extremes." As our Muslim brother in faith, you do not have to prove anything to any Muslim or even non-Muslim; do not think that you do, because if you do, you will veer off the Straight Path.

Why should it be called "Islamic State"? Because Abz2000 said so? What about the fact that he'd recently in one of his posts said "God is a terrorist, Prophets are terrorists," and ranted. Is this the man from whom you want to take your Islam?

I do not wish to "attack" Abz2000: I do not hold any malice or enmity towards him.

Regardless, I think his promotion of un-Islamic ideas as maintain Islam are dangerous, which is why I refute him and others like-minded on those points. That said, to give him his fair due, I think he at least has one noteworthy quality that he's exhibited, which is that he's relatively consistent.

Hopefully, you now have your answer as to the matter; and In-sha-Allah (God-willing) you will be able to understand what I've said in the best way possible and thanks in advance for your patience.

:wa:
Reply

Muhammad
12-10-2015, 02:17 PM
:salamext:

As this is turning into a personal war, I think it is best we leave the discussion here.

I advise myself and my brothers and sisters to learn about Islam from the people of knowledge and to be careful of speaking without knowledge on forums.
Reply

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