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Glac09
05-15-2016, 09:53 PM
Extremist mosques could be closed down under a law expected to be announced this week.

An Extremism Bill will be a key part of the Queen’s Speech setting out PM David Cameron ’s plans for legislation in the year ahead.

A source said: “There will be measures to ban organisations. They are also looking at making it easier to shut premises used to promote hate.”

Closure could be immediate.

But Lib Dem Alistair Carmichael said: “The last thing we should be doing is driving extremists into the shadows.”

A British Bill of Rights may also feature in the Queen’s Speech on Wednesday.

Councils may get new powers to help people off the streets.

Energy firms face a shake-up, and Oxford and Cambridge could be forced to take more minority students.

Another law would bring broadband internet connections for all.



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muslimah_B
05-15-2016, 10:06 PM
how this idiot got elected is beyond me.... we should ban all these idiots, who make the stupidest ideas and decisions ever !

do we know which masjid are being targeted to be closed down ?
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_E_3
05-15-2016, 10:14 PM
this stupid stupid man and his stupid stupid party they are as bad as the nazis the international human rights laws that was enforced after WWII are the only law that should be enforced here and there new "LAW " is against all of the International human rights laws and this "LAW" will make Britain a police state
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EgyptPrincess
05-15-2016, 10:19 PM
I can think of a few in London that may be on that list. Closing down a mosque just because it once had or "might" have extremists attending is ridiculous.

Take down the extremists... not the mosques. Bad move from Mr. Cameron.
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muslimah_B
05-15-2016, 10:33 PM
Well i dont know how he gets away with things.
1st there was that whole debate on banning the niqab, then the whole media storm of muslim women being oppressed etc etc
Then the talks about joining france to bomb our brothers and sisters
Even more about muslims being extremists, now this silly man is targeting our masjids
Hes like the little brother of that other stupid man "trump" face

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EgyptPrincess
05-15-2016, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Well i dont know how he gets away with things.
1st there was that whole debate on banning the niqab, then the whole media storm of muslim women being oppressed etc etc
Then the talks about joining france to bomb our brothers and sisters
Even more about muslims being extremists, now this silly man is targeting our masjids
Hes like the little brother of that other stupid man "trump" face

I disagree with what you said about the image you posted. The UK have not been bombing Syrians, in fact they only conduct a few air strikes a month, mostly on a single truck or tanks. It's the U.S which bomb wildly.

With the winning hand, one does not need to cheat.
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muslimah_B
05-15-2016, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I disagree with what you said about the image you posted. The UK have not been bombing Syrians, in fact they only conduct a few air strikes a month, mostly on a single truck or tanks. It's the U.S which bomb wildly.

With the winning hand, one does not need to cheat.
Sis the fact that they are bombing is a problem no matter how many times they do it we cant for a fact state whos bombs does what as we arent over there nor would i ever pay attention to what the media has to say with anything to do with muslims or what they do other there, innocent brothers and sisters are always the ones suffering not the supposed people theyre targetting.

I would never ever condone these types of attacks at all, i dont care who it is.
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EgyptPrincess
05-15-2016, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Sis the fact that they are bombing is a problem no matter how many times they do it we cant for a fact state whos bombs does what as we arent over there nor would i ever pay attention to what the media has to say with anything to do with muslims or what they do other there, innocent brothers and sisters are always the ones suffering not the supposed people theyre targetting.

I would never ever condone these types of attacks at all, i dont care who it is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...-against-daesh Here you can find full detailed analysis of air strike conducted by the British government and I know you don't believe them but think about it logically.

Each paveway missile and brimstone missile costs £22,000 and £105,000 respectively. What possible benefit is there to drop these on innocent civilians in their homes rather than actual IS fighters who are actually a potential threat to the west? (pairs attacks, Brussels attacks) is a clear example of this.

So there is literally 0 purpose in dropping these bombs on civilians. Is there a chance civilians may be caught in the blast? Yes, but I believe the UK takes much greater care now after the indiscriminate bombing of Iraq / Afghanistan which was the biggest tragedy the UK have made in a long time.

The UK simply cannot afford to drop bombs indiscriminately like the U.S and so if you check the MOD website, it's always a truck or a car or something which is out in the open. Occasionally they'll attack a warehouse or something. You can find these videos as "declassified" also which clearly shows a single truck out in the open road.

I must make it clear the UK is not invading Syria like they did in Iraq or Afghanistan so there is literally no reason whatsoever to mass bomb anything... Just precise calculated attacks on IS. Personally they should just drop a bomb on Assad's palace and be done with it.
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Misbah0411
05-15-2016, 11:45 PM
Eventually the kuffar will define extremists by those who establish the prayer, pay zakat, make Hajj, etc. and disillusioned Muslims with weak iman will follow them until they are identical to the kuffar in every aspect.
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muslimah_B
05-15-2016, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...-against-daesh Here you can find full detailed analysis of air strike conducted by the British government and I know you don't believe them but think about it logically.

Each paveway missile and brimstone missile costs £22,000 and £105,000 respectively. What possible benefit is there to drop these on innocent civilians in their homes rather than actual IS fighters who are actually a potential threat to the west? (pairs attacks, Brussels attacks) is a clear example of this.

So there is literally 0 purpose in dropping these bombs on civilians. Is there a chance civilians may be caught in the blast? Yes, but I believe the UK takes much greater care now after the indiscriminate bombing of Iraq / Afghanistan which was the biggest tragedy the UK have made in a long time.

The UK simply cannot afford to drop bombs indiscriminately like the U.S and so if you check the MOD website, it's always a truck or a car or something which is out in the open. Occasionally they'll attack a warehouse or something. You can find these videos as "declassified" also which clearly shows a single truck out in the open road.

I must make it clear the UK is not invading Syria like they did in Iraq or Afghanistan so there is literally no reason whatsoever to mass bomb anything... Just precise calculated attacks on IS. Personally they should just drop a bomb on Assad's palace and be done with it.
You know i read that whole thing and rolled my eyes then right at the end i literally burst out laughing and totally agreed with it (just the last sentence) lol.

Tbh as much as it may seem they loose money on war, they actually gain so much money during war, uk sells arms people buy they makes tonnes of loads of money (america does make more)... where do you think most of the taxes are going
Yea at the moment theyre not invading , but theres been talks and debates as to wether they should send ground troops over there and basically start world war 3

Sis they dont care if they hit civilians because they're muslims, its that sad of reality, we are the enemy to them, when has the government let alone the media ever put any good or positive things about islam its all doom and gloom whenever we are mentioned, we are all in that ball (im not talking about individual people but governments and medias only)
Shaytan has his hands in every cookie jar (people in power & people with money)



That is how much they spend on defence, and i guarantee its way more than that, for the prices you mentioned, no doubt they couldnt give 2 poos about the price as long as they dropping them

These people are direct enemies of islam and muslims, and we shouldnt defend them or even downplay any of their actions

The videos of seeing our brothers and sisters being attacked in hospitals, their homes, babies being digged out of rubble... it makes my heart bleed and just cry for them

Now in this country, we have our freedoms alhamdulilah but they are slowly trying to get a grip on us
And closing masjids is absolutely absurd and the beginning of something very stupid which will cause reprisals
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Misbah0411
05-15-2016, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I disagree with what you said about the image you posted. The UK have not been bombing Syrians, in fact they only conduct a few air strikes a month, mostly on a single truck or tanks. It's the U.S which bomb wildly.

With the winning hand, one does not need to cheat.
Oh, is that all. Just a few air strikes a month on Muslims on Muslim lands. Lets commend them on their restraint. Don't forget that it was the British that was major player in divided up the Muslim world into countries that would cause war and bloodshed down the road of history.
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muslimah_B
05-15-2016, 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Eventually the kuffar will define extremists by those who establish the prayer, pay zakat, make Hajj, etc. and disillusioned Muslims with weak iman will follow them until they are identical to the kuffar in every aspect.
That is already happening, in regards to the niqab, its seen as extreme, brothers having beards is seen as extreme and we even have certain muslims who actually agree with this nonsense... slowly and slowly they are trying to push us all into a corner..
I remember i was watching this documentry about britains first and they was handing out leaflets stating that the zakat was being paid to extremists and we pay it on every halal meat we buy (some people believed it and joined in giving out those leaflets) they went to restaurants that served halal food and threatened them, and the uncle was not happy at all and told them what zakat was but they didnt want to hear and ran away !
Theyre such a joke honeslty even the least knowledgeable muslim could easily debate them and win lol
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Oh, is that all. Just a few air strikes a month on Muslims on Muslim lands. Lets commend them on their restraint. Don't forget that it was the British that was major player in divided up the Muslim world into countries that would cause war and bloodshed down the road of history.
There has been wars raging across the middle east for centuries... So what in your opinion should happen? 54 Muslim nations and none of them do anything.

Do you truly believe IS is the best of Muslims?
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
That is already happening, in regards to the niqab, its seen as extreme, brothers having beards is seen as extreme and we even have certain muslims who actually agree with this nonsense... slowly and slowly they are trying to push us all into a corner..
I remember i was watching this documentry about britains first and they was handing out leaflets stating that the zakat was being paid to extremists and we pay it on every halal meat we buy (some people believed it and joined in giving out those leaflets) they went to restaurants that served halal food and threatened them, and the uncle was not happy at all and told them what zakat was but they didnt want to hear and ran away !
Theyre such a joke honeslty even the least knowledgeable muslim could easily debate them and win lol
Sister, you're from London also correct? You should know better than most than Britain First does not represent the true Britain lol... Britain First is like KKK of America. They have 0 seats in any parliament, ask yourself why? Cos they're morons and racists that's why. The UK is one of the most varied and accepting countries in the world!

Obviously closing mosques is a terrible decision and will only cause rife and anger... Call me brain washed or delusional or whatever but I really don't believe the "war on Islam". The UK have always been first on security and they see a few extremists commit a terrible act and they start getting paranoid and closing down mosques.

You realise that you have more chance of getting struck by lightning twice in your lifetime than getting killed by a terrorist in the UK lol? The UK is just paranoid and fearful due to a tiny tiny minority. If it was a war against Islam, you and me would not be here...
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muslimah_B
05-16-2016, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Sister, you're from London also correct? You should know better than most than Britain First does not represent the true Britain lol... Britain First is like KKK of America. They have 0 seats in any parliament, ask yourself why? Cos they're morons and racists that's why. The UK is one of the most varied and accepting countries in the world!

Obviously closing mosques is a terrible decision and will only cause rife and anger... Call me brain washed or delusional or whatever but I really don't believe the "war on Islam". The UK have always been first on security and they see a few extremists commit a terrible act and they start getting paranoid and closing down mosques.

You realise that you have more chance of getting struck by lightning twice in your lifetime than getting killed by a terrorist in the UK lol? The UK is just paranoid and fearful due to a tiny tiny minority. If it was a war against Islam, you and me would not be here...
I kno britain first dont represent the whole of britain, but they reprsent lets say a minority, but as these issues with islam arise they gain more followers, as to some idiots they have the answers.

Closing down masjids is not being paranoid at all its them playing a smart game to start the war on islam, the expression keep poking the bear and it will attack...
The amount of scandals that have come out of the catholic church no churches where ever in the firing line of being closed same with protestant churches.

Sis theres a idiot man running for president in America and look at what he says... uk and america are like butt buddies what one does the other follows eventually.

First its gonna be the closure of masjids and then what next... you have to look at the bigger picture of what is happening these people are clear cut kuffs and are enemies of islam..

If they want to stop paranoia then they should be spreading the message of Quran by reputable scholars and working with them, not defaming our religion

The extra security your talking about inpacts on us, extra scrutiny towards us, extra checks, random stops, all of that towards those of us who look "suspicious" which in real terms means those who look "too muslim" i.e big beard, thobe, turban, niqab, speaking arabic anything that is considerd "foreign"
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 01:36 AM
Lol yeah I just realised how true that is what you say about being stopped and searched etc.

David Cameron: "Islam is a religion of peace" but we're going to start closing down your mosques just to be sure lol xD

Just to clarify because you probably see I have the UK flag in my avatar and signature... I absolutely love the UK, that does not mean I love the people who run it!

I love the food, the educational system, the health care system etc... oh and I love London, especially South West London! This does not mean I love or agree with all the decisions the government make.

You know, just wanted to throw that in there :)
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muslimah_B
05-16-2016, 01:43 AM
Exactly
"Oh hey muslims enjoy your ramadan" while he bombs muslims and tries to ban the niqab and closes down masjids, i mean honestly they dont even try and hide their poo anymore..

Lol i like the uk i dont love it, i would prefer to be in a islamic country and hear the adhan, see sisters coverd so beautifully, etc etc

Dont get me wrong i dont hate it here lol theres good things here like you said free health care and an educational system, theres just certain things that i dont like especially the people running the country

Dont tell me your from battersea arent you LOL [emoji12]
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Exactly
"Oh hey muslims enjoy your ramadan" while he bombs muslims and tries to ban the niqab and closes down masjids, i mean honestly they dont even try and hide their poo anymore..

Lol i like the uk i dont love it, i would prefer to be in a islamic country and hear the adhan, see sisters coverd so beautifully, etc etc

Dont get me wrong i dont hate it here lol theres good things here like you said free health care and an educational system, theres just certain things that i dont like especially the people running the country

Dont tell me your from battersea arent you LOL [emoji12]
I'm close to Battersea hehe
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muslimah_B
05-16-2016, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I'm close to Battersea hehe
Yaay i was right (well close lol)
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Marina-Aisha
05-16-2016, 10:12 AM
I was born UK and I'm revert but its getting scared living here nw..we have racist groups andnow there gonna targeting mosques?!..they say islam about peace but there targetting mosques and madrassers. closing down islamic schools, where is it gonna end?ill be glad when i move to nice islamic country.
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Misbah0411
05-16-2016, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Marina-Aisha
I was born UK and I'm revert but its getting scared living here nw..we have racist groups andnow there gonna targeting mosques?!..they say islam about peace but there targetting mosques and madrassers. closing down islamic schools, where is it gonna end?ill be glad when i move to nice islamic country.
It's not going to be any better in the U.S. if that idiot Trump gets elected. Many Muslims are waking up from their secular slumber party and coming back to the Quran and Sunnah and yearning to establish Shariah back on earth. They realize Democracy is utter nonsense, man-made laws don't fulfill justice and the societies of the West are becoming more immoral. The disbelievers do not fight Islam because its a religion, they fight it because its also a socio-economic and political system of life that governs all of man's needs. The allies of the Shaytan vs. the allies of the Merciful. This is the natural confrontation that is suppose to happen towards the end times.
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_E_3
05-16-2016, 10:35 AM
I am ashamed to be born an non Muslim , i was born here and lived my life here
what they plan to do is immoral and its people like David Cameron and others like him who makes me ashamed of this country:facepalm:
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
It's not going to be any better in the U.S. if that idiot Trump gets elected. Many Muslims are waking up from their secular slumber party and coming back to the Quran and Sunnah and yearning to establish Shariah back on earth. They realize Democracy is utter nonsense, man-made laws don't fulfill justice and the societies of the West are becoming more immoral. The disbelievers do not fight Islam because its a religion, they fight it because its also a socio-economic and political system of life that governs all of man's needs. The allies of the Shaytan vs. the allies of the Merciful. This is the natural confrontation that is suppose to happen towards the end times.
Trump is such a troll. I honestly for the life of me cannot believe how stupid the american people are who voted for him :Emoji7: I can't see him ever actually being elected, I think it's just hype. Like a TV show...

You dodged my question by the way. Do you think IS are the best of Muslims? Is this really the environment you want to bring your kids up in?

I could not imagine living in an environment where I cannot leave the house with my husband and have to wear a burka and cannot get a job or an education. Alhamdulillah I don't live there and Inshallah IS are defeated soon along with Assad and Syria can sleep peacefully once again.
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Serinity
05-16-2016, 12:34 PM
Now the kuffar are trying to define the religion for us?!

Nay, we will never let them, they are only trying to make us go back on our heels to disbelief, so we'd be like them. But that won't happen.

Islam is more than just religion, it governs all aspects of life, to court, to government, to how people should behave, talk, etc.

Every rule in Islam is for our own benefit.
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Misbah0411
05-16-2016, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You dodged my question by the way. Do you think IS are the best of Muslims? Is this really the environment you want to bring your kids up in?

I could not imagine living in an environment where I cannot leave the house with my husband and have to wear a burka and cannot get a job or an education. Alhamdulillah I don't live there and Inshallah IS are defeated soon along with Assad and Syria can sleep peacefully once again.
I didn't dodge anything because I don't know. I will tell you that I don't take for truth what the disbelievers say about them in the Mainstream Media or the hypocrites that permeate this Ummah. I am not going to talk bad about those that could be the Mujahadeen fighting for the sake of Allah. For the Mujahadeen are the best of creation and those closest to Allah. Who else are trying to establish the pure Shariah of Allah on earth and not compromising with their deen? Does the Islamic State come off as harsh. Yes. Do they have reasons to do so. Allah Alim. You don't know either because you get your information from Western Media like I do. But the difference is I take their news with a grain of salt.
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Serinity
05-16-2016, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
I didn't dodge anything because I don't know. I will tell you that I don't take for truth what the disbelievers say about them in the Mainstream Media or the hypocrites that permeate this Ummah. I am not going to talk bad about those that could be the Mujahadeen fighting for the sake of Allah. For the Mujahadeen are the best of creation and those closest to Allah. Who else are trying to establish the pure Shariah of Allah on earth and not compromising with their deen? Does the Islamic State come off as harsh. Yes. Do they have reasons to do so. Allah Alim. You don't know either because you get your information from Western Media like I do. But the difference is I take their news with a grain of salt.
True, especially knowing how the disbelievers in Mecca at the time of the Prophet SAW, who defamed the Prophet SAW etc. Persecuted them, and even lied to the Christian King, Negus (afaik)

Perhaps they are doing the same here. Perhaps they are forced to fight back. Allahu alam.

I will stay neutral, cuz:

A. IS may be right.
B. May be wrong.

Because: Idk. Therefore I will just follow Islam, and leave the rest to Allah SWT.
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Misbah0411
05-16-2016, 09:53 PM
There is such a dislike for those that strive in the cause of Allah amongst those Muslims with weak iman, who are ignorant of their Deen, the hypocrites, the palace scholars and the Modernist Deviants that want to be so much like the kuffar in their customs, laws and behaviors that when the Mahdi comes he will most likely also be rejected by the Muslims for striving to fight the Dajjal. They will tell him, "hey stop, there is only "defensive Jihad" or we are living in the "Meccan Phase" or Shariah is not applicable in the 21st century blah, blah, blah. I wonder if they will also do the same with Isa, son of Mary, a.s. when he comes to finish off the Dajjal and all the fitnah he will bring.
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Who else are trying to establish the pure Shariah of Allah on earth and not compromising with their deen?
Compromising their deen? What deen is that exactly? Because every major scholar has rejected them and condemns them. Even Sheikh Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi rejects them and he is a direct descendent of the prophet pbuh so I have no idea who you're listening to or what you think you know but when every major scholar and every Islamic country on the planet denounces them, they're probably not the good guys. I mean I'm not an expect but the evidence seems pretty overwhelming to me.

Sure you have your odd scholar here and there who agrees with them but you also have your odd American who agrees with the KKK.

Yeah, I'm sure everything they do is a lie portrayed by the western governments... Seems legit. What about Al-Jazeera? They're not western and when they report the same stories as western media, it's hardly fabricated.

Do they (IS) believe what they're doing is good and that they're the best of Muslims? Probably, this does not mean it's correct.

Do I want them to be killed? No.. I'd rather they just stopped and assisted the FSA in toppling Assad, but if killing them is the only option then so be it.

By the way have you every asked yourself why no country implements the Sharia fully? It's because a tiny percent of the Muslim world actually want it.

You act like IS are fighting for all of the Muslim Ummah lol... When 99.9% of the muslim ummah doesn't even agree with them haha. Cmon bro open your eyes. :uuh:

Lastly if you're all for the Sharia why not move to a country which implements at least some of it? Like Saudi Arabia or heaven forbid IS itself. You'll soon realise just how much you prefer kufr land ;) It may be corrupt, it may be immoral, it may be non islamic but there's a reason you've stayed in the west... it's because deep down it's not as bad as some make it out to be.
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muslimah_B
05-16-2016, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
There is such a dislike for those that strive in the cause of Allah amongst those Muslims with weak iman, who are ignorant of their Deen, the hypocrites, the palace scholars and the Modernist Deviants that want to be so much like the kuffar in their customs, laws and behaviors that when the Mahdi comes he will most likely also be rejected by the Muslims for striving to fight the Dajjal. They will tell him, "hey stop, there is only "defensive Jihad" or we are living in the "Meccan Phase" or Shariah is not applicable in the 21st century blah, blah, blah. I wonder if they will also do the same with Isa, son of Mary, a.s. when he comes to finish off the Dajjal and all the fitnah he will bring.
What are palace scholars ?

I agree with you but you have to admit there are muslims out there who are commiting atrocities and use the name of Islam as their defence, it isnt just the media talking about them, but also muslims in that paticular country speaking out against them, others are for them...
We dont know as we arent over there witnessing it first hand, but we cannot deny these things are happening against muslims aswell..
Eg suicide bombing - where is that allowed in sharia or the rules of warfare which are very explicit.
Even Allah says we are not to kill ourselves

It was narrated from Thaabit ibn al-Dahhaak (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever kills himself with something in this world will be punished with it on the Day of Resurrection.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5700; Muslim, 110.*

O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only [in lawful] business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.And whoever does that in aggression and injustice - then We will drive him into a Fire. And that, for Allah , is [always] easy. [4:29-30)

Those who are just defending their country and their people, driving out the enemy... perfectly fine as long as the rules of warefare as per sharia are met.

Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:

1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan*Abu Dawud)

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari,*Sahih Muslim)

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad*Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan*Abu Dawud)

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan*Abu Dawud).

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they*commit*evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
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muslimah_B
05-16-2016, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Compromising their deen? What deen is that exactly? Because every major scholar has rejected them and condemns them. Even Sheikh Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi rejects them and he is a direct descendent of the prophet pbuh so I have no idea who you're listening to or what you think you know but when every major scholar and every Islamic country on the planet denounces them, they're probably not the good guys. I mean I'm not an expect but the evidence seems pretty overwhelming to me.

Sure you have your odd scholar here and there who agrees with them but you also have your odd American who agrees with the KKK.

Yeah, I'm sure everything they do is a lie portrayed by the western governments... Seems legit. What about Al-Jazeera? They're not western and when they report the same stories as western media, it's hardly fabricated.

Do they (IS) believe what they're doing is good and that they're the best of Muslims? Probably, this does not mean it's correct.

Do I want them to be killed? No.. I'd rather they just stopped and assisted the FSA in toppling Assad, but if killing them is the only option then so be it.

By the way have you every asked yourself why no country implements the Sharia fully? It's because a tiny percent of the Muslim world actually want it.

You act like IS are fighting for all of the Muslim Ummah lol... When 99.9% of the muslim ummah doesn't even agree with them haha. Cmon bro open your eyes. :uuh:

Lastly if you're all for the Sharia why not move to a country which implements at least some of it? Like Saudi Arabia or heaven forbid IS itself. You'll soon realise just how much you prefer kufr land ;) It may be corrupt, it may be immoral, it may be non islamic but there's a reason you've stayed in the west... it's because deep down it's not as bad as some make it out to be.
Sis i have to disagree with you on the sharia point....
The sharia is the law of Allah and it may seem *harsh* in certain aspects but who are we to question what Allah says or prophet mohammed s.a.w says in regards to hudud..
No country on this earth follows the sharia correctly, the appointed judge selected has to have absolute astounding knowledge of Quran sunnah fiqh EVERYTHING and ontop of that have a beautiful character, that when giving judgements does not rely on how they feel but only on what the law states.
People have a misconception about the whole process of sharia even muslims themselves believe the western way it is potrayed when it is far more complex than they know.
Lets say for instance someone is caught stealing people think the hand is automatically cut off... NO they go through a trial witnesses are brought foward and the acussed has a chance to say his case, if for instance he stole as he has no means to feed his family and is not able to provide, he will not have the hudud punishment, he may be let go, fined or imprisoned.
The sharia is beautiful and not black and white as people make it out to be

Western countries people dealing drugs get more jail time than people who murder, rape, and touch children..
Sharia now, these people wouldnt see the light of day or be executed
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Misbah0411
05-16-2016, 10:32 PM
Al-Jazeera is corrupt. Like I said, I am not going to speak ill of those who may be Mujahadeen. A Muslim is no Muslim who does not want to be governed by the Law of Allah. A Muslim is one who submits his will to the Will of Allah. Allah's Will is for us to be governed by His Law. Not Democracy, communism, socialism and every ism under the sun. I was born in the U.S. and a revert. But where am I going to go to live in a Muslim land that implements Shariah? I would need a sponsor to live in Saudi Arabia. I would get arrested like many others to make hijrah to the I.S. The rest of the Muslim countries live under secular law like the U.S. I don't prefer Dar ul Kufr. I would have no problem living under Shariah because I try to implement Shariah to the best of my ability on myself. I don't go out in society after work because of the fitnah. I am not like you, Al-Hamdulilah. And instead of worrying about the issue of the Islamic State and who of the Muslims scholars say about them or how the Muslims don't want to live under Shariah, you should get your affairs in order and drop that kaffir boyfriend that you have been having a relationship with and focus on learning your Islam and the concept of Wala and Bara. Your response in this thread is not surprising considering the nonsense you have been posting the past month.
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan*Abu Dawud).
They've burnt to death a dozen people so far. Every execution video is different and now they even have children as young as 11 executing enemies. Prophet Muhammad instructed us to treat a prisoner well. Instead they blow their heads off, literally with cable wire around their necks, they drown them, burn them alive, and even kill the very people who go out there to document and raise awareness to the horrors of the Syrian Regime.

They detonate suicide vests at football stadiums in Iraq... There is not even western people there! Only Muslims... They make car bombs outside a cafe in Baghdad just a few days ago killing 15 Muslim football fans...

They are the worst of Muslims and most scholars agree.
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Al-Jazeera is corrupt.
ah yes.. everything is corrupt, everyone is corrupt, CIA and NSA everywhere in every media outlet.

Listen to yourself... This is what not being educated does to you. It makes you think the whole world is against you and turn you into a paranoid hater.
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
No country on this earth follows the sharia correctly, the appointed judge selected has to have absolute astounding knowledge of Quran sunnah fiqh EVERYTHING and ontop of that have a beautiful character
Like Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi and his measly 5 year degree lol? What about the scholars who study for 17 years?!
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Misbah0411
05-16-2016, 10:45 PM
"They are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not (to the Right Path)" (2:18)
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muslimah_B
05-16-2016, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Like Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi and his measly 5 year degree lol? What about the scholars who study for 17 years?!
Judges are chosen by the people of knowledge they have to come to a consensus , no-one can self appoint themself....
no a 5 year degree would qualify one to be a Alim or Alima.. not a judge... a judge will know islam inside out arabic inside out...
a judge will be judging important issues which can include hudud punishments wich can be execution, amputation and exile etc , you need years of solid understanding of every single thing that makes islam... islamic law is a very hard subject as there are so many different situations that can arise and they must use their judgement accordingly or they may face the wrath of Allah which is why their character counts just as much as their knowledge
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EgyptPrincess
05-16-2016, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Judges are chosen by the people of knowledge they have to come to a consensus , no-one can self appoint themself....
no a 5 year degree would qualify one to be a Alim or Alima.. not a judge... a judge will know islam inside out arabic inside out...
a judge will be judging important issues which can include hudud punishments wich can be execution, amputation and exile etc , you need years of solid understanding of every single thing that makes islam... islamic law is a very hard subject as there are so many different situations that can arise and they must use their judgement accordingly or they may face the wrath of Allah which is why their character counts just as much as their knowledge
This is what I am saying sister, Baghdadi appointed himself and nations, scholars and the vast majority of the ummah / Ulema do not recognise him as any sort of leader or caliphate. He thinks because he has 5 years of knowledge from Baghdad university that he qualifies for such a role. Imam Shafi' studied the religion for 17 years... There are several scholars who have 15+ years of Islamic teaching who openly condemn IS so how some can sit here and think that IS and their Kim Jung-Un style leader are legit is laughable.
@Misbah0411 So you're saying you're scared of the U.S government that they might imprison you for trying to go? Real believers in IS would swim to Syria's shores or die trying. You're just using "getting caught and imprisoned" to excuse yourself from even trying. Now I'm not encouraging you do go there of course but don't pretend to yourself it's for any other reason other than you're scared of making that kind of commitment. Be honest to yourself because Allah knows the true reason why you don't go.
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Bhabha
05-17-2016, 03:31 AM
First of all, "precision" bombing is not precise at all. Secondly, where they drop these bombs remains the after effect of depleted uranium that is toxic in the short term and long term for people, animals and wild life that feeds off the water and the soil.
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 10:07 AM
Beware of the media, the communists back in the day deluded their people and controlled the media, and used propaganda to demonize the Nazis, etc.

What about today? Perhaps they are even more professional in cheating us. Consider that IS may be good, and that they are on Haqq, what would you think of the Media?

The ones who control the media, are the same people who allow immoral stuff, like sodomy, illegal sexual intercourse, prostitutes, rapists, etc. free. The rapists are not punished with due punishment, etc.

How could you then trust them?
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Misbah0411
05-17-2016, 10:55 AM
If Muslims can be deceived and misguided by the Mainstream Media of the kuffar then how easy will it be when the Dajjal comes with his false miracles and "solutions" for mankind. Secondly, there are a lot of Muslims living in the West who are put off and attack the Mujahadeen because they don't want the Mujahadeen making waves for them and they feel compelled to distance themselves and appease the kuffar so living in their comfy delusional lifestyles won't be disrupted in any way. I got news for all of us. Allah will continue to humilate us by the hands of the disbelievers until we wake up from our slumber and return to the Deen in full submission. It will continue to get worse for the Muslims living in the West. It is a trial and a test for all of us. Some of the Muslims will falter and some succeed. May Allah keep us all steadfast in our Deen.
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_E_3
05-17-2016, 10:57 AM
I dont trust the UK government at all i am always been feeling like there is something off there
i cant put my finger on it
I am ashamed of the UK government what the UK government did to Palestine people and there holy wars
I cant understand why fight ?
Why not have peace
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 11:13 AM
The UK government are traitors and corrupters. They sent a deviant sect called qadiyanism or whatever it is called. Complete filth. How can we trust them when they use divide and conquer?

The UK's intentions for sending this devaint sect, with their falsehood and fake prophet. qadiyanism was to stop the Jihad. Afaik

Allahu alam.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 11:33 AM
Theyre all shaytan worshippers, and thats putting it lightly,

What is shaytans plan, to cause destruction and mischief in the land, and turn the muslims away from Allah and his deen.

But the fact is that it is not just the media portraying IS this way, there are also muslims who speak out against them, and there are seperate media outlets where they admit to causing carnage to innocent people and admit to the suicide bombings etc
, if this is indeed true how can you justify their actions, when above i posted the laws of warfare which are strict.
We can not deny that the majority of schloars and muftis have denounced them and told them to stop
Yes not everything is so black and white but there is alot of evidence against them and by knowledgeable people who are over there
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_E_3
05-17-2016, 11:39 AM
Unfortunately, i get my disability benefits from them, some times i think i shouldn't take the money and give it all to Brothers and Sisters who need food and a warm bed and to sleep safety
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan*Abu Dawud)
Does this apply to the kafir men who don't participate in the war ?

Btw, I read that there is an opposing opinion, which I read was valid. Scholars can confirm. Idk tho.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Does this apply to the kafir men who don't participate in the war ?

Btw, I read that there is an opposing opinion, which I read was valid. Scholars can confirm. Idk tho.
Kufr are not Muslims so of course they won't follow the Sharia when in war. Muslims during war have to follow the Sharia regardless of what rules the enemy follow. If kufr rape women in wartime, you think mujahideen also can rape? ^o)

You don't need to listen to media if you don't trust them, you don't need to listen to governments who you don't trust. Listen to the people of knowledge, the scholars. And not your backyard DIY scholars... no, listen to the ones with decades of knowledge.

... I'm not confused. If you're confused then you have not studied this religion.
And if you think this is anything to do with truth, you definitely have not studied this religion.
Nobody wants to follow the people of knowledge, that's the first thing, the people of knowledge have no voice any more.
It's just all these young boys out there on Google. That's who rules this religion.
Not people that will spend 20 years to studied the religion.
The CIA had a fact sheet that estimated only 1.5million Muslims in the entire world support IS. There is a difference though, supporting Al-Qaeda, JN etc is not the same thing... So in terms of IS supporters, only 1.5million Muslims in the world support them. Give yourself a back on the back for being the uneducated <0.1%.


There's a good reason why Muslims the world over are not flocking to IS... it's not because they're brainwashed, no, quite the opposite... It's because they're educated.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Does this apply to the kafir men who don't participate in the war ?

Btw, I read that there is an opposing opinion, which I read was valid. Scholars can confirm. Idk tho.
It does i remember reading hadeeths on it and in the quran that as soon as they stop fighting you, you must stop fighting them.
I honeslty havent read or heard scholars allowing it can you post it so i can read it in sha Allah ?
Our deen isnt passive but it isnt immoral where you kill people who have nothing to do with the war or those who surrender...
But thats why we have people of knowledge who will fill in the grey areas for us, not us laymen who cannot give fatwa or have such a vast understanding of everything in deen.
Like remember non-believers used to live alongside prophet mohammed s.a.w in peace at some point... not ALL kaffir are evil or wanting to harm us or are our enemy (which is what the real EXTREMISTS believe)

“…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” - (5:32).
"They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.[4.89]
"Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them." [4.90]**
"You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given. you a clear authority" [4.91]

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." [60:8]

"Fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress, for Allah does not love transgressors." [2.190]
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 12:20 PM
you didn't understand me. I said does the ruling include the kafir men who are healthy but don't participate in war?

I want scholar's input. And Allah SWT knows best.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 12:22 PM
Ok give me a moment to find it in sha Allah
In the meantime can you post where it says they are not included in sha Allah
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 12:29 PM
I am asking cuz I am confused myself lol. Idk even if that opinion is valid, tbh.

I just want clarity. Cuz the hadith doesn't say "healthy men" just elderly and sick. No healthy men..
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 12:38 PM
Anyway all of this will be obsolete in the next 5 years. IS will just be another name like the hundreds of others, most of which you probably do not even know their names. Inshallah Allah will pull the ground for beneath their feet.

Many have tried, all have failed. Bare in mind that the U.S could just drop a nuke in Raqqa and instantly vaporise 20,000 mujahideen in a heartbeat but they won't... because the loss of civilian life is too great.

IS vs The World is a battle that simple cannot be won, unless Allah swt allows it. So far it doesn't look like Allah is allowing it lol.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I am asking cuz I am confused myself lol. Idk even if that opinion is valid, tbh.

I just want clarity. Cuz the hadith doesn't say "healthy men" just elderly and sick. No healthy men..
Then go to your local real life scholar. Not Google.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I am asking cuz I am confused myself lol. Idk even if that opinion is valid, tbh.

I just want clarity. Cuz the hadith doesn't say "healthy men" just elderly and sick. No healthy men..
Lol Im looking through my law books and hadeeths books to see if its explained, i tried online and well it was just a bunch of trash against islam whenever i typed it in (fail)
Its taking longer than i expected to find anything to do with "jihad" or "islamic jurisprudence on war" its like its been censored lol [emoji53]
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Lol Im looking through my law books and hadeeths books to see if its explained, i tried online and well it was just a bunch of trash against islam whenever i typed it in (fail)
Its taking longer than i expected to find anything to do with "jihad" or "islamic jurisprudence on war" its like its been censored lol [emoji53]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami..._jurisprudence

I know it's wiki hehe but the sources are linked at the bottom. Perhaps it might be somewhere in there what you're looking for?


You are going to enter Egypt a land where qirat (money unit) is used. Be extremely good to them as they have with us close ties and marriage relationships. When you enter Egypt after my death, recruit many soldiers from among the Egyptians because they are the best soldiers on earth, as they and their wives are permanently on duty until the Day of Resurrection. Be good to the Copts of Egypt; you shall take them over, but they shall be your instrument and help. Be Righteous to God about the Copts.

Ah yeh.. the Egyptians :D :P
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami..._jurisprudence

I know it's wiki hehe but the sources are linked at the bottom. Perhaps it might be somewhere in there what you're looking for?





Ah yeh.. the Egyptians :D :P

During battle the Qur'an commands Muslims to fight against the enemy. However, there are exceptions to such combat. Torturing the enemy, and burning the combatants alive is strictly prohibited
Jordanian pilot :(

Women and children prisoners of war cannot be killed under any circumstances, regardless of their religious convictions
Yazidis :(
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 01:09 PM
I looked at the wiki page

And i cant find anything that explains the hadeeth wether the kaffir men who choose not to fight are also left alone, or still considerd as part of waging the war..
Would actually need a sheik or mufti to clarify, as from my small understanding the people of knowledge declare jihad and would mention the grey areas depending on who exactly they are fighting against
Allah knows best
Reply

Serinity
05-17-2016, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Anyway all of this will be obsolete in the next 5 years. IS will just be another name like the hundreds of others, most of which you probably do not even know their names. Inshallah Allah will pull the ground for beneath their feet.

Many have tried, all have failed. Bare in mind that the U.S could just drop a nuke in Raqqa and instantly vaporise 20,000 mujahideen in a heartbeat but they won't... because the loss of civilian life is too great.

IS vs The World is a battle that simple cannot be won, unless Allah swt allows it. So far it doesn't look like Allah is allowing it lol.
IF they are really Mujahideen then what you just said could be kufr, for why would you want Mujahideens killed?!

Anyways, this is my stance, as of now>

To kill any non-combatant, regardless of religion, is haram? (Idk) but this is what my conscience says.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
IF they are really Mujahideen then what you just said could be kufr, for why would you want Mujahideens killed?!
Honestly brother IF they where the mujahideens, then every scholar would claim them as that, and tell the believing people to make hijra to the lands that are in their controll.
The scholars right now are denouncing them and saying their actions are unislamic and to stop, we are "laymens" even if we are students or seeking knowledge, we must look to the knowledgeable for advice and answers

But all in all Allah knows best
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Honestly brother IF they where the mujahideens, then every scholar would claim them as that, and tell the believing people to make hijra to the lands that are in their controll.
The scholars right now are denouncing them and saying their actions are unislamic and to stop, we are "laymens" even if we are students or seeking knowledge, we must look to the knowledgeable for advice and answers

But all in all Allah knows best
True.. And judging from the media, the killings of ISIS are too frequent to be just because of punishment. Ps. AFAIK, they let KIDS do the executions, which I know the Prophet SAW would NEVER allow.

But their nasheeds are AWESOME.
Allahu alam, tho.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
IF they are really Mujahideen then what you just said could be kufr, for why would you want Mujahideens killed?!

Anyways, this is my stance, as of now>

To kill any non-combatant, regardless of religion, is haram? (Idk) but this is what my conscience says.
I used the word Mujahideen because this is what you call them. I do not consider them soldiers of Allah no... I consider them misguided delusional fighters. FSA are Mujahideen, people who truly fight for the Syrian people...

I would love to see FSA stomp assads palace into the ground :) IS are nothing more than delusional hate filled thugs. May Allah grant them vision and put them back on the correct path.

Establish a Sharia based state by all means... but do it the correct way. Not by bludgeoning everyone who stands in their way, 99% of whom are Muslims! The west doesn't need to slaughter Muslims because Muslims are slaughtering each other... Why do a job which is already being done for you?

Imagine the power if all these off-shoot groups and IS combined together into toppling Assad only. Assad would have been gone a long time ago. Instead they're too focused on fighting their own brothers. smh
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I used the word Mujahideen because this is what you call them. I do not consider them soldiers of Allah no... I consider them misguided delusional fighters. FSA are Mujahideen, people who truly fight for the Syrian people...

I would love to see FSA stomp assads palace into the ground :) IS are nothing more than delusional hate filled thugs. May Allah grant them vision and put them back on the correct path.

Establish a Sharia based state by all means... but do it the correct way. Not by bludgeoning everyone who stands in their way, 99% of whom are Muslims! The west doesn't need to slaughter Muslims because Muslims are slaughtering each other... Why do a job which is already being done for you?

Imagine the power if all these off-shoot groups and IS combined together into toppling Assad only. Assad would have been gone a long time ago. Instead they're too focused on fighting their own brothers. smh
I don't get why they are fighting each other, just beat that Assad guy, and why are they fighting eachother? aren't they on the same Aqeedah? IF soo, why disunite on small issues when Aqeedah is on point (assuming their's is, if not, may Allah SWT guide them, Ameen)

And Allah SWT knows best.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I don't get why they are fighting each other, just beat that Assad guy, and why are they fighting eachother? aren't they on the same Aqeedah? IF soo, why disunite on small issues when Aqeedah is on point (assuming their's is, if not, may Allah SWT guide them, Ameen)

And Allah SWT knows best.
God only knows. I think it's just a disagreement on things. IS disagree with JN and FSA about something so they call them khawarij, munafiq and declare them enemies.

"Only an idiot tries to fight a war on two fronts, and only a madman tries to fight on three"

IS are fighting on about 8 different fronts, spreading their fighters far and wide. These fighters have the heart and the will to win but they just don't have the tactics, strategy, weaponry or manpower to win.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
True.. And judging from the media, the killings of ISIS are too frequent to be just because of punishment. Ps. AFAIK, they let KIDS do the executions, which I know the Prophet SAW would NEVER allow.

But their nasheeds are AWESOME.
Allahu alam, tho.
Exactly
Which is why we should denounce their ACTIONS and ask Allah to guide them
Alot of the crimes they have commited they have even said yes its them, they admit to these atrocities which is NO WAY allowed in sharia
Burning people alive - punishment by fire is only allowed by Allah
Killing innocents and other muslims is a major sin
Never would prophet mohammed s.a.w allow these things when he s.a.w explicitly spoke out against these things
And the 10 rules of engagement in warfare was compiled by Abu Bakr al-Siddiq,
They "IS" need to turn their attention to the ground troops in the muslim countries who are commiting attrocities to our brothers and sisters, invading their lands and help those brothers who are actually attacking the enemy NOT innocents or trangressing the limits put down by Allah and our pious predecessors

There was a video on youtube of a scholar even stating that people should not go to syria to fight as there is so much people fighting eachother that no-one knows who is fighting who and you could shed the blood of a innocent muslim and have the wrath of Allah upon you
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Exactly
Which is why we should denounce their ACTIONS and ask Allah to guide them
Alot of the crimes they have commited they have even said yes its them, they admit to these atrocities which is NO WAY allowed in sharia
Burning people alive - punishment by fire is only allowed by Allah
Killing innocents and other muslims is a major sin
Never would prophet mohammed s.a.w allow these things when he s.a.w explicitly spoke out against these things
And the 10 rules of engagement in warfare was compiled by Abu Bakr al-Siddiq,
They "IS" need to turn their attention to the ground troops in the muslim countries who are commiting attrocities to our brothers and sisters, invading their lands and help those brothers who are actually attacking the enemy NOT innocents or trangressing the limits put down by Allah and our pious predecessors

There was a video on youtube of a scholar even stating that people should not go to syria to fight as there is so much people fighting eachother that no-one knows who is fighting who and you could shed the blood of a innocent muslim and have the wrath of Allah upon you
There was once when the sahabah Ali r.a. used fire. I think, any scholar can confirm, or was it by accident & ignorance?

BUT seriously, Killing INNOCENTS, whether muslims or kafirs, is prohibited, right?

but it is the media, but judging from the media, it looks unislamic, but Allahu alam. There is too much conflict, one doesn't even know WHY they are fighting. To Establish the Shariah, and Al-Islam?

Do it by dialogue. I think.

Allahu alam.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
There was once when the sahabah Ali r.a. used fire. I think, any scholar can confirm, or was it by accident & ignorance?

BUT seriously, Killing INNOCENTS, whether muslims or kafirs, is prohibited, right?

but it is the media, but judging from the media, it looks unislamic, but Allahu alam. There is too much conflict, one doesn't even know WHY they are fighting. To Establish the Shariah, and Al-Islam?

Do it by dialogue. I think.

Allahu alam.
There is no official islamic media outlet, we have to rely on scholars and sometimes youtbe videos of those muslims in those specific countries who are witnessing it 1st hand.
I would never encourage anyone wether muslim or not to watch the news on tv, i remember when isreal(the devils) where bombing palestine and the news tried to potray a bombed area as it was in isreal when in actuall fact it was in palestine !!! To make it out that isreal where the victims !!!!
Yes killing innocents wether muslim or non muslim is not allowed.... UNLESS it is for self defence or they are fighting you.
If they surrender and are not fighting they are not allowed to be harmed i posted the evidences up before.

Honeslty jihad is a hard topic because there are 2 types.
For physical jihad only those who are knowledgeable can declare jihad not the laymen or "common folk"
Those who go to fight have to do so by their own will and be of sane mind and of a certain age (there was a story of boy who was young who wanted to fight but wasnt allowed and kept begging to fight, he was only allowed to feed the soldiers not partake in the fighting)<<< i will try to find the story and post it its just been a while so i may not be explaining it properly)
Jihad is for fighting for the sake of Allah agaisnt the enemies of Allah and islam only, not for attacking or killing people who have no concept of the war or not an enemy
A lot of these extremists claim that the whole entire west is against islam, yes there are people in the west who are the enemies of islam that does not mean to say ALL of the people in the west are enemies... there are practising muslims in the west ! There are kuffar in the west who dont care that there are practising muslims and are happy to live among them.
How can we bring people to islam if people think that kuffar are the enemy... All reverts at one point where disbelievers !!
Even some of the sahaba where disbeliever but they became muslim !!!
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Muezzin
05-17-2016, 03:50 PM
We're straying from the topic somewhat. Which is about David Cameron forcing the 'extremist mosques' to shut down.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 03:57 PM
@muslimah_B Which is why it's imperative to condemn these (IS) people and show the kufr the true peace of Islam. It's not about pleasing the kufr, it's about trying to get as many of them to turn to Allah swt and the prophet saw. How will they ever see the light of Islam if all they see are these clowns blowing up restaurants and and football stadiums?

Muslims today have a big responsibility to try and educate the kufr. We should be calling as many to Islam as possible for the sake of Allah, not to turn them away from us. Allah knows best but I am sure Allah would value recruitment based on peace and not blood-thirst.

The prophet saw did not force people to Islam and he did not kill those who did not follow him. Yes he defended his people and land with the sword when it was required.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
@muslimah_B Which is why it's imperative to condemn these (IS) people and show the kufr the true peace of Islam. It's not about pleasing the kufr, it's about trying to get as many of them to turn to Allah swt and the prophet saw. How will they ever see the light of Islam if all they see are these clowns blowing up restaurants and and football stadiums?

Muslims today have a big responsibility to try and educate the kufr. We should be calling as many to Islam as possible for the sake of Allah, not to turn them away from us. Allah knows best but I am sure Allah would value recruitment based on peace and not blood-thirst.

The prophet saw did not force people to Islam and he did not kill those who did not follow him. Yes he defended his people and land with the sword when it was required.
This is the problem though
Muslims are divided from the tiniest of things i.e where to put hand for prayer (some take it too far) to the bigger things i.e cursing the mothers of believers (as to wether we can claim some shia to be muslims is up for debate as there is evidence against and for,, so i say up to Allah)
Denying the hadeeths etc etc
Untill the muslims are united upon "la ilaha illaha" we are going to continually see these freaks come out (as to some i have no idea how they can call themselves muslims the things they claim is quite frankly shirk and against Allah)

We have some muslims who agree with the actions of "is" and even want to go over there or carry out acts in their countries and harm those who they believe are enemies, and when you dont agree with them they call you hippocrite or kufr (Astagfirllah) even when you show then proofs.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 04:49 PM
This is certainly a deep issue within the ummah and one which would take some serious politics to fix.
Reply

muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
This is certainly a deep issue within the ummah and one which would take some serious politics to fix.
I honeslty cant remember the hadeeth where it states the times when there will be a muslim state wether it will be when the medhi comes, when Isa a.s comes down or even before them

Forgive me my brain is frazzled and i sometimes forget the order of how they go and i dont want to give false or mixed up information
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
I honeslty cant remember the hadeeth where it states the times when there will be a muslim state wether it will be when the medhi comes, when Isa a.s comes down or even before them

Forgive me my brain is frazzled and i sometimes forget the order of how they go and i dont want to give false or mixed up information
Speaking of Mahdi and signs. This reminded me of a video. Have a watch of this

Amazing video
Reply

muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Speaking of Mahdi and signs. This reminded me of a video. Have a watch of this

Amazing video
Thankss sis will defo give a watch before i sleep in sha Allah [emoji173] [emoji173]
Reply

Serinity
05-17-2016, 05:51 PM
I want to see a TRUE UNITED Islamic State.
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BeTheChange
05-17-2016, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
how this idiot got elected is beyond me.... we should ban all these idiots, who make the stupidest ideas and decisions ever !

do we know which masjid are being targeted to be closed down ?
Aslamaualykum sister,

Well sister it is a reflection of the times we are living in and we know the situation will get much worse.

The Prophet said saw, 'The Hour will come when leaders are oppressors, when people believe in the stars and reject al-Qadar (the Divine Decree of destiny) when a trust becomes a way of making a profit, when people give to charity (Sadaqah) reluctantly, when adultery becomes widespread - when this happens, then your people will perish.'"

May Allah swt help us all preserve our emaan Ameen
Reply

muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by BeTheChange
Aslamaualykum sister,

Well sister it is a reflection of the times we are living in and we know the situation will get much worse.

The Prophet said saw, 'The Hour will come when leaders are oppressors, when people believe in the stars and reject al-Qadar (the Divine Decree of destiny) when a trust becomes a way of making a profit, when people give to charity (Sadaqah) reluctantly, when adultery becomes widespread - when this happens, then your people will perish.'"

May Allah swt help us all preserve our emaan Ameen
Walaykum asalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu

Alhamdulilah
I know, but its still so dumbfounding how these people get into power, then we look at these hadeeths and signs of the day of judgment and more and more keep happening right infront of our eyes.
I know its already foretold it would happen but its still shocking when it happens as they are complete "fools"
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Walaykum asalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu

Alhamdulilah
I know, but its still so dumbfounding how these people get into power, then we look at these hadeeths and signs of the day of judgment and more and more keep happening right infront of our eyes.
I know its already foretold it would happen but its still shocking when it happens as they are complete "fools"
It's because they're master manipulators. Obama can talk his way out of ANY situation lol he is an incredible spokesman. Cameron is good at convincing people that what he says is true... It's just manipulation.

Let's just assume for a moment that Sharia law ruled the UK and it was the Muslim population who had to appoint a leader. How on Earth would we decide? There would be fighting because some people disagree and others like Shia don't get a voice it would just be a nightmare. I mean is there anyone in the UK at the moment who is even qualified for the task?

Secularism may create corruption but at least it's stable... There would undoubtedly be corruption in ANY political system. Humans are not perfect and we never will be. Life is complex, people are complex, it takes hard work and time to iron out the wrinkles. Look how far we've come from 300 years ago.
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 07:39 PM
The Shariah Law is the best Law. To favour a law above the Shariah would be kufr. Afaik.

And NO it won't be a nightmare if we turn to the Quran and let Allah SWT choose and decide for us. Turning to the Quran and The Sunnah is the solution.

Our leader and role model is the Prophet SAW, our Lord is Allah SWT.

It is negative people that will be a hindrance. we should turn to how the Sahabahs r.a. did, etc.
Oh and btw, the Shariah Law is pure and free from any corruption.

The Shariah is far more stable than any man made law, it is perfect!
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
The Shariah Law is the best Law. To favour a law above the Shariah would be kufr. Afaik.

And NO it won't be a nightmare if we turn to the Quran and let Allah SWT choose and decide for us. Turning to the Quran and The Sunnah is the solution.

Our leader and role model is the Prophet SAW, our Lord is Allah SWT.

It is negative people that will be a hindrance. we should turn to how the Sahabahs r.a. did, etc.
Oh and btw, the Shariah Law is pure and free from any corruption.

The Shariah is far more stable than any man made law, it is perfect!
I never said Sharia is corrupt... but people are. Just because someone follows the Sharia does not mean they cannot cause corruption. Like I said there are always corrupt people.
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I never said Sharia is corrupt... but people are. Just because someone follows the Sharia does not mean they cannot cause corruption. Like I said there are always corrupt people.
If someone follows the Shariah, he won't cause corruption.

But there are people who use the shariah to cause corruption, which is different from those who follow it.

Idk when there will ever be a Khalifah. Allahu alam.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
If someone follows the Shariah, he won't cause corruption.
Bold statement. Ignorant.
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Bold statement. Ignorant.
You didn't understand me did you? IF someone follows the Shariah Law completely or to his best ability, then how would he cause corruption?

Cause the Shariah spreads purity, etc. So the one who follows it, becomes purified too.
Doesn't make sense. But it'd make sense to say that "people use the Shariah to cause corruption" or something.

I guess there was a misunderstanding.

Anyways, may Allah SWT curse Assad and bring upon him the greatest punishment. Ameen.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
You didn't understand me did you? IF someone follows the Shariah Law completely or to his best ability, then how would he cause corruption?

Cause the Shariah spreads purity, etc. So the one who follows it, becomes purified too.

By you saying those who FOLLOW the Shariah, can cause corruption, you are implying that the SHARIAH can cause corruption, audhu billah!

Doesn't make sense. But it'd make sense to say that "people use the Shariah to cause corruption" or something.

Anyways, may Allah SWT curse Assad and bring upon him the greatest punishment. Ameen.
Dude what planet are you living on?

You can take the most devoted pious Muslim on the planet and he still might decide to break the law of Sharia at some point. Obviously those who follow the Sharia law are by definition law abiding citizens but they have within themselves the ability to break that law if they so decide.

Think about what you're saying. You're saying that if Sharia was implemented in the UK. Then automatically everyone who follows it "ie lives under it" can never commit a crime or cause corruption? If that was the case the Sharia would not have punishments in it... because by your logic it's impossible to commit a crime LOL.

What if the caliphate (real caliphate) one day decided to steal another countries oil. You think this action is impossible?! No... Sharia says it's impossible (ie don't steal), but the caliphate is just a man and that man is not perfect.

Please think before you speak. Perhaps you take a break from IB and gaming and learn do something to exercise your brain.
Reply

Serinity
05-17-2016, 09:10 PM
Meh, you took my post out of proportions. Anyways.

I know The Shariah is perfect, but the people are not, and we have free will, and therefore can do whatever we want, but The Shariah Law regulates our lives, and has punishments for crimes, etc.

Anyways. Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Meh, you took my post out of proportions. Anyways.

I know The Shariah is perfect, but the people are not, and we have free will, and therefore can do whatever we want, but The Shariah Law regulates our lives, and has punishments for crimes, etc.

Anyways. Allah SWT knows best.
So does secular law :) that doesn't stop people from breaking it :statisfie
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Serinity
05-17-2016, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
So does secular law :) that doesn't stop people from breaking it :statisfie
But secular law is corrupt by nature, and has flaws. Shariah doesn't, it is perfect. Shariah is above any law, perfect.

I prefer Shariah Law any day. Doing otherwise, would be kufr. Afaik.
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EgyptPrincess
05-17-2016, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
But secular law is corrupt by nature, and has flaws. Shariah doesn't, it is perfect. Shariah is above any law, perfect.

I prefer Shariah Law any day. Doing otherwise, would be kufr. Afaik.
Yes I'm not arguing with you. Even though I do not know any Sharia law, if it comes from Allah swt then it surely is the best.

My problem is how can we guarantee the people in charge of implement it do it fairly and just and do not cause any corruption? We cannot guarantee it... We can only guarantee it if they were prophets, which they are not.

People make mistakes, people fall into traps. This can happen to any person, even the caliphate (the real one)
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Karl
05-17-2016, 10:03 PM
Well that's what you get when you build mosques in Zionist Jewish Britain.
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muslimah_B
05-17-2016, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Well that's what you get when you build mosques in Zionist Jewish Britain.
There is a difference between "jews" and "zionists" we cant put them all in the same boat.

Well masjids are needed for the muslims who live here,
Taraweeh, jummah, 5 daily, and lectures, so they have to be built
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Yes I'm not arguing with you. Even though I do not know any Sharia law, if it comes from Allah swt then it surely is the best.

My problem is how can we guarantee the people in charge of implement it do it fairly and just and do not cause any corruption? We cannot guarantee it... We can only guarantee it if they were prophets, which they are not.

People make mistakes, people fall into traps. This can happen to any person, even the caliphate (the real one)
The Shariah is the Law of Allah SWT.
preferring a Law above Shariah is kufr.

one should try their best tho. we'll deal with stuff like that when it comes. And no, prophets aren't the only ones who we can guarantee. Many sahabahs were.

We can! By turning to the Quran and the Sunnah and unite under Tawheed! Let Allah SWT choose for us - not our own egos. Any reasonable Muslim man would find that fine.
Anyway,
Reply

Misbah0411
05-18-2016, 09:57 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
If someone follows the Shariah, he won't cause corruption.

But there are people who use the shariah to cause corruption, which is different from those who follow it.

Idk when there will ever be a Khalifah. Allahu alam.
You will find that those "would be" Muslims who don't want to live under the Law of Allah just want to follow their whims and desires for Shariah puts a stop to that.

44. "And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafirun " (5:44)

Ibn Taymiyah said: "There is no doubt that whoever does not believe in the obligation to rule according to the revelation of Allah is a kaffir. Whoever permits himself to rule people according to what he thinks is just without reference to the revelation of Allah is a kaffir. Indeed there is no nation which does not demand to be ruled with justice, but justice is contained in the Deen and not in the opinions of even the greatest leaders. It is true that many who have styled themselves Muslims ruled by their traditions which are not part of the Revelation, such was the case with the desert Arabs whose chiefs demand obedience and were of the opinion that one should rule by tradition rather than by the Book and the Sunnah. This is kufr. Although many submit to Islam, they continue to be ruled by the ancient practice which their rulers impose upon them. These rulers are told that it is not permitted for them to rule other than by the revelation of Allah and still they refuse, insisting upon a course which is at variance to the revelation of Allah. They are considered disbelievers."
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Serinity
05-18-2016, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
You will find that those "would be" Muslims who don't want to live under the Law of Allah just want to follow their whims and desires for Shariah puts a stop to that.

44. "And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafirun " (5:44)

Ibn Taymiyah said: "There is no doubt that whoever does not believe in the obligation to rule according to the revelation of Allah is a kaffir. Whoever permits himself to rule people according to what he thinks is just without reference to the revelation of Allah is a kaffir. Indeed there is no nation which does not demand to be ruled with justice, but justice is contained in the Deen and not in the opinions of even the greatest leaders. It is true that many who have styled themselves Muslims ruled by their traditions which are not part of the Revelation, such was the case with the desert Arabs whose chiefs demand obedience and were of the opinion that one should rule by tradition rather than by the Book and the Sunnah. This is kufr. Although many submit to Islam, they continue to be ruled by the ancient practice which their rulers impose upon them. These rulers are told that it is not permitted for them to rule other than by the revelation of Allah and still they refuse, insisting upon a course which is at variance to the revelation of Allah. They are considered disbelievers."
So for everything I say, I will have to back it up by the Quran? Ok.
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Karl
05-18-2016, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
There is a difference between "jews" and "zionists" we cant put them all in the same boat.

Well masjids are needed for the muslims who live here,
Taraweeh, jummah, 5 daily, and lectures, so they have to be built
Cameron is a Zionist Jew that is why he is anti Muslim.
Reply

makkah tribune
05-23-2016, 04:58 AM
As per our honest opinion some muslim group of prople are really damging Islam in UK. These groups include people from Pakistan.
Reply

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