The previous thread had been closed as much of the material was being repeated and people were not reading the thread which tends to happen with a thread of that length and that controversy. For this reason, I had mentioned that if someone felt they had new material to add to the thread, to pm me. What one percieves to be new material isn't always the case and this is something that can be quickly pointed out via pm before it spawns a multipage discussion, which is identical in content to the previous discussion.
I'm going to go through the different questions raised in this thread in a concise fashion leaving out the off-topic comments with regard to polygamy and domestic violence which have already been answered in other threads on the forum.
format_quote Originally Posted by chris4336
In the last thread Ansar challenged those who think sexual relations for a girl of the age of 9 is wrong to provide medical evidence.
If you wish to respond to another member you should quote exactly what they said so that members can see if you have actually provided a potent response to their assertions or if you have misquoted them entirely. As it turns out, you have falsely attributed to me something I never said. In fact, I specifically made the following statments in that thread:"Again, this is probably the most obvious strawmen visible. I am not saying it is okay for any man to marry any nine year old girl, I am specifically speaking about Aisha rd."
"I'm not speaking about anyone, I am speaking about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and Aisha - I clarified this in my last post."
So the issue here is whether the marriage of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to A'ishah was harmful and immoral, NOT whether early marriages in other societies could be classified as such. What is confirmed is that A'ishah was mature and post-pubescent, her marriage to the Prophet was acceptable by cultural norms, she did not bear children which is something God knew before He commanded the Prophet to marry her, and A'ishah did not suffer any harm. Much to the contrary, she lived a very outspoken and public life as a religious scholar and leading figure and she always had the best things to say about the Prophet Muhammad saws.
The purpose in the marriage was mentioned in the thread:As for the purpose of this marriage, it was purely for sociopolitical reason. The Prophet’s main concern was the future of Islam. He was interested in strengthening the Muslims by all bonds. This also explains the reason why he married the daughter of `Umar, his Second Successor. It was by his marriage to Juwayriyyah that he gained the support for Islam of the whole clan of Bani Al-Mustaliq and their allied tribes. It was through his marriage to Safiyyah that he neutralized a great section of the hostile Jews of Arabia. By accepting Mariya, the Copt from Egypt, as his wife, he formed a political alliance with a king of great magnitude. So his marriage to `Aisha could never be of anything save cementing his relation with Abu Bakr, `Aisha’s father. (
SOURCE)
Q: What about the example the Prophet set?
The absurd issue here is how when people speak about the example of the Prophet they focus only on his marriage to A'ishah! What about all his other marriages? Let us look at a basic table:
Name of Bride/----------------/ Age at marriage/-------------/ Comments
Khadija bin Khuwailid /---------------/ 40 /-------------------/twice widowed before
Sawda bint Zam'ah /-------------------/ 50 /-------------------------------/ widow
Aisha bint Abi Bakr /------------------/ 9 /-----------/ Started living with the prophet at the age of 9.
Hafsa bint Umar /---------------------/ 22 /-------------------/ widow
Zaynab bint Khuzaimah /-----------/ 30 /--------------------/
Umm Salamah bint A.U. /-----------/ 26 /--------------------/ widow
Zaynab bint Jahsh /------------------/ 38 /--------------------/ widow
Juwayriyyah bint Harith /------------/ 20 /--------------------/ widow
Umm Habiba bint A.S. /------------/ 36 /--------------------/ widow
Safiyyah bint Huyay /----------------/ 17 /--------------------/ widow
Maymuna bint Harith /-------------/ 36 /--------------------/ widow
The majority of the Prophet's wives were middle-aged widows!
Q: But doesn't the prophet's example mean that all muslims should marry at that age?
Such a question betrays a gross misunderstanding of the most basic principles in Islamic jurisprudence. I noticed a considerable amount of ignorance in this regard, as expressed in statements like:
I think it would be foolish to say that Muslims men in the world are not using this
rule because of their desires
Note the erroneous word highlighted above. The truth of this matter is that just because an action is done by the Prophet pbuh does not make it a part of the religion. If the Prophet ordered others to do it, then it would acquire the status of wâjib, or obligatory. If he did not order us to do it but he recommended it or promised a reward for it, then it would acquire the religious ruling of mustahab or recommended. But other actions like riding a camel or wearing a turban or various cultural practices do not have religious significance. It is only what the prophet commands or recomments. But in this case, we see neither!! In fact, not only is there no recommendation at all in Islam to marry at such an age, but it is forbidden if there is any risk of danger associated with the marriage.
I would quote the following fatwa from Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azîz ibn Ahmad Ad-Durayhim:As for the possible negative consequences of a man of such a mature age marrying such a young girl, it is patently obvious. The discrepancies in their capabilities, both physically and mentally, could bring about serious differences between the two of them that could lead to the failure of the marriage. This is something that has been seen and is well understood.
Therefore, I would not recommend such a marriage nor would I encourage it.
Moreover, with respect to what we have said about the legal validity of such a marriage, that refers to the validity of the contract itself. As for the effects of the marriage - such as privacy, intimacy and sexual relations - that is another matter entirely. Such things are permitted only if the girl is able to handle such a relationship without any harm whatsoever coming to. Otherwise, it is prohibited. This is because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "There shall be no harm nor the causing of harm."
It can also be seen in the very conduct of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He did not consummate his marriage with 'A’ishah for a number of years on account of her young age.
And from the fatwâ committee supervised by Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahhâb At-Turayrî we note: The lawfulness of consummating a marriage at such an age is contingent on the maturity of the girl and that no harm would come to her.
So if any harm would come from it, then it is unlawful i.e. harâm.
Q: So why didn't Islam prohibit such practices that are harmful?
Actually, it did. It would be impossible for Islam to have an explicit prohibition on every dangerous behavior from jumping off a scyscraper to smoking, so Islam has provided a single broad injunction to cover all instances of harm:
The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said,
لا ضرر ولا ضر
"There is to be no harming, nor reciprocating of harm." (Musnad Ahmad, authenticated by Al-Albânî)
Yes, I don't deny that Aisha was a very happy woman, my concern was what is being done to protect very young girls from getting into a situation with an older man where they might not be as happily married, and might actually be harmed, but this was very fully explained to me because of the protection a Wali is expected to offer, and that such a marriage should never take place if it is not in the girl's best interest.
Then the issue is resolved.
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