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undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

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    undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan (OP)


    for those who shade douts on the truth of islam .the proof of the miracles of the Holy book Of QURAAN have been confessed even by the non muslim scientists . the sophisticated description of some of the biologoical and natural process that was described by the Holybook some 14 centuries ago has left the scientist quite fascinated and declare that QURAAN is divine message
    to know about this here is useful like www.islamguide.com

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    Report bad ads?

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun View Post
    What a pointless and fruitless discussion...

    Have you actually got any relevant questions or are you just going to constantly throw out red herrings?

    I think a mod needs to clear up this thread as it has gone way off topic...
    I'm sorry. If we have dragged this thread off topic then I will leave it at that.

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    Matters relating to droplets of fluid within the reproduction sequence. Apologies if off topic, How do the non-beleivers out there deal with the fact that sperm are so incredible, certain armoury against being dissolved by female chemicals, tails that drive the body to the egg then jetison so as not to damage the egg cell, devices to penetrate the egg wall. All this and more, they are assembled in stages and all for a journey that it is impossibls to know of through plain evolution with no God involved. The reason I say this (and its not my idea, I saw it on islam channel) is that as far as I am aware not one single sperm has ever re-entered the male body to discharge information gleaned of the journey. Yet of the billions of sperms ejected, mere hundreds get to the egg and only one enters !!!!!!! How do the sperm who are unintelligent know all this and how can they possibly be so well equiped to deal with the journey ? This is a tiny part of an impossible process, it is not impossible when veiwing the process from a beleivers point of veiw, in fact it is the only logical explanation I can find. Why attribute this to Allah ? Apart from being a believer in Allahs oneness anyway , there is specific mentions of seed emitted from the male in water from the correct body area. I must apologise for my lack of qouting the Qur'an, I hope some brother or sister may be able to provide this, also I am not sure how to create links but once again if anyone would like to further this point, the scientist on Islam channel is a Turkish Hodja, I will find out and post his name.
    I know I am not the only one who would find this a scientific proof of our Creators almighty power, when the links etc have been added I would really like to hear from some of the agnostics and evolutionists on the subject. Sorry for my lack of info to back up point but the point remains regardless, peace
    undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    "O ye who belive! Endure, outdo all others in endurance, be ready, and observe your duty to Allah, in order that you may succeed"

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257 View Post
    I'm sorry. If we have dragged this thread off topic then I will leave it at that.
    I wasn't referring to you

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by TKTony View Post
    Yet of the billions of sperms ejected, mere hundreds get to the egg and only one enters !!!!!!! How do the sperm who are unintelligent know all this and how can they possibly be so well equiped to deal with the journey?
    This is the God of the Gaps argument. Just because you haven't figure out how one unintelligent sperm is able to enter an egg, it doesn't mean God exists.
    Science has answered how only one sperm enters. The membrane of the egg changes once one sperm enters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_activation As far as "armoury against being dissolved by female chemicals, tails that drive the body" and so on, you can look up the evolution of sperm. Surely, if someone designed sperm, only one sperm would be needed to make the journey, instead of billions going and dying off hoping one will reach the egg. Nearly 15% of couples are infertile. If God exists, what a waster.



    The fact is, one sperm doesn't always enter. Sometimes, TWO sperm enters
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molar_pregnancies
    "In contrast, a partial mole occurs when a normal egg is fertilized by two spermatozoa."
    Note that a molar pregnancy can sometimes kill the mom.
    If God is tickling the sperm and guiding them, he's sometimes a pretty bad guide.


    What about females is born with only one X chromosome (Turner syndrome).


    This wouldn't be expect if their was a God designing people or guiding sperm (seriously, do you believe God guides sperm, lol), and completely expected if one accepts blind evolution by natural selection.
    Last edited by Converse02; 05-26-2009 at 05:28 AM.

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Converse02 View Post
    This is the God of the Gaps argument. Just because you haven't figure out how one unintelligent sperm is able to enter an egg, it doesn't mean God exists.
    Science has answered how only one sperm enters. The membrane of the egg changes once one sperm enters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_activation

    The fact is, one sperm doesn't always enter. Sometimes, TWO sperm enters
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molar_pregnancies
    "In contrast, a partial mole occurs when a normal egg is fertilized by two spermatozoa."
    Or a female is born with only one X chromosome (Turner syndrome).

    This is to be expected if there was no conscience God designing people, and completely was is expected if chance was involved.
    I don't enjoy threads of this nature as I find them ridiculous on both sides.. but sometimes one side is even more ridiculous (such as with your case here).. how is having a hydatidiform mole exactly proof of God's nonexistence?

    The fact that they are extremely rare and an aberrancy that aborts before term should actually point the attention as to what goes right all the time that folks take for granted.. It is by defining the baseline for normal that we are able to define abnormal.. & It actually has the opposite effect on most reflecting people!
    undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan


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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    just an excerpt

    7. What does a cell need in order to function?
    To determine the probability that the first cell was assembled
    randomly, we first need to answer the following general question:
    what is required in order to make a functional living cell?
    In other words, what is the bare minimum number of proteins for a
    cell to function at all? If we can answer this, it should help us
    determine what the very first cell might have looked like.
    As a first step in answering this, it is worthwhile to consider
    the simplest known cell that exists in the world today. This is an
    organism called "Mycoplasma genitalium" (MG) whose genetic
    information is many times smaller than the information in the
    human genome: the number of genes required for the functioning of
    MG in its natural state is only 517. (Humans have tens of
    thousands of genes.)
    Recently, researchers have raised the interesting issue: are all
    517 of these genes really necessary for MG to function properly?
    The answer is No. By removing genes one at a time, researchers
    have been able to show that the cell continues to function with
    fewer than the total complement of 517. By eliminating more and
    more of the genes, it has emerged that MG continues to function
    normally as long as there are between 265 and 350 protein-coding
    genes (see Hutchison et al., Science vol. 286, p. 2165, 1999). An
    earlier estimate of the minimum cell size in nature had suggested
    that the minimum number of proteins for cell operation might
    indeed be about 250 (J. Maniloff, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA Vol.
    93, p, 10004, 1996).
    It appears, then, that the simplest cell in the modern world
    requires at least 250 proteins in order to survive in viable form.
    Many of the 250 (or so) essential proteins in MG have identifiable
    14
    functions. Hutchison et al. list 13 categories of identified
    functions in the MG genome: (1) cell envelope, (2) cellular
    processes, (3) central intermediary metabolism, (4) co-factors and
    carriers, (5) DNA metabolism, (6) energy metabolism, (7) fatty
    acid metabolism, (8) nucleotides, (9) protein fate, (10) protein
    synthesis, (11) regulatory functions, (12) transport/binding
    proteins, and (13) transcription. Each of these 13 categories
    contains multiple genes, so that (e.g.) protein synthesis does not
    depend solely on a single protein for its operation: there are
    backups and multiple redundancies in each category. For example,
    some 19 proteins are used for membrane maintenance (category (1)).
    About 150 of the MG proteins can be assigned with some confidence
    to one of the 13 categories.
    However, more than 100 of the MG genes perform functions that are
    currently unidentified. Nevertheless, the cell certainly requires
    them: without them, there is empirical proof that the cell fails
    to function.
    8. The first cells to appear on Earth: reducing the requirements
    to an absolute minimum
    It might be argued that the first cells to appear on Earth were
    smaller than the simplest cells (such as MG) that exist in the
    world today. Those primitive cells might have been able to operate
    with many fewer proteins than the 265 needed by MG.
    Although we will use this argument below, it is actually difficult
    to substantiate. The mathematician John Von Neumann estimated the
    bare necessities which are necessary in order to construct what he
    referred to as “a self-replicating machine” (Theory of Self-
    Reproducing Automata: Univ. of Illinois press, 1966). It has been
    a popular exercise among science fiction writers to use this idea
    in connection with how a civilization might colonize a galaxy by
    sending out machines. Von Neumann concluded that the number of
    parts in one such machine must be in the millions. Other authors
    have reduced this estimate somewhat, but even according to the
    most optimistic estimate, the numbers remain very large: the best
    estimates suggest that there must be between 105 and 106 parts in a
    self-replicating machine. This means that the genome needs at
    least 105 bits in order to metabolize and replicate (Yockey, p.
    334). Using the information content in a typical modern protein,
    Yockey concludes that the original genome must have been able to
    specify at least 267 proteins. The fact that this is close to the
    minimum number required for a modern cell (such as MG) suggests
    that one is not necessarily permitted to assume that the original
    15
    cell contained significantly fewer proteins than the smallest
    modern cell.
    Nevertheless, other authors have argued that the Von Neumann
    approach is overly restrictive. E.g., Niesert (1987, origins of
    Life 17, 155)) estimates that the first cell might have been able
    to operate with as few as 300-400 amino acids.
    Which of these various estimates of minimum requirements for the
    first cell should we consider? There must be some absolute minimum
    requirements for making even the simplest cell. For example, one
    might argue that, among the 12 non-regulatory categories of gene
    functions listed by Hutchison et al., one representative protein
    should be present in the first cell. And each of these 12 proteins
    should have an accompanying protein to serve in a regulatory role.
    This line of reasoning would suggest that 24 proteins are a
    minimum for cell operation.
    Can we reduce this to an even barer minimum? Examples of minimum
    cell requirements have been summarized by the paleontologist
    George Gaylord Simpson. Of the 13 categories listed by Hutchison
    et al, Simpson narrows down the bare minimum to the following: (i)
    energy generation, (ii) storing information; (iii) replicating
    information; (iv) an enclosure to prevent dispersal of the
    interacting sub-structures; (v) digestion of food; (vi) waste
    product ejection (Science vol. 143, p. 771, 1964).
    In view of these bare-bones requirements, it is hard to imagine
    how any cell could function without at least the following six
    types of proteins: (i) those that help to digest food, (ii) those
    that generate energy for cell operations, (iii) those that carry
    away waste products, (iv) those that preserve and repair the cell
    membrane, (v) those that determine when reproduction is to occur,
    and (vi) those which actually catalyze the tasks of reproduction.
    Corresponding to each of these six, there must be a regulatory
    protein which ensures that the corresponding protein does not
    “express itself” in the wrong location in the cell.
    It is hard to imagine how a living cell would exist at all if it
    failed to contain at least these 12 proteins.
    The fact that the simplest cell in the modern world (MG) requires
    265 proteins as a bare minimum in order to function makes our
    estimate of 12 proteins look ridiculously small. But since it is
    possible that the first living cells may have been much simpler
    than those we find in the world today, let us make the (perhaps
    16
    absurdly reductionist) assumption that the first cells in fact
    were able to operate on the basis of the bare minimum 12 proteins.
    As an illustration of how reductionist our assumption is, we note
    that in the first cell, we are assuming that a single protein is
    responsible for ensuring proper functioning of the lipid membrane
    of that cell. In contrast, the smallest known cell in the modern
    world (MG) uses 19 genes to encode for lipoproteins (Hutchison et
    al. Science vol. 286, p. 2166). The use of 19 genes in the modern
    cell is an example of the large amount of redundancy that nature
    uses to ensure that the membrane survives. But the first cell may
    not have had the luxury of redundancy: it may have been forced to
    survive using only one gene for its membrane. It would have been a
    precarious existence.
    We have argued that each protein must contain at least 14 amino
    acids: thus our bare minimum cell, with 12 proteins and 14 amino
    acids in each, contains 168 amino acids. This is even smaller than
    the bare minimum of 300-400 amino acids described by Niesert
    (1987, Origins of Life, 17, 155). The DNA of our minimal (12-14)
    cell would contain only about 500 bases. This is 10 times shorter
    than the genome of a certain virus (PHI-X 174) which transmits 9
    proteins. It is widely believed that a virus cannot be regarded as
    a “living cell” (it has no self-contained replication system), so
    this again indicates the extreme nature of our assumption that the
    first cell could have as few as 12 proteins. But let us proceed in
    the spirit of optimizing the probability that the first cell
    appeared by chance.
    8.1. The first cell: putting the proteins together by chance
    In the early Earth, the commonest concept of conditions back then
    is that the primeval "soup" consisted of various chemicals that
    were stirred up and forced into contact with one another as a
    result of the forces of nature (including rain, ocean currents,
    lightning). Simple chemical reactions in the soup were easily able
    to create amino acids: these molecules are so small (containing no
    more than 10-30 atoms each) that random processes can put them
    together quickly from the abundant C, O, N, and H atoms in the
    soup. As a result, we expect to find in the primeval soup, in
    abundant supply, all of the 22 amino acids that occur in modern
    life forms. (For the number 22, see Nature vol. 417, 478, 2002).
    In fact, there are more than 100 amino acids in modern nature, but
    only 22 are used in proteins. And of those 22, numbers 21 and 22
    are rare. Most living material relies on only 20 of these amino
    acids, and we will use that number here.
    17
    To be sure, the “primeval soup” hypothesis is not without its
    opponents (e.g. Yockey, pp. 235-241). Laboratory experiments which
    claim to replicate conditions in the primeval Earth generate not
    only amino acids but also a tarry substance (as the principal
    product). This substance should have survived as a non-biological
    kerogen in ancient sedimentary rocks, but no evidence for this has
    been found. It should not be surprising that, in the primeval
    soup, other amino acids, not currently used in life forms, could
    have been formed. (This would include the acids that are used in
    nylon.) And each of the amino acids which are created randomly in
    the primeval soup would be created in two forms: the D-variety and
    the L-variety. (These varieties refer to the ability of the
    molecule to rotate the polarization of light either right or left:
    this ability depends on the chirality of the molecule, i.e. on the
    handedness of its 3-dimensional structure.) For reasons that are
    not yet obvious, only one of these varieties (the L-variety) is
    actually used in present-day life forms. However, the basic
    property of amino acids, that they polymerize, operates only
    between L alone or D alone: when an L and a D amino acid combine,
    their opposite chirality has the effect of locking out any
    possibility of further polymerization.
    Another difficulty of a very different nature has to do with
    reactions in an aqueous solution. The very process of assembling
    amino acids into a polypeptide chain (so as to make a protein)
    requires the removal of H from the amino radical and the removal
    of OH from the acid radical: it is not obvious how these
    constituents of a water molecule can be removed in an aqueous
    solution.
    Despite these difficulties with the primeval soup hypothesis, the
    idea of the soup is so widespread in textbooks that it is a
    natural starting point for an optimized estimate of probabilities.
    In the spirit of the present approach (where we do whatever we can
    to optimize the chances of assembling the first cell randomly), we
    will simply go along with the textbooks. We shall assume that the
    formation of the first cell in the early Earth began in liquid
    water where only 20 L-amino acids need to be taken into account.
    Other simple chemical reactions in the soup also give rise more or
    less quickly to the four bases (two purines and two pyrimidines)
    that form the "rungs" of DNA. Why are these formed relatively
    readily? Because each base consists on no more than 13-16 atoms,
    random processes can also assemble these bases rapidly from the
    abundant C, O, N, and H atoms. It was probably more difficult to
    form pyrimidines than purines, but the principle is robust:
    18
    formation of small molecules is essentially inevitable in the
    early Earth.
    In order for the first cell to come into existence, at least 12
    proteins, each with Na amino acids in a specific order, had to
    emerge in the same patch of the "primeval soup". To be sure,
    individual proteins were probably emerging at random at many
    places around the world. But if our aim is to form a complete
    living cell, it will not help if the membrane protein emerged (at
    random) in China, the energy protein in Russia, and the
    replication protein in South America. That will not do: the only
    way to have the first cell develop is if all 12 proteins emerge in
    close enough proximity to one another to be contained within a
    single membrane.
    How might this have happened in random processes? By way of
    example, let us consider one particular protein, in which the
    chain of amino acids happens to be denoted by the series of
    letters ABCDEFGHIJKLMN. In order that this protein be made by
    chance, amino acid E (say) (one of the 20 commonest in nature)
    might have started off by entering into a chemical reaction with
    amino acid F (another of the 20), such that the two found it
    possible to become connected by a peptide bond. Then amino acid D
    might have had a chemical reaction so as to join onto the EF pair
    at the left end, forming DEF by means of a new peptide bond. Note
    that it is important to form DEF rather than EFD, which would be a
    very different protein. This process presumably continued until
    the entire 14-unit protein chain ABCDEFGHIJKLMN was complete.
    8.2. The first cell: putting the DNA/RNA together by chance
    It is not enough to assemble 12 proteins to have a functional
    living cell: the cell must be able to reproduce, and for that
    the cell needs DNA (or at least RNA). In order to ensure
    reproduction of the cell, there had to be (also in the same patch
    of the primeval soup) at least 12 genes on an RNA strand, each
    containing 3Na+6 bases in a specific order.
    Thus, in the very same patch of "soup" where the protein
    ABCDEFGHIJ formed by chance, a strand of RNA must have been formed
    where the three bases that encode for amino acid A were joined in
    a specific order along the RNA strip by a series of chemical
    reactions. Then the three bases that encode for amino acid B had
    to be added in a specific order to the sidepieces, right next to
    the three bases that encode for A. This process must have
    continued until the triplets of bases that encode for each of C,
    D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, and N respectively were assembled in
    19
    a specific order into a chain of 30 bases. There would also be one
    triplet at each end of the 30-base sequence to serve as markers
    for start and stop. This 36-base sequence would then form the gene
    for the first protein in the first cell.
    Now that we know how the first proteins and RNA/DNA were put
    together, we are in a position to estimate the probability that
    this will occur by random processes.
    9. Probability of protein formation at random
    In the example given above, we recall that amino acid (say) E is
    only one of 20 amino acids that exist in living matter. Amino acid
    F is also one of 20. Therefore, a process that successfully forms
    the sequence EF at random out of a soup where all amino acids are
    present in equal abundances, has a probability p2 which is roughly
    equal to (1/20) times (1/20) = 1/400.
    Actually, however, pre-living matter contains not only the Lvariety
    of each amino acid, but also the D-variety. Therefore, a
    better estimate of the probability p2 that the correct pair of Lamino
    acids be formed is (1/40) times (1/40), i.e. p2 = 1/1600.
    However, once an L-acid unites with a D-acid, the opposite nature
    of their chiralities leads to a “lock-out”: no further
    polymerization is possible. So we will optimize probability by
    assuming that only the L-variety is present. We therefore take p2 =
    1/400.
    Another way to state this result is that if we wish to create the
    combination EF (both L-variety) by chance, the number of chemical
    reactions that must first occur between amino acids in the
    primeval soup is about 1/p2, or about 400. That is, if we allow so
    much time to elapse that 400 reactions can occur in the primeval
    soup, then there is a high probability (close to a certainty) that
    the combination EF will appear simply at random.
    This argument assumes that the only amino acids in the primeval
    soup are the 20 which occur in modern living organism. However,
    there were certainly other non-biological amino acids available.
    As a result, many more than 400 reactions was almost certainly
    required before the combination EF appeared at random. However, we
    will optimize the chances for random assembly of the first cell by
    ignoring the non-biological amino acids.
    After creating EF by random processes, the next step is to have
    the next amino acid to join the chain be the L-variety of (say) G,
    i.e. only 1 out of the 20 types available. Then the probability
    20
    that the three amino acids EFG will be assembled in the correct
    order is about (1/20)3.
    Continuing this all the way through a sequence of Na amino acids
    in a protein, the chance f1 of correctly picking (at random) all
    the necessary amino acids to create one particular protein is
    roughly equal to (1/20) raised to the power Na. This corresponds to
    f1 = (1/10)x where x = 1.3Na. Actually, to the extent that some
    amino acids may be replaced by others without affecting the
    functionality of the protein, the above expression for f1 is a
    lower limit. (We will allow for this later in this section.)
    Yockey (p. 73) shows that instead of 20N for the value of 1/f1, a
    more accurate estimate is 2NH where H is the mean value of a
    quantity known as the Shannon entropy of the 20-acid set (see
    below). In the limit where all amino acids have equal probability
    of being encoded, and are equally probable at all sites in the
    protein, 2NH turns out (from the definition of H) to be equal to
    20N . In all other cases, 2NH is less than 20N. This returns us to
    the previous conclusion: the above expression for f1 is a lower
    limit on the true value.
    Suppose that the particular protein with probability f1 has been
    formed in a particular patch of the primeval soup. Then in order
    to form a single cell (with at least 12 proteins as a bare minimum
    to function), eleven more proteins must also be formed in the same
    patch of soup, in close enough proximity to one another to be
    contained within a single membrane. Each of these proteins also
    has a certain number of amino acids: for simplicity let us assume
    that all have length Na.
    The overall probability f12 that all twelve proteins arise as a
    result of random processes is the product of the probability for
    the twelve separate proteins. That is, f12 is roughly equal to f1
    12,
    i.e. f12 is roughly (1/10)y where y = 15.6Na.
    We can now quantify the claim that the first cell was assembled by
    random processes. If the first cell consisted of only the bare
    minimum 12 proteins, and if each of these proteins was uniquely
    suited to its own task, the probability that these particular 12
    proteins will be formed by random processes in a given patch of
    primeval soup is f12.
    Now let us turn to the fact that a protein may remain functional
    even if a certain amino acid is replaced with another one.
    (Obviously, we are not referring to invariant sites here.) For
    example, it may be that the protein which we have specified as the
    one that is responsible for (say) energy generation in the cell is
    21
    not unique. There may exist other groupings of amino acids which
    also have the shape and properties that enable the task of energy
    production for the cell. Maybe the others are not as efficient as
    the first one, but let us suppose that they have enough efficiency
    to be considered as possible candidates for energy production in
    the first cell. Then we need to ask: how many energy-producing
    proteins might there be in the primeval soup?
    It is difficult to tell: in principle, if Na has the value 14
    (say), then one could examine the molecular structure of all 14-
    amino acid proteins (of which there are some 2014 , i.e. 1018.2 if
    all amino acids are equally probable) and identify which ones
    would be suitable for performing the energy task. Presumably there
    must be some specificity to the task of energy production:
    otherwise, a protein which is supposed to perform the task of
    (say) waste removal might suddenly start to perform the task of
    (say) membrane production in the wrong part of the cell.
    Therefore, it is essential for stable life-forms that not all
    available proteins can perform all of the individual tasks.
    Suppose the number of alternate energy-producers Q is written as
    10q. In a world where all proteins have Na = 14, the absolute
    maximum value that q can have is qmax = 18.2. This is the total
    number of discrete locations in the “14-amino acid phase space”.
    In the real world, a more realistic estimate of qmax would be
    smaller than the above estimate. First, not all amino acids have
    equal probability of being encoded: there are more codons in the
    modern genetic code for some amino acids than for others. (E.g.,
    Leu, Val, and Ser have 6 codons each, whereas 10 others have only
    2 codons each.) When these are allowed for in the probability
    distribution, it is found that the “effective number” of amino
    acids in the modern world is not 20 but 17.621 (Yockey, p. 258).
    Thus, with Na = 14, a more accurate estimate of qmax(eff) is 17.4
    (rather than 18.2).
    As a result, in the real world, qmax(eff) may be considerably
    smaller than 18.2. However, in the spirit of optimizing
    probabilities, let us continue to use the value 18.2.
    The requirement that some specificity of task persists among
    proteins requires that the value of q must certainly not exceed
    qmax. At the other extreme, in a situation where each protein is
    uniquely specified, q would have the value qmin = 0 (so that one
    and only one protein could perform the task of energy production).
    22
    Now we can see that our estimate of f12 needs to be altered. We
    were too pessimistic in estimating f12 above. Each factor f1 needs
    to be multiplied by 10q. For simplicity, let us assume that q has
    the same value for each of the 12 proteins in the cell. Then the
    revised value of f12 is 1/10z where
    z = 15.6Na - 12q . (eq. 1)
    This result applies to a cell with 12 proteins, each composed of
    amino acids chosen from a set of 20 distinct entries.
    10. Random formation of DNA/RNA

    The first cell could NOT have functioned if it consisted only of
    proteins. In order to merit the description living, the cell must
    also have had the ability to reproduce. That is, it must also have
    had the correct DNA to allow all 12 proteins to be reproduced by
    the cell.
    In order to estimate the probability of assembling a piece of DNA
    by random processes, we can follow the same argument as for
    proteins, except that now we must pick from the available set of 4
    bases.
    Repeating the arguments given above, we see that for each protein
    which contains Na amino acids in a certain sequence (plus one start
    and one stop), there must exist in the DNA a strip of B = 3Na+6
    bases in a corresponding sequence. If we pick bases at random from
    a set of 4 possibilities, the probability of selecting the correct
    sequence for a particular protein is (1/4)B. Therefore, the
    probability of selecting the correct sequences for all twelve
    proteins, if each protein is unique, is (1/4)D where D = 36Na + 72.
    Writing this with the symbol fRNA, we see that fRNA is equal to
    (1/10)E where
    E = 21.7Na + 43.3. (eq. 2)
    Again, however, if instead of unique proteins for each task, there
    are 10q proteins available to perform each task in the cell, then
    we must increase the above value of fRNA to 10-G where
    G = 21.7Na + 43.3 - 12q.
    for full article http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_P...ell_112302.pdf

    and here folks you are asked to forgo the battalions of functions that go into making or a primitive cell to making it a functional cell, as it so happens it isn't a matter of throwing some randoms proteins together and as if by magic they animate, take shape and function, carrying that thought equally to every specie (giving you a pair of each for proper perpetuation of that specie) none which stopped at primeval goo, no kept on naturally over centuries, as well a perfect environment to house it all, fruits, nuts, trees, minerals, oxygen all perfectly simpatico at the same time, but what warrants your attention here, isn't all of this, no, it is that there are rare enzyme disorders or aborted hydatidiform moles

    what genius indeed draws satisfaction out of overly simplistic conclusions save for the atheist mind?
    God is indeed in the details, would any of you like to take a stab at the details?

    anyone without kitschy talk and fallacies?
    undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

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  11. #128
    Converse02's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post
    how is having a hydatidiform mole exactly proof of God's nonexistence?
    You can't disprove God or invisible magical elves. I'm just showing that, for an allegely perfect being, he's a poor designer.


    The fact that they are extremely rare and an aberrancy that aborts before term
    Not all of them abort. Some turn into cancer and kill the mom. Some God, some design. Naturalistic evolution explains it better.


    Also, take in vitro fertilization. Do you believe we can now make God ensoul embryos, and have turn God into our puppet? Of course out, naturalistic evolution again explains this whereas God-belief cannot.

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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by K.Venugopal View Post
    From Wikipedia:
    Criticism has been made both of Bucaille's book in particular and Bucailleism in general. Theoretical physicist Parvez Hoodbhoy of Pakistan identifies the problem with such claims to ownership is that they lack an explanation for why quantum mechanics, molecular genetics, etc., had to await discovery elsewhere. Nor is any kind of testable prediction ever made. No reason is offered as to why antibiotics, aspirin, steam engines, electricity, aircraft, or computers were not first invented by Muslims. But even to ask such questions is considered offensive.
    what nonsense Vishnu? as far as I am concerned antibiotics and the rest didn't come courtesy of a Hindu either or are you too good to be true? aside from that a little google to your same favorite site, might in fact show you what Muslims contributed to the field of physics alone..


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_physics



    you are only offensive because you choose to be, not because you have anything of substance to impart on the matter!

    all the best
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    Re: undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Converse02 View Post
    You can't disprove God. I'm just showing that, for an allegely perfect being, he's a poor designer.
    what is your idea of 'perfection' where is your baseline?


    Not all of them abort. Some turn into cancer and kill the mom. Some God you worship, some design. A more likely explanation, that makes more sense, is to accept naturalistic evolution
    a very negligible percentage turns to cancer, and can actually be remedied early by following serum HCG and vigilant action .. the one who created us also gave us the science to deal with whatever tribulations come our way.. this isn't heaven!

    Also, take in vitro fertilization. Do you believe we can now make God ensoul embryos, and have turn God into our puppet? Of course out, naturalistic evolution again explains this whereas God-belief cannot.
    How so, do tell, as that is indeed news to me!
    How is taking cells already in existence playing God?

    all the best
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    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - undisputed miracles of the Holy Quraan



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