Christian women are required to cover our heads!!

format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي

Regarding turban, there are several variations of wearing turban in Islam. The cap can be left exposed at the top, so that the fabric is encircled around it. Muslim turbans usually have one or two tails, as was the custom of our Prophet peace be upon him. Thus it is very easy to tell who is a sikh and who is a muslim from examining the different style of their turbans.

That wasn't immediately obvious from your previous post.
Thank you for clarifying.

format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي

Therefore back to the original subject, how christian women should cover their head, they should have some unique style so that no one will mistake them for muslims.

You've kind of missed your own point.

Muslims are not supposed to imitate non-Muslims. What you're describing is non-Muslims imitating Muslims.

But anyway, nuns' headscarves look different to traditional (whatever that means) Muslim headscarves. Some Christian women wear hats to cover their hair.

Some Jewish women wear wigs to cover their hair.

...Which looks like it defeats the point, but there you go.

format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي

Problem is that if Christian starts covering their head in a way similar to Muslims people will mistake their identity, and this will not only be detrimental to Muslims it will also be detrimental to Christians, as their religious identity is being taken away from them. dress is very important part of identity. This is the reason why we Muslim men trim down or shave our mustaches, so as not to be mistaken as Jews, as Jewish men grow large mustaches and usually dont cut their mustaches, so our beloved Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salam said to keep a distinct style different from jews and pagans. Also, it is sunnah to wear turban that is wrapped around a cap, which is opposite to pagans especially sikhs who wrap their turbans around their head without a cap underneath it. Another example is that it is haram in Islam to shave part of your head and keep some hair (i.e. mohawk) because this was a pagan custom (and still is). I can give so many more examples but I think the point is clear.

Therefore back to the original subject, how christian women should cover their head, they should have some unique style so that no one will mistake them for muslims.

I agree with you for the most part. But, the responsibility on us is to avoid imitating non-Muslims. I fail to see the connection if non-Muslims choose to copy us. That has happened many times another example is the Rosary Beads used by Catholics, they were copied from our Dhiker Beads. We are not copying them, they are copying us.

Also the hijab has been common wear among Christians up until a few hundred years ago. It is not a new innovation and should not cause confusion. Here are examples of the typical clothing worn by my ancestors in Lithuania and is still worn by many Lithuanians.







In the neighboring country of Latvia the woman's clothing looks even more Islamic. This is the national clothing of Latvian women.





The hijab was worn by both Christian and Jewish women during the time of the Prophet(PBUH) and it was not seen as imitating the Kafir for Muslim women to wear it. It is in obedience to Allaah(swt), not for the intent of imitating either. The hijab seems to be traditional for the 4 Abrahamic Faiths Judaism, Christianity, Sabian and Muslim. I do not think it should be thought of as any imitating the other, but as an overall desire to obey Allaah(swt) even if some do not fully obey.

If Christian women wearing the Hijab are mistaken for Musilimahs, perhaps that is a step on the right path and the beginning of them accepting Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

I see the discussion is veering towards outward appearance and not what is in the heart!

1) False dichotomy. What is in the heart often influences outward appearance.

2) The point of this thread is what is in the heart influencing outward appearance.

LOL!! "Some Jewish women wear wigs to cover their hair ...Which looks like it defeats the point, but there you go". Yes, is this women really submissive in her heart or is she more concerned about looking good?

I don't know where you're getting the word 'submissive' from. Submissive to the Creator (I won't write the G word in case I offend the sensibilities of any Jewish readers)?

But wearing a wig because your religion requires you to cover your hair does defeat the point in my opinion.

The whole issue is about being submissive, is there submission in the heart or is it simply an act of trying to look submissve?

No, the whole issue is not about 'being submissive'. It's about the fact that the orthodox versions of all Abrahamic faiths require their womenfolk to cover their hair. Again, where does submission come into it? Other than submission to the edicts of the Creator?

Is the Muslims woman more submissive then the Christian woman? Can you tell by the way they wear their scarves?

Again, other than submission to the will of the Creator, where does submission come into the equation?

Christians believe in community also- Communion of Saints=spiritual union of all Christians.

How is that relevant to this subject?

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

The whole point of a Christian woman covering her head is submission.

my guess is less than 1% of Christian women do? What does that say about 'Christian women at large'?

1 Corinthians 11
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God

My understanding for the Muslim woman that it is for modesty reasons.

You have no understanding of Islam and it doesn't matter how many folks reply to you, I don't believe you even commit to the act of 'comparative religion' given your repetition of the same nonsense even if the topic had been covered in the post on top of yours? Islam = to submit to the will of God by definition, so how did your chosen definition reign supreme

It used to be very common for Christian women to wear hats to church until around the 1960’s in all churches then around the late 1970’s I think Catholics stopped too. Maybe because it did become too much of a fashion statement?!?

Indeed, I am sure shedding more clothes is better in concert with less fashion and more conformity with God's commands?

It was mentioned:

“The only thing is they should adapt a distinct style, so that they don’t appear to be muslims.”

“And Problem is that if Christian starts covering their head in a way similar to Muslims people will mistake their identity, and this will not only be detrimental to Muslims it will also be detrimental to Christians, as their religious identity is being taken away from them. dress is very important part of identity.”

I believe this statement makes it all about outward appearance.

That is the statement of one individual and doesn't reflect the whole.. although I do indeed find it surprising that a western christian woman would cover up, given 90% of sex on TV alone is pre or extramarital, I don't see a point in covering the hair in 'submission' when more important parts are exposed and on an international level.. I wonder how that translates to the whole inward outward thing? or what it even means for Christianity as a religion? you know if we are going to speak of books that will withstand the test of time (as per your other thread), part of that would be commands that are relevant today as they were millenniums ago? is the bible relevant today as it was then if ever? or to just a nano percent of the population?

“How is that relevant to this subject?”

Christians believe in community also- Communion of Saints=spiritual union of all Christians.

Someone mentioned:

“Of course our main purpose should be to worship and glorify God the almighty. Nevertheless, God doesnt just want us to worship Him as individuals, but also as a community, and each community has their own customs and traditions which make them unique from others.”

I was simply pointing out a common believe amongst Christians.

It still doesn't make any sense in relation to the topics.. also the whole point of religion is to bypass stupid traditions for religious edicts.. and if your bible states cover your head, then it seems like a divine injunction rather than a choice?


all the best

what does this have to do with anything?

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

Fashion statements:

http://www.blackvoices.com/blogs/200...out-in-style/4

Those a truly wacky hats!!
I have never seen anything like this in my church.

format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

Christian women covering their heads for prayer.

I saw five lovely black ladies, do they represent all of Christianity? And is this the proper head cover Jesus asked for?
got to tell you just walking home by the boardwalk today and even though it isn't quite that warm yet, there were many of them happy to shed their clothes and soak the sun in their panties.. So the point if there was one, is lost to me!

all the best

this should cover your queries:

Women in Islam - Part 15- The Veil ?

Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition
The Myth and The Reality
By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.- Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

PART 15 - THE VEIL ?

Finally, let us shed some light on what is considered in the West as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let us set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. 76 He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". 77 Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. 78 The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. 79 Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. 80 Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig. 81
What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:
"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).
St. Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that requires women to cover their heads in church. 82 Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God", which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament. 83
From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (Quran 24:30,31).
The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).
This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the purpose of protecting women, all women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better to be safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished:
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors" (Quran 24:4)
Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible:
" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deut. 22:28-30)
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude?
Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like Queen's has a 'walk home service' mainly for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States! I could not believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University:

• In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes,
• 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives,
• 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime,
• 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and
• A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught.

Something is fundamentally wrong in the society we live in. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer but as K. Gibran has said, "...for the person who receives the blows is not like the one who counts them." 84 Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.
It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of 'holiness' when worn for the purpose of showing the authority of man by Catholic Nuns, is reviled as a sign of 'oppression' when worn for the purpose of protection by Muslim women.

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