I'm trying to understand Islam.trying to understand how so many humans in the year 2007 can support,follow or believe that there is an all powerful being.One that praises the killing or slaughter of other humans,innocent people who are taken from this earth in the name of their god.women and children. I just watched a video of a teen aged girl stoned to death,her crime,falling in love with a boy of another religion. OH!!!! praise allah!!!!!!Thank allah for giving us the strength to throw rocks at her head until she is dead.Did this act cause any change for islam? Is any muslims life any better now that she's not here?what I witnessed was barbaric and served no religious purpose.NONE!!! Someone please explain how caveman type responses helps or srengthens your belief in allah? because it appears to me that this like all religion is nothing more than brainwashing,started at the earliest possible age,your entire life is one big lie!perpatrated by centuries of lies.It is nothing more than mob mentality,be a part of it or we will kill you and maybe your entire family.I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
I'm trying to understand Islam.trying to understand how so many humans in the year 2007 can support,follow or believe that there is an all powerful being.One that praises the killing or slaughter of other humans,innocent people who are taken from this earth in the name of their god.women and children. I just watched a video of a teen aged girl stoned to death,her crime,falling in love with a boy of another religion. OH!!!! praise allah!!!!!!Thank allah for giving us the strength to throw rocks at her head until she is dead.Did this act cause any change for islam? Is any muslims life any better now that she's not here?what I witnessed was barbaric and served no religious purpose.NONE!!! Someone please explain how caveman type responses helps or srengthens your belief in allah? because it appears to me that this like all religion is nothing more than brainwashing,started at the earliest possible age,your entire life is one big lie!perpatrated by centuries of lies.It is nothing more than mob mentality,be a part of it or we will kill you and maybe your entire family.I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
You have just posted many of the misconceptions about us.
Perhaps if you look at some of the threads you will understand that none of that story reflects the teaching of Islam.
Before I continue, this sentence was very nice and polite, why didn't this theme continue through the rest of your post?
trying to understand how so many humans in the year 2007 can support,follow or believe that there is an all powerful being.
Does that fact that we can now make computers and fly planes and go to moon we are self sufficient? What difference does it make if we lived in 1000 BC or 3300 CE? If anything, our new appreciation for life and the world formed based on our understanding of science should only increase our awe at the Power and Might of the Creator- not cause us to be arrogant because we discovered how to replicate DNA.
One that praises the killing or slaughter of other humans,innocent people who are taken from this earth in the name of their god.women and children.
Misconception number 1- since when did Islam allow Muslim to kill innocent people? Are we talking about the same religion? Killing innocents is a MAJOR SIN in Islam. Did you know that the punishment for murder in Islam is death?
I just watched a video of a teen aged girl stoned to death,her crime,falling in love with a boy of another religion.
hmm... okay there is a number of problems here. Firstly, there is no prescribed punishment for falling in love. The punishment if for fornicating (sexual relationships out side of marriage). And the punishment for that is a few lashes, only if the act was witnessed by four people of righteous character... which, in other words, is almost impossible.
Stoning to death is the punishment of the adulterer, i.e. a married man or woman who has sexual intercourse with another man/woman. Again, this act must have been witnessed by four people of righteous character before any one can be sentenced to death... and I mean the whole act, not just witnessing kissing or something.
Umm, so basically is is almost impossible to sentence someone to death for committing adultery.
OH!!!! praise allah!!!!!!Thank allah for giving us the strength to throw rocks at her head until she is dead.
No need for sarcasm. This doesn't sound like the attitude of someone who here is here to learn. Please at least give us the benefit of the doubt!
Did this act cause any change for islam? Is any muslims life any better now that she's not here?what I witnessed was barbaric and served no religious purpose.NONE!!! Someone please explain how caveman type responses helps or srengthens your belief in allah? because it appears to me that this like all religion is nothing more than brainwashing,started at the earliest possible age,your entire life is one big lie!perpatrated by centuries of lies.It is nothing more than mob mentality,be a part of it or we will kill you and maybe your entire family.I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
Of course you don't get it. You brain is too busy thinking up different ways to insult us and through lies left, right and centre, you don't seem to have enough room left to rational thinking.
indeed short of admitting to sin.. very difficult to verify that someone committed adultery-- and certainly punishment of pre-marital is very different from extramarital...
BTW in the united states: Treason is punishable by death!
Which is worst I wonder? treason against one's country or treason against one's religion?
It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Haseeb said: A woman from Ghaamid, a branch of al-Azd, came and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, purify me!” He said, “Woe to you! Go back and seek the forgiveness of Allaah and repent to Him.” She said: “I think that you intend to send me back as you sent Maa’iz ibn Maalik back.” He said, “What has happened to you?” She said that she had become pregnant as a result of zina. He said: “Is it you (who has done that)?” She said: “Yes.” He said to her: “(You will not be punished) until you give birth to that which is in your womb.” A man from among the Ansaar sponsored her [i.e., paid for her needs etc] until she delivered (the child). Then he (that Ansaari) came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “The Ghaamidi woman has given birth to a child.” He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: “Then we will not stone her and so leave her child with no one to nurse him.” One of the Ansaar stood up and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, let me be responsible for ensuring that he is nursed.” Then she was stoned.
Narrated by Muslim, 1695.
peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I don't know where the hadith is but a man went to the Prophet saws and said to him that his wife was doing zina (having sexual relationship outside marriage), and the Prophet saws, asked him 'do you have 4 witness, the man said no , but i just saw her with my eyes, then the Prophet saws said "you either produce proof that 4 man have seen what you saw, or make your back ready for slashesh"), so basiclly even if you see the person doing outside marriage sex, you have to produce 4 witness, or shush, otherwise you get slashed. so it's not like "oh i think he/she was doing zina", or assuming or anything, but you have to bring proof, and when it is cheked about the witneses and all the following stuff, and when they become 100% sure, then they can punish the person, but not just like that, Islam doesn't play with people. Please read , read , read.
i found them, here are 2 hadiths, in Sahih Bukhari
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 271:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Hilal bin Umaiya accused his wife of committing illegal sexual intercourse with Sharik bin Sahma' and filed the case before the Prophet. The Prophet said (to Hilal), "Either you bring forth a proof (four witnesses) or you will receive the legal punishment (lashes) on your back." Hilal said, "O Allah's Apostle! If anyone of us saw a man over his wife, would he go to seek after witnesses?" The Prophet kept on saying, "Either you bring forth the witnesses or you will receive the legal punishment (lashes) on your back." Hilal then said, "By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I am telling the truth and Allah will reveal to you what will save my back from legal punishment." Then Gabriel came down and revealed to him:--
'As for those who accuse their wives...' (24.6-9) The Prophet recited it till he reached: '... (her accuser) is telling the truth.' Then the Prophet left and sent for the woman, and Hilal went (and brought) her and then took the oaths (confirming the claim). The Prophet was saying, "Allah knows that one of you is a liar, so will any of you repent?" Then the woman got up and took the oaths and when she was going to take the fifth one, the people stopped her and said, "It (the fifth oath) will definitely bring Allah's curse on you (if you are guilty)." So she hesitated and recoiled (from taking the oath) so much that we thought that she would withdraw her denial. But then she said, "I will not dishonor my family all through these days," and carried on (the process of taking oaths). The Prophet then said, "Watch her; if she delivers a black-eyed child with big hips and fat shins then it is Sharik bin Sahma's child." Later she delivered a child of that description. So the Prophet said, "If the case was not settled by Allah's Law, I would punish her severely."
Volume 3, Book 48, Number 837:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Hilal bin Umaiya accused his wife before the Prophet of committing illegal sexual intercourse with Sharik bin Sahma.' The Prophet said, "Produce a proof, or else you would get the legal punishment (by being lashed) on your back." Hilal said, "O Allah's Apostle! If anyone of us saw another man over his wife, would he go to search for a proof." The Prophet went on saying, "Produce a proof or else you would get the legal punishment (by being lashed) on your back." The Prophet then mentioned the narration of Lian (as in the Holy Book). (Surat-al-Nur: 24)
Thank you for sharing akhi.. I am sadly not as handy as everyone else with the ahadiths =(
but believe the one I posted also hinted that he gave the lady a chance to repent.. and she CONFESSED /WANTED/to be "purified" of sin.. then he gave her a chance to nurse but someone else said he'd take care of her young one....
Not as barbaric as we are being depicted... but I get the feeling no one cares to read this when they want to only view you under a certain light...
:W:
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I'm trying to understand Islam.trying to understand how so many humans in the year 2007 can support,follow or believe that there is an all powerful being.One that praises the killing or slaughter of other humans,innocent people who are taken from this earth in the name of their god.women and children. I just watched a video of a teen aged girl stoned to death,her crime,falling in love with a boy of another religion. OH!!!! praise allah!!!!!!Thank allah for giving us the strength to throw rocks at her head until she is dead.Did this act cause any change for islam? Is any muslims life any better now that she's not here?what I witnessed was barbaric and served no religious purpose.NONE!!! Someone please explain how caveman type responses helps or srengthens your belief in allah? because it appears to me that this like all religion is nothing more than brainwashing,started at the earliest possible age,your entire life is one big lie!perpatrated by centuries of lies.It is nothing more than mob mentality,be a part of it or we will kill you and maybe your entire family.I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!
I do not know for certain which Youtube movie you saw, but if it is the one I saw that was an out right murder and had nothing to do with religion although the killers who comitted the murder and video taped it, tried to give the impression that it was in accordance with Islam. that was not the girls family stoning the girl nor even any accusers, the girl was kidnapped and savagly murdered.
The Joy of Youtube. If you believe all that you see on YouTube, may I interest you in a lifetime subscription to the "National Enquirer" ?
There was a counter reaction against the other group which resulted in nearly 20 deaths.
That whole issue has to do with a tribal war and has nothing to do with Islam.
I think this is a normal reaction, darn I'd feel the same to some extent.
For example, when the story of my uncle being executed was told to me, with details it made me sick, similar of when I was told of the plight of some family friends, country side men and their children because the soldiers thought that they were 'islamic jihadis' when in fact they were christians.
I was just as angry.
But if we are to try and understand the religion then we should turn back to the sources and derive whether what we see is part of the religion and what mistakes have been carried out by those we have observed executing such acts.
For example, we can look at the laws that Islam places in establishing the punishment for adultery, or in this case the punishment for commiting fornication or for leaving the religion.
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
But if we are to try and understand the religion then we should turn back to the sources and derive whether what we see is part of the religion and what mistakes have been carried out by those we have observed executing such acts.
Exactly. You have to understand what the religion actually teaches. But how do you account for all the "Islam" based terrorist organizations? I'm sure that what they do is wrong and against Islam, but why do they do it? Is there something in Islam that can be easily misunderstood? Or is religion simply the best way to mobilize young men with no hope? At any rate, Islamic terrorist groups must be defeated in order to assure the survival of true Islam. They must be defeated with ideas, and I haven't heard the voices of non-violent Muslims nearly as loudly as the advocates of violence. Why is this?
do you guys know what is the most annoying thing in this world in terms of knowledge??
when they bring some non-muslim on TV that doesn't have a clue what he';s talking and they say "ok, here we have X Person tonight, he is an expert in shariah..."
and sometimes you have even muslims who get on tv or any media, and start talking and they know nothing. lollll
Exactly. You have to understand what the religion actually teaches. But how do you account for all the "Islam" based terrorist organizations? I'm sure that what they do is wrong and against Islam, but why do they do it? Is there something in Islam that can be easily misunderstood? Or is religion simply the best way to mobilize young men with no hope? At any rate, Islamic terrorist groups must be defeated in order to assure the survival of true Islam. They must be defeated with ideas, and I haven't heard the voices of non-violent Muslims nearly as loudly as the advocates of violence. Why is this?
It is an odd phenomena, at least 80% of the World's Muslims do speak out against terrorism. But, outside of the Mosques the world never hears of it. but, let one Misguided person in an isolated Mosque in a far off land speak in favor of terrorism and it is on the 6 O'clock news world wide.
There have been many threads on that subject posted here there have been many world wide demonstrations against terrorism.
All of us will agree that we need to do more and we do constantly see what we can do as individuals. Every Mosque I attend is very much opposed to terrorism and Every Imam I know speaks against it. I believe any Muslim that can read this will agree this is true were they are also.
Exactly. You have to understand what the religion actually teaches. But how do you account for all the "Islam" based terrorist organizations? I'm sure that what they do is wrong and against Islam, but why do they do it? Is there something in Islam that can be easily misunderstood? Or is religion simply the best way to mobilize young men with no hope? At any rate, Islamic terrorist groups must be defeated in order to assure the survival of true Islam. They must be defeated with ideas, and I haven't heard the voices of non-violent Muslims nearly as loudly as the advocates of violence. Why is this?
Non-Violent Muslims have voiced out loudly but the media seems to hear and focus only the violent incidents and continously plays those back to the public. Islam is a way of life and not just a religion, so many of these groups have islamic names becuase they are aiming to fight for Islam and defend it from outsiders, regardless of how much knoweldge they have of Islam. Then also there are many groups, like hamas, that are legtimate resistance groups who are fighting within their own land for the freedom of their people. But the western powers have labeled them terrorists organizations and basically any group that stands against them and their doings in those muslim lands. Did you know a UK Commander recently said the insurgents in Iraq are justified in attacking and they have every right to? After all, they are fighting to free that land from an occupation. Lot of things come into play and it's never a clear cut picture on both sides.
Exactly. You have to understand what the religion actually teaches. But how do you account for all the "Islam" based terrorist organizations? I'm sure that what they do is wrong and against Islam, but why do they do it? Is there something in Islam that can be easily misunderstood? Or is religion simply the best way to mobilize young men with no hope? At any rate, Islamic terrorist groups must be defeated in order to assure the survival of true Islam. They must be defeated with ideas, and I haven't heard the voices of non-violent Muslims nearly as loudly as the advocates of violence. Why is this?
You arise many points, which have urged me to think and I hope this does justice to my views;
* From the outset you agree, that to understand Islam we look at the teachings and not neccesarily the actions of people. So if our purpose is to understand Islam, as that is the claim, then that's it. But if you are trying to understand how some people use Islam to justify actions, or what ingridients lead to the fruits of terrorism then that is another topic all together.#
Some of the questions raise;
I'm sure that what they do is wrong and against Islam, but why do they do it? Is there something in Islam that can be easily misunderstood? Or is religion simply the best way to mobilize young men with no hope?
Are not to do with understanding Islam, but rather understanding the physcology of some Muslims.
With regards to;
They must be defeated with ideas, and I haven't heard the voices of non-violent Muslims nearly as loudly as the advocates of violence. Why is this?
Where have you been listening? Hearing something is dependent on where one listens. Maybe that is why you have not heard the voices of Muslims who are not terrorist.
I hope I have understood.
Eesa.
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
lol-- I wonder if this guy even bothers to read what he posts?.. an ex. below
format_quote Originally Posted by Ruggedtouch
Babbar Khalsa (BK):
BK is a Sikh movement that aims to establish an independent Khalistan within the Punjab region of India .
Basque Homeland and Liberty (Euskadi ta Askatasuna) (ETA):
What a fantastic cut and paste job (we'll let the Sikhs on the forum handle this one)-- (lump em all together we won't be able to tell the difference?)-- Nicely written, authoritatively delivered, completely nonsensical as usual we applaud you -- You must work in sales or marketing?
Last edited by جوري; 05-06-2007 at 08:49 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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