I'm sure most of the Muslims on this forum are familiar with this verse from the Quran...
[7.157] those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet,
whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law
and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids
them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and
pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure);
He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes
that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour
him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,-
it is they who will prosper."
I came upon this and sort of confused me. Of course this is Allah's response to the prayer of Moses. Two quick questions.
1. How could Moses know about the Injil(Gospel) when it wasn't written until 1400 years later?
2. Where in the Torah or the Gospel does it make mention of an "unlettered prophet"?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Salamualikum.
In his status it says ya he is allah hu alim.
Lying is forbidden in Islam or any religion it can't be tolerated at all times.
ma'assalama
'A prophet I will raise up for them from among their brethren, llike you (ie Moses) and I shall indeed put My words in his mouth' Deut 18:18
Prophet Muhammad pbuh, leader of his community, a family man, who brought laws from God - who else could possibly be compared to Moses? certainly not Jesus pbuh.
secondly, if you read the qur'an excerpt that brother Sami Zaatari quoted, it seems clear to me that 7:157 is not part of the dialogue with Prophet Moses pbuh.
This qur'an is very different from the bible. It's not a story book in the same way as the bible (I mean in a literary sense I'm not being insulting). The qur'an is not a narrative of past happenings, it is a recitation that is addressed to an audience, it addresses us as it addressed the Prophet pbuh and those around him. You are looking for 'mistakes' in what God said to Moses, but God is speaking to us in the qur'an not Moses. I don't think I'm expressing what I mean very well, sorry, perhaps someone else can explain it better.
peace
That is brilliant ukhty.. I didn't bother with a thorough search yesterday.. Thanks for clarifying.. reps.. once I regain my rep-ability insha'Allah--- =)
fi aman illah
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
[indent]Claim: The Torah Itself Predicts Mohammed as a Prophet
Many Muslims will claim that the Torah itself (apparently the "uncorrupted" part) predicts the coming of their so-called prophet some time after the giving of the Torah. All Bible translations are directly from the Hebrew, all of them literal.
Where Did They Get That Idea?
The relevant verse of the Torah is as follows:
Deuteronomy 18:18 A prophet I will raise up for them from amongst their brethren like you and I will give my words into his lips and he will speak about them all that I command him.
We must ask the following: who is "I", who is "you", who is "them/their"? "I" is G-d, "you" is Moses, "them/their" refers to the Israelites.
So a paraphrase could be: G-d will raise up for the Israelites a prophet from the Israelites' brethren some time in the future that will be like Moses and speak the words of G-d.
thanks for the detailed reply, it's interesting to have an insight into the 'old testament' from a Jewish perspective. but you didn't say who the Prophet referred to in 18:18 is? & in what way is he specifically 'like Moses'?
thanks too for the link I will be looking them up insha'Allah, I have a (non-Muslim) nephew who is really interested in studying religions especially Judaism & Islam but it's so hard to find the same kinds of books about Judaism as there are about Islam - probably because Judaism is not about spreading a message as such but is more of a 'closed club' that's quite difficult to get into.....is that a fair comment?
thanks for the detailed reply, it's interesting to have an insight into the 'old testament' from a Jewish perspective. but you didn't say who the Prophet referred to in 18:18 is? & in what way is he specifically 'like Moses'?
thanks too for the link I will be looking them up insha'Allah, I have a (non-Muslim) nephew who is really interested in studying religions especially Judaism & Islam but it's so hard to find the same kinds of books about Judaism as there are about Islam - probably because Judaism is not about spreading a message as such but is more of a 'closed club' that's quite difficult to get into.....is that a fair comment?
Peace to you
Shalom,
Well your observation is a bit true. I would not label Judaism a "closed club" but instead a much more accurate analogy would be a club that is not seeking members, but you can certainly make an appointment. The reason is because non-Jews can go to heaven and have a specific purpose as do Jews, so there is no need to convert unless the non-Jew believes he will spiritualy benefit from a conversion.
Therefore, most Jewish texts, seforim and commentaries are in hebrew because this is the language of the Jewish people.
Oh yea, I think I asked him if he had a Jewish Translation of the Scripture of Dueteronomy that I could read online, have you?
However, I must warn you that they will always be translations, and when reading them you must note that you are most likely not grasping 100% of what the text is trying to say, unless you read and understand the Hebrew langauge. If you understand Hebrew then I can provide many links for you which have kept me up many nights.
Basically, it is a translations, and our Blessed Sages of Memmory told us that translating our scriptures was like the sin of the Golden Calf. It would inspire the gentiles to believe in G-d, but at the same time would create idol worship since they would not be able to grasp the Torah without their knowledge of Hebrew, and the Oral Tradition. Which is exactly what occured after the Torah was translated into Greek and then translated into about every other language known to man from there.
sheesh.....seems to me that for someone who thinks this discussion is such a waste of time you keep coming back to check on what's being said.....there must be a million discussion boards that would bore me to tears but here's a hint for you.........I DON'T GO ON THEM!!
I could , but dont, worship the Spice girls. The doctrine would be Girl Power, Have fun, look after yourself and drink lots n lots of beer and have self confidence. It's not a bad doctrine. The flip side is I would be devoting years of my life to screechy self obsessed dullards pushing out plastic pop when I could be living my own life and making my own path.
And im not a Girl...so its no good to me. they look fairly hot though apart from Scary Spice, who's a moose.
Last edited by barney; 05-22-2007 at 11:08 PM.
Reason: Added clarification on the mooseness of Mel B
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
What with all the cheesy allegory?... at least make it bit more adroit like the Death of the Dauphin-- I find it hard relating these examples to any doctrine, the cross between condescension and clever equivocation is often lost to me, if that is the intent of such posts..
peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Wasnt directed at you Purest, the allagory isnt something someone with faith would understand. I was writing to philosopher and Agnostics/Athiests.
In a nutshell i mean I agree with his post, but some people can gain value in religion.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
LOL, no of course not. But as I've said before to you, Faith is not provable, you have to take it...well...on faith!
Some other posters have called it "faith-blindness". Because it's a in-built part of faith that It cant be questioned to a conclusion. I think it was philosipher who coined the phrase "God Steps In".
I'm not doubting your intelligence in the slightest, but in order to analyse some concepts you would have to lose faith or at the very least question it, and I doubt that you would want that even if you could & Certainly ,i wouldnt want that.
I like a good debate , but if I converted someone to agnosticism, I'd feel like a heel. Sometimes Agnostics are more Evangelical than the Fundamentalists.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
the flying spaghetti monster (may sauce be upon him).
this can only be amusing for so long... how about some new material? If I am going to waste my time reading, I would in the least appreciate some non-recycled rhetoric...
peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
this can only be amusing for so long... how about some new material? If I am going to waste my time reading, I would in the least appreciate some non-recycled rhetoric...
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Quote
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks