Parenting in the west

Salaam

Welcome to the forum .

I read there are many mosques in the west now and they arrange Quran classes on week days. Parents should take kids to attend those classes , attend Jummah salat and try to keep kids away from TV . They must teach them to take good from west and abandon the evil.

If parents themselves are good Muslims ,InshaAllah kids will follow their footsteps.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam

Welcome to the forum .

I read there are many mosques in the west now and they arrange Quran classes on week days. Parents should take kids to attend those classes , attend Jummah salat and try to keep kids away from TV . They must teach them to take good from west and abandon the evil.

If parents themselves are good Muslims ,InshaAllah kids will follow their footsteps.

Some very important points highlighted

As for Quran classes in masajid; you have to be a little more careful. As many as there are genuine Quran teachers, there're also mosques where the "teachers" don't teach anything, and waste two hours on "gossipping". If you find that your child isn't learning; there's a possibility of such, but don't suspect the teacher. Figure out what the problem is, and if the problem is as mentioned; consider taking your child elsewhere for Islamic education. Most masajid have reasonably acceptable standards for teaching, at least a third of the subject areas covered. The "pass rates" in masajid, which conduct examinations; are much higher than state schools (in the UK).

Here in the USA it will depend on where you live. Where my wife and I live would be a very difficult area to raise Children as we are the only 2 Muslims within 200 miles distance. However some areas have very large Muslim populations and in cities such as Dearborn, Michigan they are the majority. Before people migrate to the West especially to the USA they should check out the demographics of the area they are moving to before moving. To say they want to move to the USA can be a challenge and does require looking closely. One has to view each State as having different demographics and within the larger states the population demographics can differ from county to county. Texas for example has counties that are virtually 100% Roman Catholic, some that are predominately Buddhist, it is also home of the largest Hindu shrine outside of India. Yet it has one of the largest Muslim Populations in the USA mostly located in Dallas, Austin and Houston.

It is possible to live in the USA in areas that have virtually no Western influence.

i dont know if i have any "authority" to speak about this, since im not a mother/parent so im not sure how much my opinion really is in touch with reality.

i think the issue of raising children in the west/non-Islamic place really needs to be addressed (if it hasn't already). the issue of (good) parenting is an issue ignored by many people and becuase of this our societies as whole aren't all that great.

often the notion of "staying-at-home-mothers are needed to raise good children," is raised but it has its flaws for the reason that being a stay-at-home mother =/= being a good mother and secondly fathers need to be involved with their children raising as-well. that's a different issue but the point that im trying to make, is that the quality of the parents/parenting is important in raising children. mothers and fathers alike need to be of good quality so to speak. they need to be educated about Islam first and foremost (what are their children rights, prayer, intermingling, what is halal, what is haram, etc). parents themselves need to be educated to teach their children. there is no sense of true (Islamic identity) for a lot of Muslim children, which is really sad.

Parents need to be educated about the schools they send their children to, the friends their children see. having said that, parenting isn't only about authority over their children, they also need to have a good relationship with their children as well (so mercy and understanding aswell), again this goes to mothers and fathers as well.

so many factors contribute to the raising of children it isn't just one issue. im not a mother myself but what i have noticed in life is that everything good and everything that is worthwhile needs the utmost effort and parenting i would imagine parenting would be no different...i think some people (especially those who arent married/dont have children) think that child raising is easy- i dont think it is and i assume it requires an abundance of patience for both the mother and father.

many parents who are migrants and send their children to non-Muslim/non-Islamic schools are oblivious to what goes on. we often send our children to schools or get them involved with anyone and anything believing it is good for them, whilst being oblivious to how it maybe destroying them aswell.
all those little luxuries we have (internet etc) we need to be careful of this and not be sucked in by the fact that since everyone gives their children access to the internet, then we must aswell. we need to take responsibility becuase we are the ones who are responsible for our children at the end of the day. not the neighbor or the family friend who let their children use the internet unsupervised. everyone has a different way of raising their children and we must be smart (and independent) about the way we raise our children because what applies to someone else's children may not necessarily apply to ours.

children are going to hear and see alot of things in and outside the home, but we have to be-careful of not introducing our children to them too early. some parents give their children things when it isn't appropriate for their age under the notion that somewhere along the track anyway they will encounter that particular thing.

not giving in to your children and being "proud" (read: protective) of your authority as a parent helps in raising children. i dont mean proud/protective in an arrogant or unjust manner but when (for eg) you tell your child to do something you shouldn't give in if they dont listen... you have to remain strong otherwise the kid wont take you seriously.

parents often fear that they offend or will cause harm to their child if they are being authoritative such as smacking them when it is needed. but dont forget that it may affect your child in a negative way if you aren't strict with them when they need it. if you are strict/smack them when needed, it teaches them manners and good manners is important (says the one who doesnt have any manners *runs away*)

another thing that could prove bad to a children upbringing is the relationship of the parents themselves. forget domestic violence, its results are clear, but parents who aren't even reading the same page when raising their children and disrespect/disagree of the other parents' opinion in front of the child is a no-go zone.
this is sending the wrong message to your child and chances are that they are going to disrespect and disobey the parent that is being disagreed with. if you have differences sort it out in private/away from the child so that the child doesn't pick up the wrong messages.

generally we need to put out heads together and figure out whats good for our children and what isnt and whatever isnt good for our children we need to be alert to the fact that it may affect them in a bad way as-well. we need to be alert and understand our childs needs aswell. find good and reasonable alternatives for them (another example of a "good quality" parent)...in other words, if we take or give something to our children, what is it going to mean in regards to that particular things opposite.

for example the issue of tv. often this topic is raised (and understandably/rightfully so) but we need to be smart and give our children alternatives i.e if you take the tv away, what are you going to give instead? first issue is that without a tv children will get bored and need a way to relieve their boredom...so if you take the tv away, how are they going to relive their boredom? and 2) how is you child going to feel when everyone else in a society has/watches tv and they are the only ones who dont? how are you going to fill that void of not fitting in? dont say that its not important to fit in, because you aren't being realistic. im not saying that fitting in should be implement at the expense of your childs discipline (of course it shouldn't), but my point is is that you cant ignore these things.

these are just 2 issues i could think of regarding my example of tv... there maybe other issues surrounding taking the tv away...but yes, my point is that we need to address that side pf parenting aswell. we have to address the opposite if you will of what we implement and what we dont. everything has an affect to it and we need to be educated about the affect that it will have.

i personally dont like the idea of raising children around a tv for 1) it deprives them of an imagination 2) it encourages disobedience (to parents and to Allah) but in a time where tv is in every house hold if we take the tv away, as i said we need alternatives. some random example i can think of is, sit and have quality time with your children in the form of playing around with them, coloring with them and that sort of things. children thrive on attention and if that's what you give them (in a balanced way of course) i doubt they would even ask about a tv. in other words make time for your children, they cant raise themselves. of course being a mother or father you probably dont have time for all things like giving your full and whole hearted attention to your children as you are running around caring for your child but take the time out if you do have it, and beware of those useless things you do, but dont really need that may have a bad affect on your child. eg maybe you are going out too much with your friends or excessively have guests over.

children are the bricks blocks for society as a whole and their parents (ie the way they discipline, etc) are the foundation so parents need to get their priorities straightened out and should be cautious about depriving their children of the real things that matter.


this post was a bit random as i just typed it as it came to my head...so it may not make sense.

format_quote Originally Posted by muslim1812

wow some really interesting points raised...I didn't realise I had to come and check the thread I thought I'd get a notification once someone had posted!

I would have thought so too. I know that I do. You might want to your CP and check how you've set your subscription notifications.


As to the topic of the thread...
I think that one has to ask the question, what does one consider good parenting?

Is one's goal as a parent to raise a child that turns out according to some ideal we have created in our own mind -- believing what we believe, valuing what we value, doing what we would have them do?

OR

Is one's goal as a parent to raise an independent adult who functions reasonably well in the world interacting with others and capable of analyzing a a variety of situtations and adapting to make resonable decisions relevant to his/her own goals and personally held values?


That choice has nothing to do with whether one lives in the west or some other culture. But the actual parenting acts will vary considerably, no matter the culture, depending on which type of parent one desires to be.

format_quote Originally Posted by muslim1812

Woodrow you're the only muslim within 200 miles!...that is far...i think its right what you said, that looking at the location and the demographics of it is important...but its like thucydides1987 implied that maybe its good to let children learn about the society they live in...i believe it would allow them to grow up with an open mind and be more socially aware.

practically speaking it is an issue which needs addressing...i just don't know where you'd start..

For those who are thinking of moving to the USA it would be a good idea to first look up the demographics of the State they are planning to move to. A quick over view:



For more specific information one can go to HERE

There will be different parenting issues in each State and in some States it will be easier to assure a child will get at least a basic Islamic education. It can be of importance for those with children to be aware there are 21 States that have basically a 0 Muslim population. While ND is one listed as 0 Muslims it should be noted that Fargo has a fairly large Muslim population although most are not citizens and hence are not counted in the Statistics.

i mean it does seem to me that there is a lottttttttttt more to raising a child than meets the eye, and you wouldn't just want to raise any child, surely you'd want them to succeed and give them the chance to be the best in all walks of life. You'd think being a good muslim would help to raise good muslim children but i've seen many examples of children with pious parents who seem to have gone off the rails...the generation gap just seems a bit too big and there's a misunderstanding there.

i think sometimes parents may forget that after the age of 5/6 a child still needs to be shown love. obviously this affection would change as the child grows older, but it seems sometimes that some parents seem to forget that even in their teens, children still need their parents love and attention and not necessarily physically (though that may be very relevant as-well) but even trying to joke around with their children. some relationship between the child and parent is sometimes quite formal and official.

teaching them Quran and deciding what masjid to go to seems like to tip of the iceberg, there must surely be so many situations similar to that.

i think there's also the problem of dropping your kids as the masjid to get them out of your hair whilst you don’t really go to the masjid yourself and/or dont have a proper Islamic environment in the home...that’s a problem aswell.

practically speaking it is an issue which needs addressing...i just don't know where you'd start..

from whatever is going wrong. thats usually a clear indication and sign of what and where needs to be changed.

and also needing to get along between themselves...

This (the following) is really important as well and I’ve seen and heard cases where the mother and father have different ideas for a particular aspect in their child's raising.

The following is just my opinion and is based on my own observations so again im not sure if it's. i'll start with sisters first. Sometimes our love for our children can be so blinding to the extent that we don’t realise how this may have a negative impact to their upbringing. Too much of anything is not good and too much of love isn’t any different.

It’s probably hard, but it is important to balance your love for your child with discipline...these 2 must be on the same par (i know this is the case, because that’s what my mum says). Having too much of either isn’t doing any favors to your child. Children need to learn manners (for eg) and showing too much love unnecessarily/at the wrong time (like when your child is in trouble) is sending the wrong messages to your child.

Anyway the point is, is that naturally is that waking up in the middle of the night to attend to their needs, and all the rest of it we tend to (and understandably so) think that our way of perception of parenting is the only way and get defensive over this.

But (imo) males /fathers also help in their child’s upbringing in the sense that because they DONT have that motherly instinct like you would, he will see things in a different light. I don’t really know how to explain my point but that non-motherly instinct in males helps in not seeing things from how we, as mothers ,may see them...and the reason that is so, is because their love towards their children as fathers, will probably be a little different from the love we have as mothers...it maybe directed/expressed in a different manner and so i suppose you could say that this difference will balance out that blinding love that i was previously talking about, where in some cases may blind us from giving the best to our children.


Now for the brothers...you need to respect your wives’ disciplining and don’t disagree with her in front of your child. It is such an insult. Whilst you are at work your wives are spending all day balancing between keeping a house tidy and raising/disciplining your children...so when you come home from work and your child after getting a whack for one reason or another comes to you looking all upset, just be a bit mindful and considerate that he/she may actually be in trouble for something. You have no idea of what has caused your child to be upset and for all you know you could just be undoing some very important disciplining.

I’ve seen this happen where the child goes to the dad when he/she is in trouble and the dad just feels sorry for him/her and doesn’t take the mothers hard work of discipline into consideration. Plus it makes the mother feel stupid and belittled in front of her child.

And fathers, if you do differ with your wives on a particular aspect of her raising, take her feelings as a mother into consideration. Just as you are defensive of your role as the “hunter, gatherer” chances are, is she too will be very defensive of her role as a mother... so when advising her, advise her in away where you dont come across as if you are challenging her role.

and another thing that fathers should know is that your children (especially your daughters) need your love. kids adore their fathers, so make sure you attend to your child's need in that respect. dont make the mistake in thinking that it is feminine... i did bring this particular point up for a specific reason though and that is that when your daughters are ready for marriage she is going to look for a husband based on how her father raised/treated her (studies actually show this, but it is true)...

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i really hope that members who are already parents can pitch in this thread. it would give us a more realistic insight of what it’s like to be a parent and the difficulties faced when raising children and how to overcome them. what so far has been posted in this thread is interesting, but it would be better for a more realistic input.

do children really turn out how you raised them?

is there a difference in parenting between a mother and father...on other words who has it more difficult?

Just to re-affirm what Ummu Sufyaan said here:

format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan

i think sometimes parents may forget that after the age of 5/6 a child still needs to be shown love. obviously this affection would change as the child grows older, but it seems sometimes that some parents seem to forget that even in their teens, children still need their parents love and attention and not necessarily physically (though that may be very relevant as-well) but even trying to joke around with their children. some relationship between the child and parent is sometimes quite formal and official.

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I would suggest that all ages need to be shown a parent's love.


"it is the overt duty of all those who profess to believe in God and/or stand for justice to oppose the tyranny of Powers who act as being beyond reproach." --excerpt from an 12-12-10 article on ISLAM21C



Such is good advice not only when dealing with governments, but also in the way one functions as head of a household. Sometimes as parents we feel that we know better than our children what is best for them, and while we probably really do, nonetheless we need to be careful that we don't exercise the authority Allah has given as a tyrant. Our role is to parent, not to dictate. We must take care to always temper our authority to control with the recognition that we are also authorized to express love. Our obligation is to find balance in raising our children.
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format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Just to re-affirm what Ummu Sufyaan said here:

I would suggest that all ages need to be shown a parent's love.

"it is the overt duty of all those who profess to believe in God and/or stand for justice to oppose the tyranny of Powers who act as being beyond reproach." --excerpt from an 12-12-10 article on ISLAM21C



Such is good advice not only when dealing with governments, but also in the way one functions as head of a household. Sometimes as parents we feel that we know better than our children what is best for them, and while we probably really do, nonetheless we need to be careful that we don't exercise the authority Allah has given as a tyrant. Our role is to parent, not to dictate. We must take care to always temper our authority to control with the recognition that we are also authorized to express love. Our obligation is to find balance in raising our children.
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im not quite following what you're getting at here. though i can understand how not showing love to your child can be seen as and/or lead to oppression of the child, it has not at all been suggested that not showing love to ones children is indeed oppression and therefore the need "to stand up to tyrany," as you have indirectly suggested in your post, is not really relevant to this discussion at all.

but of course if parents are indeed oppressive standing up against oppression requires tact otherwise things may backfire onto us, making our situation worse. sometimes some parents, due to their old age perhaps dont realize that they maybe oppressing their children and so tact especially in such a case would be even more require.