I understand Allah is just and will not punish a person if he/she was already created in that manner so the pen would be lifted up for such person just as it is lifted for an insane person.
No body forces you to indulge in any act it's completely your choice with the exception of circumstantial cases but when do any act it is your choice even if there were driving forces motives and temptations it all boils down to whether you choose or allow that you do so. In relation with homosexuality no one argues that it's a feeling that are involuntary and out of the hand but transforming those feelings into action hence homosexuality the act is what a person will be held accountable for.
Okay so you are having homosexual urges. And you don't do anything homosexual with anyone or watch/read anything about it.
Doesn't that still mean that in the future, you will still be a homosexual? It can't be changed right?
Are you serious? Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala destroyed a whole community due to homosexuality. Are you saying that He creates them like that then tells them that it is a sin, then destroys them when they perform the act?
They are born that way, wouldn't Allah Subhanahuwatallah remove the Homosexual urges if it was wrong?
I don´t understand why kind of matters as homosexuality cause so much worry and discussion with muslims. If they make sin together, it is they sin. We should think more how much we make sin, not how much others do.
If in Europe or in the USA some non-muslim communities are accepting them as marriage, what it means to us? Nothing.
I understand this. We shouldn't really care/worry about what others are doing.
What I am saying is... are we born gay/straight/bisexual or is it learned?
Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah () said:
Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian. (Agreed upon).
Since every human being is born upon 'fitra', every belief besides this is a complete lie. This mytical belief that people are born as homosexuals is just an excuse to fool people to accept it.
Salaam.
Okay, so you're saying that it is a choice to be homosexual?
Okay so you are having homosexual urges. And you don't do anything homosexual with anyone or watch/read anything about it.
Doesn't that still mean that in the future, you will still be a homosexual? It can't be changed right?
It's haraam I am not homosexual but in a case of such a person must not cross the boundaries anything can be changed with the help of God but a person must also be determined and take steps to change. There is such a thing as ex gay I suppose one can become straight afterall.
It's haraam I am not homosexual but in a case of such a person must not cross the boundaries anything can be changed with the help of God but a person must also be determined and take steps to change. There is such a thing as ex gay I suppose one can become straight afterall.
I never did say you were gay, or anyone who answered, was just an example.
Here's one; What if it was the complete opposite. Being gay was the right and being straight was wrong according to a make-believe religion you are part of. So you're saying a straight person can also turn gay if he takes the steps? I find that hard to believe.
If people are born homosexual wouldn't homosexuals eventually die out since they lack the means to reproduce?
Can all people with sexual deviance's play the born this way card? Can a pedophile say, "I was born with this inclination towards children its not my fault why are you blaming me, this is the way god made me why should I be punished for acting upon desires that were with me from birth, I'm naturally like this."
.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
I never did say you were gay, or anyone who answered, was just an example.
Here's one; What if it was the complete opposite. Being gay was the right and being straight was wrong according to a make-believe religion you are part of. So you're saying a straight person can also turn gay if he takes the steps? I find that hard to believe.
Im sorry I know you didnt mean that but I just wanted to clear it up for anyone who misreads it. Your question is a tough one if it was the opposite then I wonder how we came here, but I dont think that religion will play a big role if Im straight then Im straight regardless of what religion says but this can be turned around too and so the bottom line is to be patient and not give in. And I know many people might disagree with me but yes I do believe you can become gay if you try to just as you can become straight if you try to. I concluded this from bi sexual behavior I think it validates my point. May God helps us all.
Many men who involved in homosexuality actually are not gay, but just men who have tendency to bisexuality, even many of them are known as straight men in society.
In another side, there are men who are gay, but they choose to not involved in homosexuality, or have stopped from homosexuality.
There are no people who born as gay, but the wrong family upbringing can make someone grow up as gay.
Can all people with sexual deviance's play the born this way card? Can a pedophile say, "I was born with this inclination towards children its not my fault why are you blaming me, this is the way god made me why should I be punished for acting upon desires that were with me from birth, I'm naturally like this."
Many men who involved in homosexuality actually are not gay, but just men who have tendency to bisexuality, even many of them are known as straight men in society.
In another side, there are men who are gay, but they choose to not involved in homosexuality, or have stopped from homosexuality.
There are no people who born as gay, but the wrong family upbringing can make someone grow up as gay.
With what you are saying and going against my point and saying that people are born gay, wouldn't that make EVERY HUMAN bisexual!?
I feel that it's likely a combination of nature and nurture, but also depends on the person. I've heard of some people being able to "switch sides" during their lives, while others have always felt a certain way.
Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah () said:
Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian. (Agreed upon).
Since every human being is born upon 'fitra', every belief besides this is a complete lie. This mytical belief that people are born as homosexuals is just an excuse to fool people to accept it.
Technically, that hadith is talking about belief, right? And sexuality isn't much of a belief... Sure, you could say parents make their children Jews or Christians, but can you say your parents make you straight? I don't see how this hadith applies.
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
It is a duty upon you as a Muslim that you enjoin the good and forbid the evil.
I've seen you flare up in other threads when this topic comes up. Don't use the whole "enjoin the good and forbid the evil" to give yourself and other Muslims a free pass to be insensitive and, in some cases, hateful towards homosexuals.
format_quote Originally Posted by Iceee
They are born that way, wouldn't Allah Subhanahuwatallah remove the Homosexual urges if it was wrong?
Well, some people could consider it a rather difficult 'test' that they have been given. Others could see it another way. According to most religious people, ogling, impure thoughts, or looking for a relationship with a woman is "wrong", yet most of us were born with the inclination to do just that.
format_quote Originally Posted by Salahudeen
Can all people with sexual deviance's play the born this way card? Can a pedophile say, "I was born with this inclination towards children its not my fault why are you blaming me, this is the way god made me why should I be punished for acting upon desires that were with me from birth, I'm naturally like this."
I don't think it works that way, and I don't think you honestly think the two are exactly the same. Generally pedophilia endangers a child, whereas homosexuality is relatively harmless.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Loren
Are you serious? Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala destroyed a whole community due to homosexuality. Are you saying that He creates them like that then tells them that it is a sin, then destroys them when they perform the act?
Well, they did a lot more than just be homosexual in that story. It's a bit unfair to say that they were destroyed by divine will just because they slept with men.
With what you are saying and going against my point and saying that people are born gay, wouldn't that make EVERY HUMAN bisexual!?
Basically every man is potential to become bisexual. But I'm sure, there's no anyone who born as gay.
Naturally, when someone born, he has very strong tendency to heterosexual. However, what he experienced in life can raise his tendency to homosexual. If his tendency to heterosexual and homosexual is balance enough, he becomes bisexual, if his tendency to homosexual is stronger than heterosexual, he becomes gay, if his tendency to heterosexual is stronger, he becomes straight.
Straight man not attracted to same gender because his tendency to homosexual is very very weak. Contrast with gay who his tendency to opposite gender is very very weak.
Last edited by ardianto; 02-24-2013 at 08:02 AM.
Reason: double quote
Basically every man is potential to become bisexual. But I'm sure, there's no anyone who born as gay.
Naturally, when someone born, he has very strong tendency to heterosexual. However, what he experienced in life can raise his tendency to homosexual. If his tendency to heterosexual and homosexual is balance enough, he becomes bisexual, if his tendency to homosexual is stronger than heterosexual, he becomes gay, if his tendency to heterosexual is stronger, he becomes straight.
Straight man not attracted to same gender because his tendency to homosexual is very very weak. Contrast with gay who his tendency to opposite gender is very very weak.
Kk, I kind of agree with that. A lot of old men do tell me they're bisexuals. Some like men more than woman. Same vise versa.
"However, what he experienced in life can raise his tendency to homosexual." Give examples...
"However, what he experienced in life can raise his tendency to homosexual." Give examples...
Sexual abuse of the same sex that experienced in childhood can make someone grow up to be gay, although not always. A boy who grow up with feeling as weak person that need protection from someone also can be more attracted to man because he is expecting a protector.
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