Deutronomy 18:18
- Thread starter alcurad
- Start date
- Replies 47
- Views 10K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | PHP 8.4 patch for vBulletin 4.2.5
did you bother to read it?
anyway...for us
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...34277727-sacrifice-ismaeel-s.html#post1102495
Last edited:
Sorry but there is no proof that the Quran is trustworthy over the previous scriptures.
The Bible has withstood years of attack, tearing apart, banning, criticism, etc., when you look at the history of the Holy Bible it is the most miraculous book. Look at the prophecies that have been fufilled in the Bible, really the only test available to us today to prove that a writing is from GOD.
Deutronomy 18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
Even in your Quran Jesus is the prophet that had God's Word thrown away to him!
4:171
Literal:You The Book's people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion, and do not say on God except the truth , but the Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son God's messenger and His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him; so believe with God, and His messengers, and do not say: "Three." Stop best for you, but God one God, His praise/glory that to be for him a child; for Him what in the skies/space and what in the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with God guardian/protector .
The Bible has withstood years of attack, tearing apart, banning, criticism, etc., when you look at the history of the Holy Bible it is the most miraculous book. Look at the prophecies that have been fufilled in the Bible, really the only test available to us today to prove that a writing is from GOD.
Deutronomy 18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
Even in your Quran Jesus is the prophet that had God's Word thrown away to him!
4:171
Literal:You The Book's people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion, and do not say on God except the truth , but the Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son God's messenger and His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him; so believe with God, and His messengers, and do not say: "Three." Stop best for you, but God one God, His praise/glory that to be for him a child; for Him what in the skies/space and what in the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with God guardian/protector .
True as far as non-Muslims and kuffar are concerned, but where we are concerned there is ample proof otherwise we would not be Muslim.
comparative forum is for comparing what each of us believes and it is not for you to say things that you do, the tone you use etc
Yes I read it.
My point is that Muslims see the Torah as unreliable since some of it contradicts the Quran, but to reach the conclusions of the article you have to assume that the text is accurate to the individual letter, otherwise the prophecy would mean something else.
why is is it that you can not allow us to believe the way we do and we in turn do same for you?
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134279087-deutronomy-18-18-a.html#post1105342
how hard is the concept of "live and let live" to understand?
http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...-harmony-between-bible-quran.html#post1105083
Last edited:
I'm sorry dooster I was replying to - "The Qur'an is trustworthy over the Books that preceded it. Therefore, whatever in these previous Books conforms to the Qur'an is true, and whatever disagrees with the Qur'an is false.''
I have been on many forums and am tired of Muslims saying that the Bible is corrupt when the Quran validates the Torah and Gospel.
Yes if someone wants to believe in something then so be it. Problem - converts from Islam to Christianity get killed in Islamic countries.
I have been on many forums and am tired of Muslims saying that the Bible is corrupt when the Quran validates the Torah and Gospel.
Yes if someone wants to believe in something then so be it. Problem - converts from Islam to Christianity get killed in Islamic countries.
Well I'm still trying to ascertain exactly what it is that you do believe since you haven't given me any information regarding the points I'm trying to make.
If you want to be left to yourself so you can worship in private then perhaps participating in a religious forum isn't the best thing for you. I would prefer to have a discussion because at the moment this scenario doesn't make sense to me.
Hi,
Could you please elaborate on your hypothesis. I mean you are not going to get anywhere in a debate with no realy proof of your premise's, are you?. If you really know that the Quran is not trustworthy (astagfirullah), then show us with quotes or what ever means neccesary. Otherwise what you just said is plain wrong, and the Quran is trustworthy.
Peace.
Hi, I dont think you have understood Islamic theology, as we dont see the original Torah as unreliable as it came from Allah swt through holy prophets, but we see the present day one as unreliable as it is edited by humans.
This is were the human editing plays it's part, as the Contradiction comes from the editing of human beings.
Peace
Hi,
You get some people in Islamic countries drinking, commiting shirk, and murder, I mean all sorts of things, but does it mean that Islam teaches these bad actions? No.
There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.
For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression" (2:190-193).
It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.
Another similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).
Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."
Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.
The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."
Peace
Hi again,
I see something really silly coming from you Azy, hypocrisy.
I belive you can see doorster way of life is Islam, and strangly comeing from you your way of life is undisclosed, now if you want to keep your faith hidden from others, and be isolated in a private room were you can contemplate your faith, so be it, JUST MAKE SURE YOU DONT COME TO A RELIGIOUS FORUM, as it isnt the best thing for you.
Peace
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
i must admit that i have no clue what the OP was on about, but when i see and error this big, it begs a response.
as far as the OT is concerned, not even the Torah is the word of Moses [or God, for that matter] anymore. there is evidence of writings from both the Mush*ite Priests(descendants of Moses) in Shiloh [known as E] and the Levite Priests(descendants of Aaron) in Jerusalem [known as J] as well as much later work by the Priests in Jerusalem [known as P]. there is also evidence of editing in the Torah as well as other writings by Jeremiah and/or his Scribe Baruch [known as Dtr1 & Dtr2, their collective work, btw]with some final edits and redactings along with other writings by Ezra and Nehemiah [known as R]. see Richard Elliott Friedman's Who Wrote The Bible?, preferably the 2nd edition for an amazing analysis of the writings. [Mr Friedman, btw, is a Professor of Hebrew and comparative literature and holds the Katzin chair at the University of California in San Diego as well as having earned hi doctorate at Harvard, he was a visiting scholar at both Oxford and Cambridge.]
as for the NT, Christians can't even agree on what books are a part of the NT, and within the books that they do agree, they can't agree on what texts to use!
my favorite is in the King James version in 1 John 5:
because no-one really knows for sure who wrote most of the NT, [and it certainly was written at the command of Jesus, pbuh] it IS claimed that it was all inspired by the "holy spirit/ghost." the King James was one of the 1st widely available translations of Greek writings, although when it is alleged that Jesus, pbuh, is quoted; Aramaic is used!
back to the verses, now # 7 there is NOT in the early manuscripts! in case you forgot:
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
now, this begs the question, "if the authors and scholars of the NT have no clue whether or not there ARE 3 that bear witness in heaven, and especially the holy ghost bit, then does this not prove that these "scriptures are NOT inspired by the holy ghost? i mean would not this holy ghost no whether or not he is a witness in heaven or not? and if not, we can DEFINITIVELY deduce that AT THE LEAST is is not god!
we could be here all day, but i'll just remind you that what is considered the earliest gospel doesn't even have Jesus, pbuh, in resurrection form! just the disciples finding an empty tomb!
in Mark 16 we read:
and ALL of the above is an addition! so, it [the NT] IS a book of forgeries whether you call it a miracle or not!
what we DO know, is that if you took ALL of the worlds "Holy Books", and threw them in the ocean and destroyed all software copies of said books so that all the remained is what is in peoples hearts and minds, within 2 days, using Hafiz from 8 different countries, from all 4 schools of Islamic thought, then a Qur'an could be reproduced. IN 2 DAYS! using Catholics and Protestants, you could even agree on what Books belong in the Bible, let alone what verses in said books!
edit: and for this little experiment, we wouldn't let Dr Zakir Naik recall them for them!
i think the Miracle here IS the Qur'an!
Last edited:
As soon as All Christians agree on only one or two Bibles translation, Muslims will be more than happy to believe whatever in these books.
So, Christians before you ask Muslim to believe your book, go and reconcile with your fellow Christians on one translation first.
And don't forget to get your OT agree with the Jewish book, because not a single Jew agree with Christians OT.
For example over 1 billion Catholic add 7 books to your Bible, can you explain how, and why?
So, Christians before you ask Muslim to believe your book, go and reconcile with your fellow Christians on one translation first.
And don't forget to get your OT agree with the Jewish book, because not a single Jew agree with Christians OT.
For example over 1 billion Catholic add 7 books to your Bible, can you explain how, and why?
I am well aware of that. Do you have a copy of the original Torah lying around?
I'm aware of that also, not really what I meant though. I was interested in his views on this specific point.
This forum is for the discussion of Islam and that's what I'm trying to do.
Regarding my way of life, it is not so much a matter of it being undisclosed as undefined. I'm not a follower of any particular religion or ideology, I'm flexible and my opinions or actions could change from one day to the next. The only rules I tend to follow are those of the land, maybe I should put 'British Citizen' in there.
If it is intended to mean my spiritual leanings I should put agnostic, but that isn't an all-encompassing way of life in the same way as Islam or Judaism.
lookie see at general forum index
Discussions about other religions in existence
it probably means "don't try to twist every thread you see in to an anti-Islam hatefest"