Has a Happy Person Ever Become Atheist?

Hamayun said:
Erm... what kind of a rule is that?

I can prove my biscuit box does not contain any biscuits...
Click to expand...

But can you prove that a 10 metre-square red chocolate digestive doesn't exist, and never has existed anywhere?
 
Is it me, or is this discussion becoming a little surreal? :?
 
glo said:
Is it me, or is this discussion becoming a little surreal? :?
Click to expand...

I suspect to many atheists this whole forum and more in general belief in God is surreal :statisfie. You don't need this thread for that :).

Always fascinating to see how people can so fundamentally disagree with each other and as a consequence confuse the heck out of each other!
 
Last edited:
glo said:
Is it me, or is this discussion becoming a little surreal? :?
Click to expand...

Maybe. :D

Sometimes, though, in discussing a philosophical point such examples serve to clarify rather than confuse.

Here, the basic claim being made by Converse02 was that

it is nearly impossible for a person to "prove" the non-existance of something
Click to expand...

Hamayun disagrees, and introduced his empty biscuit box as an example of why. My response to that is that it is simply a special case, hence my own example. I find his response unconvincing as he qualified his "yep" with the proviso "with enough money and man power why not?". As the necessary thorough search of time and space for my hypothetical biscuit would seem to inevitably involve the use of money and manpower that would be "nearly impossible" to obtain and deploy, he fails to contest the original claim.
 
Three things:

1. If the 10 metre-square red chocolate digestive exists then we find the baker who made it.

2. If every human on the planet denies baking it then it doesn't exist in the present moment.

3. Even if it existed in the past then it would have still been baked by someone.

We all know it is impossible for a 10 metre-square red chocolate digestive to bake itself.

Let me ask you a question...

As an Atheist you obviously believe beyond any doubt that there is no creator. What evidence proved that to you with no room for doubt? Or is Atheism a faith too?
 
Last edited:
Hamayun said:
Let me ask you a question...

As an Atheist you obviously believe beyond any doubt that there is no creator. What evidence proved that to you with no room for doubt? Or is Atheism a faith too?
Click to expand...

'Obviously'? No, I don't believe there was/is a creator, but not 'beyond any doubt'. God is perhaps the most obvious example of what we have been talking about; how can you possibly prove He does not exist? Particularly when believers come up with ever more ingenious arguments as to why, if God does exist, He refuses to provide any evidence of same such as, perhaps, a personal appearance or two.

Atheism is a belief, not a 'faith'; it fits none of the definitions of that word whether you happen to be an atheist or not. Buddhism, however, involves faith even if isn't a faith. Faith, though, is founded on belief, and to me one (the efficacy of the Buddhist path to liberation and the end of suffering) is far more believable than the other (a creator God).
 
Trumble said:
'Obviously'? No, I don't believe there was/is a creator, but not 'beyond any doubt'. God is perhaps the most obvious example of what we have been talking about; how can you possibly prove He does not exist? Particularly when believers come up with ever more ingenious arguments as to why, if God does exist, He refuses to provide any evidence of same such as, perhaps, a personal appearance or two.

Atheism is a belief, not a 'faith'; it fits none of the definitions of that word whether you happen to be an atheist or not. Buddhism, however, involves faith even if isn't a faith. Faith, though, is founded on belief, and to me one (the efficacy of the Buddhist path to liberation and the end of suffering) is far more believable than the other (a creator God).
Click to expand...

Thank you for your honest reply :)
 
Hamayun said:
Erm... what kind of a rule is that?

I can prove my biscuit box does not contain any biscuits...
Click to expand...

Can you? What if the second you close the box the buiscuits magically appear but disappear when you open it again? What if they are magical invisible biscuits? What if you are dreaming and only think you are looking in the box?

I can prove there are no feet in my shoes sitting on the shelf...

I can prove a ginger person does not exist in my family....
Click to expand...

No more than an atheist can prove there is no God. There are always little possibilities as ridiculus as they may seem to us.

Have you got anything concrete to support your claim?
Click to expand...

It isn't his claim we are looking at. It is yours.
 
I have not read the entire discussion but would like to add this:

You cannot "prove" (the existence OR non existence) of something that is not physically measurable (or should I say alterable) by what we have today.
 
:sl:
qweretyq said:
You cannot "prove" (the existence OR non existence) of something that is not physically measurable (or should I say alterable) by what we have today.
Click to expand...
To conclusively prove the existence of Allah beyond any doubt, I believe that one needs an observable miracle. I believe that such a miracle does exist - the Qur'an. However, many people including Muslims don't understand how the Qur'an is a miracle and what is miraculous about it.
 
No, a "miracle" would not conclusiely prove the existence of Allah. Even the most amazing "miracle", say the moon splits in two one day and then joins together again, would prove nothing other than we don't understand how it happened and we can't explain it. It could be Allah. It could also be any number of other gods and any number of other forces or unknown phenomena.

The Koran is a with some rather vague statements that were later claimed as prophecy or godly knowledge. But you can get the same sort of thing from other religions, nostradamus, horoscopes, and "psychics".
 
Greetings
Pygoscelis said:
No, a "miracle" would not conclusiely prove the existence of Allah. Even the most amazing "miracle", say the moon splits in two one day and then joins together again, would prove nothing other than we don't understand how it happened and we can't explain it. It could be Allah. It could also be any number of other gods and any number of other forces or unknown phenomena.
Click to expand...
Agreed. What if somebody who had always been known for being honest and trustworthy, nicknamed Al-Ameen (the trustworthy) claimed to be a prophet of Allah and said that to prove it, they would perform a miracle by splitting the moon into two? If you then hypotheticaly witnessed them having done such a thing, would you consider them to be truthful?

Pygoscelis said:
The Koran is a with some rather vague statements that were later claimed as prophecy or godly knowledge. But you can get the same sort of thing from other religions, nostradamus, horoscopes, and "psychics".
Click to expand...
I don't consider these prophecies to provide the strongest proof of the miraculous nature of the Qur'an, although I believe that they do provide some evidence.
 
Last edited:
Uthmān;1160214 said:
Greetings Agreed. What if somebody who had always been known for being honest and trustworthy, nicknamed Al-Ameen (the trustworthy) claimed to be a prophet of Allah and said that to prove it, they would perform a miracle by splitting the moon into two? If you then hypotheticaly witnessed them having done such a thing, would you consider them to be truthful?
Click to expand...

I would be extremely suspicious and ponder alternative explanations, especially if he then claimed to speak for this Allah and demanded something from us. It would certainly be a alot more convincing than a story about such an event though.
 
This is another big stereotype of atheists religious people hold. Religious people are not necessarily the happiest in the world. Look at all the wars, destruction, death, discrimination in the name of God.

I was unhappy and especially hurt before I confidently lost God, but it was by religion that I was suffering. After I became an open atheist, I have become so involved in my own philosophy for life, I feel very honest to myself and could not be happier.
 
Podarok said:
This is another big stereotype of atheists religious people hold. Religious people are not necessarily the happiest in the world. Look at all the wars, destruction, death, discrimination in the name of God.

I was unhappy and especially hurt before I confidently lost God, but it was by religion that I was suffering. After I became an open atheist, I have become so involved in my own philosophy for life, I feel very honest to myself and could not be happier.
Click to expand...

99.9% of good deeds go unrecorded by history. There are countless billions of us. Those negative events you mentioned, first of all are just a drop in the ocean compared to the good true religiosity brings. Even disregarding the fact that the religious people fighting on those wars were fine with it but the people on the RECEIVING end of the war were the ones who were unhappy. We are not talking about the historical effects of religion or lack thereof.

Secondly, you logic is strange. How could a person's beliefs hurt them? It seems more likely that events in your life are what actually caused you suffering, which was heightened by the lack of ability for your religion to comfort you.

Third, you proved my point. Suffering led you to atheism.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
99.9% of good deeds go unrecorded by history. There are countless billions of us. Those negative events you mentioned, first of all are just a drop in the ocean compared to the good true religiosity brings. Even disregarding the fact that the religious people fighting on those wars were fine with it but the people on the RECEIVING end of the war were the ones who were unhappy. We are not talking about the historical effects of religion or lack thereof.
Click to expand...

So, all the death, terror, discrimination and endless reign of corruption from religions throughout the ages is nothing compared to how many good deeds religions put out there? Don't you think if that were true, then there would be no question about it?

It's just easier and more effective to massively destroy than to massively build, I guess.

And, even if the religious are fine with fighting in the wars they started, everyone is affected- including the people not in that religion.

And it wasn't my beliefs of any religion that hurt me, so if that is what you mean by my logic, that's not the story... :X:X
 
Podarok said:
So, all the death, terror, discrimination and endless reign of corruption from religions throughout the ages is nothing compared to how many good deeds religions put out there? Don't you think if that were true, then there would be no question about it?

It's just easier and more effective to massively destroy than to massively build, I guess.

And, even if the religious are fine with fighting in the wars they started, everyone is affected- including the people not in that religion.

And it wasn't my beliefs of any religion that hurt me, so if that is what you mean by my logic, that's not the story... :X:X
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you misunderstood my post.

I said 99.9% of good deeds go unrecorded. It doesn't affect most people because they don't know about it in the first place.

Also, I never said it was your beliefs which hurt you neither was that my point. That is what you said.

"But it was by religion that I was suffering" <---- your words

That being said, there was a point in my life when I too was happy making up my own philosophies of the world. I was reading all the classic philosophy books and taking what I felt was true.

That stopped when I realized the sheer foolishness of it. Everyone has their own philosophy so... who's is actually the truth? Each new age had a new philosophy. Humans will never find the truth themselves because they are fundamentally handicapped by their own life experiences and passions. Only Allah, the one who set reality in motion, would be able to set the truth straight. Islamic theology has remained unchanged through time, which says alot to me about its truthfulness.
 
Last edited:

Similar Threads

Back
Top