What does Islam say about wealth and heaven?

[Follower]

Proverbs 28
8 He who increases his wealth by exorbitant interest
amasses it for another, who will be kind to the poor

Some take the following literally to mean it is ok to collect interest.

Matthew 25
24"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

The fact that there are no late payments is good but the sharia system could have it's own pitfalls if the lenders jack up the price of the item to be resold. It could end up costing more then it would have with interest tacked on.

"In an Islamic mortgage transaction, instead of loaning the buyer money to purchase the item, a bank might buy the item itself from the seller, and re-sell it to the buyer at a profit, while allowing the buyer to pay the bank in installments. However, the fact that it is profit cannot be made explicit and therefore there are no additional penalties for late payment."

 

[Yanal]

In an Islamic view only muslims are to enter/attain paradise which clearly is a no for your first question. Your second question is a bit dull..and hard to understand,can you rephrase so I can properly comprehend and insh'Allah give you mine answer.

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Yep accept and get a big kiss. Reject and burn forever.
Nice choice that.
Oops that is not a choice it is an ultimatum. Imagine that.

You can tell your God that man does not do well under threats and He can shove them.
What kind of dumb God would use threat as a tool of social manipulation?

Regards
DL

I don't get it. If you don't do your work in school you will fail. If you don't do your work in life you will fail. Have you ever told your teacher to shove it when she asked you to hand in HW?

Get real. But it's funny seeing you get high off insulting God. Would you be willing to undertake an organized debate?

 

[Great I am not]

I don't get it. If you don't do your work in school you will fail. If you don't do your work in life you will fail. Have you ever told your teacher to shove it when she asked you to hand in HW?

Get real. But it's funny seeing you get high off insulting God. Would you be willing to undertake an organized debate?

In school, the teacher is there to question.
God is an absentee teacher who has no right to judge unless He is here to judge.

Debate is always good.

Subject?

Regards
DL

 

[AntiKarateKid]

In school, the teacher is there to question.
God is an absentee teacher who has no right to judge unless He is here to judge.

Debate is always good.

Subject?

Regards
DL

God is here and he is judging you. You will find out if you passed the test when you die.

If you wish, make a new thread with the subject as perhaps "god has no right to judge"? I'm not sure but make it whatever you feel like but be specific so our debate can go somewhere.

Moreover, thanks for responding to this post, but there are about 4 or five others which totally rip your statement a new one.

 

[Great I am not]

God is here and he is judging you. You will find out if you passed the test when you die.

If you wish, make a new thread with the subject as perhaps "god has no right to judge"? I'm not sure but make it whatever you feel like but be specific so our debate can go somewhere.

Moreover, thanks for responding to this post, but there are about 4 or five others which totally rip your statement a new one.

The only way to refute that God is absentee is for Him to show himself. You will notice that He does not.

So much for your 4 or 5 who do not believe this simple fact.

Regards
DL

 

[Zafran]

The only way to refute that God is absentee is for Him to show himself. You will notice that He does not.

So much for your 4 or 5 who do not believe this simple fact.

Regards
DL

Thats like saying air is absent becasue we cannot see it. For air to exist it would have to "show itself" - Not realy a sound way of thinking.

Human perception is very weak anyway - if its too dark humans cannot see anything and if its to light we get blinded by the light.

 

[Great I am not]

Thats like saying air is absent becasue we cannot see it. For air to exist it would have to "show itself" - Not realy a sound way of thinking.

Human perception is very weak anyway - if its too dark humans cannot see anything and if its to light we get blinded by the light.

If you believe in God then man's perception is exactly what God has put into His creations.

We can discern invisible air by it's effects and know for a certainty that H2O exists.

Show the same scientific data for God and then all will know He exists.

If you prefer to remain in the realm of myth and imagination then just believe in talking snakes, and seven headed monsters and other phenomena that exceed the bounds of nature and physics.

To think that God would break the laws that He has put in place is just silly.

Regards
DL

 

[- Qatada -]

Show the same scientific data for God and then all will know He exists.

We affirm and admit that God is outside nature, or the natural world.

If you prefer to remain in the realm of myth and imagination then just believe in talking snakes, and seven headed monsters and other phenomena that exceed the bounds of nature and physics.

These are irrelevant, since we don't believe in God based on fairy tales or fable stories, but we believe in Him due to our understanding of the universe around us, and come to the conclusion that this was set and designed by God in order to achieve what He intended us, and that was to allow life to be contained and sustained within the earth, while revealing the best guidance to them.


So let me give u an example of how physics can lead to the understanding that everything occurred with control and precision, and not mere chance;

1) rate of expansion after big bang

“If the rate of expansion one second after the 'Big Bang' had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million (0,000000000000001%), the universe would have recollapsed. The odds against a universe like ours emerging out of something like the Big Bang are enormous”. (Stephen Hawking, 'A Brief History of Time: From the Big Bang to Black Holes', Page 128).​

2) gravity :

“If gravity (released by the Big Bang) had been stronger or weaker by even one part in ten thousand million million million million million million (0,00000000000000000000000000000000000001%) then life sustaining stars like the sun could not exist. This would most likely make life impossible.” (Brandon Carter, ‘New Physics’ Page 187).​

3) Or how about the physical constants (like speed of light, planck constant). In physics we see these seemingly arbitrary numbers appear, that cannot be accounted for, but are adhered to strictly. Many scientists have expressed their awe for the way these constants caused a form of "fine-tuning". We do not understand where these values come from, yet we do see that if they would have been any different, life in this universe would have become very challenging. (Constants of Physics and Mathematics)

http://www.islamicboard.com/dawah/1...sts-our-foundations-debate-3.html#post1165413


​

These are just a few examples of how physics led to a conclusion that there is a high level of precision and design by an Intelligent being to achieve a universe which would support life, and the probability of this happening through mere chance is really low, one could even argue - an impossibility.


Islam does not require blind faith, since there are certain aspects which do require faith - but these do not contradict and oppose the human logic. Hence it isn't blind faith, but is infact based on logical understanding.

 

[Zafran]

If you believe in God then man's perception is exactly what God has put into His creations.

We can discern invisible air by it's effects and know for a certainty that H2O exists.

Show the same scientific data for God and then all will know He exists.

If you prefer to remain in the realm of myth and imagination then just believe in talking snakes, and seven headed monsters and other phenomena that exceed the bounds of nature and physics.

To think that God would break the laws that He has put in place is just silly.

Regards
DL

I find your emotional out bursts silly and your assumptions narrow - if you want to stay in the anthromorphic realm then your going to run in a lot of problems. Nobody is talking about "imagination" - thats not the bases of belief in God - maybe you need to get out of that first.

Furthermore how do you know scientific data is true???

worst still comming from a person who believes in Telepathy!

 

[Gubbleknucker]

I can't speak for Islam, but I agree with you that Christians in the wealthy West are certainly managing to ignore Jesus' teachings on the poor and wealth quite successfully.
Not just rich churches, but as individuals we do too ... :-[

I am reminded about Jesus' advice to the rich young man to 'sell all his possessions and follow him'.

How many rich Christians are willing to do that?

If you really believed, you would do it by necessity.

It is analogous to a truck headed towards you at high speed. If you do not believe the truck exists, a sane person will not move despite all their fears of the truck's destructive power.
Sitting at this computer and typing, I am confident that I do not have to move out of the way of any truck.


...but if you actually see the truck, you will give your best effort to stay out of it's way.

 

[Great I am not]

We affirm and admit that God is outside nature, or the natural world.

If He is that alien to the man of this natural world then He has no right to ask us to follow Him. Especially if you believe in the genocidal flood of Noah's day.
that God was a traitor to humanity. I will follow him when Jews follow Hitler.

These are irrelevant, since we don't believe in God based on fairy tales or fable stories, but we believe in Him due to our understanding of the universe around us, and come to the conclusion that this was set and designed by God in order to achieve what He intended us, and that was to allow life to be contained and sustained within the earth, while revealing the best guidance to them.

This must mean that you believe that what we all see around us is perfect then? This perfection is here even with Satan and woes?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

That is how thw Bible says it.

So let me give u an example of how physics can lead to the understanding that everything occurred with control and precision, and not mere chance;

1) rate of expansion after big bang

“If the rate of expansion one second after the 'Big Bang' had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million (0,000000000000001%), the universe would have recollapsed. The odds against a universe like ours emerging out of something like the Big Bang are enormous”. (Stephen Hawking, 'A Brief History of Time: From the Big Bang to Black Holes', Page 128).​

2) gravity :

“If gravity (released by the Big Bang) had been stronger or weaker by even one part in ten thousand million million million million million million (0,00000000000000000000000000000000000001%) then life sustaining stars like the sun could not exist. This would most likely make life impossible.” (Brandon Carter, ‘New Physics’ Page 187).​

3) Or how about the physical constants (like speed of light, planck constant). In physics we see these seemingly arbitrary numbers appear, that cannot be accounted for, but are adhered to strictly. Many scientists have expressed their awe for the way these constants caused a form of "fine-tuning". We do not understand where these values come from, yet we do see that if they would have been any different, life in this universe would have become very challenging. (Constants of Physics and Mathematics)

http://www.islamicboard.com/dawah/1...sts-our-foundations-debate-3.html#post1165413


​

These are just a few examples of how physics led to a conclusion that there is a high level of precision and design by an Intelligent being to achieve a universe which would support life, and the probability of this happening through mere chance is really low, one could even argue - an impossibility.


Islam does not require blind faith, since there are certain aspects which do require faith - but these do not contradict and oppose the human logic. Hence it isn't blind faith, but is infact based on logical understanding.

You and I both agree that if anything were different then we would not be here.

This does not mean that it came from an intelligent source. The I D trials show this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAnIoXPLMdo&feature=PlayList&p=DDE24BF64A815FCD&index=0

You have no facts that place God as the initiator of the big bang. You do base your religiosity on faith.

Faith that Constantine's paid writers got it right.

If not faith then please show the facts and not conjecture of what an oral tradition, of belief that was thousands of years old, would know as fact.

Regards
DL

 

[aamirsaab]

If you really believed, you would do it by necessity.

It is analogous to a truck headed towards you at high speed. If you do not believe the truck exists, a sane person will not move despite all their fears of the truck's destructive power.
Sitting at this computer and typing, I am confident that I do not have to move out of the way of any truck.


...but if you actually see the truck, you will give your best effort to stay out of it's way.

Your analogy is actually really good. And supports existence of God because a sane person would be able to HEAR the truck before he/she saw it and thus would move out the way (or at least take standard survival precaution!). Seeing isnt always believing

The deaf, dumb and blind would be those who do not move out of the way because they cannot hear/see/understand the truck. Much like certain non-thiests who despite all the truck driver's honking (and headlights!) - or God's signs - simply do not take heed...

Turned out to be a better analogy than you thought, huh?

 

[- Qatada -]

If He is that alien to the man of this natural world then He has no right to ask us to follow Him. Especially if you believe in the genocidal flood of Noah's day.
that God was a traitor to humanity. I will follow him when Jews follow Hitler.

God knows the universe, because He originated it. The universe follows set patterns because He set out them patterns.

In regard to your issue on Noah's flood, who said i believe that ALL of humanity was flooded? According to Islamic sources, those who rejected Noah, and oppressed him and his followers - they were the ones who were punished. That shows it was Justice on the part of God to get rid of the oppressors.


This is why God tells us in the Qur'an continuously;

[SIZE=+1]And We did not oppress them at all, but they themselves were unjust. [Qur'an 43:76]
[/SIZE]​

You and I both agree that if anything were different then we would not be here.

This does not mean that it came from an intelligent source. The I D trials show this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAnIoXPLMdo&feature=PlayList&p=DDE24BF64A815FCD&index=0

I argue otherwise, and I put forward the argument that its impossible for so much coincidences to occur, which surpass the level of impossibility according to statistics. Hence it can't have been done except through Intelligent Design.

I writ this article showing the stats, aswell as using logic to come to that conclusion;

I invite you to check it out;

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...intelligent-design-why-its-logical-truth.html

You have no facts that place God as the initiator of the big bang. You do base your religiosity on faith.

I affirm i require faith in God [although this is not blind faith, but logical], but you also require faith - as an atheist - in science which cannot explain what was the cause of the Big Bang. Anything which you argue is hypothesis only, hence not fact - so faith based.

So you require faith yourself.

If not faith then please show the facts and not conjecture of what an oral tradition, of belief that was thousands of years old, would know as fact.

Regards
DL

I've mentioned this in another post of mine on the forum on the Qur'an;

No Book has ever been able to achieve what the Qur'an has been able to achieve in its miraculousness; ranging from those who hear it, recite it, memorise it (millions of people memorise it letter for letter and have done so since its time), its influence in ALL spheres of life [whether its on a personal level, to the political sphere, to transactions and fair dealings with others etc.]

It's a book which applies to ALL times, ALL places, making the most cowardly of people to be the bravest, humbling the arrogant, and reviving societies to the greatest of heights which were breaking down into nothingness. It's a Book which calls to truthfulness, and the highest of morals, calling to forgiveness, but also justice. It's the criterion between truth and falsehood, pleasing to the reader, and understandable to the layperson aswell as the intellectual.


No other book can achieve what the Qur'an can, and has achieved.

Here's a sample of its beauty;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oql3as7LJKg​

This is a great sign that the Qur'an is from God, since an illiterate man [Muhammad - Peace be upon him] would not be able to achieve such a feat.

 

[Great I am not]

God knows the universe, because He originated it. The universe follows set patterns because He set out them patterns.

In regard to your issue on Noah's flood, who said i believe that ALL of humanity was flooded? According to Islamic sources, those who rejected Noah, and oppressed him and his followers - they were the ones who were punished. That shows it was Justice on the part of God to get rid of the oppressors.


This is why God tells us in the Qur'an continuously;

[SIZE=+1]And We did not oppress them at all, but they themselves were unjust. [Qur'an 43:76]
[/SIZE]​

I argue otherwise, and I put forward the argument that its impossible for so much coincidences to occur, which surpass the level of impossibility according to statistics. Hence it can't have been done except through Intelligent Design.

I writ this article showing the stats, aswell as using logic to come to that conclusion;

I invite you to check it out;

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...intelligent-design-why-its-logical-truth.html




I affirm i require faith in God [although this is not blind faith, but logical], but you also require faith - as an atheist - in science which cannot explain what was the cause of the Big Bang. Anything which you argue is hypothesis only, hence not fact - so faith based.

So you require faith yourself.





I've mentioned this in another post of mine on the forum on the Qur'an;

No Book has ever been able to achieve what the Qur'an has been able to achieve in its miraculousness; ranging from those who hear it, recite it, memorise it (millions of people memorise it letter for letter and have done so since its time), its influence in ALL spheres of life [whether its on a personal level, to the political sphere, to transactions and fair dealings with others etc.]

It's a book which applies to ALL times, ALL places, making the most cowardly of people to be the bravest, humbling the arrogant, and reviving societies to the greatest of heights which were breaking down into nothingness. It's a Book which calls to truthfulness, and the highest of morals, calling to forgiveness, but also justice. It's the criterion between truth and falsehood, pleasing to the reader, and understandable to the layperson aswell as the intellectual.


No other book can achieve what the Qur'an can, and has achieved.

Here's a sample of its beauty;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oql3as7LJKg​

This is a great sign that the Qur'an is from God, since an illiterate man [Muhammad - Peace be upon him] would not be able to achieve such a feat.

If he did at all.

You idol worship your book the same way a Fundamental Christian does his.

If you believe that God sits in a book then you would be wrong.

I think that those who do are motivated by peer pressure and tradition only.

It is an accident of birth that you follow the Qur'an instead of the Bible.

Regards
DL

 

[Gubbleknucker]

Your analogy is actually really good. And supports existence of God because a sane person would be able to HEAR the truck before he/she saw it and thus would move out the way (or at least take standard survival precaution!). Seeing isnt always believing

The deaf, dumb and blind would be those who do not move out of the way because they cannot hear/see/understand the truck. Much like certain non-thiests who despite all the truck driver's honking (and headlights!) - or God's signs - simply do not take heed...

Turned out to be a better analogy than you thought, huh?

Nah, The only honking I hear is some ancient books. (oh, and the Jehovah's Witnesses used to come to my door until I told them I worshiped Satan. Although I do not, it gave them quite a scare)

Harry Potter is more modern, and soothes my fear of Lord Voldemort far better.

What if it is not a truck at all, but instead a black helicopter? Apparently when I announced my atheism I got one of those, too.
It is yet to arrive in the mail.

 

[aamirsaab]

...
What if it is not a truck at all, but instead a black helicopter? Apparently when I announced my atheism I got one of those, too.
It is yet to arrive in the mail.

Chopper, Truck, whatever. My point still stands; seeing is not always believing (which is what you were arguing last post); you have a multitude of senses amongst reasoning and logic which as a human would and do use to determine the existence of something.

 

[- Qatada -]

If he did at all.

You idol worship your book the same way a Fundamental Christian does his.

If you believe that God sits in a book then you would be wrong.

I think that those who do are motivated by peer pressure and tradition only.

It is an accident of birth that you follow the Qur'an instead of the Bible.

Regards
DL

You make alot of assumptions and ad hominem attacks.


I follow Islam willingly, no-one forced me and I willingly read Qur'an, infact a great deal of people [including certain family members] discourage people from practising Islam because it doesn't suit their desires.

If your atheist, i can just aswell say that you're an atheist because you don't know anything about Islam or the Quran, and you're even ignorant to a high degree of science.


It's sad how you never commented on my other points either.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^This is what happens when people like that don't have anything productive to say...they resort to attacks. What's funny is he repeated it twice lol.

Total insecurity.