Harmony between the Bible and the Qur'an

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When you quit trying to make the Bible say that Jesus is not God, a doctrine of yours that is never actually stated in the Bible, but you present as true when it is only one of your speculative opinions, then we can talk about my use of speculative opinions.

Dear Grace Seeker:

“One of my speculative opinions”??? It is highly unethical and extremely dangerous to promote a speculative opinion as truth, especially when the consequences are eternal.

The messages of the apostles that are recorded in the Biblical Book of Acts repeatedly, consistently, and explicitly show that Jesus and God were two separate and distinct persons. One typical example of many follows.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)

Paul wrote to the church in: Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossi, and Thessalonica. He also wrote to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. Letters were also written by the disciples James, Peter, and John. They all repeatedly mention Jesus and God, and consistently and explicitly describe them as separate persons.

Paul consistently identifies the One God as the Father.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:4–6)
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:6)​

Every one of Paul’s recorded letters open with a greeting: in the name of God the Father, and the Lord Jesus. This seems to indicate that Paul wanted his readers to understand that God is the Father, and Jesus is the Lord. Paul also repeatedly and explicitly identified the Father as the God of Jesus. An example follows.

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. (2 Corinthians 11:31)​

John referred to God as the Father, and the God of Jesus in the book of Revelation.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (Revelation 1:5b–6)​

In the evidence from the Bible, there are no explicit or indirect references to “Jesus our God”, or “our God Jesus”. There are several references to “Son of God” and “Lamb of God”, but not “God the Son” or “God the Lamb” or anything similar. However, there are numerous references to “God the Father”.

Jesus identified His disciples as His brethren after His death, and identified their common Father as God.

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” (John 20:17)​
When Jesus prayed to His Father, He identified Him as the only true God, and Himself as separate from God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3)​
Jesus actually refers to God as “My Father” approximately 50 times in the Gospels, and “the Father” approximately 70 times in the Gospels. Therefore, Jesus appears to have taught His followers that His Father is the One and only God.

Grace Seeker, this is not speculative opinion, but explicit evidence repeatedly stated in the Bible. All of the evidence presented so far in the sister thread, that claimed to support the idea that Jesus is God, has been scrutinised. The assumptions upon which their interpretations were based have been found to be false.

Regards,
Grenville
 
Grenville just as you have a theory I have one too.

As I pointed out on another thread Jesus did not stop the few that worshiped him. They understood Jesus to be of the same substance as the Father and worthy of worship.

Man has a very long history of worshipping idols, mutiple gods and things of this world. Jesus - his physical human form was of this world. It is not GOD's human form that is to be worshipped, but the Spirit that is the One True GOD.
 
Grenville just as you have a theory I have one too.

As I pointed out on another thread Jesus did not stop the few that worshiped him. They understood Jesus to be of the same substance as the Father and worthy of worship.

Man has a very long history of worshipping idols, mutiple gods and things of this world. Jesus - his physical human form was of this world. It is not GOD's human form that is to be worshipped, but the Spirit that is the One True GOD.

Dear Follower:

Have you not read the posts on this page that deal with worship? Follower, I have already explained that while juveniles may have a valid excuse of being misled by their teachers, responsible adults should investigate what they choose to believe. However, it is incumbent upon teachers or persons promoting an idea as Truth, to rigorously examine what they are teaching.

You are fully aware that Jesus was highly critical of the religious leaders of His day who mislead people into following their religious traditions rather than what was explicitly stated in the Scriptures. So important was this issue of teaching what is explicitly stated, that Jesus indicated that it would be better for persons misleading others to be drowned with a mill stone tied around their neck.

You are boldly promoting your religious traditions which I have shown to be unsupported by the scriptures. I hope, for your sake, that you know what you are doing. Recall Jesus’ words again.

Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? (Matthew 23:32)​

Regards,
Grenville
 
Grace Seeker, this is not speculative opinion, but explicit evidence repeatedly stated in the Bible. All of the evidence presented so far in the sister thread, that claimed to support the idea that Jesus is God, has been scrutinised. The assumptions upon which their interpretations were based have been found to be false.

Regards,
Grenville
Apparently you don't know the meaning of the word "explicit". For it is NOT explicit that Jesus is not God in what you present, it is something which you are inferring. And I'm with Follower in inferring from the previously mentioned passages regarding worship, those that you dismiss as not being about worship at all, that Jesus was in fact worshipped and accepted this worship of himself during his earthly life. I've read you counter-thesis and find it unconvincing.
 
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LOL!! Grenville - You have to date not let us in on which denomination of Christianity you follow. If you did it would be much easier to understand what you truly believe.

We do agree on many things one being that Jesus is GOD's Word made flesh.

What kind of being do you believe Jesus to be? Human, spirit or both?
 
If the bible portrays Jesus as anything other than a prophet/messenger and slave of Allah then there is no harmony. Simple. No need of a 26 page thread.

Quran says in surah Maryam
He (Jesus) said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet(19:30)
 
If the bible portrays Jesus as anything other than a prophet/messenger and slave of Allah then there is no harmony. Simple. No need of a 26 page thread.

Quran says in surah Maryam
He (Jesus) said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet(19:30)

Hi Shakoor:

Both the Bible and the Qur'an describe Jesus as a prophet, and much more than a prophet.

Bible: The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us." Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." (John 4:25–26)

Qur’an: When the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). (3:45)​
Regards,
Grenville
 
salaam yes and that has many meanings depending on who you ask - But the messiah is still a prophet and messenger of God in the Quran.

Hi Zafran:

You have correctly identified the problem.

"Depending on who you ask"

This approach has led to Christian and Muslim religious leaders concluding that irreconcilable differences exist between the Bible and the Qur'an, when, for centuries, neither of them would bother to read the other's book.

Zaphran. There is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur'an. This harmony is achieved without compromising any teaching or damaging the integrity of any verse in either the Bible or the Qur'an. The evidence is clearly presented in Brothers Kept Apart.

Regards,
Grenville
 
In the quran the descriptions of Jesus, He is unique above all.

Wasn't this already refuted?

1. Spirit of God when used in relation to Jesus pbuh in the Quran is also used for John the Baptist.
2. Muhammad pbuh is regarded as the seal of the Prophets and the only one with all the features of the other prophets in one package
3. Only Muhammad pbuh will be able to ask Allah and intercede for Muslims and believers on Judgment Day.

Anything I missed or will you continue to inject Christian fancies into Islam?


BTW Grenville, are you the author of that Brothers Kept Apart book or do you just know it well?
 
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Okay yes Isa (as) was a Slave of Allah, a prophet, and messiah. He is NO way related to Allah. He is NO way a partner to Allah. He is not a part of a trinity. Christians believe there is a son, father, and spirit and Jesus is the son. Well, the Quran totally 100% rejects this idea. He is not anything above other prophets. He is an amazing prophet, but nothing more.
 
Okay yes Isa (as) was a Slave of Allah, a prophet, and messiah. He is NO way related to Allah. He is NO way a partner to Allah. He is not a part of a trinity. Christians believe there is a son, father, and spirit and Jesus is the son. Well, the Quran totally 100% rejects this idea. He is not anything above other prophets. He is an amazing prophet, but nothing more.

Hi Shakoor:

If you will read this thread from the beginning, then you will realize that these issues have been properly addressed.

Regards,
Grenville
 
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Wasn't this already refuted?

1. Spirit of God when used in relation to Jesus pbuh in the Quran is also used for John the Baptist.
2. Muhammad pbuh is regarded as the seal of the Prophets and the only one with all the features of the other prophets in one package
3. Only Muhammad pbuh will be able to ask Allah and intercede for Muslims and believers on Judgment Day.
OK AKK:

Let me address your points 2 and 3 for now.

2) The Bible teaches that many more Prophets will come after Jesus, but that Jesus is the only Messiah. Islamic religious tradition teaches that Mohammed is the final prophet. Can you provide Qur'anic evidence for this claim?

3) Please provide support from the Qur'an for the Islamic religious tradition that "Only Muhammad pbuh will be able to ask Allah and intercede for Muslims and believers on Judgment Day."?

Regards,
Grenville
 
Surah Al-Ahzab-
Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things. (Verse 40)
 
Wasn't this already refuted?

1. Spirit of God when used in relation to Jesus pbuh in the Quran is also used for John the Baptist.
2. Muhammad pbuh is regarded as the seal of the Prophets and the only one with all the features of the other prophets in one package
3. Only Muhammad pbuh will be able to ask Allah and intercede for Muslims and believers on Judgment Day.

Anything I missed or will you continue to inject Christian fancies into Islam?

BTW Grenville, are you the author of that Brothers Kept Apart book or do you just know it well?

Be interested to here what this list of 'features' is you mention in point 2?
 
Wasn't this already refuted?

1. Spirit of God when used in relation to Jesus pbuh in the Quran is also used for John the Baptist.
2. Muhammad pbuh is regarded as the seal of the Prophets and the only one with all the features of the other prophets in one package
3. Only Muhammad pbuh will be able to ask Allah and intercede for Muslims and believers on Judgment Day.

Anything I missed or will you continue to inject Christian fancies into Islam?

BTW Grenville, are you the author of that Brothers Kept Apart book or do you just know it well?

On your point 3 I have never heard that before and Al-Baqara 2:48 says "And guard yourselves against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be received from it, nor will they be helped.

Can you explain therefore a little more?
 

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