Subhanallah how a christian reveals themselves to be false!

[Azad]

While i was reading a topic called "isthe bible wrong".

Around page 5 a member called Jenny (who is a christian) said something that caught my attention.
I dont know if anyone mentioned this before but heres what she said:

"It would be amusing to say,that I`m responsible for something what my ancestor from 16-th century has done."

She says this and shes a christian lol

What im trying to say is that even a Christian like herself, believe that its unfair if someone is blamed for the past mistakes of her earlier ancestor.

YET! All christian believe that they are being punished for a sin that Adam (PBUH) has done!

This is proof that some Christian dont even agree with their own religion!

May Allah protect us from being disbelievers and hypocrytes inshallah.

 

[Basit]

Re: Suphanallah how a christian reveals themselves to be false!

Al-salam Alaykum,

It really is amusing, as what she had said. Maybe thats what she was taught or maybe she is just one stray sheep from her flock? But i've learned one of their belief regarding this matter is that when they are born, they inherit the sins of their ancestor but it is erased upon baptism into christianity. But then in their scripture, in genesis it says there that God himself told Noah that the brethen and brethen of his younger son, who made fun of him when Noah was naked drunk, shall be punished. Now, they are nullifying this punishment of God by erasing it through baptism(as what they believe nowadays to be the one of the purpose of baptism).

I dont know much about their beliefs but i heard this is one of christian religious beliefs.

Salam!

 

[Trumble]

Re: Suphanallah how a christian reveals themselves to be false!

YET! All christian believe that they are being punished for a sin that Adam (PBUH) has done!

No, they don't all believe that. A great many do not, including Jenny, probably.

 

[gmcbroom]

Re: Suphanallah how a christian reveals themselves to be false!

Poor catechesis.

 

[Tyrion]

Did you really just make a thread to single out one Christian member who might have said something wrong?

 

[glo]

YET! All christian believe that they are being punished for a sin that Adam (PBUH) has done!

I think you are mistaken, or at least you misunderstand the concept of 'being punished for the sins Adam has done'.

We are not being punished for the sins Adam or anybody else committed.
Instead Christians believe that human beings have inherited from Adam a tendency to do wrong and to be disobedient to God. Consequently Christians also believe that it is humanly impossible to be 'good enough by God's standards'. We can try as hard as we like, but we will always fall and fail and err - either in words, thought or deed.

I am sure that there has never been a single day in my life, when I have not done wrong in some way. No matter how hard I try!

That's why Christians believe that we cannot rely on our own strength, and that we need God's grace and mercy for our salvation.

If you are interested in further reading about the concept of Original Sin, I found these webpages for you:
http://carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/are-we-punished-adams-sin
http://www.gotquestions.org/parents-sin.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/originalsin_1.shtml

I have certainly found it interesting to read up on the subject and to gain a better insight into the differences in understanding of original sin.
I hope you have found it interesting too. I always find it helpful to try and understand the beliefs of others better.

Salaam

P.S. I just noticed how old this thread is. I doubt that the OP is still around to read it ...

Brother gmcbroom, what are your own thoughts on original sin?

 

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Original sin, what's with faiths and someone else sacrificing themselves for everyone else... Man, wish that would work in court.

 

[Hiroshi]

While i was reading a topic called "isthe bible wrong".

Around page 5 a member called Jenny (who is a christian) said something that caught my attention.
I dont know if anyone mentioned this before but heres what she said:

"It would be amusing to say,that I`m responsible for something what my ancestor from 16-th century has done."

She says this and shes a christian lol

What im trying to say is that even a Christian like herself, believe that its unfair if someone is blamed for the past mistakes of her earlier ancestor.

YET! All christian believe that they are being punished for a sin that Adam (PBUH) has done!

This is proof that some Christian dont even agree with their own religion!

May Allah protect us from being disbelievers and hypocrytes inshallah.

We are not being punished for Adam's sin. But we are suffering because of what he did. You could liken the situation to that of a mother who smokes or drinks alcohol while pregnant resulting in harm to her unborn child. The child did not do the bad things but suffers nevertheless.

 

[gmcbroom]

Hiroshi that is an excellent analogy. I can go one further and say that because of the ancestral sin of Adam, death entered the world. We're all bound by it regardless of ones station or wealth. Whether your a pagan, orthodox jew, christen, muslim, buddist, or atheist. All men die.

 

[IAmZamzam]

We are not being punished for Adam's sin. But we are suffering because of what he did. You could liken the situation to that of a mother who smokes or drinks alcohol while pregnant resulting in harm to her unborn child. The child did not do the bad things but suffers nevertheless.

The difference being that the only reason such people--or anyone--gets punished for what other people did in this world is that the people who are doing it to them (like the mother in your analogy) are not being fair, whereas God is always fair and therefore would never make anyone suffer for what another person did. According to you God is like a gym teacher who grades said child lower for inevitably performing worse than par at gym class due to his birth defects, unless someone is willing to swap their own A with his F (like that's fair).

 

[Perseveranze]

Hiroshi that is an excellent analogy. I can go one further and say that because of the ancestral sin of Adam, death entered the world. We're all bound by it regardless of ones station or wealth. Whether your a pagan, orthodox jew, christen, muslim, buddist, or atheist. All men die.

Peace,

What's the point of there being Satan/Jin when everyone is already naturally born evil or "with sin". You also forget that man isn't perfect, we make mistakes, are you trying to say that if we didn't "inherit" Adam(pbuh)'s sin, we would all be perfect?

 

[gmcbroom]

Yahya Sulaiman,
My friend God didn't do it to us Adam and Eve did when they partook of the forbidden fruit. As for removing original sin that is done through baptism.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Connect the dots, will you?

1. Because of Adam and Eve, we are now incapable of being as morally perfect as God requires.
2. Because of this lack of perfection we are d-a-m-nable (minus a total travesty of justice, reason, and necessity like someone volunteering to be punished for us instead, never mind that justice means either punishing or simply forgiving the actual guilty party and not an innocent one).
3. Therefore, we are d-a-m-n-able because of Adam and Eve, and not because of anything that is truly and initially our own fault.

I can't quite decide whether the doctrinal tangle of illogicality, implausibility, and immorality called Christian doctrine is the way it is due to being too poorly thought out or too thoroughly thought out.

I repeat:

According to you God is like a gym teacher who grades said child lower for inevitably performing worse than par at gym class due to his birth defects [caused by his mother's sinful habits], unless someone is willing to swap their own A with his F (like that's fair).

 

[Predator]

Yahya Sulaiman,
My friend God didn't do it to us Adam and Eve did when they partook of the forbidden fruit. As for removing original sin that is done through baptism.

Why did your God wait for over 6000 years after creating Adam to impregnate Mary and be born as Jesus and eat your sins ? Why didnt he immediately impregnate Eve and ""die for the sins of mankind ? What happens to all those who never heard of your sin-eating God ?

1) Why is the Christian god Unjust? (He killed an innocent sinless person for guilty sinful people).
2) Why can't the Christian god forgive people without having to kill an innocent man?
3) Why is the Christian god so hateful? (He killed his own son, let him be killed).
4) Why is the Christian god (i.e. Jesus) suicidal? (He killed himself).
5) If Jesus committed suicide doesn't that make him sinful and not sinless?
6) Why is Jesus the most sinful of all? (He took upon everyone's sins).
7) Why can't Jesus be sinful?
8) How can he not be capable of being sinful or if he was sinful can't take away his own sins, yet he can take away other people's sins?
9) Who was taken care of creation if the Christian god was dead for 3 days?
10) If Christians want Jesus to die so badly for their sins, doesn't that mean they are selfish and want him to suffer instead of them?

 

[gmcbroom]

Yahya Sulaiman,
Sounds like your having with the concept of Original Sin when it's effects are all to apparent even today. For Christians Baptism removes Original Sin thus restoring us. It helps bridge the gap so we can once again reach God.

 

[GuestFellow]

What im trying to say is that even a Christian like herself, believe that its unfair if someone is blamed for the past mistakes of her earlier ancestor.

YET! All christian believe that they are being punished for a sin that Adam (PBUH) has done!

This is proof that some Christian dont even agree with their own religion!

May Allah protect us from being disbelievers and hypocrytes inshallah.

I think your misunderstood.

Read this.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Yahya Sulaiman,
Sounds like your having with the concept of Original Sin when it's effects are all to apparent even today. For Christians Baptism removes Original Sin thus restoring us. It helps bridge the gap so we can once again reach God.

Actually my problem is with the idea of God not being willing to simply forgive people and instead demanding blood be spilled instead, even if it's innocent blood, but the concept of original sin does seem part and parcel. You haven't really addressed anything I've said, by the way, you're just brushing it all off.

 

[gmcbroom]

Yahya Sulaiman,
I know it's difficult for you to understand. That is no fault of your own. It is a faith based issue. This is a Christian belief. As a Muslim it's not expected for you to understand or even accept it. Just know that Christians do.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

We are not being punished for the sins Adam or anybody else committed.

hi glo ; I read a convert story long ago . A Christian lady lost her newborn baby and she was told baby will be in hell as died before baptism. It means babies are sinners. It led her to became frustrated about her religion and studied Islam.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Yahya Sulaiman,
I know it's difficult for you to understand. That is no fault of your own. It is a faith based issue. This is a Christian belief. As a Muslim it's not expected for you to understand or even accept it. Just know that Christians do.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

Are you under the impression that I know nothing about Christianity? That I'm some hapless outsider who was raised Muslim and never really exposed to Christianity?