Eleven-year-old girl gives birth in Bulgaria

[aamirsaab]

Erm, link to the article isn't working. Could the OP fix it please?

 

[Uthman]

Erm, link to the article isn't working. Could the OP fix it please?

I think the article has been removed from the website or something. I googled it and it showed me the same link but when I clicked on it, the article wasn't there.

 

[S_87]

I don't think this is about gender, it is about age. The girl is 11. I don't think she is capable of deciding who to marry or who to have sexual relations with. The same would be true for an 11 year old boy.

She is only being highlighted because she fell pregnant but there are many teenagers in the west who are involved in sexual relations as young as 11!

I never knew 11 year olds were mature enough to give birth.

as soon as a girl starts menstruating, although she may not be fully grown she is physically able to get pregnant and give birth. menstruation starts as young as 9...

 

[Ansariyah]

I'm not shocked...

 

[Asiyah3]

Here in Finland you see young girls aged 11-13 on streets with alcohol-bottles and many of them have sex at that age. On forums you see young girls/boys asking about oralsex and even worse. You don't want to know in detail they're conversations .

I read a conversation where the people were talking about whether alcohol should be given to youngsters. Most of them encouraged this to superidiculous reasons such as "They will learn to drink moderately" etc.. I just say Al-hamdulillah for the guidance of Islam! This conversation reminded me so much of the hadith of the prophet (SAAS) about the minor signs of the Hour that I almost cried for some reason: A slave girl will give birth to it's master. If you were to read it, you seriously would have felt as if the parents were the slaves. Nowadays the minor signs are so general.

I just say Al-hamdulillah for the guidance of Islam!

What makes me laugh even more is that for example if a youngster would get married outside western countries to a guy they would make it such a big deal. But if it was so that if a girl gets drunk with her friend on weekends then she spends the night with a guy- then it's totally alright.

In addition if a woman marries some-one without having a relationship with the man, then they would grind about it enough. BUT if a woman goes to a bar and spends the night with a stranger doing all sorts of things then "Oh, ok"

Sorry if my post got a bit over the topic

 

[sister herb]

Here in Finland you see young girls aged 11-13 on streets with alcohol-bottles and many of them have sex at that age.

Salam siskolle Suomesta.

Yes this is right; in here young girls dress and make up for looking older they are. They believe that drinking alcohol and having sex-partnes make them adults.

I think this 11-year-old in this new made same - as hers husband thinked that she is older one.

imsad poor kid anyways

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Benefits and toy for the girl and jail for the boy?

why are women ALWAYS the victim?
many girls in the uk are involved in sexual relations from as young as 12. ok the guy maybe under 16 but does it make the girls victimless and this girl a victim?

justice, eh? makes you wonder doesn't it.

Oh, well as long as girl of eleven gave her consent to an older man to have sex with her, then that's fine!

good, agreed.
he would have been convicted of rape/sexual abuse. children arent stupid and know very well when someone is sexually abusing them. so, again your point hold no weigh.

Let's all start to do that and see how society turns out!

lets indeed.
i can think of alot worse thing that aren't illegal and have caused "rifts" in society eg adultery/fornication, as well as adoption hence alot of the time children being deprived of the knowledge of who their lineage lies with

A peadophile, by definition, is an adult attracted to children.

Medically, it is actually defined as an adult who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. So if this girl was prepubescent, then this would be paedophilia. Otherwise, it isn't.

The girl was a child.

your not a child when you reach the age of puberty. for the love of god, go learn some basic human anatomy and physiology.

The man was an adult.

so was she.

He had sex with her.

no sh*t Sherlock.

Are you honestly suggesting that just because she gave her consent it's fine?

yes. consent is very important in such relationships for them to be considered legal.

Giving her consent still makes it peadophilia, it just doesn't make it rape.

Medically, it is actually defined as an adult who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. So if this girl was prepubescent, then this would be paedophilia. Otherwise, it isn't.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

why is this type of threads approved here i dont understand can u guys find something else instead of these types of posts?

i personally posted it as i thought someone else could come along and use it as a refutation.

'It's normal for our girls to have babies young. It's our tradition.

that's interesting *makes a mental note to look up marriage/age of giving birth traditions in Bulgaria* :exhausted

see? good refutation potential :-[

 

[titus]

your not a child when you reach the age of puberty

Mentally and socially puberty has little to do with childhood. Some girls begin having periods before kindergarten, but I don't anyone that would say are not a child.

Surely you are not claiming that a 9 year old girl, or even an 11 year old girl should be considered an adult?

I don't know any 11 year old girls that are mature enough to be able to make a rational decision about sex, much less having children.

 

[S_87]

Mentally and socially puberty has little to do with childhood. Some girls begin having periods before kindergarten, but I don't anyone that would say are not a child.

Surely you are not claiming that a 9 year old girl, or even an 11 year old girl should be considered an adult?

I don't know any 11 year old girls that are mature enough to be able to make a rational decision about sex, much less having children.

stop with the double stadards, put this story aside and LOOK at the free west where girls as young as this 11 year old are ALREADY having sex..sure they might not get pregnant but they are still involved in full sexual activity.

lets address that for a minute. why arent those girls being treated for 'rape' and the guys they are sleeping with done in for illegal sex? why are those who do get pregnant allowed to keep their children if they arent mature enough?

 

[Trumble]

stop with the double stadards, put this story aside and LOOK at the free west where girls as young as this 11 year old are ALREADY having sex..sure they might not get pregnant but they are still involved in full sexual activity.

There are no 'double standards'. No doubt a tiny minority are sexually active at that age, and historically always have been, but to suggest that is any sort of norm is completely without foundation. Such sexual activity is, in any event, illegal.

lets address that for a minute. why arent those girls being treated for 'rape' and the guys they are sleeping with done in for illegal sex?

They are treated for rape if they have been raped, and do receive appropriate counselling even if consent was given. The 'guys' involved are prosecuted, although obviously their own age is taken into account.

why are those who do get pregnant allowed to keep their children if they arent mature enough?

Because social services are satisfied that a suitable support 'network' is in place, usually primarily in the form of the baby's grandparents. In the absence of that, the child would be taken into care.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Mentally and socially puberty has little to do with childhood.

this argument is not based on mental and social factors, but on physical factors.

Some girls begin having periods before kindergarten, but I don't anyone that would say are not a child.

when a child (boy or girl) shows signs of puberty before the average/expected age (if i remember correctly, its about 8-12 in girls and 9-13 in boys) there is considered to be an underlying medical problem (eg a tumor in the brain) so the child is not considered to have reached puberty.

Surely you are not claiming that a 9 year old girl, or even an 11 year old girl should be considered an adult?

physically, yes. and guess what? so are medical professionals.

however,

Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azîz ibn Ahmad Ad-Durayhim:

As for the possible negative consequences of a man of such a mature age marrying such a young girl, it is patently obvious. The discrepancies in their capabilities, both physically and mentally, could bring about serious differences between the two of them that could lead to the failure of the marriage. This is something that has been seen and is well understood.

Therefore, I would not recommend such a marriage nor would I encourage it.

Moreover, with respect to what we have said about the legal validity of such a marriage, that refers to the validity of the contract itself. As for the effects of the marriage - such as privacy, intimacy and sexual relations - that is another matter entirely. Such things are permitted only if the girl is able to handle such a relationship without any harm whatsoever coming to. Otherwise, it is prohibited. This is because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "There shall be no harm nor the causing of harm."

It can also be seen in the very conduct of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He did not consummate his marriage with 'A’ishah for a number of years on account of her young age.

And from the fatwâ committee supervised by Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahhâb At-Turayrî we note:

The lawfulness of consummating a marriage at such an age is contingent on the maturity of the girl and that no harm would come to her.

So if any harm would come from it, then it is unlawful i.e. harâm.


Q: So why didn't Islam prohibit such practices that are harmful?

Actually, it did. It would be impossible for Islam to have an explicit prohibition on every dangerous behavior from jumping off a scyscraper to smoking, so Islam has provided a single broad injunction to cover all instances of harm:

The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said,

لا ضرر ولا ضر
"There is to be no harming, nor reciprocating of harm." (Musnad Ahmad, authenticated by Al-Albânî)

And Allah knows best.

I don't know any 11 year old girls that are mature enough to be able to make a rational decision about sex, much less having children.

i dont know many either...i dont know any at all actually. but then again, it takes tu-tu tango, doesn't it?

 

[Pomak]

For the record, Gypsie=/=Bulgarians.

Generally speaking they are poor so they do have kids young.

 

[جوري]

I don't think this is about gender, it is about age. The girl is 11. I don't think she is capable of deciding who to marry or who to have sexual relations with. The same would be true for an 11 year old boy.

if they make the decision to have sex, I think they should be capable of making the decision to be married?.. I don't agree at all with 11 year olds getting married (in this day and age) but I disagree even more with an 11 year old having sex, or having BCP passed to them in school:

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=140910

Now, which is the lesser evil in your mind? getting married or having sex?
marriage comes with a contract, some expectations of responsibility and financial security..
what does sex come with? STD's, dumping hormones with the potential of very harmful side effects down the line, B astard children and the abasement of the family unit?

I think the choice is rather obvious.. if you are going to have expectations and marriage age and laws, then you should by the same token have the same laws about having sex..

This is really one of the reasons one can't wrap their mind around the hypocrisy and double standards of westerners.. this is freedom, that is freedom, here kids have a bunch of free condoms on the house, but that, well that is pedophilia and this is rape.

all the best

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

A 12-year-old girl who fell pregnant to her 15-year-old live-in boyfriend has given birth to a baby boy.

Earlier this year, the NSW Department of Community Services (DoCS) was forced to apologise when it was revealed the girl’s father had warned them his daughter was sleeping with her boyfriend at her mother’s house.

The girl’s father has told Woman’s Day magazine that he didn’t think his daughter, now 12, was up to the task of being a mother.

“She is only a baby herself and now she’s got a baby,” he told the Woman’s Day on sale on Monday.

“She has no maternal instincts at all.”

Minister for Community Services Linda Burney in June admitted the girl’s case had been overlooked by a “stretched” DoCS.

Source......

 

[titus]

physically, yes. and guess what? so are medical professionals.

You cannot equate physical maturity with mental maturity. For example, just because one ten year old boy has hair under his armpits does not mean that he is more mature than another that doesn't. Physical and mental maturity have nothing to do with each. An eleven year old, pubescent or not, is simply not going to be mature enough to make a well thought out decision about sex or completely understand its consequences.

marriage comes with a contract, some expectations of responsibility and financial security..

Marriage is a lifelong commitment with no guarantees of financial security at all. It is certainly a decision that no eleven year old I have ever met could truly comprehend.

Why is the male getting punished only?

Because the male was old enough to know better. The female was still a child.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

You cannot equate physical maturity with mental maturity. For example, just because one ten year old boy has hair under his armpits does not mean that he is more mature than another that doesn't. Physical and mental maturity have nothing to do with each. An eleven year old, pubescent or not, is simply not going to be mature enough to make a well thought out decision about sex or completely understand its consequences.

i am well aware.
what i was getting at is that islamophobics are against aesha's (radhiallahu anha's) marriage because she was physically a child (so they say) and a child cant bear the physical capability of pregnancy and child-birth. but medical evidence as well as reality has indicated otherwise.

i dont agree with young people nowadays getting married this early, but just becuase an 11 yr old girl these days cant handle it, where is the evidence to suggest that a girl 1400 yrs back couldn't? who are we to "probe" like this into other people marriages!? there is evidence to suggest that men also got married at a young age (11) 1400 years ago as-well....you people really need to take into account the upbringing one may have when dealing with such matters. i bet these "children" would be fit parents if education about their physical cahnges, etc was coupled with the education on what to do if they became mothers and fathers, unexpectedly....i would really be interested in seeing the outcome of something like that.

there seems to be a strange trend in the west where children learn about such relationships etc at such a young age (eg through tv) and are led to believe that these relationships, etc are ok (becuase apparently they are still children) and yet the consequences of such are hardly ever taken into account, not to mention they get laughed at by their elders with a "kids these days" or "geez, they start early these days ;D" im failing to see how that is consistent?

Marriage is a lifelong commitment with no guarantees of financial security at all.

yes there is. well, islamically, anyway. ok, not completely as no-one knows what is going to happen, but at the very least the husband is obliged and is financially responsible for his wife and children.

why do tax payers have to pay for the irresponsibility of others, when the "others" evidently couldn't care less?

 

[جوري]

Marriage is a lifelong commitment with no guarantees of financial security at all. It is certainly a decision that no eleven year old I have ever met could truly comprehend..

Indeed and so does sex, it has long term commitments, when you contract Hep C, or B or chlamydia or Gonorrhea or syphilis, or Trichomonas vaginalis or Condyloma acuminata or Gardnerella vaginalis or AIDS etc. or are working on the prevention end by taking BCP and dump hormones into your body at a young age and end up with Dysmenorrhea, Ovarian cysts, associations with mutations in the BRCA1 or BRCA2 gene, Endometrial cancer, and later Postmenopausal hip fracture, plus psychosocial ramifications, or end up with a baby.. it is all yours to keep for the long haul!

once you've figured out how to circumvent why sex is socially acceptable and falls under the heading of freedom but marriage isn't can you come with said bravado and explain to me why 11 year olds don't truly comprehend the ensues of marriage but do when having sex (protected or not)!


As stated above in this day and age I don't agree with 11 year old marrying, but I don't agree with them having sex either.. if they are going to do one, at least do it properly, to understand the weightiness of this commitment.. a baby is theirs to keep just like an STD, marriage means being responsible for yourself and the people you are bedding and the outcome of that, emancipated.. what does sex by itself mean?


I don't really need sophistical and philosophical yet insufficiently thought words of wisdom when they offer no true solution..
They are both equally responsible here, girls mature mentally faster than boys, so both of them are pretty much compatible!

all the best

 

[titus]

nce you've figured out how to circumvent why sex is socially acceptable and falls under the heading of freedom but marriage isn't can you come with said bravado and explain to me why 11 year olds don't truly comprehend the ensues of marriage but do when having sex (protected or not)!

I think you are making things up to argue about. Has anyone here said that marriage is socially unacceptable?

I think some people have said that an 11 year old getting married should be unacceptable as she is too young to know the consequences. I believe this is also too young to be having sex.

I am also talking current day. I don't care about what happened 1400 years ago. You are the one bringing that baggage into this discussion, not me.

As stated above in this day and age I don't agree with 11 year old marrying, but I don't agree with them having sex either.

Then we agree.

They are both equally responsible here, girls mature mentally faster than boys, so both of them are pretty much compatible!

So you are saying that a 19 year old boy is as mature, mentally, as an 11 year old girl? I strongly disagree. (and I suppose you meant comparable, not compatible?)

 

[جوري]

I think you are making things up to argue about. Has anyone here said that marriage is socially unacceptable?

Oh, I don't know something about her 19 year old husband being thrown in jail!

I think some people have said that an 11 year old getting married should be unacceptable as she is too young to know the consequences. I believe this is also too young to be having sex.

The decision is really hers to make, you haven't sat down with her to determine her level of maturity-- question is why wait until she has an infant to throw the father in jail? shouldn't in retrospect someone have thought of this before marrying them off?

I am also talking current day. I don't care about what happened 1400 years ago. You are the one bringing that baggage into this discussion, not me.

I am not bringing any baggage into the discussion, in fact I'd go so far and say you were looking for some kind of reaction given my original response was to a comment made by Kading and not your person!

Then we agree.

Then perhaps you should go out there and advocate for one as much as the other so you don't come across like a complete hypocrite?

So you are saying that a 19 year old boy is as mature, mentally, as an 11 year old girl? I strongly disagree. (and I suppose you meant comparable, not compatible?)

No I meant compatible as in (exist in harmonious or agreeable combination).. having things in common, same level of maturity!


if I meant comparable I'd have so written!

all the best