Eleven-year-old girl gives birth in Bulgaria

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Oh, I don't know something about her 19 year old husband being thrown in jail!

The father is in jail for sex with a minor, not marriage with a minor.
The decision is really hers to make, you haven't sat down with her to determine her level of maturity--

She is 11 years old. She is not mature nor knowledgeable enough to make that decision.

hen perhaps you should go out there and advocate for one as much as the other so you don't come across like a complete hypocrite?

Amazing. You always turn a discussion into an insult-fest. You have way too much anger inside you.

having things in common, same level of maturity!

19 year olds should not be dating 11 year olds. They have little in common and are miles apart in maturity.
 
The father is in jail for sex with a minor, not marriage with a minor.

OH-IC.. I was under the impression that folks have sex when they get married?


She is 11 years old. She is not mature nor knowledgeable enough to make that decision.
Says who?


Amazing. You always turn a discussion into an insult-fest. You have way too much anger inside you.
Rather I point out the obvious!



19 year olds should not be dating 11 year olds. They have little in common and are miles apart in maturity.
ah, but they were not dating, they were married, and again, you have no insight as to whether or not they have the same level of maturity or commonalities.. you go by some imaginary cut off line.. one that determines that marriage is a no no but sexual intercourse is acceptable, as evidenced by BCP's being handed to 11 year olds in middle school.. what can we call that other than what it is?

all the best
 
OH-IC.. I was under the impression that folks have sex when they get married?

I am simply stating a fact. The man is in jail for having sex with an 11 year old. Nothing has been mentioned about his being in jail having anything whatsoever to do with their marriage.

ah, but they were not dating, they were married

She gave birth on their wedding day. Call it dating, or call it just having sex, but this child was not the result of a marriage, the marriage was the result of a child.

you have no insight as to whether or not they have the same level of maturity or commonalities

So are you arguing for a 19 year old man having sex with an 11 year old girl or are you against it? Are you arguing that 11 year old girls should be allowed to marry 19 year old men or not? You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth here, yet call me the hypocrite.

Make up your mind.
 
I am simply stating a fact. The man is in jail for having sex with an 11 year old. Nothing has been mentioned about his being in jail having anything whatsoever to do with their marriage.

The expectations is people will have sex if they have a relationship (to which by the way) she was an active partner by withholding her age from him-- and which they both wanted a life long commitment!



She gave birth on their wedding day. Call it dating, or call it just having sex, but this child was not the result of a marriage, the marriage was the result of a child.
What is your point? see paragraph one.. if there was no baby, and they'd gotten married (period) would he still be facing up charges? people don't know what others do in their bedroom, she certainly didn't complain, and they were making it official!



So are you arguing for a 19 year old man having sex with an 11 year old girl or are you against it? Are you arguing that 11 year old girls should be allowed to marry 19 year old men or not? You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth here, yet call me the hypocrite.

Make up your mind.
I think it is obvious what I am arguing for.. there is no changing the fact of the matter.. it has happened and they tried to rectify their mistake by having a family unit!.. what is the point to throw perhaps the only source of income for this new infant in jail because some morons decided she is an idiot and he is a pedophile?

1- she lies about her age
2- she 'fancied' him according to her
3- Her grandmother stated 'we marry young'
4- he owned up to it and was ready for commitment in spite of being fearful and not knowing her true age!
5- they have a child together..

so, now who the hell are you or some state law to decide she is immature and he is a rapist?

was that too difficult for you to understand? I hope it is clear now!

all the best
 
A peadophile, by definition, is an adult attracted to children. The girl was a child. The man was an adult. He had sex with her. Are you honestly suggesting that just because she gave her consent it's fine? Giving her consent still makes it peadophilia, it just doesn't make it rape.
and by whose's standards she is a child. For God's sake she gave birth to a baby and you are calling her a child. She is a woman biologically! Saying she is young aged and mentally not mature is another thing but calling her a child and thus labeling her boyfriend pedophile, come on!

the interesting thing about these events is that the girls are labeled as 'victim', 'immature', 'taken advantage of' but the boys are thrown into jails for crime even though they both consented to go ahead with it. You will not see anyone speaking about their illegal sex (before marriage) but everyone will come around pitying the girl, sympathizing her, and presenting her as an immature victim even though her actions prove many of these synthesizers wrong. amazing society, their laws, morals and principles!
 
i dont agree with young people nowadays getting married this early

then
As stated above in this day and age I don't agree with 11 year old marrying

Then

I think it is obvious what I am arguing for.. there is no changing the fact of the matter.. it has happened and they tried to rectify their mistake by having a family unit!

So you are against them marrying, except that you feel it is fine since they had sex already and she was pregnant? Or it's fine because her grandmother approves? Or it's fine because she has a crush on him? It's fine because the 19 year old agreed to marry her?

Please clarify when you think it is fine for an 11 year old to get married, even though you have stated twice that you are against 11 years getting married.

Then please clarify for us what criteria you think there should be for putting pedophiles in jail. Tell me what criteria you would use that would allow a 19 year old man to have sex with an 11 year old with no penalty.

Do you think that I should be allowed to have sex with an 11 year old girl with no penalty? How about a 10 year old? 8?
 
then


Then

is it that you are unable or unwilling to understand?

So you are against them marrying, except that you feel it is fine since they had sex already and she was pregnant? Or it's fine because her grandmother approves? Or it's fine because she has a crush on him? It's fine because the 19 year old agreed to marry her?
I never said I was 'Against' them marrying, harm has been done, it is about rectifying the situation not making it worst (you don't know what is best for this particular family) there isn't a set standard by which all society should be governed, in some places in Africa the life expectancy is 44, their population is actually dwindling, do you propose that they marry at the tender age of 25 because you deem that suitable and not criminal? .. if her husband or husband to be lands in jail she is on her own as an 11 year old single mother! Them being married at least guarantees some semblance of security, financial or otherwise!
Please clarify when you think it is fine for an 11 year old to get married, even though you have stated twice that you are against 11 years getting married.
See above, it is really not that difficult to understand..
Then please clarify for us what criteria you think there should be for putting pedophiles in jail. Tell me what criteria you would use that would allow a 19 year old man to have sex with an 11 year old with no penalty.

When a crime has been committed not consented to!

Do you think that I should be allowed to have sex with an 11 year old girl with no penalty? How about a 10 year old? 8?
I really don't give a **** what you do or don't do.. you are not someone whose life is of interest nor are you the topic of this subject!

all the best
 
So are you arguing for a 19 year old man having sex with an 11 year old girl or are you against it? Are you arguing that 11 year old girls should be allowed to marry 19 year old men or not? You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth here, yet call me the hypocrite.

Make up your mind.
no, it is you who need to some reality check and few slaps to knock some sense into you. putting aside the whole sex thing, if two people agree to get married and they both are capable of handling the marriage, physically, mentally and financially then who the heck are you to say they should not get married or support the moronic idiotic law to stop this from happening? Who gave you the right to butt in other people's private affairs and speak on behalf of supposedly 'victim', who does not even agree with you? Who in the world told you that age matters in marriage? What matters is 4 things I mentioned above: consent, physical, mental and financial ability to handle the marriage. These contradictory and moronic laws of age of marriage which your countries have passed have no value in the real world. Funny thing is that none of your countries agree with each other on deciding this age: when someone is mature and has become a man or woman! You want us to follow this rubbish, no thanks, keep it yourself and living in deluded world of 'superior ground in morality'. How funny that you attack us based on these flawed morals!
 
^^ good
the girl i christian btw..
it is common in many parts of the world from a geopolitical and socioeconomic reasons and conditions to have an exceptionally early marriage...
by same token of hypocrisy they should forbid elderly individuals from marrying, having surrogates, and harvesting other people's eggs and sperms on the account that they can no longer conceive for biological and physiological reasons, admittedly for me the latter is the one that should carry even more moral apprehension & scrutiny!

:wa:
 
:sl:
I Fully agree with the marriage they should get married it dose not make sense to throw the father in jail because this girl will need support etc.
And control your anger brother islamic life we don't want to be giving threats to non muslims of slapping sense in to there heads:)
 
When a crime has been committed not consented to!

You truly believe that? You think if an 8 year old consents to sex that it should allowed?

no, it is you who need to some reality check and few slaps to knock some sense into you.

I need to be slapped a few times? Why are there so many rude people on this forum?
Who gave you the right to butt in other people's private affairs and speak on behalf of supposedly 'victim', who does not even agree with you?

Everyone should have the right to voice their opinion. Tell me, do you think gay men should be allowed to marry each other? If not, then who gave you the right to butt into other people's private affairs and speak on behalf of people who don't agree with you?

I don't believe anyone should slap you, though, for believing differently than I do.

Who in the world told you that age matters in marriage?

Do you think a little girl can truly comprehend the immensity of marriage and what it will mean for her? Do you think an 11 year old truly has any idea what kind of man will make the best husband for her?

Please don't tell me that most 11 year olds have this capacity. They don't.

if two people agree to get married and they both are capable of handling the marriage, physically, mentally and financially then who the heck are you to say they should not get married or support the moronic idiotic law to stop this from happening?

Then you tell me what you define as "mentally able", "physically able", and "financially able". Who decides if an 11 year old is mentally able to get married? Who decides if someone is physically able? What, according to you, should be the criteria?

How funny that you attack us based on these flawed morals!

Exactly how was I attacking you? The people in this article are not even Muslims.
 
by same token of hypocrisy they should forbid elderly individuals from marrying,

Wouldn't hypocrisy be saying that this girl should be allowed to get married because she can conceive children, yet allowing the elderly to get married even though they can't?
 
You truly believe that? You think if an 8 year old consents to sex that it should allowed?

is she 8 now or 11? do you think you can focus at the task at hand?



Do you think a little girl can truly comprehend the immensity of marriage and what it will mean for her? Do you think an 11 year old truly has any idea what kind of man will make the best husband for her?
Do you think an 11 year old can comprehend the immensity of having a child and being a single mother? I think you constantly miss the point entirely!
Please don't tell me that most 11 year olds have this capacity. They don't.
You don't know who is capable of what, my 11 year old niece has already skipped two grades in school, her level of intellect is that of a 9th grader instead of a sixth grader.. again, what formal survey or study have you done, and if you have does everyone fall in the center of a bell shaped curve?



all the best!
 
Wouldn't hypocrisy be saying that this girl should be allowed to get married because she can conceive children, yet allowing the elderly to get married even though they can't?

The point I have made was using surrogates and bought sperms and eggs not the age of marriage (and due to my time constraints I'll not get into the dynamics of that).. further, I have never said this girl should be married because she can conceive, the fact is she has already given birth and stands to be a single mother if her husband to be is thrown in jail.. which in your mind do you think is more reprehensible, throwing her husband in jail because you and those like you think an abomination has been committed against her though she herself consented to it and worst yet already has a child, or rather allowing these people to figure this out with the help of their family and as a strong unit?


distorting what I write so that it can have your desired meaning doesn't change the fact of the matter, especially that I have clearly elucidated my points!

all the best
 
is she 8 now or 11? do you think you can focus at the task at hand?

You seem to say that it is not a crime if it is consented to. I want to see if you can clarify your point. I know you believe that if an 11 year old consents to sex then you have no problem with it, I wanted to know if that also applied to 8 year olds. Where exactly do you draw the line? Or do you draw the line?

Do you think an 11 year old can comprehend the immensity of having a child and being a single mother?

No, I don't. I think she has no clue the true significance of having a child or the responsibility that she has. In fact neither do the grandparents because they are the ones that said they will be raising the child. They also realize that this little girl cannot handle it.

You don't know who is capable of what, my 11 year old niece has already skipped two grades in school, her level of intellect is that of a 9th grader instead of a sixth grader.

You are equating intellect and maturity? They are two different things.
 
You seem to say that it is not a crime if it is consented to. I want to see if you can clarify your point. I know you believe that if an 11 year old consents to sex then you have no problem with it, I wanted to know if that also applied to 8 year olds. Where exactly do you draw the line? Or do you draw the line?

Menses for starters doesn't start at 8, just in case you wish to loan your drivel some credence.. and that is how cultures usually define the age of consent or the age of being nubile!
my standards aren't a subject for this topic anymore than a hypothetical 8 year old or your actions toward 8 year olds or even younger.. you sound like an angry rabid creature who wants to hang on to straws to save his dear life.. again, do you think you can focus at the topic at hand?


No, I don't. I think she has no clue the true significance of having a child or the responsibility that she has. In fact neither do the grandparents because they are the ones that said they will be raising the child. They also realize that this little girl cannot handle it.
Yeah, you think she has no clue.. but the facts are already on the table.. an infant will not go back to being a zygote and imprisoning her would be husband will in fact exacerbate an already bad situation... This is no longer a matter of prevention (as stated previously and twice, I don't think people should be married or having kids at 11) yet they have and they do.. the logical approach is to fix the situation, not make it worst.. one day this infant will grow up thinking he is a b astard child, and that his father is a rapist, even though he isn't, and that his mother is a w hore..
if they are too young to think that such definitions and societal views of them exist, then by the same token they are too young to understand imprisonment and being made into pariahs for what came naturally to them!

You are equating intellect and maturity? They are two different things.

I am really tired of your pedantic approach to the topic and everything written.. if it isn't one thing it is the other with you..
first it is about 8 year olds, then about you screwing 8 year olds, then about elderly not being married, then about intellect... please give me and the rest of us and perhaps even do yourself a great service and just take a hike, you are completely inept at handling the topic!

all the best
 
Menses for starters doesn't start at 8

Sometimes it does, actually.

my standards aren't a subject for this topic

They aren't? Strange, since every post you make is about what you think the standards should be. You are just a study in contradictions.

Yeah, you think she has no clue.. but the facts are already on the table

The facts on the table are that an 11 year old girl who still plays with toys had a baby and got married. Those facts have absolutely nothing to do with her readiness or maturity. Her getting married will not solve anything nor will it make the situation any better.


I am really tired of your pedantic approach to the topic and everything written.. if it isn't one thing it is the other with you..

I simply stated that intellect and maturity are two different things. The logic of your previous statement assumed they were the same. I am sorry that pointing out the flaws in your statements upsets you so much, but the insults only serve to accentuate your inability to make an intelligent response on the subject.
 
Sometimes it does, actually.
Again, not a topic on precocious puberty, rather normal physiological menses which is defined by the American pediatric association to fall between the ages of (9-16) under either circumstance and like everything else you bring to the table is completely irrelevant to our purposes here!


They aren't? Strange, since every post you make is about what you think the standards should be. You are just a study in contradictions.
Perhaps it has to do with how you read and process information, and given your just above statement seems to cements that charge!


The facts on the table are that an 11 year old girl who still plays with toys had a baby and got married. Those facts have absolutely nothing to do with her readiness or maturity. Her getting married will not solve anything nor will it make the situation any better.
you can have a doctorate and play with toys!
I have never seen a warning on my nintendo wii, that it is for children only or vice versa!




I simply stated that intellect and maturity are two different things. The logic of your previous statement assumed they were the same. I am sorry that pointing out the flaws in your statements upsets you so much, but the insults only serve to accentuate your inability to make an intelligent response on the subject.
I think this is an excellent perceptiveness into your own shortcomings and psyche!


all the best
 
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Again, not a topic on precocious puberty, rather normal physiological puberty which is defined by the American pediatric association to fall between the ages of (9-16) under either circumstance and like everything else you bring to the table is completely irrelevant to our purposes here!

1) Physiological puberty can begin at ages 7 or 8.
2) You are the one that brought this to the table. Nice attempt to turn the tables, although failed.
3) Funny how you post this yet accuse me of being pedantic.

You cannot attempt to equate puberty with maturity, then say it is off topic to talk about the ages of puberty.

And since you seem to have googled about this I decided to also. The Mayo Clinic says that "Puberty normally begins in girls between ages 8 and 12 and in boys between ages 9 and 14. Precocious puberty is puberty that begins before age 8 for girls and before age 9 for boys."

you can have a doctorate and play with toys!

We are talking about an 11 year old girl, not a doctor.

I think this is an excellent perceptiveness into your own shortcomings and psyche!

It is? How so when I am not the one posting insults?
 
1) Physiological puberty can begin at ages 7 or 8.

we are not talking puberty we are talking the onset of menses:
http://ashwellpharmacychimemillltd..../index2.php?option=com_static&do_pdf=1&id=311

puberty is a three year process which prepares the body for ovulation. 8 year olds having menses should be investigated for precocious puberty just like 16 year olds who haven't menstruated should be checked for both primary and secondary causes!

2) You are the one that brought this to the table. Nice attempt to turn the tables, although failed.
3) Funny how you post this yet accuse me of being pedantic.
Neither of these statements, although amusing to you on some level have any relevance to the topic or the point you are trying to make, if you ever had one!

You cannot attempt to equate puberty with maturity, then say it is off topic to talk about the ages of puberty.
Until such a time we see your double blind study with a tight confidence interval separating the two in all populations can we do the obvious with your testimony, which is to bin it!
And since you seem to have googled about this I decided to also. The Mayo Clinic says that "Puberty normally begins in girls between ages 8 and 12 and in boys between ages 9 and 14. Precocious puberty is puberty that begins before age 8 for girls and before age 9 for boys."
Again, see my previous post and this one.. puberty and menses aren't one in the same .. menstruation is the crowning result of that and the ability to bear children.. I really do think there is something wrong with how you read and process info.



We are talking about an 11 year old girl, not a doctor.
What does this mean?

It is? How so when I am not the one posting insults?
I have been trying to figure out what it is you are posting.. I think you are having difficulty bringing this plane in for a landing?

all the best!
 
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