Capital Punishment

[Predator]

Reminds me of the part of Monty Pythons "The life of Brian" where the Jewish terrorist group vote for Ron, a male member, to have the Right to get pregnant even if, through no fault of his own, he couldnt Biologically"!

Women have traditionally held different roles. The key here is TRADITIONALLY.
There are now Woman fighter pilots in the RAF, Russia had them back in the 40's. Women can be and are astronauts. They should be paid as a man, tried as a man, given the same RIGHTS as a man.

The inclusion of a womb does not suddely make her veiw worth less, nor does it give a man headship over his wife, as Christians are taught. It dosnt mean that women should cover their faces in order for men to withold their uncontrollable urge to rape anything not covered. Thats not their responsibility.
If they feel thats what they want to do, then great. If they want to wear a top hat and a tutu in the supermarket, then they have that right.
The right to Drive a car (*cough-Saudi*-cough), the right not to be treated as a second class citizen under the sexist propaganda of, "No Job for a Woman", "Protecting and cherishing a precious flower" or any form of wording which ends in a man under any circumstances to have a divine given right to beat, however lightly , with toothbrushes and gentle taps on the shoulder, (as endless scholars tell us) "their" woman. This by itself is the logical progression of a dark ages morality adapting as best it can. Most learned scholars now wax lyrical about the lightness of the beating , the last resort of it all.

Personally, I think very few beatings happen like that. Ive seen footage of women being beaten,and killed, and I can see western women being abused in the west by callous moronic men, (probably deserving it for going naked all day every day save for painting themselves with wanton signs). But this is prescribed against in law. Not sanctioned in law!

I havnt seen any muslim men, at the very last resources of their patience, after banishing their wife from the bed, and admonishing her, finally cracking, getting a toothbrush and chasing her around the garden tapping her lightly on the shoulder screaming "Youve Really Done it NOW! Look what you MADE me do!!! Be tapped lightly as a last resort into correct behaviour!"

Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijab i.e. the whole body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a skirt or a mini. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijab prevents the women from being molested.


Under the Islamic Shariah a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, and barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why the double standards?



USA has one of the highest rates of rape

United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape of any country in the world. According to an FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years.

Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijab, that is the whole body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?

Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes.
Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breath easier. Hijab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity


Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women
Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are employed as mere tools at the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

 

[Supreme]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape of any country in the world. According to an FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years.

It's not unreasonable to ask where you got these statistics.

Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijab, that is the whole body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?

I disagree with capital punishment full stop. Nothing good has ever come out of it. It doesn't reduce crime any more than any other punishment; a rapist will continue to be a rapist, no rapist is going to stop being a rapist magically if you introduce capital punishment.

X. Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes.
Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breath easier. Hijab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity

Really? It'll reduce the amount of rapes? And staistics/evidence? I assume not.

Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women
Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are employed as mere tools at the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

I agree with you that the West is sexist, and if it were up to me, we'd a have a female President of the United States and an immediate ban to pornography. However, to suggest that the West is as sexist as it used to be is silly and unresearched. Women can vote, can be promoted to high positions in government (as evidenced in Margaret Thatcher) and are every bit as educated as boys. Although we have got a long way to go, we've come a very long way.

 

[جوري]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

I disagree with capital punishment full stop. Nothing good has ever come out of it. It doesn't reduce crime any more than any other punishment; a rapist will continue to be a rapist, no rapist is going to stop being a rapist magically if you introduce capital punishment.
.

In a system of perfect justice there is equality and fairness. Killing in defense or justice is incomparable to murders and unjust killings. I can give several examples, and I'd like your input on each one.

A police officer arrives at the scene of a crime and sees a villian firing bullets into a screaming crowd. Can the officer kill him? Is he a hypocrite for doing so?

Someone rapes and then brutally murders your mother. Just imagine that for a moment and think seriously about your feelings then. Let's be honest, what punishment do you think he should recieve in order for justice to be served?

If you can picture that, picture warcriminals like Hitler who slaughtered millions of people - what should his punishment be? Is even death sufficient to deliver justice to the one who inflicted so much torture on innocent people?

I think from the above it becomes clear that not only is license to kill a necessity in the field of law enforcement, but it must also be part of the state's penal code in order to serve justice to the victims of crimes and to preserve order in the state through deterence. If someone commits first degree murder, then in a truly just society they should be executed. The only reason why Christians don't recieve criticism on these points is because they defer all punishments to the next life. But eternal suffering in Hellfire is much more severe than execution in this life. Why is it that there is so little protests against the belief in such a drastic punishment in the next life in comparison to the protests raised for a just punishment in this life.

Also note the tremendous evidence which shows how the death penalty significantly reduces crime:

(2003) Emory University Economics Department Chairman Hashem Dezhbakhsh and Emory Professors Paul Rubin and Joanna Shepherd state that "our results suggest that capital punishment has a strong deterrent effect. An increase in any of the probabilities -- arrest, sentencing or execution -- tends to reduce the crime rate. In particular, each execution results, on average, in eighteen fewer murders -- with a margin of error of plus or minus 10." (1) Their data base used nationwide data from 3,054 US counties from 1977-1996.

(2003) University of Colorado (Denver) Economics Department Chairman Naci Mocan and Graduate Assistant R. Kaj Gottings found "a statistically significant relationship between executions, pardons and homicide. Specifically each additional execution reduces homicides by 5 to 6, and three additional pardons (commutations) generate 1 to 1.5 additional murders." Their "data set contains detailed information on the entire 6,143 death sentences between 1977 and 1997. (2)

(2001) University of Houston Professors Dale Cloninger and Roberto Marchesini, found that death penalty moratoriums contribute to more homicides. They found: "The (Texas) execution hiatus (in 1996), therefore, appears to have spared few, if any, condemned prisoners while the citizens of Texas experienced a net 90 (to as many as 150) additional innocent lives lost to homicide. Politicians contemplating moratoriums may wish to consider the possibility that a seemingly innocuous moratorium on executions could very well come at a heavy cost." (3)

(2001) SUNY (Buffalo) Professor Liu finds that legalizing the death penalty not only adds capital punishment as a deterrent but also increases the marginal productivity of other deterrence measures in reducing murder rates. "Abolishing the death penalty not only gets rid of a valuable deterrent, it also decreases the deterrent effect of other punishments." "The deterrent effects of the certainty and severity of punishments on murder are greater in retentionist (death penalty) states than in abolition (non death penalty) states." (4)

(2003) Clemson U. Professor Shepherd found that each execution results, on average, in five fewer murders. Longer waits on death row reduce the deterrent effect. Therefore, recent legislation to shorten the time prior to execution should increase deterrence and thus save more innocent lives. Moratoriums and other delays should put more innocents at risk. In addition, capital punishment deters all kinds of murders, including crimes of passion and murders by intimates. Murders of both blacks and whites decrease after executions. (5)

(2003) FCC economist Dr. Paul Zimmerman finds: "Specifically, it is estimated that each state execution deters somewhere between 3 and 25 murders per year (14 being the average). Assuming that the value of human life is approximately $5 million {i.e. the average of the range estimates provided by Viscussi (1993)}, our estimates imply that society avoids losing approximately $70 million per year on average at the current rate of execution all else equal." The study used state level data from 1978 to 1997 for all 50 states (excluding Washington D.C.). (6)

(2003) Emory University Economics Department Chairman Hashem Dezhbakhsh and Clemson U. Professor Shepherd found that "The results are boldly clear: executions deter murders and murder rates increase substantially during moratoriums. The results are consistent across before-and-after comparisons and regressions regardless of the data's aggregation level, the time period, or the specific variable to measure executions." (7)
​

Quote:
2. Punishment for theft. I believe that cutting off someone's hand is barbaric. Simple as that.
A couple of points to note on the punishment of amputation for theft:
a-the punishment will not be applied if there is any doubt as to the guilt of the suspect
b-the punishment will not be applied if the value of the stolen goods is below something of great value -> determined by 'urf (customs of society)
c-the punishment will not be applied if the thief stole out of need/poverty
d-the punishment will not be applied if the goods weren't in proper storage (al-hirz) -> also determined by 'urf (customs of society)
e-the punishment will not be applied if the thief returns the goods and seeks forgiveness of the victim of the theft, before the case enters the judicial system
f-the punishment will not be applied if the culprit is not a sane adult and the crime was not committed under duress
g-the punishment will not be applied if the goods were not legally owned
h-the punishment will not be applied if it is a child stealing from parents or parents stealing from children or one spuse from another according to the opinion of all jurists except Imaam Malik.
i-the punishment will not be applied if the person is permitted to enter the place from where he stole because in such a case there is no proper custody (al-hirz)
j-according to Imaam Abu Hanifa the punishment is not applied to the non-muslim living in the muslim state, however Imaam Shafi', Imaam Maalik and Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal have said that it is.

If the theft passes these restrictions, then it recieves the hadd punishment of hand amputation. Any theft that does not meet these restrictions recieves ta'azir (discretionary punishment). In such cases the Islamic society would most likely follow case/common law by rule of precedent where like cases are treated alike.

Coming to the scenario where amputation is applied in theft, it is interesting to note the effect this has on society. I'd like to quote some parts of a discussion at a conference of the Saudi scholars:

At this point Dr. Dawalbi made a comment:

"I have been in this country for seven years", he said, "and I never saw of heard of, any amputation of the hand for stealing. This is because the crime is extremely rare. So, all that remains of that punishment is its harshness, which has made it possible for those who are tempted to steal, to keep their hands whole. Formerly, when these regions were ruled by the french-inspired Penal Code, under the Ottoman Empire, pilgrims travelling between the two Holy Cities - Mecca and Medina, could not feel secure for their purse or their life, unless they had a strong escort.
But when this country became the Saudi Kingdom, the Qur'anic Law was enforced, crime immediately disappeared. A traveller, then, could journey, not only between the Holy Cities, but even from Al-Dahran on the Gulf to Jeddah on the Red Sea, and traverse a distance of more than one thousand and five hundred kilometres across the desert all alone in his private car, without harbouring any fear or worry about his life or property, be it worth millions of dollars, and he be a complete foreigner."​

The Saudi Delegation resumed:

"In this manner, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where Islamic law is enforced, state money is transferred from one town to another, from one bank to another, in an ordinary car, without any escort or protection, but the car driver. Tell me, Gentlemen: in any of your Western States, would you be ready to transfer money from one bank to another, in any of your capitals without the protection of a strong police force and the necessary number of armoured cars?
...Only here, Gentlemen, in this country where Islamic Law is enforced, the American Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. William Rogers, during his visit last year, could, he and his suit, dispense with the armoured cars, which had been carried in by special planes, and which accompanied them in their tour of more than ten countries. Only here, Gentlemen, did the Government of the Kingdom not allow its visitors to go around in these cars. Eventually, Mr. Rogers spontaneously declined the guard of honour usually placed by the Government at the disposal of their foreign guests; he walked through the soulks by himself, and confessed that, in this Kingdom, and in this Kingdom alone, one had such a feeling of security that one had no more need of a gurad.
...Stealing is almost unknown in our Kingdom, when people, in the great Capitals of Western countries under secular regimes, have no more security for their luves of their possessions.​

(Doi, Shari'ah: The Islamic Law, Ta Ha Publishers 1984, pp. 260-261)​

Personally, I know many people who have lived for ten or twenty years in Saudi Arabia and they have testified that they have never come across such a case of amputation for theft. When you implement such a balanced code, theft becomes un heard of.

Callum, I want you to look at this UN survey of burglaries between 1998-2000. Tell me who is at the bottom of the list? Who is at the top?

1. United States 2,099,700 burglaries (1999)
2. United Kingdom 836,027 burglaries (2000)
.
.
.
54. Saudi Arabia 11 (2000)!!!!

Which law is more successful?


These are concrete statistics here. There is no doubt when the UN conducts a survey and the country implementing Islamic law has the fewest burglaries, it demonstrates which is the most successful law is this regard.

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/4498-shariah-law.html

 

[Supreme]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

A police officer arrives at the scene of a crime and sees a villian firing bullets into a screaming crowd. Can the officer kill him? Is he a hypocrite for doing so?

Yes, as it is immediate self defence and is not a capital punishment. Although, Britain has a far smaller problem with this, not because it introduces capital punishment but because it outlaws guns in the first place.

Someone rapes and then brutally murders your mother. Just imagine that for a moment and think seriously about your feelings then. Let's be honest, what punishment do you think he should recieve in order for justice to be served?

I would want them to die. Would I want the state to kill them? Of course not. I would want to kill them myself. The state killing them is not better than any other punishment in my eyes if I do not personally get to kill them.

If you can picture that, picture warcriminals like Hitler who slaughtered millions of people - what should his punishment be? Is even death sufficient to deliver justice to the one who inflicted so much torture on innocent people?

In extreme cases like that, I do agree that the person in question should recieve death. However, only in such rare and extreme cases.

The only reason why Christians don't recieve criticism on these points is because they defer all punishments to the next life. But eternal suffering in Hellfire is much more severe than execution in this life. Why is it that there is so little protests against the belief in such a drastic punishment in the next life in comparison to the protests raised for a just punishment in this life.

Because God is the judge of all things, and we can't protest against the actions of God.

Personally, I know many people who have lived for ten or twenty years in Saudi Arabia and they have testified that they have never come across such a case of amputation for theft. When you implement such a balanced code, theft becomes un heard of.

Can you be sure that it's the code itself that is the deterrent, or is it the fact that Saudis are devout Muslims and would rarely steal anyway?

These are concrete statistics here. There is no doubt when the UN conducts a survey and the country implementing Islamic law has the fewest burglaries, it demonstrates which is the most successful law is this regard.

I'm not sure whether I'd live in a country where I'd fear the authorities more that I feared criminals.

 

[Trumble]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

1. United States 2,099,700 burglaries (1999)
2. United Kingdom 836,027 burglaries (2000)
.
.
.
54. Saudi Arabia 11 (2000)!!!!

Which law is more successful?


These are concrete statistics here. There is no doubt when the UN conducts a survey and the country implementing Islamic law has the fewest burglaries, it demonstrates which is the most successful law is this regard.

Oh, c'mon. You know perfectly well that that conclusion can't be drawn from those statistics, concrete or otherwise (and I suggest that due to wide variations in the proportion of crimes actually reported, and ways of recording them, they are far from it).

The statistics suggest to me that other social and cultural factors are likely to be far more significant than the legal system itself; compare the startling difference between the US, UK, Germany and Australia on one hand, and Spain, Portugal, Greece and Norway on the other, for example.

And I'd point out that Burmese law was even more 'successful'; perhaps we should all adopt that?

 

[جوري]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

Oh, c'mon. You know perfectly well that that conclusion can't be drawn from those statistics, concrete or otherwise (and I suggest that due to wide variations in the proportion of crimes actually reported, and ways of recording them, they are far from it).

The statistics suggest to me that social and cultural factors are likely to be far more significant than the legal system itself; compare the startling difference between the US, UK, Germany and Australia on one hand, and Spain, Portugal, Greece and Norway on the other, for example.

And I'd point out that Burmese law was even more 'successful'; perhaps we should all adopt that?

There is more than stats there. there is conclusive research. I definitely believe that if punishment fit the crime and was made public then folks would think twice before going postal. These sort of crimes are difficult to hide for you to conclude that they were simply not reported, if a neurobiologist opening fire on her colleagues:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/us/14alabama.html
just doesn't happen in 'Burma' then perhaps you should see what it is that they are doing over there that is missing in your country. I really dislike the laxity in western ideals and paradoxically so when it comes to people they perceive as a threat, there is no problem there at all killing civilians:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...5069201932210756.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

but exacting justice on hardened criminals seems to be barbaric?

I realize your sensitivities to seeing people put to death by some edict and all I can tell you is, this doesn't have to be a job delegated to you.. just like in the human body you have cells that produce collagen and others that are immune mediators so in real life everyone has their job. If a job is done half-good then then an imbalance occurs and it can get out of hand and you must concede to that.. think about it.. when you are sick do you want an antibiotic or anti-neoplastic that works half way through or all the way through?

peace

 

[Argamemnon]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

I agree with you that the West is sexist, and if it were up to me, we'd a have a female President of the United States and an immediate ban to pornography. However, to suggest that the West is as sexist as it used to be is silly and unresearched. Women can vote, can be promoted to high positions in government (as evidenced in Margaret Thatcher) and are every bit as educated as boys. Although we have got a long way to go, we've come a very long way.

The fact that women are treated as meat nullifies all the 'progress' made in other areas. Any society where pre-marital sex has become the 'cultural norm' can't possibly remain healthy in the long term. The family is the most important unit of society and plays an essential role.

Also, the primary job of a woman is raising children. It's a much more honourable job than pursuing some empty 'career'. This doesn't mean that women should remain uneducated or not allowed to work at all, but it should not be the cultural norm for women to work full-time. As Muslims we believe it's men's job to provide for the family.

 

[SweetCherryPie]

Sadly, over here ... regardless of what women wear, they still get raped. Hijab or no hijab.

I know for a fact that if a woman is raped, the family members would definitely go for capital punishment!

 

[Nokiacrazi]

In Islam women are equal but different. Let me give you an example.

Student A scores 80% in his test.
Student B scores 80% in his test.

There are 10 sections each consisting of 10 marks.

Student A gets 9/10 in the first section, 7/10 in the second section and 8/10 in the rest.
Student B gets 7/10 in the first section, 9/10 in the second section and 8/10 in the rest.

Student A and B are equal, but have a degree of advantage in different things.

Men have been given more physical strength then the women (normally), therefore we cannot tell our women to go fight intruders etc.

Women have been given more respect when it comes to children. 3 times more respect and companionship should be given to the mother then the father.

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 2:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man further said, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man asked for the fourth time, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your father. "

As for capital punishment, I agree with this totally. If someone is raped, and the rapist is proved to have been the rapist then he should be executed. Not only will this serve as a punishment in this lifetime, it will certainly deter any other rapists.

If you look at the country with the least amount of rape/burglary, it is Saudi Arabia. Why is this? It is because the punishment for such crimes is so severe people dare not commit such crimes. However, I am not saying that it does not happen at all.

Allah knows best, may he guide us all.

 

[Lynx]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

The fact that women are treated as meat nullifies all the 'progress' made in other areas. Any society where pre-marital sex has become the 'cultural norm' can't possibly remain healthy in the long term. The family is the most important unit of society and plays an essential role.

Also, the primary job of a woman is raising children. It's a much more honourable job than pursuing some empty 'career'. This doesn't mean that women should remain uneducated or not allowed to work at all, but it should not be the cultural norm for women to work full-time. As Muslims we believe it's men's job to provide for the family.

I totally agree with you that the family unit is being fragmented in favour of a hedonistic set of values but I still I think you got a problem here: why on Earth do you think the primary job of a woman is raising children? Let's be frank here, natural does not imply good and unnatural does not imply bad. To some women, raising children is the empty job whereas being a political leader for instance is the 'honourable' thing. Or, for some women being a full-time scientist and researching something is the honourable job not raising children. I am not saying raising children is not honourable or anything like that; I am simply saying you shouldn't state your personal values as matters of fact.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

I totally agree with you that the family unit is being fragmented in favour of a hedonistic set of values but I still I think you got a problem here: why on Earth do you think the primary job of a woman is raising children? Let's be frank here, natural does not imply good and unnatural does not imply bad. To some women, raising children is the empty job whereas being a political leader for instance is the 'honourable' thing. Or, for some women being a full-time scientist and researching something is the honourable job not raising children. I am not saying raising children is not honourable or anything like that; I am simply saying you shouldn't state your personal values as matters of fact.

Cuz the child comes to this world from her womb? Cuz her mammary glands automatically start secreting milk if she hears her child crying? Now you are asking me why is she responsible for raising her child? SubhanAllah, no matter what such a vile mother might think that its not her responsibility to raise a child, nature dictates it to her body to do that. verily Allah has surrounded them from everywhere.

 

[Lynx]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

Cuz the child comes to this world from her womb? Cuz her mammary glands automatically start secreting milk if she hears her child crying? Now you are asking me why is she responsible for raising her child?

Hi

Like I said, the 'natural' way of doing things does not imply Good and the unnatural way of doing things does not imply bad.

I think I will agree that it is better for a mother to take care of young infants because she's best at it but what if after 1 kid is a bit older she decides no longer to have any kids because she'd rather pursue a career or something? The person I was responding seemed to be implying that a woman shouldn't put her career ahead of kids and stuff.

 

[barney]

Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijab i.e. the whole body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a skirt or a mini. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijab prevents the women from being molested.


Under the Islamic Shariah a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, and barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why the double standards?



USA has one of the highest rates of rape

United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape of any country in the world. According to an FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years.

Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijab, that is the whole body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?

Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes.
Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breath easier. Hijab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity


Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women
Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are employed as mere tools at the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

So the obvious answer is let women who want to dance in a bikini through the street do so. Those who wish to wear full plate armour covered in spikes can also do so. The woman should decide.

Nobody MAKES young girls wear mini's. Indeed its a age related thing. any woman still wearing a mini in her early 30's is laughed at.

Isnt it strange that in a land stuffed with nothing but lewd wanton women deliberatly provoking men, that rapes are so uncommon still? It's almost like men can control themselves!

As the poster above noted. Rapes happen in all nations; yes even Islamic ones. Often by the Husband.
A Muslim rape victim is of course under no honour or shame related restrictions on reporting such crimes. All she must do is grab the four witnesses to prove she isnt lying and ba-boom. case closed. Evry rape of course has four witnesses readily availible!
The idea of Hijab offering practical protection is an illusion as the sister pointed out.

as regards capital punishment, If someone raped my wife, no, i wouldnt want her victim stoned to death, nor burned, nor mutilated. I'd want them imprisoned. The amount of rape cases where the rapist is subsequently aquitted alone makes this a moral imperative.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

Hi

Like I said, the 'natural' way of doing things does not imply Good and the unnatural way of doing things does not imply bad.

I think I will agree that it is better for a mother to take care of young infants because she's best at it but what if after 1 kid is a bit older she decides no longer to have any kids because she'd rather pursue a career or something? The person I was responding seemed to be implying that a woman shouldn't put her career ahead of kids and stuff.

Just like nature has dictated physiologically to her body to feed to her child, nature has also endowed her with qualities to raise a child such that he/she becomes a productive member of the society. To that effect it is her primary responsibility till the child comes off age where he/she can think for his or her self and distinguish between good and bad.

 

[Italianguy]

So the obvious answer is let women who want to dance in a bikini through the street do so. Those who wish to wear full plate armour covered in spikes can also do so. The woman should decide.

Nobody MAKES young girls wear mini's. Indeed its a age related thing. any woman still wearing a mini in her early 30's is laughed at.

Isnt it strange that in a land stuffed with nothing but lewd wanton women deliberatly provoking men, that rapes are so uncommon still? It's almost like men can control themselves!

As the poster above noted. Rapes happen in all nations; yes even Islamic ones. Often by the Husband.
A Muslim rape victim is of course under no honour or shame related restrictions on reporting such crimes. All she must do is grab the four witnesses to prove she isnt lying and ba-boom. case closed. Evry rape of course has four witnesses readily availible!
The idea of Hijab offering practical protection is an illusion as the sister pointed out.

as regards capital punishment, If someone raped my wife, no, i wouldnt want her victim stoned to death, nor burned, nor mutilated. I'd want them imprisoned. The amount of rape cases where the rapist is subsequently aquitted alone makes this a moral imperative.

One wouldn't need to seek capital punishment for a man who atttemted to rape my wife!

God be with the man who I find has raped my wife....God be with him! He should not fear capital punishment....fear me!

 

[Lynx]

Re: How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

Just like nature has dictated physiologically to her body to feed to her child, nature has also endowed her with qualities to raise a child such that he/she becomes a productive member of the society. To that effect it is her primary responsibility till the child comes off age where he/she can think for his or her self and distinguish between good and bad.

So if a woman decides not to have kids so that it does not hinder her career choice then there isn't anything wrong with that, yes?

 

[barney]

One wouldn't need to seek capital punishment for a man who atttemted to rape my wife!

God be with the man who I find has raped my wife....God be with him! He should not fear capital punishment....fear me!

I understand that emotion Italianguy. Its a pretty natural one.

But there again lots of things are natural, as a modern human male its still a natural instinct to go hunting and drag a ox back to my lair to feed my offspring. I cant beat my chest and roar at my doorway as i bring home a McDonalds, (well i can , and indeed have done, but it dosnt feel quite the same) I likewise cant head off to a wood and slay one. I'd be in a psychi ward very rapidly under section.

Point is, as civilised humans we overcome instincts left behind by evolution, this is well and good as we cant function otherwise. The social instinct overcomes the animal instinct. thats why we dont all go about raping.

Rape has other issues. it's a mans "property" being "damaged". Dont get me started on that one!:raging:

 

[CosmicPathos]

I understand that emotion Italianguy. Its a pretty natural one.

But there again lots of things are natural, as a modern human male its still a natural instinct to go hunting and drag a ox back to my lair to feed my offspring. I cant beat my chest and roar at my doorway as i bring home a McDonalds, (well i can , and indeed have done, but it dosnt feel quite the same) I likewise cant head off to a wood and slay one. I'd be in a psychi ward very rapidly under section.

Point is, as civilised humans we overcome instincts left behind by evolution, this is well and good as we cant function otherwise. The social instinct overcomes the animal instinct. thats why we dont all go about raping.

Rape has other issues. it's a mans "property" being "damaged". Dont get me started on that one!:raging:

perhaps that emotion was left in you specifically by evolution. i do not seem to be evolved. So I cannot relate to what you are saying.

So uncivilized humans, created by evolution, are now trying to be civilized? Lets wait to see if the definition of civilization also evolves or not.

 

[barney]

perhaps that emotion was left in you specifically by evolution. i do not seem to be evolved. So I cannot relate to what you are saying.

So uncivilized humans, created by evolution, are now trying to be civilized? Lets wait to see if the definition of civilization also evolves or not.

Awwh Mad! c'mon, thats being too hard on yerself! All humans have the ability to transend to a higher way of thinking, which is basically all that social evolution is about. When i was a kid, racism was still something funny and prevelant in my society. We evolved past it by common consent, which led to todays multiculturalism and race-embracing attitudes. no bad thing, even though it means i technically have to like the French.

Will we evolve socially? Sure we all are, all the time. look at attitudes in your nation 20 years ago towards many things such as gays, marrige, women, crime, racism, etc etc. you'll be able to see huge changes in even that short space of time.

 

[Joe98]

Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes.

Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable.

If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breath easier.

In every society, on the face of the earth, rape is against the law.

If Sharia law is implemented rape is still against the law.

The law will not change. All that will change is the punishment. It will be something barbaric.

And, under Sharia courts, proving rape is more difficult than in western courts. Four witnesses ???? It becomes easy to get away with rape.

-