Simple, logical arguments to prove the existence of God

[جوري]

Oh and Hitch is undoubtadly a massive intellectual. He's a drunk and a chainsmoker and he certainly can turn a phrase to upset the cherished beleifs of others, but Intellectual he remains at 27 in the top 100, a few points behind Dawkins

wow that graph sure is scientific, where did you get it from? some Nudist camp? :haha: you are nothing if not delusional!

all the best

 

[barney]

wow that graph sure is scientific, where did you get it from? some Nudist camp? :haha: you are nothing if not delusional!

all the best

Why not take a look at its source? then try laughing again?:shade:

 

[جوري]

Why not take a look at its source? then try laughing again?:shade:

I don't see a source and I doubt you even know how to read graphs or that this wouldn't be ripped apart by anyone with one course in statistics and epidemiology but to humor you, do tell of the formula that raises your IQ once You take a month off and enroll in a community college for a theology course and come back changing your way of life to atheist? lol I'll have to concede that you must really enjoy your job as a board jester.. Here is a thought, let's all change our way of life to atheist so we can be insta. geniuses! ;D

 

[CosmicPathos]

First of all the definition of intelligence quotient is dubious.

I can pull a similar chart where I can relate people's riches (both dumb and intelligent) with their belief in God. Most well-to-do people seldom pray to God or believe in God in the well-developed countries.

 

[جوري]

woops I have to apologize.. seeing that you got this from the estemmed wiki, from the esteemed LynnHarveyNyborg, which found atheists to be a whopping 1.95 point higher than an agnostic.. I am so glad that you achieved this 1.95 points from the last time you were on board.. Again, very scientific study with no confounders and a very tight confidence interval. Unfortunately when your IQ is up 1.95 from 35, you still need to enroll in some basic vocational course to foster self-esteem..

all the best

 

[جوري]

First of all the definition of intelligence quotient is dubious. .

The study focuses on one population so that is one confounder for certainly you see them comparing to libbys conservatives etc. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and any other group isn't a part of this study. further atheists makeup only 10% of the population, so even if you take a pool of the entire atheist population you can't begin to compare it to 90% of the general population, another confounder, and I can go on and on but don't have the time or interest to humor moronity and the faulty studies they run to cater to their egos!

Already several studies show that the majority of scientists and doctors are religious and as per that poll people with higher education tend to have a higher IQ. so here is yet another self inflicted confounder if the whole thing were nothing but mere negligence of common sense.. but who cares when the esteemed journal you are reading is wiki and the word you hold in high regard is that of a guy who can't do basic math? And at the end of the day, who cares?

 

[Froggy]

Already several studies show that the majority of scientists and doctors are religious

Only doctors which makes sense due to the nature of work.

 

[جوري]

Only doctors which makes sense due to the nature of work.

No, not only doctors, scientists as well and Br. aamirsaab posted the link earlier.. not that anyone should really care for these kinds of studies.. I find them ludicrous. One shouldn't believe in God because a scientist or a doctor does, or fail to believe because allegedly people with higher IQ's don't.. I can't believe how absurd we are being. We should not be bullied into or out of our convictions. The road to God is a solo journey and not a poll!

all the best

 

[Froggy]

No, not only doctors, scientists as well and Br. aamirsaab posted the link earlier.. not that anyone should really care for these kinds of studies.. I find them ludicrous. One shouldn't believe in God because a scientist or a doctor does, or fail to believe because allegedly people with higher IQ's don't.. I can't believe how absurd we are being. We should not be bullied into or out of our convictions. The road to God is a solo journey and not a poll!

all the best

I didn't see any link. Where, in this thread?

 

[barney]

Apology accepted Skye.
As you no doubt know with your photoretentive memory
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=bdb3ca48b21fdb2959f6f8ce4b6001de

The scource which isnt Wiki, the Graph is from wiki, was an exhaustive study which showed 6 g-IQ points higher with atheism than those adhering to a religion.
Also a lesser increase for agnostics.
The study covered nearly 140 countries.

Belittling such a study only belittles your own acceptance of the methods of science. it certainly shows your ready to laugh at something well before you know what it is.
I note from earlier posts your first medicines of choice for personal use include bloodletting/cupping and medicinal urine? That would certainly make sense with such a respect for investagative science.

Thus perhaps you should question who is being the fool in this instance?

 

[جوري]

I didn't see any link. Where, in this thread?

PM aamirsaab the mod. the search feature is failing me

all the best

 

[جوري]

Apology accepted Skye.
As you no doubt know with your photoretentive memory
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W4M-4SD1KNR-1&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F29%2F2008&_alid=759868596&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=6546&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=1&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=bdb3ca48b21fdb2959f6f8ce4b6001de

The scource which isnt Wiki, the Graph is from wiki, was an exhaustive study which showed 6 g-IQ points higher with atheism than those adhering to a religion.
Also a lesser increase for agnostics.
The study covered nearly 140 countries.

Belittling a study only belittles your own acceptance of the methods of science. it certainly shows your ready to laugh at something well before you know what it is.
I note from earlier posts your first medicines of choice for personal use include bloodletting/cupping and medicinal urine? That would certainly make sense with such a respect for investagative science.

Thus perhaps you should question who is being the fool in this instance?

I have listed the confounders one by one of the so-called study I didn't merely voice my concern over nothing. I doubt very much that you yourself are able to understand what the numbers actually mean in the scheme of things. 1.6 points higher is negligible, if I am to take it at face value.

Now, I do indeed believe in prophetic medicine, however I never said it is a substitute for clinical trials and modern medicine, and the fact that you mention cupping or urine, really shows what an under-educated person you are because I have listed modern therapies that incorporate 'blood letting' and using or both mare and postmenopausal urine for tried and proven medical therapy as such was used millenniums ago!

By the way the article you mention above needs a $37 fee, do you have the full article, I'd be more than happy to point out biases, confounders, P values, confidence intervals etc. etc. in a way I know fully escapes you, because you fail differentiate science from emotionality!
You don't up the ante merely for changing a way of life!

One thing for sure barn. You don't want to take me on if you want to come out of this with some semblance of dignity!

all the best of course!

 

[CosmicPathos]

"Second, this conclusion raises the question of why should
there be this negative correlation between IQ and belief in God.
Many rationalists no doubt accept the argument advanced by
Frazer (1922, p.712) in The Golden Bough that as civilisations
developed “the keener minds came to reject the religious theory
of nature as inadequate … religion, regarded as an explanation of
nature, is replaced by science” (by “keener minds” Frazer
presumably meant the more intelligent). Others have assumed
implicitly or explicitly that more intelligent people are more
prone to question irrational or unprovable religious dogmas. For
instance, some 60 years ago Kuhlen and Arnold (1944) proposed
that “greater intellectual maturity might be expected to increase
scepticism in matters of religion”.transmitted to much of the present population."

Interesting


@ Skye: let me know if you need the article, just got it.

 

[Froggy]

I have listed the confounders one by one of the so-called study I didn't merely voice my concern over nothing. I doubt very much that you yourself are able to understand what the numbers actually mean in the scheme of things. 1.6 points higher is negligible, if I am to take it at face value.

Now, I do indeed believe in prophetic medicine, however I never said it is a substitute for clinical trials and modern medicine, and the fact that you mention cupping or urine, really shows what an under-educated person you are because I have listed modern therapies that incorporate 'blood letting' and using or both mare and postmenopausal urine for tried and proven medical therapy as such was used millenniums ago!

By the way the article you mention above needs a $37 fee, do you have the full article, I'd be more than happy to point out biases, confounders, P values, confidence intervals etc. etc. in a way I know fully escapes you, because you fail differentiate science from emotionality!
You don't up the ante merely for changing a way of life!

One thing for sure barn. You don't want to take me on if you want to come out of this with some semblance of dignity!

all the best of course!

Why don't you apply the same criteria to studies saying girls do better in single girls schools?

 

[جوري]

@ Skye: let me know if you need the article, just got it.

No, I really don't care and I am not sure why anyone should be made to care:

consider this as 'intellectual' warfare vs. Intellectual pride, and I read an excellent article on it, which I shall excerpt below in relation to 'evolution':

when Intellectual pride enters into the picture as well. Who among us does not want to present at least the appearance of being smart and well educated? Over the last century, we have been led to believe that if we wish to be considered intelligent, then we should believe in evolution, because intelligent people all over the world believe in evolution. As Henry Morris well stated the issue: “[T]he main reason most educated people believe in evolution is simply because they have been told that most educated people believe in evolution!” (Morris, 1963, p. 26).

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/238

When push comes to shove, they will all peddle the same rhetoric, which you are to accept at face value without subjecting it to the same dissection you'd any other field in science. It is no longer about science but becomes a belief all in its own but under the umbrella of science and by virtue of that alone should it is forced upon us that it should hold some weightiness or credence!

 

[CosmicPathos]

Only doctors which makes sense due to the nature of work.

I see that there is a certain backlash against doctors, raised by these arrogant PhD scientists.

Doctors have to have at least a Bsc in sciences (or Arts with a certain number of science pre-reqs, most doctors do BSc anyways) in North America before getting into medical schools. If performance on tests and exams (including the standardized MCAT) have anything to do with intelligence, doctors are more-or-less the cream of science students who finish BSc, more so than the arrogant scientists who did relatively poorly in their Bsc days.

Actually, one view among pre-meds is that a person who did not perform well in his Bsc for med school standards should THEN look for going to graduate school.

 

[barney]

I have listed the confounders one by one of the so-called study I didn't merely voice my concern over nothing. I doubt very much that you yourself are able to understand what the numbers actually mean in the scheme of things. 1.6 points higher is negligible, if I am to take it at face value.

Now, I do indeed believe in prophetic medicine, however I never said it is a substitute for clinical trials and modern medicine, and the fact that you mention cupping or urine, really shows what an under-educated person you are because I have listed modern therapies that incorporate 'blood letting' and using or both mare and postmenopausal urine for tried and proven medical therapy as such was used millenniums ago!

By the way the article you mention above needs a $37 fee, do you have the full article, I'd be more than happy to point out biases, confounders, P values, confidence intervals etc. etc.

One thing for sure barn. You don't want to take me on if you want to come out of this with some semblance of dignity!

all the best of course!

Sounding a little scared there!
But what is this? All prophetic medicine might not be efficacious?
6 IQ points isnt a piddling amount,its a statistical significance.

This , as you will surely know is just one of many studies which confirm that, for whatever reason, the religious are of lower intelligence than the non-religious. Reasons why that might be are not addressed in the study.
Have I got a link to the full study? Naah, it was presented last year in a lecture to me covering its scope and the data produced. I wiki'd it up for your delight.

More than happy to continue this. Perhaps a 6% drop in IQ isnt statistical measured against your own mighty cortex of gargantuan megabrainage, but to the rest of us mere mortals with an average IQ of 100,(Or like my own IQ of 117), it certainly makes you ponder the reasons.

The statistics are not in doubt, and i will no doubt (as you are eager for me to do so!;D ) pull out some more studies. Hmm, but anything not fitting your preconceived dogma would be trashed as worthless, regard;less of what the finest brains on the planet discover!

More honest really though to debate the Why and not the If, for the If is not in doubt.

My own take on it?
Religion is easier to understand. It requires less effort to accept than to disbeleive. Those who take the effort to investigate are those who succeed at post grad level. Those who take the effort to investigate find better explainations for existance than god did it TM

 

[Holly]

I was about to say the same thing Wallah, but figured it isn't worth it..
as per my other post:
You must remember that atheists aren't very evolved.. in the evolutionary scale, they are still stuck back at ape.. so they have monolithic unrefined beliefs.

Your hoped-for slight directed at Atheism and your slur toward the science of evolution had the opposite effect. You'll find the evidence for major evolution is vast and overwhelming. I'll be pleased to provide additional data sources at your request.

Unfortunately, your entire premise is terribly flawed. I see this frequently. My suspicion is that you have been coached by religious entities who certainly have a vested interest in placating your desire to believe the religious tales and fables in lieu of hard facts.

Meaning, of course that the "apes into human beings" nonsense displays a fundamental lack of understanding and knowledge on your part. Man was never an ape. Man was never descended from an ape. Man and primates shared a common ancestor but branched off in separate directions. That's not at all uncommon in evolutionary history, by the way, for species to diverge in different directions while sharing a common ancestry.

If your hope was to denigrate science and to disparage Atheism, you failed.

 

[جوري]

Why don't you apply the same criteria to studies saying girls do better in single girls schools?

I have listed several confounders above, one I consider most important happens to be the large disparity between atheists and theists disabling this study from having any real values. However half or slightly more than half the population are girls..and the board of education produces the numbers yearly for your consideration.

This topic is neither about the alleged intelligence of atheists or why girls do better, or how I approach and understand a study. It is about arguments to the existence of God!

pls. don't derail me on every other thread because you desire to jump on a particular opposing bandwagon!

all the best

 

[جوري]

Your hoped-for slight directed at Atheism and your slur toward the science of evolution had the opposite effect. Y

were you not the maggot that was just annexed from this forum?

someone pls look into this person's account.. I am not in the mood to kid handle every bruised ego!