Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Predator]

Salaam/Peace




Whenever any Prophet pbuh came , it was a must for the people to accept him . Rejecting any Prophet pbuh means rejecting God's will and command .

Accpeting Muhammed pbuh means accepting all Prophets from the first to the last one . Anyone who rejects any Prophet is not a Muslim.

Those who came before Muhammed pbuh , if they worshipped one God only and obeyed the Prohet who came to them , God Willing they will find themselves in heaven.


And God knows Best.

Yes they will go to heaven as they accepted the message of Prophets of their respective time and they worshipped Allah and they died before the coming of Muhammad(PBUH).If they were alive they will accept Muhammad(PBUH) The religion of all the prophets from Adam(PBUH) to Muhammad (PBUH) is the same worshipping Allah the one and Only God.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The religion of all the prophets from Adam(PBUH) to Muhammad (PBUH) is the same worshipping Allah the one and Only God.

What do you mean by, "the religion of all the prophets...is the same"? Obviously they were different in some ways or there would be no need for any subsequent prophets. Even if the first was sent just to one group of people, the next one would need do no more than say, "Hey, what he (prophet #1) said, that goes for you guys too."

In what ways is the message of the new prophet different than the previous prophet(s)?

 

[Grace Seeker]

unlike in most versions of Christianity, where having the "correct belief" is the most important "condition" of the religion

This thread is about Islam, not Christianity, so I don't want to waste time in debate, I just want to say that I am sorry that somehow we Christians have given you this mistaken impression. It isn't really the case with us any more than what you report it being for Islam. For us belief isn't even a noun, but is itself a verb.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Thanks to all who commented on how those before Muhammad could be accepted. That response makes some sense to me. And I get how testimony is not just with words. Did anyone address the last of my questions from above:

Muhammad doesn't keep one from Hell, only Allah does. Why is it necessary to make ... testimony about Muhammad?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.. Did anyone address the last of my questions from above:

I tried

Let me try again . Accepting Muhammed pbuh means accepting ALL Prophets pbut ; one can't say that ok , I accept Muhammed pbuh as the last Prophet but reject Jesus pbuh .

as the Last Prophet pbuh came from God Almighty - after his arrival it's a must for all to accept him as it was a must for people to accept the previous Prophets like Abraham , Moses , Jesus pbut.

Accepting Prophets means obeying God . Rejecting any Prophet means rejecting God's command and rebelling against Him . Pharaon refused to accept Moses pbuh , Namrud refused to accept Abraham pbuh --they were proud and arrogant .

So , we believe that to be a Muslim i.e to get ticket to heaven , it's a must to declare that : there is no god but God and Muhammed pbuh is His slave and messenger.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/Peace





I tried

Let me try again . Accepting Muhammed pbuh means accepting ALL Prophets pbut ; one can't say that ok , I accept Muhammed pbuh as the last Prophet but reject Jesus pbuh .

as the Last Prophet pbuh came from God Almighty - after his arrival it's a must for all to accept him as it was a must for people to accept the previous Prophets like Abraham , Moses , Jesus pbut.

Accepting Prophets means obeying God . Rejecting any Prophet means rejecting God's command and rebelling against Him . Pharaon refused to accept Moses pbuh , Namrud refused to accept Abraham pbuh --they were proud and arrogant .

So , we believe that to be a Muslim i.e to get ticket to heaven , it's a must to declare that : there is no god but God and Muhammed pbuh is His slave and messenger.

OK. But my question isn't about accept Muhammad (pbuh) instead of Jesus. I understand that if you accept one prophet you accept all. But why do I need to give testimony about any prophets? Why is it not enough to accept that Allah is God and there is none other and live according to that testimony? Why is an additional testimony needed with regard to the messenger? Why is the messenger made (seemingly, at least to me) as important as the one whom the message is about?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

What do you mean by, "the religion of all the prophets...is the same"? .....

they taught to worship one God only without any diety / partner.

In what ways is the message of the new prophet different than the previous prophet(s)?

main message was same - God is one. Some rules were different such as alcohol was allowed earlier , during the time of Muhammed pbuh it was banned.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.. But why do I need to give testimony about any prophets? Why is it not enough to accept that Allah is God

because Allah sent Prophets pbut. To obey Allah , u have to accept all Prophets pbut sent by Him . If u refuse any Prophet , then u can't claim that you are obeying Him.

 

[جوري]

OK. But my question isn't about accept Muhammad (pbuh) instead of Jesus. I understand that if you accept one prophet you accept all. But why do I need to give testimony about any prophets? Why is it not enough to accept that Allah is God and there is none other and live according to that testimony? Why is an additional testimony needed with regard to the messenger? Why is the messenger made (seemingly, at least to me) as important as the one whom the message is about?

To deny one messenger is to deny all the messengers to deny messengers is to deny the message, and to deny the message is to deny God! --
we see evidence of this in the Quran in the following verse for instance:

كَذَّبَتْ عَادٌ الْمُرْسَلِينَ {123}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 26:123] (The tribe of) A'ad denied the messengers (of Allah).

Now the people of A'ad were sent only ONE messenger (prophet Hud), so why is it messengers in the plural? that is because to deny the one you were sent, is to deny all that came before him!
Prophet Mohammad being sent for all of man-kind denotes that if you deny his message, you also deny the message of Jesus, Moses, Hud, Enoch, etc. and as such you may simply declare your kufr with no pretenses. If you believe in God, but not his message then what is the point? 'tis to say that smoking is bad and you believe that but you go on smoking anyway.

Islam isn't a religious of whims.. it is the doctrine of God for all man kind.


all the best!
[/SIZE]

 

[Grace Seeker]

main message was same - God is one. Some rules were different such as alcohol was allowed earlier , during the time of Muhammed pbuh it was banned.

The main message of Judaism is:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (Deuteronomy 6:4-5)

All Jews, even to this day, consider that to be the main message delivered by Prophet Moses. When he spelled out the individual commandments given from God, the first of those was "You shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3). This all sounds very much like what you are saying. So, given the sameness of the main message, does that mean you are saying that Judaism and Islam are the same?

 

[جوري]

The main message of Judaism is: All Jews, even to this day, consider that to be the main message delivered by Prophet Moses. When he spelled out the individual commandments given from God, the first of those was "You shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3). This all sounds very much like what you are saying. So, given the sameness of the main message, does that mean you are saying that Judaism and Islam are the same?

All Abrahamic religions before their corruption are exactly the same.. Attest that your God is one.. Now, that faith is established, what next?

You graduate as an engineer and the world cheers, everyone attests to your degree, and applauds you, now what? do you stick your title on the wall and gaze at it or do you do something with the knowledge you've acquired?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

The main message of Judaism is: All Jews, even to this day, consider that to be the main message delivered by Prophet Moses. .....you are saying that Judaism and Islam are the same?

We believe that God sent Prophets to all nations . They delivered the same message - God is one without partner. So , Judaism , Chrsitianity , Islam have got the same message of God through Prophets pbut.

Jews refused to accept several Prophets of God Almighty including Jesus and Muhammed pbut ; Christians refused to accept Muhammed pbuh but they got the same message from God . We believe that they also got the message that obey God and His messenger.

 

[Grace Seeker]

If you believe in God, but not his message then what is the point? 'tis to say that smoking is bad and you believe that but you go on smoking anyway.

Islam isn't a religious of whims.. it is the doctrine of God for all man kind.

But, I am not talking about a religion of whims. I am talking about believing in Allah, an not associating any partners. I am talking about submitting to Allah, wholly and completely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. I am talking about one who declares allegiance to Allah, gladly gives zakat, who abstains from alcohol and who dresses modestly, who fasts during Ramadan.

I am talking about one who picked up a Qur'an, read these words:

1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;

3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;

4. Master of the Day of Judgment.

5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

6. Show us the straight way,

7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
​

And now prays 5 times a day to the God he understands this passage to be speaking of, and does so saying: "Allah is great. I declare there is no god but Allah."

But he lives on a isolated island that had been cut off from the world until a copy of the Qur'an washed up on shore and was found by this man. On his own, without any leading from anyone else, he has led all the rest of his neighbors to join him in the above things as well. But when he has testified with regard to his faith, all he has ever said is, "I declare that there is no god except Allah." He has never said anything negative about Muhammad, but he has just never considered he needed to say anything about God's messenger as long as he proclaimed his faith in the subject of that message. So, he has never said anything about Muhammad at all (good or bad).

What I'm hearing said here is that because our mythical follower of Allah has testified only about his faith in Allah and not Allah's messenger as well, that he cannot be saved.

Am I hearing your collective voice correctly?

 

[جوري]

But, I am not talking about a religion of whims. I am talking about believing in Allah, an not associating any partners. I am talking about submitting to Allah, wholly and completely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. I am talking about one who declares allegiance to Allah, gladly gives zakat, who abstains from alcohol and who dresses modestly, who fasts during Ramadan.

I am talking about one who picked up a Qur'an, read these words:

1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;

3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;

4. Master of the Day of Judgment.

5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

6. Show us the straight way,

7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
​

And now prays 5 times a day to the God he understands this passage to be speaking of, and does so saying: "Allah is great. I declare there is no god but Allah."

But he lives on a isolated island that had been cut off from the world until a copy of the Qur'an washed up on shore and was found by this man. On his own, without any leading from anyone else, he has led all the rest of his neighbors to join him in the above things as well. But when he has testified with regard to his faith, all he has ever said is, "I declare that there is no god except Allah." He has never said anything negative about Muhammad, but he has just never considered he needed to say anything about God's messenger as long as he proclaimed his faith in the subject of that message. So, he has never said anything about Muhammad at all (good or bad).

What I'm hearing said here is that because our mythical follower of Allah has testified only about his faith in Allah and not Allah's messenger as well, that he cannot be saved.

Am I hearing your collective voice correctly?

Are you talking about Quran only sect?
to be a Muslim you must follow the Quran and sunnah.. you can't exempt yourself of sunnah (as brought by the prophet) and still be called a Muslim, I mean it is common sense, why do you even ask such q's?

at the end of time when Quran and Islam is lifted from the world, even they who merely say Allah Allah, shall be granted heaven according to a hadith I read but I can't locate at the moment.. but that is a different time and place and circumstance!

Now we have the Quran and sunnah!

peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/Peace

Jews refused to accept several Prophets of God Almighty including Jesus and Muhammed pbut ; Christians refused to accept Muhammed pbuh but they got the same message from God . We believe that they also got the message that obey God and His messenger.

This would only be true of Jews post Jesus. Would you consider the Judaism of Judas Maccabees (200 years before the time of Jesus) to be the same as Islam?

We believe that God sent Prophets to all nations.

Including the natives of the American continents?

 

[جوري]

This would only be true of Jews post Jesus. Would you consider the Judaism of Judas Maccabees (200 years before the time of Jesus) to be the same as Islam?

How do you define a prophet or a messenger? someone who is a warrior and at the same time passes decrees to forbid religious practices can't be considered under either of those categories, of course given your beliefs in such folks as saul, I don't know what your standards are..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Maccabeus

Including the natives of the American continents?

every Ummah was sent their own messengers (prior) to Islam.. Islam is meant for all man/kind hence we have a duty to offer da3wa to those who have never heard of it.. and God doesn't punish a people unless he has sent a messenger, surely after being here for so many years you must have come across such a verse and a knowledge that some folks who weren't given the message in this life time will start their trials on the day of recompense?!

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

Are you talking about Quran only sect?
to be a Muslim you must follow the Quran and sunnah.. you can't exempt yourself of sunnah (as brought by the prophet) and still be called a Muslim, I mean it is common sense, why do you even ask such q's?

No. I'm just trying to find out what it is that Muslims feel is required to be saved. And I'm pushing to be clear that what people say as their initial answer is in fact what is really believed. You see, I was told earlier that it was the balance of one's deeds. But the Qur'an tells me that the deeds of those who disbelieve are in vain (cf 47:1). So, if it is deeds, it surely isn't deeds alone. And others have corrected that, and made the focus on one's testimony.

I'm now curious about this aspect of faith that says that one is testify to one's faith in Allah and that one does not to associate partners with Allah. And yet, to do exactly that and to simply declare faith in Allah (coupled with appropriate deeds) and do so without associating that faith with any partner appears to be deemed unsatisfactory unless that testimony also includes a place for Muhammad.

It is as if one cannot express faith in Allah independent of Muhammad. And I just want to be sure that I am understanding everyone correctly on this.

 

[Grace Seeker]

How do you define a prophet or a messenger? someone who is a warrior and at the same time passes decrees to forbid religious practices can't be considered under either of those categories, of course given your beliefs in such folks as saul, I don't know what your standards are..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Maccabeus

I'm not considering Judas Maccabees to be a prophet or messenger. I'm just asking Muslim Woman, given her previous statements, if she would see the Judaism that he believe (in one God, without partners) as the same as Islam.

every Ummah was sent their own messengers (prior) to Islam.

So, the answer to my question with regard to natives of the American continents is a simple "YES". Based on what you have said here, prior to Islam, every people group, every indigenious tribe, would have been sent their own messenger.

Besides Muhammad, and those that were Jews, or previously mentioned in the Bible what other messengers to these other Ummah's is Islam able to name? And to what Ummah were they sent?

 

[جوري]

No. I'm just trying to find out what it is that Muslims feel is required to be saved.

No one is saved unless by God's mercy, and Allah swt has willed upon himself the law of grace and mercy!

And I'm pushing to be clear that what people say as their initial answer is in fact what is really believed. You see, I was told earlier that it was the balance of one's deeds. But the Qur'an tells me that the deeds of those who disbelieve are in vain (cf 47:1). So, if it is deeds, it surely isn't deeds alone. And others have corrected that, and made the focus on one's testimony.

unlike with christianity where all you have to do is declare your love for Jesus and spend your life at hooters wearing a cross and being saved-- in Islam it is important that your testimony reflect your lifestyle.. you can't for instance say you love someone and beat the crap out of them every night.. it is common sense.. if you love God, you will follow his commandments.. indeed no one goes to heaven or hell because of their deeds but through God's mercy:


Sahih Muslim , Book 039, Number 6761:

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There is none whose deeds alone would entitle him to get into Paradise. It was said to him: And, Allah’s Messenger, not even you?… Thereupon he said: Not even I, but that my Lord wraps me in Mercy.
​

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 76, Number 470:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle said, “The deeds of anyone of you will not save you (from the (Hell) Fire).” They said, “Even you (will not be saved by your deeds), O Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “No, even I (will not be saved) unless and until Allah bestows His Mercy on me. Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle, moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (Paradise).”
​

I'm now curious about this aspect of faith that says that one is testify to one's faith in Allah and that one does not to associate partners with Allah. And yet, to do exactly that and to simply declare faith in Allah (coupled with appropriate deeds) and do so without associating that faith with any partner appears to be deemed unsatisfactory unless that testimony also includes a place for Muhammad.

Well as you can see from the ahadiths above that you are wrong, further, you only mention the first pillar of Islam, whilst Islam is built upon five pillars!

It is as if one cannot express faith in Allah independent of Muhammad. And I just want to be sure that I am understanding everyone correctly on this.

Islam is a package deal not a cut here and chop there deal.. Again, this isn't Christianity where you simply convene and by vote decide you can eat pigs.. It is an entire life time based on the five pillars!

and Allah swt knows best

 

[جوري]

I'm not considering Judas Maccabees to be a prophet or messenger. I'm just asking Muslim Woman, given her previous statements, if she would see the Judaism that he believe (in one God, without partners) as the same as Islam.

He Maccabees? according to the article he did away with religious edicts so how can anyone view this the same as Islam? Religion isn't a mere title as stated in my prior thread it is a life time commitment.. such commitment entails study and obedience to God should you choose to subscribe to the religion. YES Obedience.. you don't sit down and decide to do away with a commandment because you deem it dated.. for instance homosexuality, if it is a sin then, it is a sin now, and nothing the 'scientific community or gay advocates' can do to change said commandment.. you must restrain yourself from lowly desires if you truly seek the love of your lord!
which you have a free will to walk away from.. again, an all or none package!

So, the answer to my question with regard to natives of the American continents is a simple "YES". Based on what you have said here, prior to Islam, every people group, every indigenious tribe, would have been sent their own messenger.

I have no reason to believe that they would be excluded!

Besides Muhammad, and those that were Jews, or previously mentioned in the Bible what other messengers to these other Ummah's is Islam able to name? And to what Ummah were they sent?

slamic theology recognises as many as 124,000 prophets.[2] The Qur'an identifies 25 prophets by name, starting with Adam and ending with Muhammad.[3] Five of them (sometimes known as Ulul Azmi or the Imams — literally: "leaders" — of the Rasuls) receive the highest reverence for their perseverance and unusually strong commitment to God in the face of great suffering, namely[citation needed]:

1. Nuh (Noah)
2. Ibrahim (Abraham)
3. Musa (Moses)
4. Isa (Jesus)
5. Muhammad

Contents

[hide]

• 1 Etymology
• 2 Prophets and messengers in the Bible
• 3 Prophets and messengers in the Qur'an
  • 3.1 Distinguishing between prophets and messengers
  • 3.2 The status of prophets
  • 3.3 Jesus as an apostle
  • 3.4 Prophets and scriptures
  • 3.5 The prophets and Muhammad
  • 3.6 The scope of the prophetic mission
    • 3.6.1 The purpose of messengers
    • 3.6.2 The relationship between messengers, prophets, the Announcement, and the Sender
      • 3.6.2.1 Nabi, Naba
      • 3.6.2.2 Rasul, Mursil
      • 3.6.2.3 All together
      • 3.6.2.4 Summary
  • 3.7 The reception of the prophets
• 4 Table of prophets in the Qur'an
• 5 Other prophets
  • 5.1 Maryam mother of 'Isa
• 6 See also
• 7 Notes

surprisingly from wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam

all the best