Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Grace Seeker]

if the sinner repents sincerely , then ans is yes .

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

The way some of the posts in that other thread read, it seemed to me that people were saying that even if Allah wanted to forgive, it still depended on what these other involved parties did. And, to me, that sounded a whole lot like holding Allah hostage to the will of human beings, rather than "Allah knows best".

 

[alcurad]

being murdered is a wrong against the person killed, not against God specifically, hence God decrees punishment to any who wrong their fellow humans regardless of their 'repentance', for how do you repent out of a murder? the repentance is enough in some cases for example a political dissident who in his quest for 'justice' etc had to take the lives of the opposing side if it comes to war even though both believe their cause is just, but that is war rather than simply murder.

in short, God's hands are not tied, rather he decreed justice, and if justice entails punishment for murder then repentance only alleviates a part of that crime, but not the crime itself.

this is of course my opinion, and I could be wrong but this was my impression.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Does Islam recognize a difference between a "sin" -- a wrong committed against God's will for us and a "transgression" -- an act that brings about injustice, wrong doing or abuse of others in human relationships?

 

[Asiyah3]

Here are some hadiths regarding transgression that I felt like quoting.

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever has wronged his brother with regard to his honour or anything else, let him seek his forgiveness today, before there will be no dinar and no dirham [i.e., the Day of Resurrection], when if he has any good deeds (hasanaat), some of his good deeds will be taken and given to the one who was wronged, commensurate with the wrong that he did, and if he does not have any good deeds, some of the bad deeds (sayi’aat) of the one who was wronged will be taken and thrown onto him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2269).

And it was also narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “All rights will be restored on the Day of Resurrection, until even the hornless sheep will settle its score with the one that has horns.” Narrated by Muslim (4679).

Narrated Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Al-Harith: from Abu Salama bin 'Abdur-Rahman who had a dispute with some people on a piece of land, and so he went to 'Aisha and told her about it. She said, "O Abu Salama, avoid the land, for Allah's Apostle said, 'Any person who takes even a span of land unjustly, his neck shall be encircled with it down seven earths.' "

 

[Predator]

If the person commits a sin and repents from it, then Allah accepts his repentance if it meets the conditions of sincere repentance. Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {Say: "O 'Ibâdî (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allâh, verily Allâh forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.} [39: 53].
But if the person dies before repenting, then Shirk, polytheism is the only sin that Allah does not forgive. The other sins are under the Will of Allah. He might pardon him as He might punish him for a period and then let him enter Paradise. Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {Verily! Allâh forgives not (the sin of) setting up partners in worship with Him, but He forgives whom he pleases sins other than that, …} [4: 116].

 

[Grace Seeker]

I'm going to ask my question again because the above responses didn't really get at the issue I was asking about: Does Islam recognize a difference between sins against God and transgressions against people?



For instance, if I steal from you, I've committed not just one, but two wrongs.
1) I've injured you by taking from you something that is yours and that I have no right to possess.
2) I've also broken God's will in behaving in a way different then he would have me behave.

I can ask God to forgiven me for breaking his commands and he might see into my heart and know that I am truly sorry and will never do such a thing again, and on that basis decide that there is no impediment keeping me from joining him in Jannah (is that the Islamic word for Paradise?) upon my death. But until I go and apologize to you and seek reconcilation with you by making restitution or being granted your own forgiveness we are not going to live reconciled lives.

Or it could be that what I took meant nothing to you and you didn't even notice it, maybe an apple from your tree that you weren't going to pick anyway. So, you never harbor a grudge against me, and when I mention it to you your response is "Think nothing of it." But, I never own up to God what I've done and never repent of it as something that he would not have me do, however little it means to other people.

Can you see how the nature of a transgression against a person and a sin against God are not always going to be one and the same? And thus God can forgive us of sins of which a human would not, and vice versa.

And so my question has more to do with whether Islam recognizes this reality, or if somehow it connects God's response to people's requests for forgiveness to the way that humans respond? That is especially what I was seeing in the discussion of the forgiveness of murderers.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

....
For instance, if I steal from you.......I can ask God to forgiven me ...

related fatwa :
How does one who has taken people's property unlawfully repent when he does not have the money to return them?

...The repentance of this person would be by stopping doing this injustice and regretting for having done it and being determined not to do it again while giving back the rights to its owners. If he has no money to repay the rights then it is a debt which he is obliged to repay when he becomes able to do so unless he seeks the forgiveness of the people who have rights on him and they forgive him. For more benefit, please refer to Fatwa 86374.


In case they don’t agree to forgive him and he is unable to give their rights back to them, then he should perform good deeds as much as possible especially seeking Allaah’s forgiveness and supplicating Him. It might be that Allaah will repay these rights on his behalf.

Allaah Knows best.

http://www.islamweb.net/VER2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=130132&Option=FatwaId


Hadith about the transgression against other's properties

...Whoever has done wrong to anyone in terms of honour or property, then he must amend his wrongdoing (by returning other's rights or asking for being absolved) before a Day comes when no Dinar or Dirham (money) are to count.

On that Day (of Recompense), if the wrongdoer has a record of good deeds, he will lose a proportion of them- equivalent in amount to the wrongdoing he did to the oppressed- to the favour of the latter.


If otherwise he does not have a record of good deeds enough to compensate for his misdeeds, he will be burdened with a proportionate amount of sins from the record of the oppressed

http://www.islamweb.net/VER2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?Option=FatwaId&lang=E&Id=86374

 

[Woodrow]

I'm going to ask my question again because the above responses didn't really get at the issue I was asking about: Does Islam recognize a difference between sins against God and transgressions against people?

Yes, but it is sometime difficult to separate one from the other. While it is easy to understand what is a sin against God(swt) it is not always clear as to separate a transgression against people and the sin against God(swt) as the transgression as the transgression will carry with it a sin against God(swt) However, the repentance for transgressing against a person can be seen in the forms of restitution , fines, legal penalties etc. The repentance for the sin is a personal matter between the sinner and God(swt) as only God(swt) will know if the person is repenting out of sincerity. You can give restitution to a person without the sincerity being needed for forgiveness, And you can give restitution with sincerity yet the person may not sincerely give forgiveness.

For instance, if I steal from you, I've committed not just one, but two wrongs.
1) I've injured you by taking from you something that is yours and that I have no right to possess.
2) I've also broken God's will in behaving in a way different then he would have me behave.

I agree with that

I can ask God to forgiven me for breaking his commands and he might see into my heart and know that I am truly sorry and will never do such a thing again, and on that basis decide that there is no impediment keeping me from joining him in Jannah (is that the Islamic word for Paradise?) upon my death. But until I go and apologize to you and seek reconcilation with you by making restitution or being granted your own forgiveness we are not going to live reconciled lives.

Again I agree

Or it could be that what I took meant nothing to you and you didn't even notice it, maybe an apple from your tree that you weren't going to pick anyway. So, you never harbor a grudge against me, and when I mention it to you your response is "Think nothing of it." But, I never own up to God what I've done and never repent of it as something that he would not have me do, however little it means to other people.[/QUOTE}

Still no disagreement

Can you see how the nature of a transgression against a person and a sin against God are not always going to be one and the same? And thus God can forgive us of sins of which a human would not, and vice versa.

I agree

And so my question has more to do with whether Islam recognizes this reality, or if somehow it connects God's response to people's requests for forgiveness to the way that humans respond? That is especially what I was seeing in the discussion of the forgiveness of murderers.

The judgment of Allaah(swt) alone is what will be the final say as to if a person goes to Jannah or hellfire. However, we have a concept very similar to Purgatory, In that we will be punished for unforgiven transgressions we have committed against others, but this punishment will not keep us out of Jannah and is a debt we will pay off. However, it is far better if we pay this debt while we are alive and enter death without need to pay it then.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

..
maybe an apple from your tree that you weren't going to pick anyway. .

In Islam , there are major and minor sins. Blasphemy is the most major sin and if one dies without repentance, punishment is eternal fire.

For a minor sin like taking an apple from one's tree , one wont' be thrown in to fire forever . But one must not intentionally does minor sins regularly ' cause it may lead him/her to commit major sins.

And Allah knows Best.

 

[Uthman]

I think Grace Seeker's question is related to the conditions for the acceptance of one's repentance by Allah which are:

1. The person must leave the sin (i.e. they cannot repent whilst they are in the process of committing the sin)
2. They must feel remorseful for having committed the sin
3. They must make a firm and sincere intention never to commit the sin again

And there is a fourth condition which is:

4. If it relates to the rights of another human being, then that right must be returned. For example, if they steal from somebody else, then they must return the item.

All of these conditions should be satisfied if one's repentance to Allah is to be accepted.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I think Grace Seeker's question is related to the conditions for the acceptance of one's repentance by Allah

Thanks. All three answers were helpful. But, yes, you most closely understood what I was asking.

Thank-you, all, for being instruments of Allah's guidance.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I'm not sure how to phrase this question so that it makes since in an Islamic context. So, I'm going to phrase it in "Christianese" if you will, and ask that you first tell me how it best translates into Islam, and then share how it might be answered in Islam.

The question is: "What must one do to be saved?"

I say that it is in "Christianese", because I'm not even sure that in Islam one talks about "salvation" in the same way that one does in Christianity. In Christianity, salvation is about more than just going to heaven when one dies. That is, of course, included within the concept, but does not fully address the concept. But I'm not wanting to discuss Christianity, I'm wanting to better understand Islam. So, is one "saved from", "saved for", "saved to", or "saved by" something/someone in Islam? And again the primary question is, "What must one do to be saved?"

 

[Predator]

I'm not sure how to phrase this question so that it makes since in an Islamic context. So, I'm going to phrase it in "Christianese" if you will, and ask that you first tell me how it best translates into Islam, and then share how it might be answered in Islam.

The question is: "What must one do to be saved?"

To be saved , one must do his best more good deeds and avoid all the major sins and keep minor sins to a minimum
More information on the major sins can be found in the below page

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/major_sins.htm

 

[Grace Seeker]

To be saved , one must do his best more good deeds and avoid all the major sins and keep minor sins to a minimum

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/major_sins.htm

Thank-you.

Do all agree with this? The way I understand this response, in Islam it is all about what one does and doesn't do. So the answer might be phrase: "Do good, don't do bad, and keep the balance sheet positive and you will be saved."?

Perhaps there are other responses?

 

[aadil77]

Thank-you.

Do all agree with this? The way I understand this response, in Islam it is all about what one does and doesn't do. So the answer might be phrase: "Do good, don't do bad, and keep the balance sheet positive and you will be saved."?

Perhaps there are other responses?

If doing good includes having the right beliefs, then yes thats about it

 

[Grace Seeker]

If doing good includes having the right beliefs, then yes thats about it

I expect that for Islam doing good would include right beliefs (like accepting Muhammad to be Allah's prophet) and doing bad would include wrong beliefs (like associating partners with Allah). And as I understand it, some of those would have corollaries to them, such that anyone who accepted Muhammad as the prophet of Allah would therefore also accept the Qur'an to be God's message to humanity. And some would be mutually exclusive such that if anyone accepted the Qur'an to be God's message, then one could not truthfully say that and at the same time associate partners with Allah.

Further, with regard to the importance of keeping a positive balance, I also understand to recognize that not all deed (good or bad) are created the same. Therefore, it is not just the quantitative number of deeds (good and bad) that must be in positive balance, but the nature and quality of those deeds must produce a positive balance. The corollary to this is that some things are so bad that there is no amount of good deeds that would atone for them -- shirk being the number one example of this.

Are there any other things that cannot be atoned for? And is "atone" even the appropriate word to use in Islam for making someone that was bad and out of Allah's favor right with Allah again?

 

[MuslimahBarb]

I'm wanting to better understand Islam. So, is one "saved from", "saved for", "saved to", or "saved by" something/someone in Islam? And again the primary question is, "What must one do to be saved?"

My husband brought this thread and the following hadith to my attention and I wanted to share it. I believe this is the cornerstone of our Islamic faith andis what separates us from the unbelievers.


Narrated Anas bin Malik: "Once Mu'adh was along with Allah's Apostle as a companion rider. Allah's Apostle said, "O Mu'adh bin Jabal." Mu'adh replied, "Labbaik and Sa'daik. O Allah's Apostle!" Again the Prophet said, "O Mu'adh!" Mu'adh said thrice, "Labbaik and Sa'daik, O Allah's Apostle!" Allah's Apostle said, "There is none who testifies sincerely that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is his Apostle, except that Allah, will save him from the Hell-fire." Mu'adh said, "O Allah's Apostle ! Should I not inform the people about it so that they may have glad tidings?" He replied, "When the people hear about it, they will solely depend on it." Then Mu'adh narrated the above-mentioned Hadith just before his death, being afraid of committing sin (by not telling the knowledge). (Bukhari Vol. 1, Hadith130)

 

[Grace Seeker]

B]There is none who testifies sincerely that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is his Apostle, except that Allah, will save him from the Hell-fire[/B]

So, it is "saved from". Salvation in Islam is all about avoiding something.

Also two things are required according to this hadith:
1) testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.
2) testify that Muhammad (pbuh) is his Apostle.


Not to be picky, but #1 doesn't actually say to worship Allah. Instead it says to testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. There is a story that it is reported Jesus told about two sons who were asked by their father to work in the family vineyard. The first son said, "YES", but didn't actually go and work. The second said, "NO", but do go and work. Then Jesus asked which of these two sons did the will of his father. And the crowd said the second. Jesus then encouraged them to do more than just talk about God, but to actually practice the righteousness that God seeks. Surely, a Muslim most do more than just testify about Allah's right to be worshipped, he/she should also actually be worshipped? Maybe that is implied in the Hadith, but I don't see it articulated. Why is it not?

Second question arising from the Hadith, with two parts itself. Why is testifying about Muhammad's role put on par with testifying about Allah?
a) If I read correctly, this would mean that those who followed Islam before the coming of Muhammad and who both testified that none other than Allah were worthy of worship and worshipped only Allah would also have to testify with regard to Muhammad, but how could they?
b) Even if those before Muhammad were someone grandfathered in, I still don't see why one must acknowledge Muhammad personally? I can imagine one who stumbles upon the Qu'ran. Reads the Surah with regard to Allah, and makes such a testimony. But his life is cut short and he never gets around to learning about Muhammad. He just accepts what he has read as true and lives by it, but doesn't make any testimony about Muhammad. Muhammad doesn't keep one from Hell, only Allah does. Why is it necessary to make this testimony about Muhammad?

 

[YusufNoor]

So, it is "saved from". Salvation in Islam is all about avoiding something.

Also two things are required according to this hadith:
1) testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.
2) testify that Muhammad (pbuh) is his Apostle.


Not to be picky, but #1 doesn't actually say to worship Allah. Instead it says to testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. There is a story that it is reported Jesus told about two sons who were asked by their father to work in the family vineyard. The first son said, "YES", but didn't actually go and work. The second said, "NO", but do go and work. Then Jesus asked which of these two sons did the will of his father. And the crowd said the second. Jesus then encouraged them to do more than just talk about God, but to actually practice the righteousness that God seeks. Surely, a Muslim most do more than just testify about Allah's right to be worshipped, he/she should also actually be worshipped? Maybe that is implied in the Hadith, but I don't see it articulated. Why is it not?

Second question arising from the Hadith, with two parts itself. Why is testifying about Muhammad's role put on par with testifying about Allah?
a) If I read correctly, this would mean that those who followed Islam before the coming of Muhammad and who both testified that none other than Allah were worthy of worship and worshipped only Allah would also have to testify with regard to Muhammad, but how could they?
b) Even if those before Muhammad were someone grandfathered in, I still don't see why one must acknowledge Muhammad personally? I can imagine one who stumbles upon the Qu'ran. Reads the Surah with regard to Allah, and makes such a testimony. But his life is cut short and he never gets around to learning about Muhammad. He just accepts what he has read as true and lives by it, but doesn't make any testimony about Muhammad. Muhammad doesn't keep one from Hell, only Allah does. Why is it necessary to make this testimony about Muhammad?

you misunderstand the word testify. it doesn't mean just say with your lips, it means to not associate partners with Allah in ANY way. this would be inclusive of words, worship and all other actions.

a SHADEED, one who has been martyred, has in effect, given testimony of his belief. a shadeed is also one who testifies.

unlike in most versions of Christianity, where having the "correct belief" is the most important "condition" of the religion, in Islam the correct belief must have accompanying actions. ignoring the 5 pillars, for instance, can take you right out of the fold of Islam, ie, if you declare that praying 5 times a day is not necessary and thus you don't perform them, you remove yourself from Islam. if you claim Jesus is god, you have remove yourself from the fold. praying to someone other than Allah, including the Prophet, PBUH, takes you out as well.

:wa:

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

,,. Why is it necessary to make this testimony about Muhammad?

Whenever any Prophet pbuh came , it was a must for the people to accept him . Rejecting any Prophet pbuh means rejecting God's will and command .

Accpeting Muhammed pbuh means accepting all Prophets from the first to the last one . Anyone who rejects any Prophet is not a Muslim.

Those who came before Muhammed pbuh , if they worshipped one God only and obeyed the Prohet who came to them , God Willing they will find themselves in heaven.


And God knows Best.