Islam has copied (say the Christians and the Jews)

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Islam the only religion

All the Prophets were Muslims,

they all worshipped the one God,

remembered the Day of Judgement, believed in Paradise and Hell,

Sacrificed animals

Fasted

Bowed down in prayer (which even Prophet Jesus peace be upon him had done).

AS stated in the "Collapse of these countries" thread

Allah always sends a Prophet to convey the message, all the messages are the same to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was sent, as obviously Christianity could not tell the Arabs to repent as they were committing idol worship and the Jews were not remembering the next world. Actually they were happy to live with idol worshippers, they did not tell idol worshippers to repent.

1. The Christians/Jews say that we have copied off their texts, when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was illiterate, and NO ONE at the time accused him of copying off the Jews and the Christians.

2. Why shouldn't Allah tell us of the stories of the Prophets Ibrahim, Noah, Lut peace be upon them etc? They belong to him. Why are the Christians complaining anyway, they are committing idol worship. Even Allah has said the best people to lay clam to Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him are the ones that follow after him more;-

-we worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell (which the Christians are committing idol worship and the Jews are leaving out Hell)

-we sacrifice as he did,

-we fast,

- the Kaaba in Mecca is actually built by Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him.

3. Also how did we get the story of King Solomon peace be upon him controlling the winds and the Jinn? As this was now recently found out to be left out of the bible.

4. Obviously if it was left to the Christians and the Jews, they would never have succeeded in finishing idol worship and lewd and drunk behaviour in the middle east. Actually they had plenty of time to prove themselves, so why did they not sort out idol worship before Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had arrived? They cannot say that we copied off them, as we would never have been successful in sorting out idol worship.

5. Islam is doing what Christianity and Judaism could not do, tell people to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, in Paradise and Hell. They are not going to get a Prophet now, Prophet Jesus peace be upon him will only be coming AFTER these countries have finished (which even the Christians have agreed to).

Islam has been sufficient to teach the whole world, even the Christians have accepted that "God" has been talked about more because of Islam. They are responding back to Muslims as people used to do aforetime, by torturing, and even the masses at the time of Pharoah turned a blind eye, and even though the public knew that Bush supported torture, they still voted for him etc.

6. If Islam was not in this world, its not hard to see that the Christians and the Jews would have failed talking about Allah, remembering the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell. They would have just build more holiday resorts in the Middle East etc. So Islam is successful.

7. People can argue why Islam is successful is because we had supported the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. But the

- Christians failed to protect the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him when they tried to kill him. As they were more afraid of the authorities then Allah. Even though he did a lot for people, and created a bird out of clay and by Allah's permission it came alive. People were still more afraid of -the authorities.

At least if they Muslims were there, we would have fought for Prophet Jesus peace be upon him, and he will be having our support when he comes back.

-the Jews were treating the Prophets to help them live in this world, and did on their own records irritated the Prophet Moses peace be upon him. They even after all that Allah had done for them, took to worshipping the cow idol. They are blaming Prophet Aaron peace be upon him, just to try and make themselves look better. But the fact is he never told people to worship the cow idol, as stated in the Quran. Also there is no excuse to idol worship. It was a sinful act. They even told the Prophet Moses peace be upon him to fight for them so they could enter the town so he left them to wander. Even they treated King David peace be upon him poorly as they tried to oust him as leader.

8. All the Prophets submitted to Allah's will, they never changed the message of Allah. Which clearly the Christians and the Jews have done;-

-Why are not the Christians worshipping the one God? As did Prophet Noah, Lut, David, Jesus, Solomon peace be upon them etc

-Why are not the Jews mentioning Hell? As did Prophets Noah, Lut, David, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Solomon peace be upon them etc

-Why aren't they all sacrificing animals (the Jews say they will later on, but still it makes what they are eating today unlawful)

-The Jews said they are to test Prophets (which is a terrible thing to say as they are the best), who are they to test Prophets? If that is the case why don't they tell everyone how they tested Prophet Moses peace be upon him? How did they test King David peace be upon him etc

-the Jews are willing to accept females to be "Prophetesses" ie Sarah. But they have a hard time accepting Prophets Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon him? What did she do anyway preach the message? No.

9. We Muslims as above are following after the Prophets and the Jews and the Christians have corrupted themselves. We are closer to all the Prophets then they will ever be for their idol worship and rejecting Hell and holding on to the life of this world.

10. Miracles they ask for, they say they will only believe if a Prophet has performed a miracle, if that was the case then why are they corrupt??? Why are they not all believers then, and now?? If miracles truly worked, then why did they take the cow idol to worship when Prophet Moses peace be upon him was away? After the parting of the red sea, the plagues of Egypt??

The magicians at Pharoah's court did a better job then the Jews who took to cow idol worship. The magicians feared Allah and did not beg Pharaoh for leniency, they stood their ground and had their hands and feet chopped off from alternative sides, and made it to Paradise.

The Jews treat their test of endurance, when actually they were to repent as they had been clearly been treating Prophets poorly.

11. The Christians claim that the Prophets are Christians when;-

Prophet Noah peace be upon him would NOT be accepting the Christians for their idol worship,

Prophet Moses peace be upon him would NOT be accepting the Christians for their idol worship. etc

 
bump in reference to RIP thread.
 
h-n said:
Islam the only religion

All the Prophets were Muslims,

they all worshipped the one God,

remembered the Day of Judgement, believed in Paradise and Hell,

Sacrificed animals

Fasted

Bowed down in prayer (which even Prophet Jesus peace be upon him had done).

AS stated in the "Collapse of these countries" thread

Allah always sends a Prophet to convey the message, all the messages are the same to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was sent, as obviously Christianity could not tell the Arabs to repent as they were committing idol worship and the Jews were not remembering the next world. Actually they were happy to live with idol worshippers, they did not tell idol worshippers to repent.

1. The Christians/Jews say that we have copied off their texts, when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was illiterate, and NO ONE at the time accused him of copying off the Jews and the Christians.

2. Why shouldn't Allah tell us of the stories of the Prophets Ibrahim, Noah, Lut peace be upon them etc? They belong to him. Why are the Christians complaining anyway, they are committing idol worship. Even Allah has said the best people to lay clam to Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him are the ones that follow after him more;-

-we worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell (which the Christians are committing idol worship and the Jews are leaving out Hell)

-we sacrifice as he did,

-we fast,

- the Kaaba in Mecca is actually built by Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him.

3. Also how did we get the story of King Solomon peace be upon him controlling the winds and the Jinn? As this was now recently found out to be left out of the bible.
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Hello, h-n. Peace.

No one (as far as I know) claims that Muhammed could read and copied texts that he had read. Rather, it is believed that he came into contact with various stories by word of mouth.

There would be no serious problem if the Quranic stories matched those found in the Bible but of course they don't. Often there are conflicts and sometimes these concern major issues of doctrine where Islam and Christianity differ in their teachings.

The story of King Solomon controlling Jinn, etc. is not found in the Bible but a most similar story does appear in the Second Targum on Esther, which is printed in the Miqraoth Gedoloth. This story is, of course, considered to be no more than a fantasy legend concerning things that happened at the meeting of Solomon with the Queen of Sheba.


The account reads:
"Again, when King Solomon's heart was merry with his wine, he commanded to bring the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air and the creeping things of the earth and the jinns and the spirits and the night-goblins to dance before him, in order to show his greatness to all the kings who were prostrating themselves before him. And the king's scribes summoned them by their names, and they all assembled and came unto him, except the prisoners and except the captives and except the man who took charge of them. At that hour the cock of the desert was enjoying himself among the birds and was not found. And the king commanded concerning him that they should bring him by force, and wished to destroy him. The cock of the desert returned to King Solomon's presence and said to him, ‘Hearken, my lord the king of the earth, incline thine ear and hear my words. Is it not three months ago that I took counsel in my heart and formed a firm resolution with myself that I would not eat, and would not drink water, before I had seen the whole world and flown about in it? And I said, Which province or kingdom is there that is not obedient to my lord the king? I beheld and saw a fortified city, the name of which is Qitor, in an eastern land. The dust is heavy with gold, and silver is like dung in the streets, and trees have been planted there from the beginning; and from the Garden of Eden do they drink water. There are there great multitudes with garlands on their heads. From there are plants from the Garden of Eden, because it is near unto it. They know how to shoot with the bow, but cannot be slain with the bow. One woman rules over them all, and her name is the Queen of Sheba. Now if it please thee, my lord the king, I shall gird up my loins, and I shall rise up and go to the fortress of Qitor, to the city of Sheba; I shall "bind their kings with chains and their nobles with links of iron," and shall bring them unto my lord the King.’ And the saying was pleasing before the king, and the king's scribes were called, and they wrote a letter and fastened the letter to the wing of the cock of the desert. And he arose and went up high into the sky and bound on his tiara and grew strong, and flew among the birds. And they flew after him. And they went to the fortress of Qitor, to the city of Sheba. And it came to pass at morning time that the Queen of Sheba went forth by the sea to worship. And the birds darkened the sun; and she laid her hand upon her garments and rent them, and she became surprised and troubled. And when she was troubled, the cock of the desert came down to her, and she saw, and lo! a letter was fastened to his wing. She opened and read it. And this was what was written in it:— ‘From me, King Solomon. Peace be to thee, peace be to thy nobles! Forasmuch as thou knowest that the Holy One, blessed be He! has made me King over the beasts of the field, and over the fowls of the air, and over jinns and over spirits and over night-goblins, and all the kings of the East and the West and the South and the North come and inquire about my health (peace): now, if thou art willing and dost come and inquire after my health, well: I shall make thee greater than all the kings that bow down before me. And if thou art not willing and dost not come nor inquire after my health, I shall send against thee kings and legions and horsemen. And if thou sayest, ‘What kings and legions and horsemen has King Solomon?’ — the beasts of the field are kings and legions and horsemen. And if thou sayest, ‘What horsemen?’ — the fowls of the air are horsemen, my armies are spirits and jinns, and the night-goblins are legions that shall strangle you in your beds within your houses: the beasts of the field shall slay you in the field; the birds of the air shall eat your flesh from off you.’ And when the Queen of Sheba heard the words of the letter, again a second time she laid her hand upon her garments and rent them. She sent and called the elders and nobles, and said to them, ‘Do ye not know what King Solomon has sent to me?’ They answered and said, ‘We do not know King Solomon nor do we make any account of his kingdom.’ But she was not contented, nor did she hearken unto their words, but she sent and called all the ships of the sea and loaded them with offerings and jewels and precious stones. And she sent unto him six thousand boys and girls, and all of them were born in the same (one) year, and all of them were born in one month, and all of them were born in one day, and all of them were born in one hour, and all of them were of the same stature, and all of them were of the same figure, and all of them were clad in purple garments And she wrote a letter and sent it to King Solomon by their hands. ‘From the fortress of Qitor to the land of Israel is seven years journey. Now through thy prayers and through thy petitions which I entreat of thee, I shall come to thee at the end of three years.’ And it came to pass at the end of three years that the Queen of Sheba came to King Solomon. And when King Solomon heard that the Queen of Sheba had come, he sent unto her Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, who was like the dawn that rises at morning-time, and resembled the Star of Splendour (Venus) which shines and stands firm among the stars, and was similar to the lily which stands by the water-courses. And when the Queen of Sheba saw Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, she alighted from the chariot. Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, answered and said to her, ‘Why hast thou alighted from thy chariot?’ She answered and said to him, ‘Art not thou King Solomon?’ He answered and said to her, ‘I am not King Solomon, but one of his servants who stand before him.’ And forthwith she turned her face behind her and uttered a parable to the nobles, ‘If the lion has not appeared to you, ye have seen his offspring, and if ye have not seen King Solomon ye have seen the beauty of a man who stands before him.’ And Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, brought her before the king. And when the king heard that she had come to him, he arose and went and sat in a crystal house. And when the Queen of Sheba saw that the king sat in a crystal house, she considered in her heart and said that the king sat in water, and she gathered up her garment that she might cross over, and he saw that she had hair on her legs. The king answered and said unto her, ‘Thy beauty is the beauty of women, and thy hair is the hair of a man; and hair is beautiful for a man, but for a woman it is disgraceful.’ The Queen of Sheba answered and said to him, ‘My lord the king, I shall utter to thee three parables, which if thou explain to me, I shall know that thou art a wise man, and if not, thou art as the rest of men.’ (Solomon solved all three problems.) And she said, ‘Blessed be the Lord thy God who delighted in thee to seat thee upon the throne of the kingdom to do judgment and justice.’ And she gave unto the king good gold and silver. ... And the king gave her all that she desired."
 
Aslaamu`Alaaykum

Quran corrects the bible!, it teaches the truth about the Prophets :Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Lutt, etc (May the blessings of Allaah be on them).

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam
 
мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє;1369086 said:
Quran corrects the bible!, it teaches the truth about the Prophets :Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Lutt, etc (May the blessings of Allaah be on them).
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Peace, мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє.

How would you prove this?
 
Hiroshi said:
Peace, мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє.

How would you prove this?
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One way is to wait till the Day of Judgement and let the prophets testify themselves against the false claims attributed to them. OR even see if you're alive when Jesus (pbuh) descends to earth near the end of time and testifies against false claims attributed to him.

the other is to simply see if it makes sense that a prophet of god eg; Lut (peace be upon him) could commit incest with his daughters, whether it makes sense that a 'servant' of god eg; Jesus (peace be upon him) could become god himself etc etc


Islam as a whole corrects Christianity and Judaism
 
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the other is to simply see if it makes sense that a prophet of god eg; Lut (peace be upon him) could commit incest with his daughters
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There are 10 cases of incest in the bible and out of those 10 cases , Its amazing how Muhammad(PBUH) didnt "copy" a single one of them into the Quran.
 
aadil77 said:
One way is to wait till the Day of Judgement and let the prophets testify themselves against the false claims attributed to them. OR even see if you're alive when Jesus (pbuh) descends to earth near the end of time and testifies against false claims attributed to him.
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Be serious. It would be too late by then wouldn't it?
aadil77 said:
the other is to simply see if it makes sense that a prophet of god eg; Lut (peace be upon him) could commit incest with his daughters, whether it makes sense that a 'servant' of god eg; Jesus (peace be upon him) could become god himself etc etc
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The Bible does not call Lut a prophet although the Qu'ran does. No blame is attached to Lot for what happened since his daughters deceived him. If you deny that the incident happened then you have the problem of explaining where the historical tribes the Ammonites and Moabites (descendants of Lut through his daughters) came from. Also, why does the name "Moab" mean "from the father"?

But I agree that it doesn't make sense to say that Jesus is God.
 
There would be no serious problem if the Quranic stories matched those found in the Bible but of course they don't. Often there are conflicts and sometimes these concern major issues of doctrine where Islam and Christianity differ in their teachings.
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but there is also a disgareement on the pornographic and violent stuff - By the way doctrine come out of interpretation - The Jews and the christians themselves differ on the understanding of the OT and have very different doctrines. Even the teachings are different. The Jews believe that christians misrepresent the OT.

The bibles account of Solomon are seen to be fantasy and legends as well by many people so I'm not sure where your getting at.
 
Hiroshi said:
Be serious. It would be too late by then wouldn't it?

The Bible does not call Lut a prophet although the Qu'ran does. No blame is attached to Lot for what happened since his daughters deceived him. If you deny that the incident happened then you have the problem of explaining where the historical tribes the Ammonites and Moabites (descendants of Lut through his daughters) came from. Also, why does the name "Moab" mean "from the father"?

But I agree that it doesn't make sense to say that Jesus is God.
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Thats not true at all - the bible itself is not a reliable source for Muslims anyway and including many historians -
 
Hiroshi said:
Be serious. It would be too late by then wouldn't it?
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Yep

The Bible does not call Lut a prophet although the Qu'ran does. No blame is attached to Lot for what happened since his daughters deceived him. If you deny that the incident happened then you have the problem of explaining where the historical tribes the Ammonites and Moabites (descendants of Lut through his daughters) came from. Also, why does the name "Moab" mean "from the father"?
Click to expand...

But again how reliable is the bible?

No prophet can sink this low even by accident - that they could get drunk and commit incest with their own daughter, Allah protects them from such evils and humilation. And he was married, was he not?

He said: "I am indeed, of those who disapprove with severe anger and fury your (this evil) action (of sodomy). My Lord! Save me and my family from what they do."
So We saved him and his family, all except an old woman (his wife) among those who remained behind. (Ch 26:160-171 Qur'ân)

But I agree that it doesn't make sense to say that Jesus is God.
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or that he is the son of god?
 
Zafran said:
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but there is also a disgareement on the pornographic and violent stuff - By the way doctrine come out of interpretation - The Jews and the christians themselves differ on the understanding of the OT and have very different doctrines. Even the teachings are different. The Jews believe that christians misrepresent the OT.

The bibles account of Solomon are seen to be fantasy and legends as well by many people so I'm not sure where your getting at.
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It isn't reasonable to believe that Solomon never existed. But it does stretch credulity to imagine that he practiced magic on a grand scale and had armies of birds and spirit creatures in his court. Also the Israelites did not invade other nations just because they practiced idolatry (as Solomon is depicted as doing). They tended to keep within their own borders. And the description of the action of Solomon in sending a bird to make a declaration with threat of war, does not sound convincing. Nobody reading such a narrative today would take it seriously if it wasn't in the Qur'an.
 
Hiroshi said:
It isn't reasonable to believe that Solomon never existed. But it does stretch credulity to imagine that he practiced magic on a grand scale and had armies of birds and spirit creatures in his court. Also the Israelites did not invade other nations just because they practiced idolatry (as Solomon is depicted as doing). They tended to keep within their own borders. And the description of the action of Solomon in sending a bird to make a declaration with threat of war, does not sound convincing. Nobody reading such a narrative today would take it seriously if it wasn't in the Qur'an.
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no body reading the 'narrative' of Nuh's (pbuh) Ark or of Musa's (pbuh) staff etc would take these events seriously either, would they?

there are many things which might not be taken 'seriously' but these are miracles given to each prophet and they are not hard to believe in

btw Suleiman (pbuh) never practiced magic, his abilities were miracles given to him
 
aadil77 said:
no body reading the 'narrative' of Nuh's (pbuh) Ark or of Musa's (pbuh) staff etc would take these events seriously either, would they?

there are many things which might not be taken 'seriously' but these are miracles given to each prophet and they are not hard to believe in

btw Suleiman (pbuh) never practiced magic, his abilities were miracles given to him
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Speaking for myself, I believe in both Nuh's Ark and the miracle of Musa's staff because both are recorded in the Qur'an and in the Bible. (I believe that there is additional geological evidence for the flood but lets leave that for now.) But the story of Solomon having control of jinns and talking with birds is only found in the Qur'an and the targums. The targums contain all manner of weird accounts and stories from Jewish legends and commentary and much of it is nonsense. But these stories go back a long way, dating to times before the rise of Islam. And it is understandable that critics would claim that such stories were related verbally to Muhammed and that he mistook them for scriptural accounts and included them into the Qur'an.
 
aadil77 said:
But again how reliable is the bible?

No prophet can sink this low even by accident - that they could get drunk and commit incest with their own daughter, Allah protects them from such evils and humilation. And he was married, was he not?
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Well, I have found the Bible to be very reliable. The fact that it sometimes records unpleasant details testifies to the Bible's honesty -- nothing is hidden. The account of Lut and his daughters is important because it shows the relationship of the Israelites to Lut's descendants, the Ammonites and Moabites, and explains God's dealings with these nations. Ruth was a Moabite her descendants included King David and Jesus. Lut's wife was, of course, dead when the incident happened. Turned into a pillar of salt.

What point are you making here? The Bible doesn't say that Lut was a prophet so I have no reason to believe that he was. And the Qur'an doesn't deny that incest took place anyway. Does any hadith comment on this matter?
 
aadil77 said:
or that he is the son of god?
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The Bible calls Jesus, Adam, angels and others sons of God. It also says that Adam was created from the dust of the ground. So obviously these "sons" were not begotten in the manner that humans beget children. But they were given life by God so in that sense he is their Father.
 
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