Islam has copied (say the Christians and the Jews)

[Hiroshi]

My respected brother there is a difference between fell from a cliff which means died by accident and jumped off a cliff which means suicide...

and if they both were true they wouldn`t say (jumped off) but would say as you wrote in your post (fell from)...in shaa Allah you will understand...

anyway you need to know more about Qur`aan so here you are my noble brother read whenever you are free to learn and correct the misconceptions in shaa Allah:


All About The Quran


May Allah be with you Ameen

Thank you for the link.

The account of Judas' death in the book of Acts 1:18 says literally: "pitching head foremost he burst open and his intestines were poured out". The next verse then tells us that everyone in Jerusalem came to know about this incident.

The writer, Luke, was a doctor and, as might be expected, recorded the cause of death. But perhaps since the thing had become so widely known to all he doesn't give a lot of other details.

The account in Matthew 27:5 says that Judas hanged himself. As I pointed out, if he hanged himself over a cliff and something broke causing him to fall then both accounts could be true.

 

[Hiroshi]

There are many ways to do it.
Which one is 100% preserved in its original form, and which one have been translated, cross translated, mistranslated so many many times that even the actual original language is not known.
which one does not contain contradictions, and which one contain so many contradictions.
etc.

What one requires is only a genuine heart to seek the truth.

Could we take a look at these contradictions in the Bible that you speak of and discuss them one by one? (Don't all rush now!!)

 

[Amat Allah]

Thank you for the link.

The account of Judas' death in the book of Acts 1:18 says literally: "pitching head foremost he burst open and his intestines were poured out". The next verse then tells us that everyone in Jerusalem came to know about this incident.

The writer, Luke, was a doctor and, as might be expected, recorded the cause of death. But perhaps since the thing had become so widely known to all he doesn't give a lot of other details.

The account in Matthew 27:5 says that Judas hanged himself. As I pointed out, if he hanged himself over a cliff and something broke causing him to fall then both accounts could be true.

you are always wellcome my respcetd brother...

what I meant that there is no phrase such as fell from only two as written :

1_Matthew 27:5 says that Judas Iscariot when he died he hung himself

2_Acts 1 says that, no he jumped off a cliff head first.

and those two (to a normal person who has a sound brain) are impossible to be gathered to make an end for one story ...with all my respect...

anyway , who wants to know the truth would strive sincerely to find it and would open his/her eyes mind and heart to be able to understand ...and as I said before Allah Is The Only One Who Guides and Misguides , got nothing in my hand as a slave and servant of Allah but to show others the way as Allah taught me...

May Allah guide us All...Ameeeeeen

 

[Amat Allah]

brother Hiroshi I have a Q would you please answer it ?

Why some priests do not marry and have children?

 

[Hugo]

Hugo, please, decide if you're going to try to understand Islam or argue with Islam. My understanding of this board is that, for us non-Muslims, our invitation is only extended in so far as we are seeking to understand Islam.....

I am sorry if you take that interpretation but what I was seeking was clarity about where the dogma that we are born neutral comes from. Certainly the Torah can be read that way though it perhaps describes a new life a neither good nor bad but uses the word 'innocent' and of course I have some sympathy for that idea. But there are issues with the idea of perfection for one supposes that if Adam and Eve had not sinned then would they have died? If we deny our ancestry then its a small step to say that sin can be cast aside and of course even though the Torah says that sin can be overcomes there is no evidence anywhere inn the OT that it was. It also seems logical to assert that if its a matter of perfection then anyone might achieve it and such a person need not be a Christian or Muslim so what place for faith?

So if there is an Islamic position it must be grounded somewhere and it must bone hope be complete.

 

[Hugo]

I am sorry if you take that interpretation but what I was seeking was clarity about where the dogma that we are born neutral comes from in Islam. Certainly the Torah can be read that way though it perhaps describes a new life a neither good nor bad but uses the word 'innocent' and of course I have some sympathy for that idea. But there are issues with the idea of perfection for one supposes that if Adam and Eve had not sinned then would they have died? If we deny our ancestry then its a small step to say that sin can be cast aside and of course even though the Torah says that sin can be overcomes there is no evidence anywhere inn the OT that it was. It also seems logical to assert that if its a matter of perfection then anyone might achieve it and such a person need not be a Christian or Muslim so what place for faith?

So if there is an Islamic position it must be grounded somewhere and it must bone hope be complete.

 

[Hugo]

Can the moderators delete this post as somehow two copies where made but only post 245 is needed?

I am sorry if you take that interpretation but what I was seeking was clarity about where the dogma that we are born neutral comes from in Islam. Certainly the Torah can be read that way though it perhaps describes a new life a neither good nor bad but uses the word 'innocent' and of course I have some sympathy for that idea. But there are issues with the idea of perfection for one supposes that if Adam and Eve had not sinned then would they have died? If we deny our ancestry then its a small step to say that sin can be cast aside and of course even though the Torah says that sin can be overcomes there is no evidence anywhere inn the OT that it was. It also seems logical to assert that if its a matter of perfection then anyone might achieve it and such a person need not be a Christian or Muslim so what place for faith?

So if there is an Islamic position it must be grounded somewhere and it must bone hope be complete.

 

[جوري]

I am sorry if you take that interpretation but what I was seeking was clarity about where the dogma that we are born neutral comes from. Certainly the Torah can be read that way though it perhaps describes a new life a neither good nor bad but uses the word 'innocent' and of course I have some sympathy for that idea. But there are issues with the idea of perfection for one supposes that if Adam and Eve had not sinned then would they have died? If we deny our ancestry then its a small step to say that sin can be cast aside and of course even though the Torah says that sin can be overcomes there is no evidence anywhere inn the OT that it was. It also seems logical to assert that if its a matter of perfection then anyone might achieve it and such a person need not be a Christian or Muslim so what place for faith?

So if there is an Islamic position it must be grounded somewhere and it must bone hope be complete.

why do you ask Grace seeker about the Islamic position?
This has been clarified to you before, I believe which makes it tedious to again, have to reply to the same query!
Mistakes and sins differ greatly, and I think it is difficult to achieve the latter, certainly not impossible, many a sinless righteous people weren't chosen for prophethood, for instance zhu ilkhidr. There was a time when Moses thought he was the wisest man alive because he was chosen for prophet-hood, yet God taught him differently when he arranged for the meeting with zhu ilkhidr!
As to why God chooses a person and not another for prophet-hood, well that is a matter of divine judgment, and as such we expect that this divine judgment not choose a person who has for instance committed incest with his daughters after being drunk-- they have to lead by example, so how credible is it to warn against lewd sins of the flesh by committing lewd sins of the flesh?

It is really that simple complicating it to create excuses for the grievous and slanderous errors in your bible won't make the matter any less serious!

all the best

 

[Hugo]

anyway, a quick chat about comparing the Bible in Greek and the Qur'an in Arabic: the Qur'an was completed in the early 7th Century and shorty thereafter put in book form, the form in which it exists today. let's go with Uthmann's and say mid 7th Century.

Well tell us where we can see a copy of it, this Qu'ran? The fact is that the is an unbridgeable gulf as far as actual manuscripts go, they simply do not exist and the earliest readings from the Qu'ran are on coins or those such as on the dome of the rock. Do you KNOW what 'original' was used to set the type for the Qu'ran on your shelf - what did the printers use? Dr Azami in his book "The History of the Quranic text" talks about having access to "the most accurate Qu'ranic text in the world" so every other text is not accurate is it. So let us be clear there IS NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY COMPLETE VERSION OF THE QU'RAN dated to the time of the prophet

THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY COMPLETE VERSION OF THE BIBLE IN THE GREEK LANGUAGE, IN THE FORM IT IS ACCEPTED BY PROTESTANTS TODAY [AND ONLY THAT FORM], THAT PREDATES THE COMPLETED WRITTEN QUR'AN!

Technically this is correct but it amounts to dissimulation. Consider the Codex Alexandrinas dated to the 5th century (200 years before the Hijrah); it contains the whole Bible except for a FEW PAGES - go to the British Museum and see it. The point is there are some 6,000 manuscripts of the Bible ranging from complete copies to just a page so it is possible to reconstruct the original. If you look in almost ANY translation they will tell you what manuscripts were used and of course scholars have produced from all these manuscripts a definitive Greek edition and you can search it on-line.

If we now consider the Qu'ran there are almost ZERO early manuscripts because Uthman BURNED them all so there is NO foundation to your remarks. Indeed any one who really reads the Qu'ran can see its a recension without any difficulty because so often it changes subject mid way through a section without any warning or logic. We can discuss all this if you wish and I can point out the many ambiguities.

 

[Hugo]

Mistakes and sins differ greatly, and I think it is difficult to achieve the latter, certainly not impossible, many a sinless righteous people weren't chosen for prophethood, for instance zhu ilkhidr. There was a time when Moses thought he was the wisest man alive because he was chosen for prophet-hood, yet God taught him differently when he arranged for the meeting with zhu ilkhidr! As to why God chooses a person and not another for prophet-hood, well that is a matter of divine judgment, and as such we expect that this divine judgment not choose a person who has for instance committed incest with his daughters after being drunk-- they have to lead by example, so how credible is it to warn against lewd sins of the flesh by committing lewd sins of the flesh? It is really that simple complicating it to create excuses for the grievous and slanderous errors in your bible won't make the matter any less serious! all the best

Why don't you do something unusual for you and actually tell us where the dogma of prophets being sinless can be found; in the Qu'ran, in the hadith, in the Bible, where? - please do it in a single screen.

 

[جوري]

Why don't you do something unusual for you and actually tell us where the dogma of prophets being sinless can be found; in the Qu'ran, in the hadith, in the Bible, where? - please do it in a single screen.

why don't you do us all a favor and look to where you had have asked that question before and at the replies you were given?
further, I don't see how the bible enters in this formula? a book with no credibility nor textual or chronological integrity has no use to validate or invalidate any point!

all the best

 

[جوري]

pls. remove double post..

 

[جوري]

pls. remove double post

 

[جوري]

Azami in his book "The History of the Quranic text" talks about having access to "the most accurate Qu'ranic text in the world" so every other text is not accurate is it. So let us be clear there IS NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY COMPLETE VERSION OF THE QU'RAN dated to the time of the prophet

I love how you fixate on a preface from a book you haven't read and a sentence you repeatedly misconstrue!

surely if you'd read the same book in totality (and not the orientalists claims) you'd have seen that every aya from the Quran is accounted for and dated back to the time of the prophet as it was both an oral and written tradition.. incidentally, have you also read in the same preface that the Hebrew script, transformed with the Jews return from their captivity in Babylon to Palestine, was thoroughly devoid of vowels and in fact remained an oral tradition for two thousand years until the contact with Muslim Arabs spurred them in that regard? xvi

you really are some disgusting piece of work!
and people wonder why we consider you a hypocrite?

why is the madinah Mushaf considered the most 'accurate' in the world.. is rather simple (and this was replied to before, but alas our dear Hugo, suffers from mental ailments) I believe it is called the 7iqd of the kaffir, that disables him from registering queries answered before:

1. Obtain a good mus-haf
Try to obtain a good copy of the Quran whose size is according to your need and never ever replace it so that you will be strong in memorising the parts of the pages and the lines. The mus-haf al-huffaaz (the memorisers’ codex) [i.e. the text of the popular green edition from Madina written by the world famous calligrapher, Ta Ha Uthman] is preferred which starts with the verse at the start of the page and finishes with the last verse, and it is divided up well, whereby the Quran being thirty juz` (parts), every juz` has 20 pages and every page has 25 lines. The King Fahd organization in Medina al-Munawwarah has built a printer for this copy and I advice getting it as it is the most accurate contemporary print.

http://theinsanityofthesane.wordpre...le-quran-according-to-my-personal-experience/

It has nothing at all to do with preservation of the original text, rather in the tashkil and the division of texts..

is there any level this guy won't stoop to..

Have you read the rest of the book dear Hugo? or just like to nit pick what you think you can sink your teeth into and always, unwaveringly come up so empty!

 

[Hugo]

why don't you do us all a favor and look to where you had have asked that question before and at the replies you were given?further, I don't see how the bible enters in this formula? a book with no credibility nor textual or chronological integrity has no use to validate or invalidate any point!

I take this post to be an admission that you do not know where the dogma of sinless prophets comes from so the claim has so far no credibility not textual or chronological integrity so it invalidates your point

 

[جوري]

I take this post to be an admission that you do not know where the dogma of sinless prophets comes from so the claim has so far no credibility not textual or chronological integrity so it invalidates your point

Not at all, it just means I am sick of posting the same material over and over for a kaffir who can't register them due to his cognitive conservatism:

if for our dear Muslim members and not you, then I'll post it again:

Infallibility of Prophets

... Were the prophets infallible? If so, why, and what did infallibility mean for them?

Infallibility is one of the necessary attributes of the Prophets. The Arabic word translated ‘infallibility’ is isma, meaning protecting or saving and defending. The word is used in the Qur’an in a variety of derived forms. For example, during the Flood, when the Prophet Noah invited his son to board his ship, the latter replied: I will betake myself to some mountain; it will save me from the water. Noah responded to his son using the active participle of the word: Today there is not a ‘saving one’ from the command of God (Hud, 11.43).
The wife of the ‘Aziz of Egypt, whose name is mentioned as Potiphar in the Bible, uses the same word in, I did seek to seduce him but he firmly ‘saved himself’ guiltless (Yusuf, 12.32). The Qur’an calls believers to hold fast to the ‘rope of God’, that is, the Qur’an and the religion of Islam, using the same word in a different form: Hold fast all together to, and ‘protect’ (against being divided) by, the rope of God (Al ‘Imran, 3.103). Again, we see the same word in the verse, God will ‘defend (protect)’ you from people (al-Ma’ida, 5.67).
A small minority of Muslim scholars have asserted that the Prophets may have committed sins of an insignificant type called zalla, meaning ‘error’ or ‘lapse’, and give, in order to prove their assertion, some examples from the lives of, for instance, Adam, Noah, Abraham and Joseph, upon them all be peace. Before elaborating their cases, it should be noted that even if we attribute some lapses to the Prophets, they are not sins in the meaning of disobedience to God’s Commandments. The Prophets tended to wait for Revelation when they had a question to judge. On rare occasions, however, it happened that they would exercise their own power of reasoning in order to give a judgment as they were the greatest of mujtahids (jurists of the highest rank who can deduce laws from the principles established by the Qur’an and the Sunnah). They might sometimes have erred in their judgments or decisions, but such errors, which were immediately corrected by God, can never be regarded as sins.
Secondly, the Prophets always sought God’s good pleasure in every instant of their lives and tried to obtain what was the best in a matter. If they had rarely missed the best but still caught what was better, this should not be regarded as a sin. For example, suppose a man has to make a choice: whether he will recite the whole of the Qur’an in ten days and give due attention to each verse, or he will finish the recitation in seven days in order to express his deep love of the Word of God. If that man takes the first option without knowing that God’s greater pleasure lies in the second, he will obviously not be regarded as having committed a sin. So, a Prophet’s preference of what is better instead of the best is not a sin, but because of his position before Him, God might sometimes reproach him mildly.
The infallibility of the Prophets is an established fact based on reason and tradition.
Reason requires the infallibility of the Prophets, upon them all be peace, because:
As already explained, the Prophets came to convey to people the Message of God. If we liken this Message or the Divine Revelation to light or pure water, as the Qur’an itself does (al-Ra’d, 13. 17; al-Nur, 24.35), it is absolutely necessary and indispensable to the nature of the Revelation that both the Archangel Gabriel who brought the Revelation, and the Prophet himself who conveyed it to people, should be absolutely pure. Otherwise, that Divine light, the Revelation, would have been extinguished or dimmed, or that ‘pure water’ polluted. Every falling off is an impurity, a dark spot, in the heart. Like Gabriel, the heart or soul of the Prophet is like a ‘polished mirror’ through which the Divine Revelation is reflected to people, or a ‘cup’ from which people quench their thirst for that pure ‘Divine water’. Any black spot on the mirror would absorb a ray of that light; a single drop of mud would be enough to make the water unclear. This would mean that the Prophets did not – God forbid such a thought! – convey the whole of God’s Message. Whereas, in truth, they performed their duty perfectly and left nothing of the Message not conveyed. This is clear from the following verses of the Qur’an:
O Messenger! Convey what has been sent to you from your Lord. If you did not, you would not have fulfilled His mission. And God will defend you from people. Certainly, God guides not the unbelieving people. (al-Ma’ida, 5.67)
Today I have perfected your religion for you, and I have completed My favour upon you, and I have chosen and approved for you Islam as religion. (al-Ma’ida, 5.3)
Secondly, people learn from the Prophets all the commandments and principles concerning belief and conduct. In order that people should learn these commandments in their pristine purity and truth and as perfectly as possible to secure their happiness and prosperity in both worlds, the Prophets must, first, represent, and, then, present them without any faults or defects, for they are guides and good examples for people to follow, as explicitly stated in the Qur’an:
You have indeed in the Messenger of God a beautiful pattern, an excellent example, for anyone who aspires after God and the Last Day, and who engages much in the remembrance of God. (al-Ahzab, 33.21)
There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him – there was indeed in them an excellent example for you – for those who aspire after God and the Last Day. (al-Mumtahana, 60. 4,6)
Despite his utmost care not to do anything contrary to Islam and not even to say a single word which is not sanctioned by God, if a Prophet were to utter an untrue word, he would repent for a life-time, or even longer. It is narrated that the Prophet Abraham, upon him be peace, will direct to Moses those who will appeal to him to intercede for them on the Day of Judgment saying he cannot as he spoke allusively three times in his life.1 Although it is not a sin to make an ‘indirect’ reference to the truth when it is more appropriate rather than being direct, Abraham’s repentance of his three allusions will continue in the Hereafter.
Thirdly, the Qur’an commands believers to obey all the orders or prohibitions of the Prophet without exception, and emphasizes that: it is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by God and His Messenger, to have any option about their decision (al-Ahzab, 33.36). It also warns believers that what falls to them when God and His Messenger have given a judgment is only to say, ‘We have heard and obeyed’ (al-Nur, 24.51). Absolute obedience to a Prophet means that the Prophet is right in all his commands and prohibitions.
Prophethood is so great a favor that all the Prophets bore unbearable pains in fulfilling the duty of thanksgiving and were always worried about not having worshipped God sufficiently. The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, often implored God using the following words:

Glory be to You, we have not been able to know You as Your knowledge requires, O Known One.
Glory be to You, we have not been able to worship You as Your worship requires, O Worshipped One.
​

The Qur’anic verses which are sometimes mistakenly understood to reprimand certain Prophets for some faults of theirs, or to mean the Prophets seek God’s forgiveness for some sin of theirs, should be considered from this point of view. Besides, God’s forgiveness does not always mean that a sin has been committed. The Qur’anic words of ‘afw – ‘pardon’, and maghfirah – ‘forgiveness’, also mean ‘special favor and kindness and Divine dispensation in respect to the lightening or the overlooking of a religious duty’, as in the following verses:
If any is forced (to eat of them) by hunger, with no inclination towards transgression, God is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (al-Ma’ida, 5.3)
If... you find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For God is All-Pardoning and Oft-Forgiving. (al-Nisa’, 4.43)
Fifthly, sins and pardon have different degrees:

• Sins committed by not obeying the religious commandments, and the forgiveness thereof;
• Sins committed by disobeying God’s laws of creation and life, and the forgiveness thereof;
• Sins in respect of behaving against the rules of good manners or courtesy (adab), and the forgiveness thereof.

A fourth type which is not a sin, is doing something good but not the best, a failure in doing perfectly what is required by the love of, and nearness to, God. This is what some of the Prophets may have done, so it is not a sin in our normal usage of the word for something deserving of Divine punishment.
Tradition also proves the Prophets’ infallibility.
God says in the Qur’an concerning the Prophet Moses:
I cast love over you from Me (and made you comely and loveable) in order that you might be brought up under My eye. (Ta Ha, 20.39)
The Prophet Moses, upon him be peace, was brought up by God Himself and prepared for the mission of Messengership. Therefore, it is inconceivable that he may have committed a sin at any time in his life.
The same is true of all the other Prophets. For example, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, says of Jesus: Satan could not touch Jesus and his mother at his birth. Jesus was protected from birth until his elevation to the Presence of God, as we also read in the Qur’an:
(Mary) pointed to him [the babe}. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is an infant in the cradle?’ He (Jesus) said: ‘I am indeed a servant of God: He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet. And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not over-bearing or a wretched rebel. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I will be raised up to life again.’ (Maryam, 19.29-33)
Jesus, like all the other Prophets, was protected from all kinds of sin from his birth. God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, intended in his childhood to attend two wedding ceremonies at different times but, on each occasion, he was overpowered by sleep which prevented him from attending.2 Likewise, in his youth he helped his uncles with the restoration of the Ka‘ba by carrying stones. Since the stones hurt his shoulders, his uncle, ‘Abbas, advised him to hoist the garment covering the lower part of his body, onto his shoulder to carry the stones on. He just did what he was advised to do, leaving some of the upper part of his legs uncovered, when he fell on his back with his eyes staring fixedly. An angel appeared and warned him that what he had done was improper, saying: ‘This is not befitting for you.’3 For the day was to come when he would order people to be well-mannered and observe Divinely ordained standards of conduct, including covering the thighs.
God’s Messenger says that all the children of Adam make faults and err, and the best of those who make faults and err are the repentant.4 This implies that man is fallible by nature, but it does not mean that all of mankind are ‘condemned’ to erring howsoever. Whether by God’s Will and special protection or, as will be explained below, by His showing the way to be free from errors or sins, even the greatest of saints who continue the Prophetic mission of guiding people may be infallible to some degree.
God promises to protect the believers who fear Him, and to endow them with sound judgment to enable them to distinguish between truth and falsehood, and between right and wrong:
O you who believe! If you fear God, He will establish in you a Criterion (to judge between right and wrong), purify you of all your evils, and forgive you. God is of grace unbounded. (al-Anfal, 8.29)
God made a covenant with the believers that if they obey Him, assist His cause and strive to exalt His Word, by proclaiming His religion, He will help them and make their feet firm in the religion, protecting them against all kinds of deviation (Muhammad, 47.7). God’s protection of believers from their enemies and against committing sins has been made dependent on their support of Islam and struggle to spread it all over the world so that only God is worshipped and no partners are associated with Him either in belief or worship or the creation and rule of the universe. If believers fulfill their covenant with God, God will fulfill His covenant with them (al-Baqara, 2.40). If, by contrast, they break their promise, God will not make them successful (al-Isra’,17.8).
God protects His servants against sins in different ways. He may put some obstacles in their way to sins so they do not sin, or He may establish a ‘warner’ in their hearts, or, if all the other means prove of no use, He may cause, for example, their legs to be broken or their hands unable to hold or grasp. Or He may warn one by putting a verse in his mouth, as He did with a young man during the Caliphate of ‘Umar, may God be pleased with him.
The young man was so strict and attentive in his worship that he performed all his prayers in the mosque. A woman lived on his way to the mosque and tried her hardest for several days to seduce him into making love with her. Although the young man resisted her alluring gestures, the moment came when he took a few steps towards the woman’s house. Just at this point, he felt he was reciting this verse:
Those who fear God, when a thought of evil from Satan assaults them, bring God to remembrance, and lo! they see (aright). (al-A’raf, 7.201)
In the face of this Divine warning, the young man was so ashamed before God of what he was about to do, and felt so overwhelmed by his Compassionate Lord’s preventing him from committing a sin, that he died. When ‘Umar was informed of the incident a few days later, he went to his grave and shouted: ‘O young man. For him who fears the time when he will stand before his Lord, there will be two gardens!’ (al-Rahman, 55.46). A voice from the grave, whether belonging to the young man himself or an angel on his behalf, replied: ‘O Commander of the Believers: God has granted me the double of what you say!’5
This is God’s protection of His sincere servants. He says in one of His Revelations outside the Qur’an:
My servant cannot draw near to me through something else more lovable to Me than the obligations I have enjoined upon him. Apart from those obligations, he continues to draw near to Me through supererogatory acts of worship, until I love him. When I love him, I will be his ears with which he hears, his eyes with which he sees, his hands with which he grasps, and his feet on which he walks. If he asks Me something, I will immediately give it to him; if he seeks refuge in Me from something, I will protect him from it.6
God guides His true servant to good and protects him from all kinds of evil. The servant wills and does what is good and refrains from wickedness. He asks God what is good and whatever he asks is provided for him; he seeks refuge in God from what is bad, and whatever he seeks refuge in God from, he is protected against it.
All the Prophets were infallible. They never committed a sin, minor or major, and their lives were spent doing virtuous deeds. Although God sent numerous Prophets to mankind, the Qur’an specifically mentions only twenty-eight of them. I think it will be proper here to count them in the words of Ibrahim Haqqi, an eighteenth-century Turkish saint and religious scholar, who was also an expert in anatomy and astronomy:
Some have regarded it a religious injunction to learn the names of the Prophets.
God informed us of twenty-eight of them in the Qur’an:
Adam, Enoch, Noah, Hud and Salih;
Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael, who is a sacrifice for God.
Jacob, Joseph, Shu‘ayb, Lot and John the Baptist;
Zachariah and Aaron, who is the brother of Moses, who spoke to God.
David, Solomon, Elijah and Job;
Elisha, a kin of Jesus, who was a spirit from God.
Dhul-Kifl and Jonah, who is certainly a Prophet.
The seal of them is the Beloved of God – Muhammad, Messenger of God.
They disagree on the Prophethood of Ezra, Luqman and Dhul-Qarnayn.
Some regard them as Prophets, while others as saints of God.
NOTES
1. Muslim, “Kitab al-Iman,” 326.
2. Ibn Kathir, al-Bidaya, 2.350–1.
3. Bukhari, “Kitab al-Hajj,” 42; Ibn Kathir, al-Bidaya, 2.350.
4. Tirmidhi, “Kitab al-Qiyama,” 49; Ibn Majah, “Zuhd,” 30.
5. Ibn Kathir, Tafsir 3.539.
6. Bukhari, “Kitab ar-Riqaq” 38; Ibn Hanbal, 6.256.

http://www.***********/aqida/infallibility_of_prophets.htm

you on the other hand aren't worthy of being dignified with a response, given that it goes completely over your head and for obvious reasons!

 

[YusufNoor]

Well tell us where we can see a copy of it, this Qu'ran? The fact is that the is an unbridgeable gulf as far as actual manuscripts go, they simply do not exist and the earliest readings from the Qu'ran are on coins or those such as on the dome of the rock. Do you KNOW what 'original' was used to set the type for the Qu'ran on your shelf - what did the printers use? Dr Azami in his book "The History of the Quranic text" talks about having access to "the most accurate Qu'ranic text in the world" so every other text is not accurate is it. So let us be clear there IS NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY COMPLETE VERSION OF THE QU'RAN dated to the time of the prophet

i didn't put the time as "the time of the prophet" but at the time of his son in law, Uthman. let's not forget that Abu Bakr initially refused to assemble the Qur'an as a written book.

Technically this is correct but it amounts to dissimulation. Consider the Codex Alexandrinas dated to the 5th century (200 years before the Hijrah); it contains the whole Bible except for a FEW PAGES - go to the British Museum an,nd see it. The point is there are some 6,000 manuscripts of the Bible ranging from complete copies to just a page so it is possible to reconstruct the original. If you look in almost ANY translation they will tell you what manuscripts were used and of course scholars have produced from all these manuscripts a definitive Greek edition and you can search it on-line.

actually, the codex that you refer to includes books NO LONGER considered "inspired by God"

If we now consider the Qu'ran there are almost ZERO early manuscripts because Uthman BURNED them all so there is NO foundation to your remarks.

i dated the "written" Qur'an to the time of Uthmann, that IS the foundation for my remarks

which would be unlike the Bible, and hence not copying the Bible. get it?

We can discuss all this if you wish and I can point out the many ambiguities.

i wrote:

THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY COMPLETE VERSION OF THE BIBLE IN THE GREEK LANGUAGE, IN THE FORM IT IS ACCEPTED BY PROTESTANTS TODAY [AND ONLY THAT FORM], THAT PREDATES THE COMPLETED WRITTEN QUR'AN!

you wrote:

Technically this is correct

is there something wrong with being correct?

you missing the point, whether purposefully or not.

Christians didn't fully and completely decide exactly "what was inspired by the "Holy Spirit" in their Bible in it's original language" until centuries AFTER Muslims KNEW what was contained in the Qur'an in it's original language! THAT is history! that is the TRUTH!

 

[Hugo]

I love how you fixate on a preface from a book you haven't read and a sentence you repeatedly misconstrue! surely if you'd read the same book in totality (and not the orientalists claims) you'd have seen that every aya from the Quran is accounted for and dated back to the time of the prophet as it was both an oral and written tradition.. incidentally, have you also read in the same preface that the Hebrew script, transformed with the Jews return from their captivity in Babylon to Palestine, was thoroughly devoid of vowels and in fact remained an oral tradition for two thousand years until the contact with Muslim Arabs spurred them in that regard?

What page or section in Dr Azami's book is every Aya accounted for? Perhaps you would like to read what Dr Azami says on page 154 and the para that starts "Earlier we saw how ..." you may think that the transmission was perfect but Dr Azami does not. In the URL you gave us about memorizing what doe it mean when Dr. Yahya al-Ghouthani say get a 'good' copy - are there poor copies, inaccurate copies what does he mean?

If the signs and dots for vowels added to the Arabic text have nothing to do with its preservation what use do they have? If they were added later then what we have now is not what was originally written by the scribes of Mohammed - though of course we cannot know since no textual material of that period exists.

Yes I have read the whole book by Dr Azami - pick any section you like and we can discuss it if you wish - do you have a copy?

 

[جوري]

What page or section in Dr Azami's book is every Aya accounted for?

Why not sit down and read the book from beginning to end? You either fixate on an ancillary point, ignore the main points and deflect to some faulty conclusion that you desire others arrive to, to be in concert with your own very jaded understanding of the world around you or worse yet complain that it is a 6000 word essay thereby exonerating yourself from having to exert any effort at a paradigm shift and give yourself a considerable free margin to ask the same question again as if no one has seen it from you before?-- Why not simply concede that you have no interest in reading things that challenge your personal convictions and that you are not at all interested in facts rather only vested in all that caters to your own whims-- maybe if you are equally invested in the replies as you're in your rabid quest to pose inane questions you could stop wasting your time and far worse, ours in the process?!

Perhaps you would like to read what Dr Azami says on page 154 and the para that starts "Earlier we saw how ..." you may think that the transmission was perfect but Dr Azami does not.

or perhaps again the problem stems from you not reading in totality and absorbing what is written and then using that abstract at application in ? the paragraph after or before the three words you used, he states '' The Qir'at is sunnah that is strictly adhered to'' and ''the term 'variant' is one I dislike using in such cases because a variant results by definition, from uncertainty. If the original author pens a sentence one way and the sentence is then corrupted due to scribal errors then we have introduced the principal of uncertainty; a subsequent editor who is unable to distinguish the correct wording from the incorrect will place what he believes to be the correct version in the text, whilst citing others in margins. Such is the variant reading. But the Quran's case differs distinctly because the prophet Muhammad, Allah's sole vicegerent for the wahy's reception and transmission, himself taught certain verses in multiple ways. There is no principal of doubt, no fog or confusion, and the word variant fails to convey this. Multiple is far more accurate description, and so in spirit I'll refer here as multiple readings.''

does that sound to you as someone who thinks the transmission isn't perfect? BTW 'variant/Multiple' readings still exist today of the same exact text (again, discussed before) let's have a look at two readings from the same sura:

In the URL you gave us about memorizing what doe it mean when Dr. Yahya al-Ghouthani say get a 'good' copy - are there poor copies, inaccurate copies what does he mean?

I believe the paragraph describes to you in totality what 'perfect' and 'accurate' means, maybe it pays reading it one more time without injecting your own rendition as is always expected from you? or perhaps at a later time you can add this to your ammo along with Azami's comment in the preface to denote something other than what is meant to some poor unsuspecting sap, or better yet on an islamophobic forum (which by the way I think you are far better suited for) and will be hailed as king rather than the board jester you currently are for I imagine like minded individuals will be captivated by your brand of deception and ability to twist words or take out of context to suit your purposes which apparently you have down to an art!

If the signs and dots for vowels added to the Arabic text have nothing to do with its preservation what use do they have? If they were added later then what we have now is not what was originally written by the scribes of Mohammed - though of course we cannot know since no textual material of that period exists.

Not everyone who learns/ memorizes or reads the Quran is a native Arabic speaker, that is what use they serve!
today only 20% of the world's Muslims are Arabs..and if God's promise is to preserve this Quran, we can only be grateful in the fashion it was preserved to make it accessible to ALL Muslims, native Arabs or not!

Yes I have read the whole book by Dr Azami - pick any section you like and we can discuss it if you wish - do you have a copy?

lol.. I find you quite funny.. why don't you work on your comprehension first so when we are discussing a paragraph (as demonstrated above) so we are discussing what is actually written, rather than what you desire had been written?

all the best

 

[Hiroshi]

brother Hiroshi I have a Q would you please answer it ?

Why some priests do not marry and have children?

Peace, Amat Allah.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 says: "the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry ..."

So the reason that priests in the church do not marry is that they follow the teachings of devils.