Islam has copied (say the Christians and the Jews)

[جوري]

Uh huh.... and you're a Muslim, right? So you picked the religion that you felt suited you best. Obviously, you don't agree with Christian teachings, otherwise you would have been a Christian. Regardless of which religion you choose however, you need a certain amount of faith, and a certain amount of "mystery". Otherwise, any religion falls apart.

The part that matters (the one having to do with my salvation) doesn't have convolution wrapped in an enigma.. I don't need some verbal and mental calisthenics to attain paradise, anymore than I need to understand Islamic finance or Jurisprudence for that matter.. contrast to Christianity basic tenet...

I did pick the religion that made most sense, that satisfied me both intellectually and spiritually.. one that doesn't ask me to shut the thinking part of my being and follow blindly!

all the best

 

[S.Belle]

The Christian scriptures present Jesus as God. Though you may think that based on Islamic teaching he doesn't fit the bill, it matters not as our scriptures tell us that he in fact was.

Ok then read this and explain please

19th chapter of Matthew, verses 16-17.
"And behold, one came and said unto him: 'Good master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?' [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
And he [Jesus] said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God:..."[/FONT]

Jesus just said "Why are you calling ME good? There is only one who is good, and that's God."

 

[S.Belle]

also this please mister

John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."

hmmm sounds like a Messenger of God to me......

 

[Ramadhan]

The Christian scriptures present Jesus as God

Except that NOWHERE in YOUR scripture does jesus say or claim he is god and NOWHERE in YOUR scripture does he ask people to worship him at all, let alone as god.

 

[Ramadhan]

f the Christian Bible says Jesus is God, then to Christians, Jesus is God.

Then produce verses from the christian bible where Jesus himself says he is god.

 

[Amat Allah]

I am very happy to answer your questions Amat Allah.

There is a prophecy in Genesis 3:15 where God says to Satan: "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

After the rebellion of Satan in persuading Adam and Eve to disobey God, God purposed to put things right but means of an "offspring" or "seed". Who that seed would be and what he would do gradually came to be revealed through time and the unfolding of God's purpose.

In Genesis 22:18 shows that this "offspring" or "seed" would come through Abraham: "through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Abraham was, of course, also an example to all of us in faith and devotion and love for God. He showed obedience even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his own son.

Thank you so much for answering my respected brother but you didn`t say what was his calling and message, was he a disbelievers ? Is he going to hell? (would you please answer my Qs in a clear and direct answers, would you?) please answer my Qs with yes and no too (Quote my Qs and answer them with yes and no then explain whatever you want in shaa Allah)...

May Allah lead your way to the path of real happiness Ameeen

 

[DavidK565]

Except that NOWHERE in YOUR scripture does jesus say or claim he is god and NOWHERE in YOUR scripture does he ask people to worship him at all, let alone as god.

Two things Naidamar,

1) Its not my scripture.

2) That wasn't the point of my post. The point was you can't disprove Christian teachings by using the Qur'an. Someone else quoted the Qur'an to "prove" that Jesus was not God. It simply doesn't work.

Personally I don't care either way.

 

[tango92]

Two things Naidamar,

1) Its not my scripture.

2) That wasn't the point of my post. The point was you can't disprove Christian teachings by using the Qur'an. Someone else quoted the Qur'an to "prove" that Jesus was not God. It simply doesn't work.

Personally I don't care either way.

you cant really know the intention of sisters post. it may be that hearing that verse might have knocked some sense into our christian members

 

[Ramadhan]

Two things Naidamar,

1) Its not my scripture.

In this post, I was replying to Grace Seeker's post.
have a look again at my post (#324)

That wasn't the point of my post. The point was you can't disprove Christian teachings by using the Qur'an. Someone else quoted the Qur'an to "prove" that Jesus was not God. It simply doesn't work.

Exactly.
but then you followed with: "If the Christian Bible says Jesus is God, then to Christians, Jesus is God"
And in my own way, I was telling you that the christian bible never says that jesus is god.
However, if you believe that christian bible indeed says that jesus is god, I'd like to see that.

 

[DavidK565]

In this post, I was replying to Grace Seeker's post.
have a look again at my post (#324)

You're right, my bad.

Exactly. but then you followed with: "If the Christian Bible says Jesus is God, then to Christians, Jesus is God" And in my own way, I was telling you that the christian bible never says that jesus is god. However, if you believe that christian bible indeed says that jesus is god, I'd like to see that.

I have not extensively read the Bible, but being in America, and speaking to many Christians, the consensus seems to be that they believe Jesus is God, or part of God. (Maybe "infused" with God). Something like that. I have no biblical proof of it, but I trust that those who believe such things have reason to do so.

If you look at any religion (yes, including Islam), you're going to find some mystical stuff that doesn't really make sense. That's what religion is all about. You need faith to believe that these things are true.

 

[Hiroshi]

Thank you so much for answering my respected brother but you didn`t say what was his calling and message, was he a disbelievers ? Is he going to hell? (would you please answer my Qs in a clear and direct answers, would you?) please answer my Qs with yes and no too (Quote my Qs and answer them with yes and no then explain whatever you want in shaa Allah)...

May Allah lead your way to the path of real happiness Ameeen

Yes Abraham is already in hell. Even Jesus went to hell when he died. Acts 2:27 KJV says (speaking of Jesus): "thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" and Acts 2:31 KJV says: "his soul was not left in hell". Jesus went to hell (as we all will) but he was not left there. The dead come out of hell in the resurrection. Revelation 20:13 KJV says: "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them". Hell means "the grave" in all of these scriptures. We all go to our grave.

Was Abraham a believer? Yes he was, of course.

What was Abraham's calling? What do you want me to say? He was a prophet. He was called "Jehovah's friend". He had unshakeable faith. And he was the father of great nations thanks to a miracle of God, giving him a son in his old age.

 

[جوري]

so god put himself in hell? :lol:
man it just gets better and better.

 

[tango92]

so god put himself in hell? :lol:
man it just gets better and better.

:lol: now i think i dont really know christianity at all;D

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Yes Abraham is already in hell. Even Jesus went to hell when he died. Acts 2:27 KJV says (speaking of Jesus): "thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" and Acts 2:31 KJV says: "his soul was not left in hell". Jesus went to hell (as we all will) but he was not left there. The dead come out of hell in the resurrection. Revelation 20:13 KJV says: "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them". Hell means "the grave" in all of these scriptures. We all go to our grave.

Was Abraham a believer? Yes he was, of course.

What was Abraham's calling? What do you want me to say? He was a prophet. He was called "Jehovah's friend". He had unshakeable faith. And he was the father of great nations thanks to a miracle of God, giving him a son in his old age.

Now i must say honesly that God can never Die and is ever living, and since he created this earth why does he need to be burried into his own creation?

Yes Abraham(pbuh) was a believer, he believed that God is One, he submitted to the will of God. Abrahams (Pbuh) calling was to believe that God is one!

 

[Insaanah]

So, the argument can be flipped around and it can be said that the Bible proves that the Qur'an is wrong about Jesus, right?

Actually, there are verses still remaining in the Bible that concur with what Allah has said in the Qur'an. The word trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible, which is rather strange seeing as this is the crux of mainstream Christian belief. This concept only came about after about 300 years of Jesus's (peace be upon him) departure from this earth.

It is not about point scoring, with I'm right, you're wrong. It is about saying come closer to Jesus's original teachings, and the message that God sent him with, not the erroneous beliefs of people who never met him and came years after. The scripture that God gave Jesus (peace be upon him) was God's word. But Christians themselves admit that the Bible we have with us now is not the word of God, but mainly the word of man, and that some parts are written by people that never met Jesus (peace be upon him) and some parts, no one really knows exactly who wrote. The Qur'an confirms the original message of the scripture given to Jesus (peace be upon him).

The point is, all along God has taught mankind from the time of Adam (peace be upon him) that he is One, other than Whom there is none worthy of worship. How is it, all of a sudden, after thousands of years of God telling people one thing, He suddenly changes His mind when it came to Jesus, with a 3-in-1 God, rather than purely One? Did God not know His true nature before? All of a sudden we have a god that cries, goes to the toilet, doesn't actually know if he is god, dies for 3 days, sacrifices himself, and all of that so that he can forgive people and prove his love to the world.

Alarm bells should ring there. What kind of a God changes His mind after thousands of years about who He is, and that too in a derogatory fashion?

Does this make sense, or does One, Eternal, Immortal, Indivisible God, with no sons, daughters, brothers, cousins, grandparents or any other relatives make sense? A God who does not beget, nor is He begotten? The same message, given to all the Prophets from the beginning of time. No inconsistencies in the message.

Sure, you have to have an element of faith in God, but there also needs to be an element of sensibility. God does not ask us to believe insensible or disrespectful things about His nature.

We are saying to Christians, think outside your comfort zone and what you have been taught to believe. Think objectively. Look at God's message to mankind from the beginning of time. All we call to, is a return to the message of God, sent via his Messengers (including Jesus, peace be upon them all), not the "messages/dreams/visions/anything else" of Peter and Paul et al.

Verses from the Qur'an are not to be afraid of. They are there, as Allah says, to confirm what was in the earlier scriptures that He sent.

Peace.

 

[Hugo]

The facts (for Hugo): - There is only 1 quran exist in the world, with millions people memorize it and know the full content by heart, down to a single letter, period, and comma. This is impossible if the Qur'an had not been memorized in full by many people the prophet Muhammad SAW received its revelation, or if there were a different version along the way, or if it were changed or if memorization transmission was broken along the way. There are many records of unbroken transmissions from present day all the way the prophet SAW. - There are currently thousands of bible versions, disagreeing with each other not only in language/wording, but also content. The authors were unknown. There is no method of memorization. There is no record of the transmission of eye witnesses. Even the translators are unknown.

First of all it is NOT a fact that Mohammed received a revelation from God since it is impossible to check. Secondly, we are told that Uthman BURNED all the shall we say 'unofficial' Qu'rans so there was more than one - why burn them if they were all exact copies of each other and by the way while all the fuss about burning Qu'ran when the first perpetrators of such an act where the companions themselves? One cannot prove an unbroken record or memorisation can you unless it was also written down? So WHERE is the original?

Yes there are 1,000 of Bible translations because it has been translated into 1,000 of languages. It is absolutely absurd to say these translations differ in content as if one ends up with a totally different story. What difference does it make that some authors were unknown as that has no bearing whatever on whether its from God or not does it - if it does then ANY book with a known author is from God. What does it matter if there is no train on memorization as if that somehow make it more true but we have something better than that we have actual copies. Who is the author of the Qu'ran and tell me how I can trace it back to him to check?

 

[Zafran]

There are no versions of the Quran other then the one we have - if there are you'll have to prove it to us.

On the other hand there are many versions of the bible for example the 66/73 books difference between the catholics and Protestants - thats a good place start. - some believe that the inspired word of God shouldnt have the books in the canon - the catholics differ - Dont forget that this dispute took place in the 16th century effecting the bible itself. How many years is this after christ now.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings

First of all it is NOT a fact that Mohammed received a revelation from God since it is impossible to check. Secondly, we are told that Uthman BURNED all the shall we say 'unofficial' Qu'rans so there was more than one - why burn them if they were all exact copies of each other and by the way while all the fuss about burning Qu'ran when the first perpetrators of such an act where the companions themselves? One cannot prove an unbroken record or memorisation can you unless it was also written down? So WHERE is the original?

Yes there are 1,000 of Bible translations because it has been translated into 1,000 of languages. It is absolutely absurd to say these translations differ in content as if one ends up with a totally different story. What difference does it make that some authors were unknown as that has no bearing whatever on whether its from God or not does it - if it does then ANY book with a known author is from God. What does it matter if there is no train on memorization as if that somehow make it more true but we have something better than that we have actual copies. Who is the author of the Qu'ran and tell me how I can trace it back to him to check?

Uthman (Ra) burned the copies for a reason the reason which i highly doubt you are aware off, ohhh leme guess you discovered that from some anti islamic site init? I suggest you do some serious RESEARCH!

You said you have read the whole Quraan? okay so what does surah 112 speak about? Just a curious Q


It makes a HUGEEE difference, how can you prove these men lived with Jesus(pbuh)? The Quran means the recitation, and the Quraan is the book thats been recited and memorised by millions around this EARTH!, Ok another way to prove the Quraan is the truth are the many miracles in the book and also if you was to throw every Bible and every Quraan in the ocean, the word of the Qurans can never be forgotten as many have memorised, and since Allaah says in the Quraan that he will protect his word, which word seems to be protected more, the bible or the Quran?

"Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." (Al Quraan)

You must realise that you can believe whatever you may, but the Quraan proves itself, I ask you sincerely, which word is guarded? If God loves you will he not guard his message? When i say loves you i mean guiding you to do whats right and stay away from that which is harmful to you, so do you really think his message will be destructible? Allaah has guided his message, your Lord and my Lord!

Allaah is the author of the Quraan, you seem to claim to have read the Quran but you seem to not know the author of the Quran?

peace

 

[جوري]

First of all it is NOT a fact that Mohammed received a revelation from God since it is impossible to check.

Not impossible at all, try to spend some of that free time you waste trying to disprove that it is the word of God!

Secondly, we are told that Uthman BURNED all the shall we say 'unofficial' Qu'rans so there was more than one

There were no 'un-official' Quran's-- there were parchments that were destroyed.. Do you read at all? I mean ever before writing?

- why burn them if they were all exact copies of each other and by the way while all the fuss about burning Qu'ran when the first perpetrators of such an act where the companions themselves? One cannot prove an unbroken record or memorisation can you unless it was also written down? So WHERE is the original?

See above response and previous responses!

Yes there are 1,000 of Bible translations because it has been translated into 1,000 of languages. It is absolutely absurd to say these translations differ in content as if one ends up with a totally different story. What difference does it make that some authors were unknown as that has no bearing whatever on whether its from God or not does it - if it does then ANY book with a known author is from God. What does it matter if there is no train on memorization as if that somehow make it more true but we have something better than that we have actual copies. Who is the author of the Qu'ran and tell me how I can trace it back to him to check?

:lol: well I guess if god has been to hell and akin to some animal like a sheep or goat or whatever else you want to have him as, and died, and prayed to himself, and didn't know if the earth bore fruit, and didn't know that something he created was going to crucify him, and didn't know that the apostles he chose were worthless, that he'd have to rescind his previous message through a charlatan, then you are right, the unknown authors have no bearing on the matter, because frankly you have no standards whatsoever. and if you have known and so proven, then don't come and ask for something else especially that has been amply elucidated and left for you to examine critically, from a historical, contextual, transcendental etc. point of view!


I'd urge folks here to simple reference this git to where he'd been previously answered!

 

[DavidK565]

There are no versions of the Quran other then the one we have - if there are you'll have to prove it to us.

On the other hand there are many versions of the bible for example the 66/73 books difference between the catholics and Protestants - thats a good place start. - some believe that the inspired word of God shouldnt have the books in the canon - the catholics differ - Dont forget that this dispute took place in the 16th century effecting the bible itself. How many years is this after christ now.

I know this isn't directed at me, but I always looked at the branches of Christianity as separate religions. They all follow the teachings of Jesus, but Catholics and Protestants and Evangelicals and Baptists all have different beliefs and practices. Its really only the Catholics who believe in the Trinity...