Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Getoffmyback]

Things that i'm curious about my self . Why i can't be like you believers. Any of you people of the book!

 

[Grace Seeker]

Things that i'm curious about my self . Why i can't be like you believers. Any of you people of the book!

I'm confused. Who says that you cannot? Whether you are talking about the Bible or the Qur'an or Karl Marx, surely what you submit to following is a choice that you alone make.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Remember, this earth is only our temporary dwelling. Eternal life awaits for the pious and good people.

Two questions:
1) Is there not some type of eternity that awaits those who are not pious and good people?

2) Since earth is only our temporary dwelling does this mean that Islam believes we are ourselves actually immortal people who are only temporarily living in a mortal body?

 

[Ramadhan]

2) Since earth is only our temporary dwelling does this mean that Islam believes we are ourselves actually immortal people who are only temporarily living in a mortal body?

Define what immortal is.

GS, if you are going with "jesus must be God because he was mortal and immortal in the same body", you can discuss it in the other thread where you may express your belief that God reincarnated in a man a la the movie "avatar" and where christian deity cried and took toilet breaks.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Define what immortal is.

GS, if you are going with "jesus must be God because he was mortal and immortal in the same body", you can discuss it in the other thread where you may express your belief that God reincarnated in a man a la the movie "avatar" and where christian deity cried and took toilet breaks.

American Heritage Dictionary
im·mor·tal (

-môr

tl) [SIZE=-2]KEY[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]ADJECTIVE:[/SIZE]

1. Not subject to death: [SIZE=+0]immortal deities; the immortal soul.[/SIZE]
2. Never to be forgotten; everlasting: [SIZE=+0]immortal words.[/SIZE]
3. Of or relating to immortality.
4. Biology Capable of indefinite growth or division. Used of cells in culture.

[SIZE=-1]NOUN:[/SIZE]

1. One not subject to death.
2. One whose fame is enduring.

Merriam Webster Dictionary

immortal Popularity




2 ENTRIES FOUND:

• 1) immortal (adjective)
• 2) immortal (noun)

​

1im·mor·tal

adj \(ˌ)i-ˈmȯr-təl\
Definition of IMMORTAL

1
: exempt from death <the immortal gods>

2
: exempt from [COLOR=#006400 !important][COLOR=#006400 !important]oblivion[/COLOR][/COLOR] : imperishable <immortal fame>

3
: connected with or relating to immortality

4
: able or tending to divide indefinitely <immortal cell lines produced in culture>

— im·mor·tal·ly \-təl-ē\ adverb

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• <the age-old quest for immortal fame>
• <vowed that his hatred of that family was immortal and that [COLOR=#006400 !important][COLOR=#006400 !important]someday[/COLOR][/COLOR] he'd get his revenge>

If I wanted to discuss Christian theology, I would; but I wouldn't do so in this thread.

If I wanted to discuss Jesus, I would; but I would have asked about Jesus then, not about something else.

Since my question is about humanity, not Jesus -- whether or not we mortal humans are not also immortal beings -- I have no idea how an affirmative answer would prove anything regarding Jesus' diety. That would be convoluted logic, for one could argue that any immortal claims regarding Jesus were just part of his human nature as we are all immortal beings in the long run. A negative answer might be used to substantiate Jesus' diety I suppose if one could show that Jesus is immortal, but other humans are not. But I hadn't thought of it till you brought it up.


Scimitar made a statement that I was curious to explore more, as his phraseology was along the lines of something that I had thought myself. Now if you are able to address the question I asked, and not projections of your own great! If not, step aside, please and let someone else speak to Scimitar's comments --like maybe Scimitar himself.

 

[Ramadhan]

Scimitar made a statement that I was curious to explore more, as his phraseology was along the lines of something that I had thought myself. Now if you are able to address the question I asked, and not projections of your own great! If not, step aside, please and let someone else speak to Scimitar's comments --like maybe Scimitar himself.

I don't know what scimitar believes, but here's your answer from the Qur'an:

"Every soul shall have taste of death; In the end to us shall ye be brought back"
(Surah Al-'Ankabut 29:57)

That would be convoluted logic, for one could argue that any immortal claims regarding Jesus were just part of his human nature as we are all immortal beings in the long run

I'm glad you have come to your senses and see that your theology belief is nothing but a whole mess of convoluted logic.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I'm glad you have come to your senses and see that your theology belief is nothing but a whole mess of convoluted logic.

that's not what I said.

I don't know what scimitar believes, but here's your answer from the Qur'an:

"Every soul shall have taste of death; In the end to us shall ye be brought back"
(Surah Al-'Ankabut 29:57)

So if one dies and is brought back to life, is there continuity between the two lives? Are our present and our future the same or different persons?

 

[Ramadhan]

So if one dies and is brought back to life, is there continuity between the two lives? Are our present and our future the same or different persons?

The mechanisms of life and death is with Allah SWT only, but the ayah already answer your question on mortality with the definitions that you presented.

 

[Getoffmyback]

I'm confused. Who says that you cannot? Whether you are talking about the Bible or the Qur'an or Karl Marx, surely what you submit to following is a choice that you alone make.

How about richard dawkins and the god delusion

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Greetings Grace Seeker,

If by immortality you mean that the soul is eternal then yes the soul is eternal and will go on for eternity. If by mortal you mean the body is temporary then yes the body is temporary and is only our temporary vessel in this world loaned to us by God and after death that vessel is no more but the soul will go on for forever whether that eternity is that of the torment of the fire or that of eternal bliss.

 

[YieldedOne]

Malaikah:
Music is the tool of the devil.



Wow. What do YOU say, Prophet Dawood?

Psalm 150:
Praise the Lord!
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens!
Praise him for his mighty deeds;
praise him according to his excellent greatness!
Praise him with trumpet sound;
praise him with lute and harp!
Praise him with tambourine and dance;
praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with sounding cymbals;
praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord!
Praise the Lord!

-----------------------------------

David was a man of superb strength, slaying Goliath in his raw youth. But God afterwards had bestowed upon him various gifts, including those of kingship and prophethood. Thus, the wise king would frequently praise God, in unison with the nature around him.[19] Many scholars believe he was given the gifts of music as well, and would sing his prayers too, as he was blessed with great eloquence. The Qur'an mentions David's praise of God:

Bear with patience what they say, and remember Our votary David, man of strength. He surely turned to Us in penitence.
We subjugated the chiefs (of tribes) to struggle day and night with him,
And the levied birds. They were all obedient to him.
—Qur'an, sura 38 (Sad), ayat 17-19[20]

...


The Zabur was the Holy Book attributed to David by God, just as Musa (Moses) got the Tawrat (Torah), Isa (Jesus) got the Injil (Gospel) and Muhammad received the Qur'an. In the current Hebrew Bible scriptures, the Zabur is known as the Psalms. However, like other Islamic scripture of the past, the Psalms are believed to have been corrupted over time, with some of the original message gone. Nonetheless, Muslims are told to treat the present Psalms with immense respect because, in their original form, they too were an inspired Book of God. The Qur'an states:

Your Lord knows whoever is in the heavens and the earth. We exalted some of the prophets over the others; and to David We gave the Book of Psalms.
—Qur'an, sura 17 (Al-Isra), ayah 55[23]

The term Zabur is the Arabic equivalent of the Hebrew Zimra, meaning "song/music." It, along with Zamir ("song") and Mizmor ("Psalm"), is a derivative of Zamar, meaning "sing", "sing praise", "make music". Thus, David is also usually attributed the gifts of music and song.

 

[YieldedOne]

Why would God honor someone who constantly used a "tool of the devil" and ENCOURAGED others to do so as well??

 

[YieldedOne]

Hmmm...

"Qur'an commentators, historians and compilers of the numerous Stories of the Prophets elaborate upon David's concise Qur'anic narratives and specifically mention David's gift in singing his Psalms as well as his beautiful musical and vocal talents."

 

[Grace Seeker]

Greetings Grace Seeker,

If by immortality you mean that the soul is eternal then yes the soul is eternal and will go on for eternity. If by mortal you mean the body is temporary then yes the body is temporary and is only our temporary vessel in this world loaned to us by God and after death that vessel is no more but the soul will go on for forever whether that eternity is that of the torment of the fire or that of eternal bliss.

Yes. That gets at exactly what I meant. Thank-you.


So, I wonder, in the context of what you have written, Hamza, does that make us human beings a sort of living paradox while on this earth being both mortal and immortal at the same time? I think it does from the Christian perspective, but I wonder if one would feel comfortable saying the same thing in Islam?


(And, no, Naidamar, the reason or the question still has nothing to do with anyone's divine status.)

 

[Scimitar]

GetOffMyBack (love the username btw)

I used to have similar issues. I was born a Muslim (thank Allah) but never really understood it. I was born in England, and my early education consisted of normal schooling and from 5pm-7pm weekdays - in a Mosque learning to read Arabic and then the Quran - so I can make prayers properly.

I must add that the teachers in my day (circa 1980 - 1989) did not really teach us the histories of Islam. So I saw my time at the Mosque as more of a chore than anything else. It came to the day where I left, and I never looked back. Preferring to wile out my time on skateboards and BMX's (like most kids - and there's nothing wrong with that) I barely kept up prayers, and slowly I lost faith to the point where I wouldn't even enter a Mosque on Friday...

I became a modern, westernised person. No religion was grounding me to become a better human being. I started to experiment with drink and drugs, clubbing, having girfriends and a whole line of broken relationships... Now, being an Indian (parents are from India) I was under some pressure to get married from parents and I rebelled - waiting for Ms Right... that never happened. What did happen was this: I slowly started seeing women as objects. I drank alcohol as a means of escape - smoked weed too. Even grew it via hydroponiics etc. I was living the high life - and that's when depression struck.

(Interesting stat here: In England, it is reported that 1 in 4 people suffer from chronic depression.... another finding proves that people who follow a faith are less likely to suffer a depression)

So, Depression struck, along with anxiety... I was lost in this state for a period of 6 years man. I was 25 when this happened. One day, when I was 32 yrs old, I woke up on a SUnday crying my eyes out due to the bad luck in life I was having. I was at my wits end. Seriously down to the point where I considered ending it. I thought about all the crap that had happened to me, like walking in on the girl i was in love with - only to find here having sex with someone I know. Things like rejection. Being sacked from work by my manager who was alos a friend, because I was too good at my job and was making more money than him through commissions alone. I thought about my addictions to cannabis, alcohol and other illicit drugs like coke and MDMA... IO felt like a complete loser - the guy I never wanted to be when I was an innocent child was the person I had grown into as a man...

... Imagine, turning out to be the complete opposite of the person you imagined you would be? It brings things home, in a way man.

One day, I was walking past a Mosque, on the way to score some weed - when the Imam opened the door and said "Assalam Alaikum" and just as I was about to respond with the traditional greeting, the Adhan was called (call to prayer) and something very VERY strange happened... I couldn't talk. The Imam smiles a knowing smile and said "come in young man"

I didn't want to go inside, I wanted to smoke weed - but how could I deny this man - when I couldnt even utter anything? so I went inside - he showed me where to do ablution but it had been so long that I had forgotten how to do it - so I waited until some dude came in and I copied his actions. A few minutes later, I'm in the congregation and praying with Muslims... I felt humbled by the closenes of the brothers there - whose elbows and shoulders were pressing against mine, united in our worship of Allah. It felt so serene bro, I don't know any arabic but the recitation moved me.

After the Namaz (worship) came the prayer - and the Imam prayed in Bengali, asking God to forgive sins and the normal stuff - but I couldnt understand any of it (gujurati and english only) - however something did happen to me then, I broke down... My hands were open palms out. They were held high, tears flowing down my face onto my shirt and eyes closed desperately trying to hold my tears back. (i'm actually emotional as I write this). The prayer ended but I sat there, unmoving - teasrs still flowing and hands still open, palms out ... the Brothers were leaving one by one and as they saw my sorry ass state - they each walked past me with a gentle pat on my shoulder, or a nod, or a smile showing empathy.... this was something I never experienced before and I really liked it. I felt a belonging and I didn't even know these people.

I knew right then that if salvation was to come - it was to come through Islam... I left the mosque (East London Mosque) and went next door to the bookshop because I wanted some tissues to wipe my face... There the brother said he could see "noor" on my face as soon as I walked in (noor means light, or halo). I said "haha good one magte, but I'm not even a proper Muslim" then he said "So why do you have this noor then? what have you done in the last ten minutes to make this light on your face?" I said "I cried in the Mosque, does that qualify me?" and he said "You did tauba?" (tauba = repentance) I said " I think so bro" and he said, "Maybe you have been forgiven"... and I burst into tears all over again.

****, I had to walk out of the shop, this was all too freaky and unexpected. I went straight home to Leytonstone via train. But when I got home, I wondered what namaz it was that I had participated in Mosque and went to the kitchen to find the time table of namaz. It was Asr prayers that I had done. maghrib was in 10 minutes.

I wondered what would happen if I carried on praying in secret - My logic was "what have I got to lose?" I mean, I felt kinda good and I could explain it - and thought, "Drugs make me feel good, but not this good" I felt at true peace when I was in the mosque, a comfort so real that I could cry in front of complete strangers and they wouldnt think ill of me. So I prayed Maghrib in the back room and that's where it started for me.

The main thing to remember when you are pondering faith, is what do you have to lose if you decide to follow a faith? The real answer is nothing, you lose nothing. And what do you gain in the immediate? Expiation for your sins, detest for worldly gain as the evil of temptation sits within that frontier. A dislike for "escapism" meaning no more drugs or drink to feel good or confident anymore.

People around me were happier with me around and I felt myself getting closer to the people who really mattered. Like my parents and siblings, I became a caring and loving brother, I got closer to Allah, and find peace whenI'm sitting in a mosque after prayers - just watching brothers greet eachother and hug made me feel so peaceful.

E|ven my friends who I used to do drugs, drinking, clubbing with - were amazed at my change. At first I thought "what will they think" and tried to avoid them. But Allah is Merciful, and put understanding and love in the hearts of these friends - they would ask me about Islam, and what it was like to be a Muslim. At times they would joke about Bin laden and stuff but hey, mates will always be mates... They would surprise me sometimes too. I once saw Kenny - a very heavy drinker and a serious patriot to the UK. I dreaded meeting him as it meant confrontation - but WOW, he walked up to me with a can of beer in his hand and said "Mosh, you look so good man, so healthy and pure" words I would never have expected to drip from his lips and then he said "I'd hug you man, but you are clean and I am dirty" whaaaaaat? WHAAAAAAAT? Did he really say that? I said to him that if he hadnt had that beer with him, I would crush him with a hug full of so much love that he'd revert to Islam in a moment... It was a joke, but it was in good nature. And we talked for an hour or so before he moved on.

I lost nothing. I gained better friends, real friends who really care about me. I feel a sense of belonging which i never had before. I felt peace - the like of which I could never comprehend before I turned to Islam... And I don't think it was my choice either - I think I had a special invite from Allah that day... how else can one explain me going to buy drugs but ending up going into a mosque and getting the best fix ever? The fix of Repentance... it cleans out all the negativity if one does it sincerely, hoping Allah will accept our efforts to be better humans and guide us to the straightest path in doing so...

Anyone can make that first step. Anyone. All it takes is a little reflection and regret - and a hope to move towards a better understanding, and I guarantee - Islam will be presented to you as an option, somewhere - for your eyes only. For your heart to recognise the sign as an invitation to the truth... that is all. I guess Allah had to make a special effort with me coz I was a complete idiot in my understanding yet he made it easy for me. May Allah (SWT) make it easy for all of us... Ameen

 

[Grace Seeker]

How about richard dawkins and the god delusion

I've never read Dawkins, so I can't say. Are we talking about self-delusions or are we talking about delusions that are a product of biology or consequence of injury?

 

[Scimitar]

How about richard dawkins and the god delusion

Good one... that did make me smile, uncomfortably I might add.

Grace Seeker. Ok, I will answer the best i can (thank you naidamar for the re-corrections brother).

Your soul is made ETERNAL
Your body on earth is made to feel hunger, thirst, pain, want, comfort, etc - all worldly traits that leave us feeling incomplete. If we can pass this test on earth, by being patient and enjoining the good and forbidding the evils, by prioritizing what is truly important, and by never getting big headed about our ego - we will be amonst those who are successful - as long as we can accept that there is only 1 God.

After Armageddon / We will be judged and that is when our souls will be in our immortal bodies - but here there is a difference.

In Heaven - your body feels no pain, hunger, thirst etc - but you will have fruits and food the likes of which we've never seen on earth - and we will eat for the pleasure of eating and drinking. Wine will flow that has no ill effects, but serves to enhance your state in a way that is pleasing to Allah. This is not intoxication - rather, an opposite in the sense that you will never be left not knowing what you are doing - you will be in charge of your faculties. There will be no waste like urine or excrement from your body as the nourishment of Heaven has no waste.

In Hell - You body will feel a pain so severe that I can't even explain. You will hunger and thirst but all that will be bought out to you is boiling blood to drink and spiky thorns to eat - and without even thinking you will eat and drink those. You will be punished eternally over and over - everytime your body is destroyed by the fire and torment, Allah will re-make it in an instant and your pain will stillbe fresh - and another layer of punishment will be bought forth...

So, to recap - your body in Heaven will never rot, or feel pain, or be cut, or hurt - it will be perfect, without blemish - you will be created in the image that Allash had originally intended for you, and you will be beautiful beyond the comparisons on earth. In hell, you will be there eternally but your body will be constantly punished, and upon failure it will be re-animated so the pounishments can continue... Allah save us from this torment and give us Jannah (Heaven) Ameen.

In Hell - you body will be immortal - but

 

[YieldedOne]

Brother Scimitar,

Thanks for sharing your story. Truly blessed my heart. God moves on the hearts of those who are open to Him.

I just had a question. A thought really. I saw that you were born and raised in a Muslim household...and after your time of prodigality, came to find acceptance and forgiveness in the Mosque. You said "I knew right then that if salvation was to come-it was to come through Islam..."

Could the same type of divine love, acceptance, and forgiveness be experienced by a person born and raised in a CHRISTIAN home, who after a time of prodigality, visited a CHURCH, who worshipped and prayed with the others there? Such that they would have said "I knew right then that if salvation was to come--it was to come through Christ."?

Is that a possibility? If so, would that experience be ANY LESS REAL than the one you had?

Just a thought.

Again, wonderful testimony to the healing power of God, Brother. He draws nigh to the brokenhearted!

 

[Scimitar]

Sorry, strike last sentence in the above post please - I meant your soul will be immortal but your body semi-immortal, because you can die, and you will be made to live again - over and over - for your punishments...

 

[YieldedOne]

There are some that say that only God is naturally immortal and/or incorruptible...and that immortality has to be communicated directly to the created soul by God for it to have immortality. In other words, God is immortal/incorruptible NATURALLY, while creaturely souls have immortality BY GRACE.

Just a note.