I’m boudhist, christian, muslim and jewish too

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Yeah, isn't a journalism degree supposed to include mastery of writing?

Well, funny thing: I actually took a year of journalism as my major before I switched to history. I thought it would be cool, getting to freelance articles into newspapers and magazines. I quickly got disgusted with the tilted way I had to write the news and the idiocy of some of my editors.
 
Hmm. Do you think Chess becomes a belief system if you read books on it? Will one book accomplish the transformation? What about people who read all kinds of books, say on Chess and Cats and Coffee and Chicago. Do they now have four new belief systems or one Chess/Cat/Coffee/Chicagoism belief system?

I think part of the confusion is with the -ism ending. Atheism and theism aren't the same kind of 'isms' as Lamarkism or tribalism. They're the other kind of 'ism' a state of being, like albinism and workaholism. Theism is the state of believing at least one supernatural deity exists. Atheism is the state of not believing at least one supernatural deisty exists.

sure, it was a weak analogy but its not the argument i wanted but the understanding.

im saying if you read the god delusion you are pushing towards something..like your love or interest in cats or coffee.

its like what can an athiest say?
you must have a world view, or not.

deities do not have to be supernatural, often in fiction of the "future" (im a sci-fi fan) science and magic are inseparable.

also many people are dismissive of cats and coffee, it does not mean they do not exist.
the same as chess, it exists but not in my world.
if you read books on any of them it is only to gain understanding, i would hope.
 
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I think I get you. Not a religion in the sense of being comparable with, say, Buddhism, but more like an avid interest? Like when we say someone plays golf 'religiously' as in sticking with it and being serious about it?

A lot of atheists are not avid at all, so you don't hear much from them, you could call them 'apatheists'. I suppose you usually find this avidity in what many of us call 'deconverts', atheists who used to be sincere religious theists. Often we have researched our own religion and found we weren't satisfied with it, but we retain our interest in religion, the nature of belief, ethics, and so on. It wouldn't be far off the mark to say I've made a religion of rational empiricism or postpostivism or whatever you want to call it in the sense that the topics fascinate me enough that they take up a good chunk of my internet and reading time.

You bring up an interesting point about supernatural deities, and it's why I define atheism as lack of belief in supernatural deities. A person could decide to worship something known to exist without wittingly ascribing any supernatural power to it. Arguably the philosophy of communism became an object of worship for many people. I've known what I call an 'uncommtted deist' who worships whatever caused the universe but doesn't make any claims about what that is, not even claiming it's a conscious being: if it was quantum fluctuations, that's what he worships, in gratitude for making it possible for us to exist.

Now if someone started the First Church of Quantum Fluctuations which reveres what they think is the natural process behind the Big Expansion, that would be an atheistic religion...as long as they don't believe the quantum fluctuations want or think anything. There's already an atheistic religion called Raellianism that worships aliens. I think they're irrational, but since they don't believe in any supernatural deities, I have to put them on the atheist side, not the theist side, much as I'd rather not be associated with them in any way.

Which brings us to SF. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that a being or beings with greater knowledge than us and technology unfathomable to us might seem god-like in comparison to humans, and might be worshipped by humans who didn't comprehend what they really were (like those Egyptian aliens from Stargate). For various reasons I don't really think it is probable that there are critters like that out there, but it's not impossible in a huge universe with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars and planets.
 
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Often we have researched our own religion and found we weren't satisfied with it

sure, but that would be the beginning of the path to finding that god you believed in as a child no?

the alien worship is a bit off though.
i dont do aliens only misunderstood humans..it probably fits one of the definitions of the word.

the point i was trying to make is that gods will is probably not supernatural, just beyond understanding. its not a case of technology on his part but on ours. no parlor tricks on his side. the vastness of god is all encompassing,
so whatever the cause of the beginning of the universe it still needs an instigator.

i know its a hard job to even justify something that does not exist, but those quantum fluctuations were found eventually.

its cringworthy i know but its like my little brother was telling me how maths in naturally occurring in nature and that does nothing to invalidate my belief. nothing supernatural about maths, but to think how much of everything it governs..without actually being anything, is something to think about.
 


Wow, that explains a lot...

Pretty sure I'd be some sort of atheist too if all my experience with Islam/Muslims was online...

There are not many muslims in my neck of the woods. I do know a few, but they are few and far between. Online they are everywhere :)
 
There are not many muslims in my neck of the woods. I do know a few, but they are few and far between. Online they are everywhere

The internet can get you some pretty good information about the basics... But when it comes to the Muslims themselves.... Well, that's another story. :p

But I can only speak from my own online experience I guess...
 
Pretty sure I'd be some sort of atheist too if all my experience with Islam/Muslims was online...

90% of my experience with Muslims is online. I know a few Muslims in real life, but I don't know them well. But masha'Allah, now I'm a Muslim myself! :muslimah:
 
I talked to the people here online before I ever went to the masjid and talked to the brothers there. I didn't have any Muslim friends before that.
 
Err, I should clarify a bit... I know Muslims online can be great and supportive if you already agree with them. My comments were directed more at the way I've witnessed online Muslims acting when faced with things they don't agree with. It seems like that's when the online community gets rather nasty, and fails to represent Islam the way it should be represented. (This can be said for any group though, but it's especially damaging for Islam since many non Muslims are only exposed to Islam online.)

Once again though, this is only based on my experience... We should probably get back to the topic of this thread now. :p
 
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Mistaking a Sikh for a Muslim is the closest most people I know in real life come to encountering Islam. Is mostly just this thing you hear about on TV.
 
I don't think any group is best represented by its 'online defenders', including mine. We should always keep in mind that internet communities are different from RL communities.

I know dozens of Muslims in RL, but most of them are from the same tribe, so I know I am not getting a good picture of Muslim diversity. I know a few ex-Muslims too.
 

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