The American Dream

[Who Am I?]

Salaam Again
Well , there is a great solution i think the American Government will accept:
How about going on strike or making a revolution as happened in the Middle East?
I am sure The Government will step down as "It is not legitimate anymore because the people are against it !"
I doubt that as the American Governmen has a double-standard view of everything Especially Politics
again , I am sorry Please Forgive me if I offended you.
Salaam

The American people are too afraid of the government to start a revolution and demand change. Besides, far too many people here depend on the government for their basic necessities, and they don't want to do anything to upset that. Revolution will probably never happen unless the economy collapses completely and people stop getting a paycheck (which might acually happen in the next decade or so). As long as people get paid, they'll be content to do whatever the government tells them.

 

[Who Am I?]

Salam
You think? Or is it just a Justification for what they did so America Doesn't look so bad when asked about it?
Brother It completely Destructed live of millions of people .. Many painfully lost their loved ones ...
Think Again ..Not everything in History books are really what happened everyone write history according to their opinions ...It is never impartial

Salaam

Well it might be, sure, I admit that. But I personally think it unlikely that Japan would have surrendered without the use of nuclear weapons. From the research I have done, that is my opinion.

But as I said, that is a debate that still goes on today and will always go on between students of WW2 history.

Salaam, sister.

 

[GuestFellow]

I may have to disagree with you about the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. It is still debated today over whether or not those bombs saved millions of lives on both sides.

Salaam,

America financed Hitler which changed my view on WW2.

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html

I suspect it was a revenge attack. After the bombings, America experimented on the Japanese civilians. When America has been attacked, it always takes extreme action. I believe the use of nuclear weapons can never be justified.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I have a Q...and my Q is..

Why is it called the 'American dream'? is there a 'British Dream' also? why not call it the 'The American and British dream'?
Sounds a lil lame to just call it 'American Dream'..dont u think?

anyways on a serious note:

Is the American Dream to get Rich/Wealthy or to be Middle Class ? In my opinion I would love to be Rich or Wealthy Capitalism promotes the idea that we can all be Rich one day.​

To your first Q, yes I believe it is..

But remember being rich isnt completely a bad thing..

Allaah SWT does give us wealth, remember Allaah mentions in his noble book he shall us test is with many things, wealth is one amongst them things..

You shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and properties and in your personal selves, and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you (Jews and Christians) and from those who ascribe partners to Allah, but if you persevere patiently, and become Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2) then verily, that will be a determining factor in all affairs, and that is from the great matters, [which you must hold on with all your efforts]. [Al Qur'aan 2:186]

So we must not be greedy, we must learn to be just and sincere and kind..to help out those in need etc.

 

[IAmZamzam]

May, it was my fault for flying off the handle but I don't like people referring to entire countries as personified monolithic wholes because it is a large part of precisely what allows, and even causes, the kind of stereotypes I've been talking about. As I've already discussed here, far from being a trivial nitpick there is nothing in the world more mind-controlling to human nature than simple semantics. I doubt very much that there would have been nearly as much irrational hatred toward innocent members of the German populace during World War II had people not been talking about Hitler's war efforts as what "the Germans" were doing.

The American people are three hundred million different individuals, between us every possible viewpoint and political affiliation, and I personally would sooner step off a cliff than into a voting box. As for Sarah Palin, she has become very much a running gag for making statements like the one you quoted, the most common general attitude here being that she's too ridiculous to be taken seriously enough to offend.

If you mean the American government, say "the American government". If you mean the American military, say "the American military". I will not be included in the activities of either party, even with mere wording, just because I happen to live within the same set of imaginary lines as them.

As our writer Kurt Vonnegut said, the one thing above all people learned from Vietnam is that no matter how much protest there is the government still will not care what its people think it should do. And good luck trying to get three hundred million different people anywhere in the world to agree enough on anything to go on strike.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Of course there have been people who have called the a-bomb dropping justified, King of Nines, what do you expect? There's nothing in this world so obviously heinous and uncalled for that people will not still defend it if it's done in the name of something they think they believe in. Who on earth ever would do such an extreme thing as destroying entire cities without making up some ridiculous excuse, and why?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam / Peace

I would love to be Rich​

I want to be rich but not in exchange with hereafter i.e if wealth is good for my this life & the next world , then yap

 

[Who Am I?]

Well, I wasn't expecting the opposition that I have found regarding my comments on the A-bomb. I'm still not sure I agree with you, but as I said, that is a debate that will never end. I will respect your opinions and leave it at that.

Anyway, as far as Hitler being financed by the USA, at first, yes, a re-armed and rebuilt Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union, which was seen as the "Evil Empire" until Hitler invaded Poland. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would wage war for Europe while the UK and USA sat and watched.

Only when Hitler invaded Poland (whose territorial integrity had been guaranteed by France and the UK) did Nazi Germany become the bad guys, and when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they (begrudgingly) became an ally as well.

 

[May Ayob]

May, it was my fault for flying off the handle but I don't like people referring to entire countries as personified monolithic wholes because it is a large part of precisely what allows, and even causes, the kind of stereotypes I've been talking about. As I've already discussed here, far from being a trivial nitpick there is nothing in the world more mind-controlling to human nature than simple semantics. I doubt very much that there would have been nearly as much irrational hatred toward innocent members of the German populace during World War II had people not been talking about Hitler's war efforts as what "the Germans" were doing. The American people are three hundred million different individuals, between us every possible viewpoint and political affiliation, and I personally would sooner step off a cliff than into a voting box. As for Sarah Palin, she has become very much a running gag for making statements like the one you quoted, the most common general attitude here being that she's too ridiculous to be taken seriously enough to offend.

Salaam
Okay, so Non-"Americans" (like me) should be careful when using the word "Americans" and should be using qoutes between the word so as not to mix up between the people and their government, because i am basically being unjust and I am demeaning the people for something that they did not choose ( that is them being "Americans") -- I didn't know that i was the founder of Apartheid.

I must also add qoutation when i say the "American Government" or the "American Military" because they don't represent the American populace am i correct? Then what are the Officials of that Government? Did not the "American people" elect them?
And if they are not , what are they then aliens from outer space?
I many be living in a different planet.

Don't take me seriously , i was merely expressing my thoughts with a sense of humor( which i am not good at), The above as well was not meant to offend you or any one else.
You are right , i 'think' i agree with most of what you said , it is biased to be attacking the people for something that they might have nothing to do with , they may not be acknowledging what" the American Government" is doing in their name , I promise you i will make good effort into implementing your advice when addressing America and it's people ---I would also expect the same from people that happen to be living in that Imaginary line.

We are all human beings so I apologize if my words have hurt any one who happens to be from that continent and was offended by what i said.

I might have misunderstood some of your previous posts as well , would you care to explain to me what you mean by "Shooting the messenger" because i have failed to understand this phrase as i am no good with Idioms

Salaam

 

[May Ayob]

Well, I wasn't expecting the opposition that I have found regarding my comments on the A-bomb. I'm still not sure I agree with you, but as I said, that is a debate that will never end. I will respect your opinions and leave it at that. Anyway, as far as Hitler being financed by the USA, at first, yes, a re-armed and rebuilt Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union, which was seen as the "Evil Empire" until Hitler invaded Poland. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would wage war for Europe while the UK and USA sat and watched. Only when Hitler invaded Poland (whose territorial integrity had been guaranteed by France and the UK) did Nazi Germany become the bad guys, and when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they (begrudgingly) became an ally as well.

Salaam
Do you see how you are speaking of a predicted future that never happened? Historian might as well just work as foretellers if this is the case...
Nice way to make excuses for the criminal; would you like my following scenario?:
I wouldn't have killed the child , had i not known that he was going to be a criminal in the future.. thus by killing him i saved him from the evil of his self and protected the people around him from being hurt in the future..
It never happened , i doubt it was ever going to have, The same "Government" could have stopped many evils things that harm humanity at that time , but no they didn't find something more usefull than to bomb a city that has absolutely nothing to do with the war..
I may have to disagree with you , but i also have to respect your opinion , Please keep in mind that with out making effort of speech sympathy towards the victims , i might as well say that if i was an ethnic Japanese from the region i would have considered the fact that my soul and the soul of my people has absolutely no value at all, this is why it is thought to be acceptable when a country such as "America" makes up such excuses it doesn't even make effort in making them realistic let alone acceptable by anyone , because it knows that the International Security Council will never bring it to "Justice"

Didn't mean to offend you as well
Salaam

 

[GuestFellow]

Anyway, as far as Hitler being financed by the USA, at first, yes, a re-armed and rebuilt Germany was seen as a buffer against the Soviet Union, which was seen as the "Evil Empire" until Hitler invaded Poland. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would wage war for Europe while the UK and USA sat and watched.

Only when Hitler invaded Poland (whose territorial integrity had been guaranteed by France and the UK) did Nazi Germany become the bad guys, and when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, they (begrudgingly) became an ally as well.

The Soviet Union was financed by America too. There are three very detailed books on this:

• Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1917–1930 (1968)
• Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1930–1945 (1971)
• Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development: 1945–1965 (1973)

They are all written by Athony C Sutton. There is a small online version, explaining Wall Street role behind the Bolshevik Revolution.

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION

In a nutshell, America financed both sides.

 

[IAmZamzam]

You apologize too much, my dear. Although your question

Did not the "American people" elect them?

does sound suspiciously like the most cliched excuse for blaming an entire country on what its government does, that "they" (as though it were automatically by unanimous decision!) "voted for these people". I don't vote, and when it comes to Bush, Jr., for example, the answer is certainly "no". He just stole the election. Try to imagine someone speaking ill of everyone in the entire court system because the corrupt current chief justice was voted into office, so "they're" all to blame as "they" voted for him. Even if the vote was 55%-45% and for all you know you're talking to one of the people who either didn't vote or voted against him. The existence of democracy is apparently all it ever takes to make people pretend to themselves that everyone can be blamed for the actions of a small few. It's also been used as the argument of military people (and not just from America) massacring civilians willy nilly. "They live here, they voted for this tyrant, if they hadn't let him into power then there wouldn't have been a problem. I say kill them all."

I know you're not advocating killing and you're probably not even genuinely prejudiced, but girl you really need to watch what you say! Fewer apologies and fewer reasons to have to make them is the better formula, isn't it? I'm not trying to get on your case; it may not sound like it but I'm actually addressing this to everyone because this is a very common problem and one more of the reasons why anti-American prejudice, and prejudice in general, runs so rampant. The bigots of the world do need their excuses.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Do you see how you are speaking of a predicted future that never happened? Historian might as well just work as foretellers if this is the case...Nice way to make excuses for the criminal; would you like my following scenario?: I wouldn't have killed the child , had i not known that he was going to be a criminal in the future.. thus by killing him i saved him from the evil of his self and protected the people around him from being hurt in the future...

Don't forget: that scenario did happen once (surah, 18, verses 74-81). The difference is: Harry Truman was not a prophet of God.

 

[IAmZamzam]

"Shoot the messenger": Western colloquialism meaning "to scold, or take out your resentment on, a person who is merely telling you about something offensive being done and is not the offending party themselves".

 

[Trumble]

You think? Or is it just a Justification for what they did so America Doesn't look so bad when asked about it?

No. Nobody has seriously disputed the likely casualty figures (civilian and military) had the Allies actually invaded Japan, least of all the Japanese themselves.

The relevant question is whether either was necessary. The simple answer in hindsight (which shouldn't be forgotten) is no.

Government has lost sight of what it is really supposed to do. The original framers of the US Constitution only intended for limited government, and its original purpose was to protect the rights of its citizens, not to tell the citizens what their rights are and to control every aspect of their lives. The government should not be making your decisions for you, but sadly there are far too many people now who rely on the government to tell them what to do in their lives. Our founding fathers would weep at what we as a nation have become.

What is government "really supposed to do"? Political philosophy has moved on since then. What is essentially a libertarian position is still a perfectly defensible one, but it seems rather foolish for the nation to commit itself to a particular model because that's what the founding fathers wanted (in the absence of the most popular alternatives). They are long dead, and the times in which they lived are long gone.

In western capitalist countries their taxation penalises the poor and vulnerable in society. Clever accounting and offshore Swiss bank accounts ensure the rich in western societies can avoid paying the majority of taxes altogether. In the UK for example, the Queen is one of the richest people in Britain yet she pays no income tax, whereas a poor single mother or an old age pensioner must pay income tax.

Both single mothers and pensioners need pay income only if their income exceeds a certain threshold. Most that could be described as poor are provided for by state benefits, anyway, so they are net gainers from the taxation system. The Queen has actually paid income tax for some years, albeit it by voluntary arrangement. She is not a legitimate example for the claim being made due to her constitutional position as Head of State, and any tax she pays is theoretically paid to herself! It doesn't work like that in practice, of course, but paying tax still amounts to no more than a PR exercise. Fortunately, the rich haven't been able to avoid paying the 'majority of taxes' due to clever accounting and offshore accounting for many years, if indeed they ever could. Not that some of it doesn't go on, of course, but the system is geared to preventing such abuse, not enabling it.

 

[May Ayob]

Don't forget: that scenario did happen once (surah, 18, verses 74-81). The difference is: Harry Truman was not a prophet of God.

Salaam
Thank you for the reminder, but i didn't mean it in that way...Astaghfur Allah
I was saying that it isn't hard to find it normal when the "American Government" finds it "hard" to politely apologize to the citizens of Hiroshima for their disturbance and interrupt of their "peace"..
I also meant that to foretell something is going to happen without evidence or certitude and act or in this case " destruct" upon isn't a very wise decision especially if "America" needs more labor people from Africa and South East Asia to boost up it's Economy as it is infamous that the "American Economy" depends on Labor Industrialization.
Salaam

 

[May Ayob]

No. Nobody has seriously disputed the likely casualty figures (civilian and military) had the Allies actually invaded Japan, least of all the Japanese themselves. The relevant question is whether either was necessary. The simple answer in hindsight (which shouldn't be forgotten) is no.

I agree , and about that Bombing I thought i read that the "President of America" at that time literally said that the bomb was only thrown to show "America's Power and Soverignty"
It is hard for me to believe what brother King of Nines had said.
Peace be to you

 

[May Ayob]

"Shoot the messenger": Western colloquialism meaning "to scold, or take out your resentment on, a person who is merely telling you about something offensive being done and is not the offending party themselves".

Thank you again for that , if you mean TruthSeeker, I wasn't really shooting the messenger ..I was just commenting on what he posted about civil rights and Equality..."All men are equal on behalf of their Creator"
I am deeply interested in seeing these beautifull laws being implemented in our planet that's all.

Salaam

 

[Trumble]

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I have a Q...and my Q is..

Why is it called the 'American dream'? is there a 'British Dream' also? why not call it the 'The American and British dream'? Sounds a lil lame to just call it 'American Dream'..dont u think?

The 'American Dream' and the British one are very different indeed... why do you think they had a Revolution in the first place?!

At least the American Dream is pretty much intact. Of the two, the British was the only one that ever involved colonialism and spreading 'culture' and 'civilization' across the globe, and that dream started to die in the trenches of WW1. It was dead halfway through the last century. The only recognisable English (as opposed to British) dream is to win the World Cup again!

 

[May Ayob]

I don't vote, and when it comes to Bush, Jr., for example, the answer is certainly "no". He just stole the election.

So long for Democracy and it's Protectors

so "they're" all to blame as "they" voted for him. Even if the vote was 55%-45% and for all you know you're talking to one of the people who either didn't vote or voted against him. The existence of democracy is apparently all it ever takes to make people pretend to themselves that everyone can be blamed for the actions of a small few

Yes you are correct , Generalizing is not good as i would be unjustly accuse innocent people for something that is out of their hands. Believ me i am not innocent of it my self.

Fewer apologies and fewer reasons to have to make them is the better formula, isn't it? I'm not trying to get on your case

You never did, but i don't see why? How would it make " the formula better" , Care to explain?

Thank you for your tolerance

Salaam