strange/troubling hadith are shaking my faith...

[anonymous]

i hope nobody takes offense, tries to belittle me, or dismisses my concerns here since i really am feeling troubled by all this. basically I've lately been coming across hadith that sound very strange. some disturbing, others just don't seem to make sense or they seem to clash with islam as a whole.

just recently i came across a hadith that, while not disturbing, caused me to have some doubt. it's the one that i believe is in bukhari, about the prophet adam being 90 feet tall. based on what i know, that size for a human being isn't supported by any evidence, and i don't think it's physically possible for a human to exist at that size. i heard another hadith that was about the prophet pbuh ordering people to kill lizards or geckos, saying there was a reward for doing so... why is this? doesn't this go against the general islamic rules about being kind to animals? these are just two examples of the most recent hadiths that i've found... but as i'm sure most of you know, we come across new hadiths every day, and i know i've come across others that i didn't understand... some even more confusing than these, and others that seemed disturbing or full of old superstitions.

its things like this that shake a persons faith, especially because they come from bukhari and muslim.. and those are supposed to be authentic right? if these are authentic, and our prophet pbuh was supposed to have actually uttered him... well, this is troubling... is there any advice for what to do when you come across things like this? any advice on how can i understand these things to be true? is there somewhere i can go to get trustworthy information about strange or troubling hadith? thanks in advance

 

[anonymous]

I've been thinking quite a bit about the hadith that mentions Adam being 60cubits/90feet tall... and i think i've come to some sort of conclusion... after reading through a number of hadiths that mention this, i feel like they could possibly be talking about adam when he was created originally. what i mean by that is his original creation in heaven/paradise. is it plausible to conclude that his stature was changed after he ate the fruit and was sent to earth? the hadith are not clear about this, and also... even the arabs would have seen/known that a 90 foot tall man couldn't really do much on earth... i mean... what would he do with the tiny trees? nothing would be to scale... also, the hadiths mention that we will assume this stature when we enter paradise, so therefore it must be talking about his form when he wasn't on earth, right? is this a possible interpretation?

(sorry for obsessing so much, but i worry a lot about this stuff...)

 

[anonymous]

anyone? this is really bothering me......

 

[Alpha Dude]

Wa alaykum salam

The hadith about geckos is because one helped fan the flames that Ibrahim Alaihe Salam was put in to. If Allah has placed a reward for killing geckos, then it's not a unique thing because we are rewarded for slaughtering animals on Eid ul Adha too. The fact of the matter is, it's not that we've been given a free for all pass to kill all animals as and when we please and nor is that we need to be inhumane about the manner in which the killing is carried out. Nor is it a matter of it being a compulsory thing. If we don't wish to, we don't have to. If we do so with the intention of reward, then inshaAllah that will be the case.

With regards to the height issue, this is something I don't think we can categorically assume false at all. The way I see it, if giant animals were around millions of years ago, then there is somewhat of a possibility that giant humans were around too. Possibly they had a different anatomical makeup than we humans do now, which allowed them to exist in their giant stature. We don't and can't know the specifics of how and in what form they existed. Nor do we need to know, in order to believe it - there is no scientifically agreed upon 'proof' for the existence of God in the first place.

We have belief in the Prophethood of Muhammad Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam, so we believe in his words. If you feel something contrary to his sayings is more true, then you have to remind yourself of what it was that made you believe in his Prophethood and message to begin with.

Also, recall the behaviour of Abu Bakr RA when confronted by the others on the account of the incident of miraj. He didn't doubt one bit, even though to the people of the time, the story seemed outrageous. There must have been a deeper reason for his conviction in the truth of Prophet Muhammad Sallahu Alaihe Wasalam.

See this, too.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaamu Alaaykum

I agree with brother Alpha Dude..

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As-Salaamu Alaaykum

I think maybe someone who is knowledeable can explain further..

But I will try my best

I believe the hadeeth you read was this right?

(Saheeh Bukhaari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543]

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, “Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring.” So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, “As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi” (i.e. Peace and Allah’s Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam’s salutation the expression, ‘Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,’ Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam’s creation.[1]

As far as I am aware if you read starting from 'Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam’s creation'

heres the next hadeeth narrated after this

[Sahih Bukhaari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 544]
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The first group of people who will enter Paradise, will be glittering like the full moon and those who will follow them, will glitter like the most brilliant star in the sky. They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in statute), sixty cubits tall."

'of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in stature), sixty cubits tall' it mentions in the hadeeth that everyone who will enter paradise, this is what will happen. As for the dunya or jannah, it clearly states in hadeeth number 543 that people have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation., it doesnt state jannah or dunya..someone more knowledgeable can explain this..

But I will let someone else reply to your post, more knowledgeable..

I came across a video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVLnC7tYcXQ

 

[anonymous]

With regards to the height issue, this is something I don't think we can categorically assume false at all. The way I see it, if giant animals were around millions of years ago, then there is somewhat of a possibility that giant humans were around too. Possibly they had a different anatomical makeup than we humans do now, which allowed them to exist in their giant stature. We don't and can't know the specifics of how and in what form they existed. Nor do we need to know, in order to believe it - there is no scientifically agreed upon 'proof' for the existence of God in the first place.

it's a bit hard to swallow... and based on what we do know, i think it would be physically impossible on our planet for a 90 foot tall man to exist... its true that giant animals were around, but tbh, i can't think of any land animal (living or extinct) that was near 90 feet.. thats just too big. i hope you can understand why this is so troubling for me. its difficult to just dismiss my own intellect and reason... i feel like that might start to border blind faith in something that i feel isn't true, and that scares me. a 90 foot tall man just isn't something possible from what i understand.. and just looking around on the internet didn't help at all, since most muslims out there dont' really know how to address this point either, and non muslims use it to laugh at us...

btw, was the alternate interpretation i mentioned earlier a valid one?

As-Salaamu Alaaykum

I think maybe someone who is knowledeable can explain further..

But I will try my best

I believe the hadeeth you read was this right?

(Saheeh Bukhaari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543]

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, “Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring.” So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, “As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi” (i.e. Peace and Allah’s Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam’s salutation the expression, ‘Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,’ Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam’s creation.[1]

As far as I am aware if you read starting from 'Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam’s creation'

heres the next hadeeth narrated after this

[Sahih Bukhaari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 544]
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The first group of people who will enter Paradise, will be glittering like the full moon and those who will follow them, will glitter like the most brilliant star in the sky. They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in statute), sixty cubits tall."

'of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in stature), sixty cubits tall' it mentions in the hadeeth that everyone who will enter paradise, this is what will happen. As for the dunya or jannah, it clearly states in hadeeth number 543 that people have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation., it doesnt state jannah or dunya..someone more knowledgeable can explain this..

But I will let someone else reply to your post, more knowledgeable..

I came across a video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVLnC7tYcXQ

Yes, those were the hadiths i read. i actually read about 6 of them, all from bukhari and muslim... i also noticed something peculiar.. they were all narrated by abu huraira (from what i read anyway)... is it possible he made a mistake in reporting what he heard?

 

[anonymous]

^ please try to understand where i'm coming from... just telling me to not think about it and move on isn't going to work...

 

[Asiyah3]

it's a bit hard to swallow... and based on what we do know, i think it would be physically impossible on our planet for a 90 foot tall man to exist... its true that giant animals were around, but tbh, i can't think of any land animal (living or extinct) that was near 90 feet.. thats just too big. i hope you can understand why this is so troubling for me. its difficult to just dismiss my own intellect and reason... i feel like that might start to border blind faith in something that i feel isn't true, and that scares me. a 90 foot tall man just isn't something possible from what i understand..

Why is it a bit hard to swallow? If you would've told people of the past the Earth is round or any other amazing scientific things we know about today (which may seem self-obvious to you) which they weren't aware of, they would've laughed at you too.

Even so, as Alpha Dude said

Nor do we need to know, in order to believe it

and just looking around on the internet didn't help at all, since most muslims out there dont' really know how to address this point either, and non muslims use it to laugh at us...

Don't worry about non-Muslims. We'll see who laughs at who in the Hereafter. Only pleasing Allah swt matters, we need not please others.

Yes, those were the hadiths i read. i actually read about 6 of them, all from bukhari and muslim... i also noticed something peculiar.. they were all narrated by abu huraira (from what i read anyway)... is it possible he made a mistake in reporting what he heard?

No. That is not possible at all.

Protect your faith, which is the biggest blessing from Allah and never let Satan mislead you.

 

[anonymous]

Why is it a bit hard to swallow? If you would've told people of the past the Earth is round or any other amazing scientific things we know about today (which may seem self-obvious to you) which they weren't aware of, they would've laughed at you too.

The reason this is hard to swallow is because (like i said) a 90 foot tall man would be (from what i understand) physically impossible... not to mention nonsensical if we assume the earths vegetation/creatures were still normal sized...

No. That is not possible at all.

okay... but can i ask why not? it's not particularly helpful when you just say "no. that's not possible at all" without giving any sort of explanation..

 

[anonymous]

^again, i'm sorry if it sounds like i'm being pushy with this... i just tend to obsess about small things, and i can't seem to get over this.

 

[Asiyah3]

The reason this is hard to swallow is because (like i said) a 90 foot tall man would be (from what i understand) physically impossible... not to mention nonsensical if we assume the earths vegetation/creatures were still normal sized...

DID YOU LIVE MANY MILLION YEARS AGO? Were you present at the time? We don't know how things were.

okay... but can i ask why not? it's not particularly helpful when you just say "no. that's not possible at all" without giving any sort of explanation..

You're right. I should've put an explanation. Sorry about that. Because, by common sense a Hadith cannot be a mistake of one of the best and most trustworthy companion of the Prophet (SAAS) who was very well-known for his memory simply because it doesn't fit your limited knowledge, moreover your speaking out of knowledge.

 

[Alpha Dude]

not to mention nonsensical if we assume the earths vegetation/creatures were still normal sized...

But the creatures weren't normal sized at all. They were mammoth and how do we know that the vegetation was the same size as it is now?

The way I see it, there could have been big fruits, big animals and big people.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

it's a bit hard to swallow... and based on what we do know, i think it would be physically impossible on our planet for a 90 foot tall man to exist... its true that giant animals were around, but tbh, i can't think of any land animal (living or extinct) that was near 90 feet.. thats just too big. i hope you can understand why this is so troubling for me. its difficult to just dismiss my own intellect and reason... i feel like that might start to border blind faith in something that i feel isn't true, and that scares me. a 90 foot tall man just isn't something possible from what i understand.. and just looking around on the internet didn't help at all, since most muslims out there dont' really know how to address this point either, and non muslims use it to laugh at us...

btw, was the alternate interpretation i mentioned earlier a valid one?




Yes, those were the hadiths i read. i actually read about 6 of them, all from bukhari and muslim... i also noticed something peculiar.. they were all narrated by abu huraira (from what i read anyway)... is it possible he made a mistake in reporting what he heard?

^ please try to understand where i'm coming from... just telling me to not think about it and move on isn't going to work...

As-Salaamu Alaaykum

Well as far as reading all posts on this thread, I havent seen where anyone has adviced you to move on or not to think about it.

It was advised that you understand that Allaah Allmighty is able to do all things.

Is it not hard to swallow that there are angels that exist? Hell and Heaven exists? though we have not seen them?

To prove an angel exists, intellect nor reason is required. We are told that they are made of light in the noble Qur'aan, we are told in hadeeth that an angel does not enter a home where there is either an image or dog, so that the blessings do not enter the house, so as muslims we refrain from putting images or keeping a dog within the house.

There are many muslims who cant explain everything because not everyone is the 'All aware' , 'All knower'..we as muslims are encouraged to teach as much as we know which is according to the Qur'aan and sunnah not something we do not know..and non-muslims will laugh ofcourse no doubt, know that even the Shaytaan laughs also.. And just because non-muslims use something against muslims to mock us, doesnt make it right. They even laughed when Rasool Allaah Salllaahu 'Alaayhi Wa Salaam told them he was a prophet of Allaah, despite knowing he spoke the truth, he was known as 'The Truthful one' amongst them.

Im no scholar, but I do know that Allaah is able to do all things that fit his majesty.


Allaah SWT mentions in his noble book :

"We will show them Our signs in the Universe and inside their selves, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?" (The Noble Quran, 41:53)

If you read verses 30-31 of Surah An-Naazi'aat-Those who pull out

"And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse)" (verse 30) If we read this verse in arabic : "Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha" The word 'Dahaha' translates Expanded.

"He draweth out therefrom its moisture and its pasture" (31)

I think this site will be of use : http://www.answering-christianity.com/adam_90_feet_tall.htm..

Also this and various other sites on the site : http://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm

Insha'Allaah it will become helpful..

 

[Asiyah3]

^again, i'm sorry if it sounds like i'm being pushy with this... i just tend to obsess about small things, and i can't seem to get over this.

A Muslim has million reasons to believe in Islam. One simple Hadith especially regarding this topic, about a time which we know none about, has none significance to his faith.

 

[Kabeer]

Salaam,
Well the OP has come here with what is a legitimate question. He hears something that sounds unbelievable, and he is asking, how is this possible.
All the replies he is getting are saying that just believe, if we are told it, then it is true.
Ofc if you have accepted Islam, and believe in Allah and His Prophet, then we should all start with the Premise, that we Accept totally the Word of Allah our Holy Quran, and the Sunnah religious practice of our Prophet. But one should be clear to differentiate between what is a primary and secondary source of Islam, the ahadith are secondary.

So if this truly was told by Allah & His prophet, then that is fair enough. But has anyone here actually gone to the effort of properly studying the hadith in question?
Maybe its true, or maybe there are faults there.
Why is nobody questioning the literal word in these Ahadith?

What if somebody went and killed every gekko and made them extinct. Then when you face Allah on Judgement Day, He asks you why did you murder his creatures? (if the hadith was faulty). And your only excuse was you blindly followed a tertiary source of Islam. Ofc if its true then youll be fine.

On the other hand, I can see how people like Asiyah3 and Alpha Dude take the stance of just accept it all and agree with it even if its seemingly illogical. In a way this is the easier route, and if the stories are right, then you have got a slicker route to faith.

There seems to be a conflict of feelings here. One is that some of you are feeling that qeustioning the literal validity of the hadith matn is the same as Questioning Islam or the Prophet. Maybe you should think of it rather of questioning the Hadith, which is neither the Quran or Prophet, or Sunnah, but a historical document, and the chains and context surrounding it.

So OP, the most satisfactory answer to you should be that you investigate the hadith in more depth. maybe not an easy thing. Therefore you would have to discuss specific hadith in question with scholars of the matn and isnad about those particular hadith. And then you can make a more informed view on it.

Peace

 

[anonymous]

I think this site will be of use : http://www.answering-christianity.com/adam_90_feet_tall.htm..

That site isn't trustworthy. i'm familiar with the site, and the article... after doing some research, it became very obvious that the study they cite is just a hoax.

It seems like there may be a problem within you, not with the Hadith at all.

I believe my questions are legitimate. so far people have basically just told me to "believe". That doesn't help anything. Please refrain from posting here again if you're just going to say things like this, and not actually address my concerns about the hadith..

 

[anonymous]

Apologies, i made a mistake. that article doesn't cite a false study (i was thinking of another article from the same cite..). however the idea they speak of, that the earth has been expanding/volume increasing... i did some quick research and found that this notion is rejected by those who study the field... so i don't know if that can be used as an explanation...

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

That site isn't trustworthy. i'm familiar with the site, and the article... after doing some research, it became very obvious that the study they cite is just a hoax.

What is your evidence the study they cite is a hoax?

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Apologies, i made a mistake. that article doesn't cite a false study (i was thinking of another article from the same cite..). however the idea they speak of, that the earth has been expanding/volume increasing... i did some quick research and found that this notion is rejected by those who study the field... so i don't know if that can be used as an explanation...

What does it mean when you say 'You dont know if that can be used as an explanation'?

You dont know, but what about those who have studied it?