Many Christians are Converting to Islam

[Who Am I?]

We can always bring in ED209 ...

"Please put down your weapon, you now have 20 seconds to comply... you are in direct violation of penal code 113 section 9" looool

hehe... sorry couldn't resist

Scimi

RoboCop is awesome.

"Dead or alive, you're coming with me!"

Oh, and you said "penal". ;D

 

[Burninglight]

That was cool! I hope that guy lives

 

[Muslim Woman]

I get this question all of the time. This morning I actually sent a lengthy response to this question in a FaceBook message from a high school classmate I haven't seen in 33 years.

Bro , I read in other thread that you are writing a book ? I hope , we will get the book soon .


To the OP , while reading convert stories I found that ex Christians had a problem with Trinity . Islam explains the concept of God logically - no mystery here .

 

[Who Am I?]

Bro , I read in other thread that you are writing a book ? I hope , we will get the book soon .


To the OP , while reading convert stories I found that ex Christians had a problem with Trinity . Islam explains the concept of God logically - no mystery here .

Indeed, this is something that always bothered me about Christianity, and in my opinion is why modern Christianity is not true monotheism.

 

[Burninglight]

To the OP , while reading convert stories I found that ex Christians had a problem with Trinity . Islam explains the concept of God logically - no mystery here .

So ex Christians became Muslims, because they had a problem understanding the concept of God, but Muslims can figure God's essence out logically; they understand how Allah (God) is made up (the concept of His being) through human logic and reason, and Allah is no mystery to you? Uhmm??//////???

 

[Burninglight]

Indeed, this is something that always bothered me about Christianity, and in my opinion is why modern Christianity is not true monotheism.

So how was early Christianity or the early church different than modern Christianity today in the way they viewed God's nature?

 

[Who Am I?]

So how was early Christianity or the early church different than modern Christianity today in the way they viewed God's nature?

Two words: Nicean Council.

Early "Christians" (the word didn't really exist until after the ascension of Christ) were almost identical to Muslims. The concept of the Trinity didn't come around until later.

There is actually a sect of Christianity called the Unitarians who don't believe in the Trinity either. If I was to choose Christianity again, that's probably who I would go with.

But that would mean I would accept Jesus as divine, and I'm not convinced that he was.

Oh, and Allah is still mysterious, but then there are things that man was not meant to know.

Read Lovecraft and you'll see what I mean...

 

[Burninglight]

Two words: Nicean Council.

Early "Christians" (the word didn't really exist until after the ascension of Christ) were almost identical to Muslims. The concept of the Trinity didn't come around until later.

There is actually a sect of Christianity called the Unitarians who don't believe in the Trinity either. If I was to choose Christianity again, that's probably who I would go with.

But that would mean I would accept Jesus as divine, and I'm not convinced that he was.

Oh, and Allah is still mysterious, but then there are things that man was not meant to know.

Read Lovecraft and you'll see what I mean...

But the apostles mention the Holy Spirit as being God in Acts, and the apostles mention that Jesus is the son of God and God said He is His son, and We know that the Father was mentioned way before the Nicene Council.

I am tired of hearing about Constantine. My Nephew is in a cult called the World Mission Society Church of God and the blame Constantine for Biblical corruption of church understanding so they pray to a different Christ and believe that God is on earth as a woman. The Constantine thing doesn't work for me

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

But the apostles mention the Holy Spirit as being God in Acts, and the apostles mention that Jesus is the son of God and God said He is His son, and We know that the Father was mentioned way before the Nicene Council.

I am tired of hearing about Constantine. My Nephew is in a cult called the World Mission Society Church of God and the blame Constantine for Biblical corruption of church understanding so they pray to a different Christ and believe that God is on earth as a woman. The Constantine thing doesn't work for me

So what works for you then? Believing random men who wrote the Gospels - of whom Biblical scholars ADMIT are not known who they really are and when they written - over the words and teachings of God and Christ? Are you serious?

You choose not to believe in how Constantine corrupted Christianity based purely upon your desires and your desires do not reflect the truth. The truth is you are practising Constanines religion.

"It was Constantine who changed the day
of worship from Saturday to Sunday,
despite the fact that Jesus, and all of
the apostles strictly observed the Sabbath
on Saturday. His decision was influenced
by the fact that Sun-Day was the Roman day
of worship of the Sun-God, Apollo."-The Thirteenth Disciple
Constantine and The Trinity
by Nozrem ha Brit


"Constantine decided that God was
three-in-one based on the theologians
Tertullian, Cyprian, and Augustine.
Constantine convened the council of
Nicaea in 325, in which the Creed
outlined his version of the relationship
between Jesus and the Father. It is
unfortunate that the relationship of
Constantine and his own son could not
be so close, as while he was in the West
he had his eldest son and friend, Crispus,
and his wife, Fausta, executed for reasons
that remained a mystery. All other forms of
Christianity that did not comply to
this Creed, were labeled as heretics
and were to be eliminated. To this day,
Constantine’s Nicean Creed is used as
the basis for determining who is a
Christian, which is why Jehovah’s Witnesses,
are still labelled as heretics today."


"The effects of pagan influences
on Christian traditions can most clearly
be seen in its’ celebrations, for every
single one has a pagan celebration
as its origin. One festivity that was
personally initiated by Constantine
was All Saint’s Day, quite appropriate
as the mythology of pagan traditions
were transferred to the stories of the Saints."

(We all know Easter and Christmas have their origins in Paganism - Are you going to deny that?)


"Between Constantine and cohorts,
the entire foundation of modern
Christianity was developed.
Yet perhaps we should ponder
if it would have been better for
Yeshua’s (Jesus')teachings to have
disappeared than to have them so
utterly corrupted and perpetuated
as his own."

-The Thirteenth Disciple
Constantine and The Trinity
by Nozrem ha Brit

Source: http://babylon-the-great.xanga.com/674811257/item/

Deny it all you want, it only takes a little research to find out the truth but you do not want to know the truth but you are blinded.

 

[Burninglight]

So what works for you then? Believing random men who wrote the Gospels - of whom Biblical scholars ADMIT are not known who they really are and when they written - over the words and teachings of God and Christ? Are you serious?

You choose not to believe in how Constantine corrupted Christianity based purely upon your desires and your desires do not reflect the truth. The truth is you are practising Constanines religion.

"It was Constantine who changed the day
of worship from Saturday to Sunday,
despite the fact that Jesus, and all of
the apostles strictly observed the Sabbath
on Saturday. His decision was influenced
by the fact that Sun-Day was the Roman day
of worship of the Sun-God, Apollo."-The Thirteenth Disciple
Constantine and The Trinity
by Nozrem ha Brit

Paginism has kept into "every religion" not just Christianity. Constantine's influence has been mostly on the Catholic Church. The Sabbath and Sunday are insignificant. Paul said that before Constantine. Read Ro. 14 It states that you can pick whatever day you feel confortable with. Jesus said man wasn't made for the Sabbath but SABBATH FOR THE MAN. Jesus is our rest. He is our rest from striving in our own strength to be right with God. That battle is the Lord's.

So Constantine coined the word trinity that is not in the Bible. We all know this. Tell me something I don't know. What significant thing is different about Christianity today that didn't happen for the early Church. Don't include Catholicism; they have been influence by paganism just as much as any major world religion, and I am not talking about them believing Jesus is the Son of God. Constantine didn't come up with that. It was already in the Bible and so was Christ's death and Resurrection; that was not Constantine's creation. So what is you excuse for not believing that Jesus died and rose for our sin. That was in the Bible for many decades before Muhammad and Constantine?

 

[MustafaMc]

Bro , I read in other thread that you are writing a book ? I hope , we will get the book soon .


To the OP , while reading convert stories I found that ex Christians had a problem with Trinity . Islam explains the concept of God logically - no mystery here .

Wa alaikum assalam, my respected sister in Islam, I have not begun writing a book, but I believe Brother YusufNoor has. I would really like to write a book on comparing Islam with Christianity, but I don't have the time.

For those who are interested such as yourself and Brother Scimi, here is my conversion story http://www.islamicboard.com/new-mus...im-reverts-post-yours-here-15.html#post694454 For myself as a Christian, I never had doubts about Jesus being God in human flesh (astaghfir'Allah) even though I could not logically explain it. I had accepted Jesus as my personal savior from my sins all of the way up until December 1981 when I read the Quran. This was the miracle of my life. There are many people who have read the Quran and it has meant absolutely nothing to them; whereas, for me I was able to see for the first time in my life that it is illogical to say that Jesus is the Son of God and that the Father in Heaven per the Lord's Prayer and Jesus were one and the same Divine Being. In hindsight after again reading the Bible, the most telling instance of this contradiction is the baptism of Jesus where the 3 elements of the Trinity supposedly were expressed simultaneously. Luke 3:21-22 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased. I can now see that 1) Jesus coming up from the water, 2) the Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus, and 3) the Father saying, "This is My beloved Son." could not be an illustration of Divine Unity. Others who are yet Christians still accept this as the Truth, but for myself I had an irreversible 'Paradigm Shift' where my innermost belief system changed over a mere few days of reading the Quran.

Even though I can't fully grasp Allah's (swt) nature and His eternal existence, I believe that He is One God and there is none other who has any power or might except what Allah (swt) has allowed for him. I believe that Allah (swt) exists outside of the constraints that we as humans live within, which is that of space and time. I believe that Allah (swt) is the ultimate Reality and that our universe is but an illusion. If we can imagine for a single moment our infinitesimally small size when compared to even the outer limits of this universe and how our lifetime of 70 years is like a mere fraction of a second compared to the time elapsed since the 'Big Bang', we will start to realize the insignificance of our own lives. However, despite our own personal insignificance there is meaning to it all when we realize that our purpose in life is to worship our Creator and to be kind to our neighbor.

Despite my being only one of 7 billion people, I believe that Allah (swt) guided me to Islam while yet so many remain astray of the Straight Way. This gets to my choice of 'Mustafa' for my legal name since 2004. I felt chosen, but not in the arrogant sense of superiority to the Gentile that the Jew feels. I am humbled to think that Allah (swt) chose to show me the Truth of Islam despite my own personal limitations. I ask myself, "Why me Lord, what have I ever done to deserve You loving me, and guiding me to Islam?" I proved unworthy of that guidance as I ceased to practice Islam from 1986 to 2001. At the end of that time I again felt led back to Islam as I was taking my son and my wife to the local Church of Christ so my son would have some sense of God albeit a twisted one at that. After a while I felt like a hypocrite to be going to church and listening to sermons that I no longer believed to be true. In June of 2001, I decided to practice Islam and I have been consistent since then, masha'Allah. My hope and prayer is that Allah (swt) will cause me to die not but as a Muslim and a Mumin and that He will forgive me of my sins and shortcomings.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam / Peace

So ex Christians became Muslims, because they had a problem understanding the concept of God, but Muslims can figure God's essence out logically; they understand how Allah (God) is made up (the concept of His being) through human logic and reason, and Allah is no mystery to you? Uhmm??//////???

God is one , God has power over everything , no one can harm God , God can not die , God has no partner , we must pray to God only and must not associate partner with Him - these all are so simple to understand :statisfie . Where is the mystery here ? :hmm:

 

[Abz2000]

Arius (Ἄρειος, AD 250 or 256 – 336) was a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt of Libyan origins. His teachings about the nature of the Godhead, which emphasized the Father's divinity over the Son,[1] and his opposition to the Athanasian or Trinitarian Christology, made him a controversial figure in the First Council of Nicea, convened by Roman Emperor Constantine in AD 325.
After Emperor Constantine legalized and formalized the Christianity of the time in the Roman Empire, the newly recognized Catholic Church sought to unify and clarify its theology. Trinitarian Christians, including Athanasius, used Arius and Arianism as epithets to describe those who disagreed with their doctrine of co-equal Trinitarianism, a Christology representing God the Father and Son (Jesus of Nazareth) as "of one essence" (consubstantial) and coeternal.[2]

Although virtually all positive writings on Arius' theology have been suppressed or destroyed,[3] negative writings describe Arius' theology as one in which there was a time before the Son of God, where only God the Father existed. Despite concerted opposition, 'Arian', or nontrinitarian Christian churches persisted throughout Europe and North Africa, in various Gothic and Germanic kingdoms, until suppressed by military conquest or voluntary royal conversion between the fifth and seventh centuries.
Although "Arianism" suggests that Arius was the originator of the teaching that bears his name, the debate over the Son’s precise relationship to the Father did not begin with him. This subject had been discussed for decades before his advent; Arius merely intensified the controversy and carried it to a Church-wide audience, where other "Arians" such as Eusebius of Nicomedia would prove much more influential in the long run. Eusebius of Nicomedia should not be confused with Eusebius of Caesarea (Bishop of Caesarea of Palestine), a renowned church father, a church historian and eulogistic biographer of Roman Emperor Constantine. Eusebius of Caesarea is possibly one of the drafters of the Nicean creed. In fact, some later "Arians" disavowed that moniker, claiming not to have been familiar with the man or his specific teachings.[4] However, because the conflict between Arius and his foes brought the issue to the theological forefront, the doctrine he proclaimed—though not originated by him—is generally labeled as "his".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius

 

[YusufNoor]

So how was early Christianity or the early church different than modern Christianity today in the way they viewed God's nature?

this is a VERY complicated question, we have insight and record but only in midstream. i read about this when i can, but here is a quick overview:

in Deuteronomy 6:3 Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your ancestors, promised you.

4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.[a] 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children

in Mark 12:28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

here we see agreement with the TRUE Injeel of Jesus, pbuh, with the Torah of Moses, pbuh. THIS is Islam, and it is the SAME Message of the Qur'an given to Muhammad, pbuh.

by the time we have written Gospels, 65-95AD, we see change with the biggest change in John:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

now, factually, no one knows who wrote this or where or exactly when. but somehow this anonymous document, along with Peter's [alleged] sermon in Acts [believed to have been written around the same time as John [and also of unknown origin] are the foundations of Christian theology. Peter's sermon:

Acts 2 14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]

22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]

29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

this is about 65 years AFTER the Message of Jesus, pbuh, and again no one knows who wrote this. by the end of the second century CE, these words are accepted by nearly all of the Christians as truthful and correct. there are records of it being accepted earlier by many, but i'm showing here where i disagree with Bart Ehrman. up to this point, speculation on EXACTLY what these words mean isn't a large part of the historical record. what IS recorded is that the key was accepting these words as true. there are historical records of church leader [and others] DYING for these words. as Christianity spread, it did so in the "Greek" world, as Grrek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. the Greek traditions are based upon Philosophy, which Aristotle and his followers expounded. debate was a "Greek thing, so to speak. naturally, once the ideas of Christianity spread, there began "debate" on just what these words meant.the word trinity doesn't come into play until the late 2nd century CE. as early as Plato, on of Aristotle's chief successors, we have the concept of a trinity in the "prime mover." thus, the "educated" world [which is pondering/accepting Christianity] is now trying "comprehend" rather than just accept these words.

by Niceae, the debate centers around the "beginning." did Jesus begin? how can you be monotheistic and have 2 gods? the Arian position was that God created Jesus 1st, then Jesus created everything. Athanasius argued that Jesus always "was". Athanasius won the debate. HOWEVER, most assume that this then became the position of the Empire under Constantine, it didn't. in fact, on his deathbed, Constantine was baptized by an Arian Bishop. his successors were Arian. while most of the views of Athanasius became the majority view, it took a long time to come about. you see, Athanasius spent a great deal of his life in exile.

next, debates sprang about whether or not Jesus was subordinate to God, became God at some point in his life and whether or not Mary was literally the "mother of God".

by 451CE, we see the final arguments centering on the "nature" of Jesus. was he fully God when he was human? partially? Chalcedon decided this question. while the "question" was decided, many still disagreed.

in Sixth Ecumenical Council: Constantinople III (680-681), we see the Chalcedon position finally being a concrete part of the faith. to believe otherwise, is to be heretic.

the position of the Holy Spirit began to take center stage in the late 4th century CE. you can review these progressions here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm

it's a fascinating subject and yet few pursue it.

now, granted this is a very superficial overview, but it is what it is.

:wa:

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

So Constantine coined the word trinity that is not in the Bible. We all know this. Tell me something I don't know.

How could you say that Constantine had no significance for "Biblical Christians" when he coined the very term which is fundamentals of your faith by which your faith would no longer exist if it was not true - The trinity. He influenced your religion much more than you will ever want to accept. But the facts are as clear as day light but it is just that you do no WISH to believe them.

 

[Burninglight]

God is one , God has power over everything , no one can harm God , God can not die , God has no partner , we must pray to God only and must not associate partner with Him - these all are so simple to understand . Where is the mystery here ?

I don't have a problem with this. I agree!

 

[Burninglight]

How could you say that Constantine had no significance for "Biblical Christians" when he coined the very term which is fundamentals of your faith by which your faith would no longer exist if it was not true - The trinity. He influenced your religion much more than you will ever want to accept. But the facts are as clear as day light but it is just that you do no WISH to believe them.

Because, Biblical Christians lived before constantine

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Because, Biblical Christians lived before constantine

Yes and the trinity was created hundreds of years AFTER Christ.

How could a fundamental concept of your faith suddenly appear "out of the blue" hundreds of years later?

 

[Burninglight]

Yes and the trinity was created hundreds of years AFTER Christ.

How could a fundamental concept of your faith suddenly appear "out of the blue" hundreds of years later?

Show me where I deny that the term "trinity" was created hundreds of years after Christ and I'll beome a Muslim.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Show we where I deny that the term "trinity" was created hundreds of years after Christ and I'll beome a Muslim.

Show me where i stated you denied it?

I am merely asking you how a fundamental concept of your faith which was NOT be included anywhere in the Bible nor was it ever even mentioned by God or Jesus be created hundreds of years after Christ?