CANCER: Conventional Treatment vs Alternative (Natural) Treatment

[جوري]

Cancer dilemma: do you swat mosquitoes or drain the swamp?


Perhaps the main difference between American cancer doctors and their German counterparts is that the American doctors only focus on the symptom of cancer, which is the tumor. But that’s like swatting mosquitoes. After you’ve swatted one, another one soon appears.

That’s the way it is with cancer, if you focus only on the tumor. What good does it do to get rid of a tumor if another one grows back?

“Swatting mosquitoes” doesn’t cut it. You have to get at the root cause. You have to drain the swamp! And that’s why the select German cancer doctors in my report are so successful. Of course, they’re good at getting rid of tumors, but they also focus on the root causes of cancer: toxicity in the body and improper diet.

The typical cancer patient’s body is sludged up with all kinds of toxins that must come out of the body. American cancer doctors totally ignore this toxic mess, while German doctors use effective therapies to get rid of it.

This was clearly written by someone who has no idea about types of cancers or cancer treatments in America!
I am the first one to point out what's wrong with this country. But Medicine in the U.S is bar none!
and a large number of doctors in the U.S are from the middle east and Asia!

also addendum to the above. It would be a very lucky thing indeed if we're able to eviscerate a cancer once you get venous, multi nodal involvement and to the deeper muscularis propria no amount of resection is going to help.. The DNA itself is damaged.. The person who writes these articles is just misleading people, especially to the etiology of disease, I am not going to even touch upon treatment!

 

[FS123]

I watched this on Ted few days ago, a man cured himself of cancer.
ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dave_debronkart_meet_e_patient_dave.html

That was very good, thanks!

 

[piXie]

Just adding this documentary here too, and bumping this thread. Pls raise awareness.



CANCER: THE FORBIDDEN CURES

 

[Snowflake]

Member X: If a fish is ill because of contaminated water, will you give it a drug or change the water?

Excellent!

And do not be cast into ruin by your own hands.... (2:195) The principle of Prophetic Medicine is to not cause harm. And the medicine itself should rid the body of harmful substances not increase them.

 

[Salahudeen]

What was the combination of herbs that the lady in the video used to cure it??

 

[جوري]

Just adding this documentary here too, and bumping this thread. Pls raise awareness.

When people have cancer I assure you they don't care for this kind of awareness. Many cancers change the structure of the DNA itself so that the immune system doesn't recognize the cancer cells as foreign for the immune system to attack.
I invite you t share with me the mechanism of action by which the 'Natural' cures work.
Cancer treatments are deadly because they target the cell with hopes that it will put cancer cells into remission or arrest.
Stem cells are being used to make this more target specific however it is a known fact that people will die either of the cancer or the medications, and the alternative stuff doesn't do much to change the fact of the matter save act as a placebo.
One case or two aren't reflective of the population at large, because even with the worst stage IV GBM some 1% will make it past two years.. to suggest that it is because they took some alternative crap is naive at best.
I feel very strongly against what you guys write here not just as a physician but because I have had more than one member of my family and friends succumb to cancer which could have otherwise been treated if caught at an early stage for listening to quacks.
My aunt has advanced breast cancer now because she kept taking 'alternate' cures until her cancer metastasized you should see her now with her skin necrotic and cancer in her bone.
Walhi I'd fear Allah with what you're putting out there to delude people into thinking that there's hope in something where you can't prove nor have given solid scientific evidence to how it works or some double blind study to prove that it is anything but placebo.
The success rate for a GIST tumor with imatinib mesylate is over 90% over five years or what would you recommend in this case? and do you have data to show similar success using 'alternative'?

 

[piXie]

:salamext: ukhtee,

Im short for time due to exams again, but I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your aunt & other friends and family members. I am not sure which alternate treatment your aunt used as there are many out there, but I just wanted to bring your attention to the link below. I've not had a chance to read it properly yet but I would like it if you could please look into it and investigate it further. May Allaah grant shifaa to your aunt and all those suffering from cancer. Aameen.

http://www.anti-aging-health.com/GermanCBT.pdf

The doctors contact details should also be in the link and the list of therapies they use, including chemotherapy in low doses if deemed neccessary. You are right that some cancers are not recognised by the immune system but according to the German doctors, there are therapies for that too (e.g. dendritic cell vaccines).

.....

where you can't prove nor have given solid scientific evidence to how it works or some double blind study to prove that it is anything but placebo.

Did u get a chance to watch the documentary?

If u are interested in looking into this further, it is best that you speak to those doctors in Germany.

P.S. JazakAllaahu Khayr for your patience.

 

[Muhaba]

Surah Al-Fatiha. it is a Ruqya. there are hadith about it that if you read it, you will be cured with Allah's permission and if not, then you will get Jannah. so read Surah Al-fatiha many many times on the cancer patient and insha-Allah they will be cured. also, pray Salati-hajjah daily and ask for cure.

 

[جوري]

I am not interested in looking at third party information that have no semblance of science in them.
I have asked and give you an example of a drug for cancer where the success rate is over 90% and asked that you grant me the same courtesy by showing me alternate meds that can do that. It is really that simple.
Allah swt didn't ask us to pray the diseases away only, anymore than we'd be granted victory merely out of praying. Maryam PBUH didn't have dates fall upon her from the sky while pregnant she was commanded to shake the palm tree.. I hope you see a theme here?
Yes there two types of cures that are spoken of, one of Ruqya and that is called ' a la ma3qool' and the other known as medicine, they didn't have the diseases that we have now then to use the things you suggest then for now. Nor did the prophet PBUH make it a prohibition to seek proper medicine in fact we're told for every ailment there's a cure.
I am asking you to evince what you say with some science not words, don't send me to speak to doctors in Germany, that does nothing for me and it does nothing for people who have cancer in late stages and mets.
I am asking you to reflect on the words you put out as if authoritative and reflect on what course you personally would take when faced with such a situation of your own mortality with young kids at hand.
My uncle's wife recently died leaving him three young kids, he himself had a triple bypass would you suggest he also pray that away and take some honey and black seed to remove a three vessel blockage?

 

[Muhaba]

of course one has to get tests done and conventional treatment where it exists but at the same time do dua. unfortunately some cancers don't have a cure and many ppl are dying of it. chemotherapy and other treatment dont work for them and the cancer spreads, causing many to die.

but dua & ruqya does work even where other treatment fails.

May Allah have mercy on your uncle's wife and give patience to the rest of the family. ameen

 

[جوري]

Not all cancer drugs are meant simply to cure.. sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, we've to give it a try and forge forward with research. I have not said anything against Ruqya and du3a in fact strongly adhere to:

Ash-Shu'ara (The Poets)> [26:80]
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Ash-Shu'ara (The Poets)[26:80] [RECITE]

[top] [next match]​

Waitha maridtu fahuwa yashfeeni​

26:80 "And when I am ill, it is He Who cures me;

but that also denotes all the means that Allah swt gave us to combat that, spiritually and physically for they both go hand in hand.
I feel very strongly against giving such detrimental advise as is given here with so-called alternative cures as it happens one in three people will suffer from cancer. So it is something to think about when 'spreading the word' just because everyone suffers from cancer doesn't also mean everyone dies of it and that is because of advances in modern medicine a science that Allah swt gave us and resources he left us in the earth and knowledge he made manifest in us to forge forward. I have already demonstrated that not everything 'Natural' is without harm and given an example of cardiac glycosides which are extracted from plants.
Natural things are still subjected to synthesis in the body and that happens through known means, through physiology that we have an understanding of. And Allah swt commanded us to seek knowledge, that it is a way to Jannah and undoubtedly useful for there here and now as well.
There's no magic involved here..


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[Insaanah]

Looking at the link above, I've skimmed through and got to page 33, and see case reports of success stories. What there is no mention of however, is how many people came to each clinic, the treatment did not help them, and they did not survive. Conventional cancer treatments are put down in the link due to the number of people that suffer side effects or die anyway, but that is because all these statistics are reported in trials; the good and the bad.

There will always be some success stories, but we have got to put this into context and see what the bigger and overall picture is.

Some chemotherapy is of natural origin, from plants and trees, to marine sponges. Certainly there may be some alternative treatments worth investigating, but first of all those reporting on the success stories must report transparently, and that includes reporting on the number of those who undertook the said treatments and their cancer progressed on them, and they died, to present an accurate and truthful picture, not one that shows only what they want people to see.

Sometimes you see reports such as "what your doctor doesn't want you to know or is afraid to tell you" which are highly unprofessional and damaging for Dr/patient relationships. I know doctors that have been happy for their patients to have certain alternative treatments along side their chemotherapy, such as mistletoe injections. Those patients all died of their disease. And a couple of patients that went to the German clinics, who also died. But this divide and sowing of mistrust by some alternative practitioners is unhelpful. There really doesn't need to be a divide. Many doctors would love for there to be clinically proven less toxic treatments. Indeed one of the deciding factors in choosing which chemotherapy is suitable for a patient is whether the patient is likely tolerate it's toxicity, and if the patient is not young and fit, a less toxic regime is chosen.

Cancer is a complex and aggressive disease. The causes are complex (and many postulated causes such as pollution, mobile waves etc, did not exist at the time of the Prophet :saws. More often than not it is not a case of it just being cured. It can go into remission, recur, metastasize to lungs, liver, bones etc. Hopefully, nobody will take internet forums such as this one as a basis on which to base their decisions as to what treatment they undertake. We are responsible for doing our best and giving it the best chance we can leaving the rest to Allah. That includes seeking the best and most effective treatments with the data and resources we have available, and making du3a. That is not to suggest that lifestyle and diet changes for the future cannot be undertaken to to try to prevent it's recurrence, or an attempt made to eliminate any causes if they are known, or certain changes cannot be taken alongside. But to suggest that one should either make du3a as their sole treatment, or undertake treatements based on isolated reports, is frightening. We are all responsible as to what we do to ourselves, but moreso what we tell others. There's nothing wrong with doing research to see what else is out there and what people are doing, but it must be presented transparently, warts and all.

 

[جوري]

^^ Ma shaa Allah.. Baraka Allah feeki.. you've a way of wording it like I never could..

 

[piXie]

There will always be some success stories, but we have got to put this into context and see what the bigger and overall picture is.

Insaanah, I agree with your post, but the bigger and overall picture is Big Pharma want Big Bucks and we are the victims to their mass brainwashing.

 

[جوري]

Insaanah, I agree with your post, but the bigger and overall picture is Big Pharma want Big Bucks and we are the victims to their mass brainwashing.

Please if I may interject.. who makes the alternative treatments? Small nameless companies who also want to cash in on people's miseries banking on a portion of the population to be brainwashed from the opposite pole though are a smaller herd?

 

[Snowflake]

[منوة الخيال;[1526906]
One case or two aren't reflective of the population at large, because even with the worst stage IV GBM some 1% will make it past two years.. to suggest that it is because they took some alternative crap is naive at best.

Of course there will always be bogus doctors in both old and modern medical practices sis. But we can't put down the principles of holistic medicine, since even Prophetic medicine embraces remedies from such medical systems (Indian and Chinese) which existed before his time. Never did Rasulullah (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) or the Companians take chemical mixtures (pharmacopoeia) even though it was the medicine of the Greeks and Romans. The biggest proof that alternative remedies work is given by Rasulullah himself in the words, "In Black seed is a cure for all disease - except death.) This means we have to believe it cures cancer and all other disease as well. The reason why treatments fail is because disease needs to be recognized and treated by a specific stage, after that medicine may become ineffective. The same applies to conventional medicine as well.Thus alternative medicine is not a failure. It's the lack of research and the correct administration of treatment that has lead people to feel skeptical about it.

My aunt has advanced breast cancer now because she kept taking 'alternate' cures until her cancer metastasized you should see her now with her skin necrotic and cancer in her bone.

Sorry to hear that sis. May Allah have mercy on your Aunt and grant her shif'a kamil. Ameen. The Prophet taught us that if a cure is destined from Allah, then a medicine will work and if it isn't then nothing will bring a cure for the disease.


Walhi I'd fear Allah with what you're putting out there to delude people into thinking that there's hope in something where you can't prove nor have given solid scientific evidence to how it works or some double blind study to prove that it is anything but placebo.
The success rate for a GIST tumor with imatinib mesylate is over 90% over five years or what would you recommend in this case? and do you have data to show similar success using 'alternative'?
[/QUOTE]

Why must everything be proven by science to be believable? In fact if we're to follow solely what has been proven by science then we should ditch drugs altogether because science has proven that drugs are harmful and can cause side effects which are sometimes fatal - not to mention drug induce liver disease, suicide from depression whilst on anti-depressants.. the list is large.


As you fear for us, those of us who embrace the holistic approach to health and well-being fear what conventional medicine is doing to those who opt for such toxic substances to be fed into their bodies. What other diseases are manifesting inside them like timebombs. Why should we choose something that is poisonous itself and not in accordance with Prophetic medicine? The Prophetic said to seek medicine but prohibited causing harm in any way or form. When he was asked about alcohol as a cure, he replied, “It is not a medicine but a disease.” Some people will argue that the Prophet only forbade alcohol as medicine because it intoxicates and may lead to addiction. Then by the same token this reasoning could also be applied to sedatives and addictive drugs - not forgetting that addiction of prescription drugs is remedied with yet more drugs to help the patient deal with withdrawal symptoms.


Should the above hadith be taken only for the prohibition of alcohol as medicine or as a general prohibition for all that is harmful to physical and mental health, when another hadith states:

Hadith Rasulullah s.a.w. from Abu Darda' r.a.
"Verily ALLAH sends down illness and the cure, and had made for every illness a cure.
So seek treatment but do not treat with things that are of haram."
- hadith Abu Daud, Kitab atTibb, hadith #3870

“They ask you what is lawful to them (as food): say: Lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure.” (Qur’an 5:4)




Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There should be neither causing harm nor reciprocating harm.”
​

Islam has clarified halal and haram and everything that is harmful falls into the catagory of haram. Allah has permitted only which is good and pure. If we still want to support the use of harmful drugs by saying that necessity overrides prohibition, then first we have to define necessity first. In the case of necessity, swine flesh is allowed for survival when there is no other food available. Taking toxic drugs to treat non life-threatening conditions, when there's safe and organic alternatives available, doesn't fall under necessity. It's just an option - one that is absolutely unnecessary.

 

[جوري]

Of course there will always be bogus doctors in both old and modern medical practices sis. But we can't put down the principles of holistic medicine, since even Prophetic medicine embraces remedies from such medical systems (Indian and Chinese) which existed before his time. Never did Rasulullah (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) or the Companians take chemical mixtures (pharmacopoeia) even though it was the medicine of the Greeks and Romans. The biggest proof that alternative remedies work is given by Rasulullah himself in the words, "In Black seed is a cure for all disease - except death.) This means we have to believe it cures cancer and all other disease as well. The reason why treatments fail is because disease needs to be recognized and treated by a specific stage, after that medicine may become ineffective. The same applies to conventional medicine as well.Thus alternative medicine is not a failure. It's the lack of research and the correct administration of treatment that has lead people to feel skeptical about it

Let me ask you this. Did the prophet PBUH offer black seed as a cure to the woman who suffered seizures? And do you think if the modern day medicine we'd to control them was available if he'd deny her such a treatment?

Sorry to hear that sis. May Allah have mercy on your Aunt and grant her shif'a kamil. Ameen. The Prophet taught us that if a cure is destined from Allah, then a medicine will work and if it isn't then nothing will bring a cure for the disease.

Why must everything be proven by science to be believable? In fact if we're to follow solely what has been proven by science then we should ditch drugs altogether because science has proven that drugs are harmful and can cause side effects which are sometimes fatal - not to mention drug induce liver disease, suicide from depression whilst on anti-depressants.. the list is large.

Science has proven that any xenobiotic is harmful. I have already said so before and conceded that even grapefruit juice can be harmful, so what exactly is the point? to forgo that which is tried and true for something magical? There's a science to everything even to hadith, and knowledge is what Allah swt commanded so why should we forgo that?

As you fear for us, those of us who embrace the holistic approach to health and well-being fear what conventional medicine is doing to those who opt for such toxic substances to be fed into their bodies. What other diseases are manifesting inside them like timebombs. Why should we choose something that is poisonous itself and not in accordance with Prophetic medicine? The Prophetic said to seek medicine but prohibited causing harm in any way or form. When he was asked about alcohol as a cure, he replied, “It is not a medicine but a disease.” Some people will argue that the Prophet only forbade alcohol as medicine because it intoxicates and may lead to addiction. Then by the same token this reasoning could also be applied to sedatives and addictive drugs - not forgetting that addiction of prescription drugs is remedied with yet more drugs to help the patient deal with withdrawal symptoms.

Perhaps you haven't come across the ahadith that state necessity overrides prohibition? It is haram to burn with fire, yet that's how the prophet was cauterized when he was bleeding in the battle of uhud. Why do we pick and choose the parts we adhere to and not the rest?

Islam has clarified halal and haram and everything that is harmful falls into the catagory of haram. Allah has permitted only which is good and pure. If we still want to support the use of harmful drugs by saying that necessity overrides prohibition, then first we have to define necessity first. In the case of necessity, swine flesh is allowed for survival when there is no other food available. Taking toxic drugs to treat non life-threatening conditions, when there's safe and organic alternatives available, doesn't fall under necessity. It's just an option - one that is absolutely unnecessary

.

See above and please don't prohibit that which Allah swt made lawful.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Taking toxic drugs to treat non life-threatening conditions, when there's safe and organic alternatives available, doesn't fall under necessity. It's just an option - one that is absolutely unnecessary.

Sis, not enough evidence that these things work.

I have tried everything under the sun to treat my acne ... it never went away except those "poisonous" drugs such as accutane ..... and indeed what a poison. I was unlucky. But accutane has been a "miracle drug" for couple of people I personally know. They took it in way more dosage than I did ... they just had good qadr.

 

[Snowflake]

[منوة الخيال;1527333] Let me ask you this. Did the prophet PBUH offer black seed as a cure to the woman who suffered seizures? And do you think if the modern day medicine we'd to control them was available if he'd deny her such a treatment?

No -- but he (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) never sent her to Greece to get compound medicine either - but told her to have patience. I wouldn't be so confident either that the Prophet would've allowed her modern medication due to the harmful side effects of drugs when epilepsy is curable by many alternative methods. Just reading those little leaflets in the box are enough to give a person palpitations.

Science has proven that any xenobiotic is harmful. I have already said so before and conceded that even grapefruit juice can be harmful, so what exactly is the point? to forgo that which is tried and true for something magical? There's a science to everything even to hadith, and knowledge is what Allah swt commanded so why should we forgo that?

That grapefruit juice, even orange juice, or anything else for that matter can be harmful, is exactly what a holistic practitioner would know as well as all of which foods/substances are harmful in a particular disease and which promote healing. This is what you have to understand, that just because alternative medicine uses organic substances, it doesn't advocate the use of all things for all people. If you read the medicine of the Prophet from cover to cover you'll gain a better understand of how the body heals itself and how alternative remedies support the body's natural healing mechanism without harming it. Like you said there's a science to everything.

Perhaps you haven't come across the ahadith that state necessity overrides prohibition? It is haram to burn with fire, yet that's how the prophet was cauterized when he was bleeding in the battle of uhud. Why do we pick and choose the parts we adhere to and not the rest?

I know the said hadith, but shariah defines necessity as a last resort when no other option is available. The Prophet (PBUH) was cauterized out of necessity as the alternative was *I don't wish to say something like that about Rasulullah (PBUH)*. But most illnesses don't lead to death. I think you're propagating necessity into that which isn't and can be treated without modern medicine. So it isn't necessary to poison oneself while there's safe alternatives available. Forgive me if I'm wrong but it feels that you disagree with that and advocate modern medicine for all things while forsaking any thing that isn't proven by science.

See above and please don't prohibit that which Allah swt made lawful.

I'm sorry but how is not advocating harmful drugs prohibiting the lawful? Please try to understand and separate the two facts that necessity means as a last resort and in a genuine case of necessity, I wouldn't object to modern med (as you can see from my vote). But islam prohibits harm. Saying that is not prohibiting anything that Allah made permissible.


:wa:

 

[جوري]

No -- but he (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) never sent her to Greece to get compound medicine either - but told her to have patience. I wouldn't be so confident either that the Prophet would've allowed her modern medication due to the harmful side effects of drugs when epilepsy is curable by many alternative methods. Just reading those little leaflets in the box are enough to give a person palpitations.

Greece wasn't the only center for medicine and Arabs used many substances themselves. It was said that even Khalid ibn ilwaleed sat in alcohol baths for his wounds from war. I wouldn't speak of what the prophet would have done, since you already alleged that black seed is a cure for all and the prophet PBUH didn't offer her that as a cure for all. Yet he PBUH said for every ailment there's a cure. Now I am curious what 'Natural' treatment there's for epilepsy? Do you know what triggers and epileptic seizure? Do you know the pathophsiology of a seizure? Any 'Natural' cure will have to address the rapid firing of nerves, I am deeply deeply curious at what that natural alternative is that offers a cure. Because I am looking to get my Nobel and make some money.

That grapefruit juice, even orange juice, or anything else for that matter can be harmful, is exactly what a holistic practitioner would know as well as all of which foods/substances are harmful in a particular disease and which promote healing. This is what you have to understand, that just because alternative medicine uses organic substances, it doesn't advocate the use of all things for all people. If you read the medicine of the Prophet from cover to cover you'll gain a better understand of how the body heals itself and how alternative remedies support the body's natural healing mechanism without harming it. Like you said there's a science to everything.

supplements and nutrition aren't a cure.

I know the said hadith, but shariah defines necessity as a last resort when no other option is available. The Prophet (PBUH) was cauterized out of necessity as the alternative was *I don't wish to say something like that about Rasulullah (PBUH)*. But most illnesses don't lead to death. I think you're propagating necessity into that which isn't and can be treated without modern medicine. So it isn't necessary to poison oneself while there's safe alternatives available. Forgive me if I'm wrong but it feels that you disagree with that and advocate modern medicine for all things while forsaking any thing that isn't proven by science.

You simply don't know about most illnesses and that's what the problem is. I don't know what natural cure you have for crigler najjar or zollinger-ellison or tay sachs dz. or hidradenitis suppurativa the diseases are endless .. just because you've not heard of them nor were they manifest centuries ago does it mean they don't exist. A few of the sahabis died of the plague like Moath ibn Jabal. We have a cure for the plague now should we simply forgo because you think that it is haram? What branch of Islam is that which prohibits seeking treatment as this is the first time I have come across this. You think everything is the flu or a cold or a gall bladder attack, then why do people literally waste a life time studying and specilizing for even in every displine are such finite things that it is an art form all its own.

I'm sorry but how is not advocating harmful drugs prohibiting the lawful? Please try to understand and separate the two facts that necessity means as a last resort and in a genuine case of necessity, I wouldn't object to modern med (as you can see from my vote). But islam prohibits harm. Saying that is not prohibiting anything that Allah made permissible.

Sometimes we've to use our brains on what is lawful and what isn't. As I said the things I mentioned above are a very miniscule amount of the gamut of diseases that exist out there that need either aggressive treatment or even genetic, stem cell treatment and nothing is without harm even so-called 'Natural' meds which by the way alot of conventional medications we'e are synthesized from.
Yes I think if we've the machinery to figure out just how contaminated a well is then there's no need at guess work of following an ijtihad of a scholar that tells me take out 15 pails to decontaminate.
I have no clue what you mean by alternative medicine and I am still waiting for that break through but the unfortunate reality is, it alot of talk and no results. By the time people figure it out they're already knocking on death's door.
I hope you realize that you're my sister and I love but I'll fulfill my duty before God first when I see something that I truly believe isn't compatible with Islam or common sense..