CANCER: Conventional Treatment vs Alternative (Natural) Treatment

[جوري]

I am not going t touch upon that whole funny bit about alkaline or acidic body state as in both aren't compatible with life, be that as it may I'll comment on the below bit:

Cancer is essentially a modern man-made disease. There is evidence of it existing in ancient history, but cancer was extremely rare in ancient history, except in cities with cases of mass poisoning (again a man-made disease). Now, cancer is expected to strike one person out of every three, and this rate is rising rapidly.

Cancer has always existed and we have many documented cases that go back to ancient Egypt. The only reason you see it now with more abundance is that the life expectancy today isn't what it was centuries upon centuries ago and that's largely due to the will of Allah through the instrument of modern medicine. True that new cancers exist today but then again how do you expect new and modern diseases with medicines from back then? Cancer is simply a disease of the aged if you live long enough your cells will get tired of break down, growth and repair and apoptosis .. anything can go wrong at any moment. It isn't inconceivable that you as a human being can make a mistake in the work you do daily even if you do the same thing everyday? We're meant to die and this is one of the ways that happens.. cells AGE there's no fountain of youth!
Cancer isn't normally something infectious and by that I mean it causes a change in the very DNA so the body doesn't recognize it as foreign (I have already spoken of this on the previous page) sometimes certain infectious diseases for instance Hepatitis B or C can transform to something cancerous but what it is, a cells of the body translating and transcribing and repairing wrong.
Until I see the mechanism of action of these so-called natural treatments and how they specifically target cancer I am unconvinced of otherwise mere words written here!

 

[piXie]

:wasalamex

Zaria, I am not posting random claims by lay people who do not have any background in science or oncology. These are medical trained doctors carrying out these alternative treatments.

You will not accept websites, patient testimonials, words of medical doctors, or factual documentaries as evidence, but you will accept Wikipedia as evidence to put Dr Budwig and her diet to rest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johanna_Budwig

"The prime cause of cancer is the replacement of the normal oxygen respiration of body cells by an anaerobic cell respiration." - Otto Warburg (twice Nobel Laureate)

Will we dismiss Dr. Otto Warburg and his research too?

Dr. Johanna Budwig was born in Germany and she devoted her life to cancer research and was often referred to as the top cancer research scientist in Europe. She was also a biochemist and physicist who was a leading authority on fats, oils and nutrition. For her research and practice, Johanna was nominated for seven Nobel Prizes, but was kept from receiving any of them by the German pharmaceutical and medical industries that subjected her to endless vilification and harassment and blocked the publication of her writings and clinical studies.

I am the first one to point out what's wrong with this country. But Medicine in the U.S is bar none!

you accept there is alot wrong with this counrty, from political interests, propaganda, bias reporting and lies etc but you dont accept this could be happening in the medical fields. Medicine in the U.S bar none, because that is regulated by organisations such as the FDA who are known for their sincerity and high moral standards? :ermm:

That is

naive at best.

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Flaxseed Oil and Tumours:
After original and exhaustive research which included years of clinical trials, Dr. Budwig proved beyond doubt that unheated and unprocessed flaxseed oil could provide the body with the essential fatty acids that would replenish the loss of critically needed phosphatides and lipoproteins missing from the diets of many people of her time and are missing to an even greater degree in the diets of people today.
Through blood analysis of many cancer patients, Johanna determined that cancer patients were always grossly deficient in these critical nutrients. Blood samples from all patients with later stage cancer revealed a greenish yellow substance in place of normal, healthy red oxygen carrying hemoglobin indicating an inability of the blood to transport oxygen to the cells. After she treated them for a few months with daily doses of flaxseed oil, their cancer tumours gradually receded and the unhealthy blood color was replaced by healthy red blood cells. This change in blood color signaled the rise of phosphatide and lipoprotein levels.

Water Soluble Fats:
Dr. Budwig's discovery of how to make the fats water soluble was her crowning moment. She realised that fats become water soluble and able to pass through the cell membrane only when they are bound to a protein such as that in cottage cheese to form a lipoprotein.

Damaging Fats:
She was adamantly against the use of hydrogenated, partially hydrogenated, and polyunsaturated fats. She saw the chemical processing of these fats as damaging to every organ in the body. The heart rejects these fats and they end up as inorganic fatty deposits on the heart muscle, blocking circulation, damaging heart action, inhibiting cell renewal and disrupting the normal flow of blood and lymph fluids.
Budwig Diet Success:
Johanna's patients were those so terminally ill that traditional medical practitioners had given up on them, with many having been given only days or hours to live. She treated these patients with a simple diet based on a combination of flax oil and quark, the European version of cottage cheese. Her published research is full of testimonials from people around the world who were diagnosed with terminal cancer and were completely cured by the Budwig diet. The benefits of Johanna's research extend to the healing of anyone with any of the major debilitating diseases. There are thousands of documented cases of recovery from cancer using the `Budwig Protocol`.

Dr. Johanna Budwig in `Flax Oil as a True Aid ...`
"What she (Dr. Johanna Budwig) has demonstrated to my initial disbelief, but lately to my complete satisfaction in my practice is: CANCER IS EASILY CURABLE, the treatment is dietary / lifestyle, the response is immediate; the cancer cell is weak and vulnerable; the precise biochemical breakdown point was identified by her in 1951 and is specifically correctable, in vitro (test-tube) as well as in vivo (real)..."
Dr. Dan C. Roehm M.D. FACP, oncologist & former cardiologist, in "Townsend Letter for Doctors", July 1990

"Of all the nutritional theories that I have investigated, Dr. Johanna Budwig's is definitely number one ... Nowhere in the world have I found not even remotely such fantastic cases as with Dr. Budwig. It's phenomenal."
Lothar Hirneise, eminent German cancer researcher and author of `Chemotherapy Heals Cancer and The Earth Is Flat`

"Over 50% of Dr. Budwig's patients were doctors or relatives of doctors who knew why in such a serious disease they would rely on the experiences of this brilliant physicist, chemist and pharmacologist rather than follow the prevailing opinion which says that tumors must be destroyed through chemotherapy and radiation."

http://www.healthandhealing.revolutionoftruth.com/healthandhealing_002.htm

A practitioner I know works closely with cancer patients. They have to send their cancer patients out of the country for treatments because they are illegal in the country they are in (UK and America). They told me about B17.

B17 (Laetrile)
The names, professional standings, medical achievements, and clinical findings of some of the more prominent doctors who endorse Laetrile; the beneficial side-effects produced by its use; a suggested anti-cancer diet; and a brief description of vitamin B15.

“Laetrile is go*****ed quackery!” Such was the pronouncement of Helene Brown, president of the American Cancer Society of California. (1) As early as 1974, there were at least twenty-six published papers written by well-known physicians who had used Laetrile in the treatment of their own patients and who have concluded (2) that Laetrile is both safe and effective in the treatment of cancer. In addition, there are the voluminous private records of physi-cians who have used it clinically but have never published their findings except in letters to their colleagues or in public lectures or interviews. The American Cancer Society and other spokesmen. for orthodox medicine would have us believe that only quacks and crackpots have endorsed this conclusion. But the doctors who conducted these experiments and those who share their conclusions are not quacks.

More for those who wish to investigate this further: http://worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/quacks.html

Until I see the mechanism of action of these so-called natural treatments and how they specifically target cancer I am unconvinced of otherwise mere words written here!

Are you waiting for the FDA to show you? :ermm:

It’s not my job to convince anybody and with all due respect – to label clear facts as mere words because they challenge your set beliefs and orthodox training, is a disservice, not only to yourself but also to your patients. If you really want to see the mechanism of action and learn more about these treatments, then to start with, the least you can do is contact the medical doctors & practitioners in those fields and learn more about naturopathic medicine, what have you got to lose. Atleast the FDA did that much, albeit for the wrong reasons – I’ll give them that much credit.

 

[جوري]

The science I subscribe to isn't a 'set of beliefs' It's intricate and on a cellular level when myself or a collegue do research we submit it!
So the FDA gets shown by us how something works not the other way around!
And if the other way around then it's also peer reviewed and subject to our critique!
Much of what we do is a failure and gets rejected and what doesn't get rejected goes through four phase trials!
So in fact a set of belief is what you're posting above and what you subscribe to!
We've flax seed on daily basis as it's a part of our diet -honey yogurt my aunt still has bilateral ductal ca. With mets to the bones!

 

[جوري]

"The prime cause of cancer is the replacement of the normal oxygen respiration of body cells by an anaerobic cell respiration." - Otto Warburg (twice Nobel Laureate)

You should read his research in totality and post it here, in fact I challenge you to, and at the same time use that research to show us how it would put cancer cells into remission or destruction all together-- furthermore, his work was done in 1931 when the structure of DNA was introduced in 1953 and we're still working to decode it. Do you want inertia in science especially that cancer itself evolves as is the case with any parasitic cells that live in the host?
It is like speaking of Penicillin as a cure all when the most primitive bacteria started almost immediately producing Beta lactamase to inactivate it

It’s not my job to convince anybody and with all due respect

Actually it is, when you're actively acting to 'spread the word' malign the institution and making faulty statements as in all cancers are curable.
I'd love to see that cure for GBM IV, or Medullary Ca. Or Pancreatic CA or Ovarian CA. etc. or stomach cancer just lost an uncle to that a couple of weeks ago.. etc etc. You think people wouldn't be jumping over the 'cure all' you speak of?
Go ahead please show me the population of people who were treated with flax seed and survived cancer.

Jazaki Allah khyran

 

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

Im short on time at the moment.
Alhamdulillah sister منوة الخيال has already shared most of my thoughts on this.
JazakAllah khayrun ukthi.

I am not posting random claims by lay people who do not have any background in science or oncology. These are medical trained doctors carrying out these alternative treatments.

Sister member x, all we are asking, begging for - is to see some evidence for the improved mortality that has been claimed.

We practise what is called 'evidence-based medicine': in other words, in order to prevent mismanagement of diseases; to maximise benefit and minimise harm - there needs to be a foundation of evidence......

before we subject people to potentially toxic chemicals that may confer no benefit or reduction in mortality.


This seems fair? Yes?

Usually this evidence is first derived from animal studies - and if this shows promise, then ideally to human randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trials.

From this we may be able to conclude whether that particular drug has:
- any benefit: in terms of determined outcomes and mortality
- any potential harms.

This is all that we are asking for.


I'd like to share the following site: Quackwatch (love the name! : ))

^^ I advise anyone who is considering any form of alternative therapy - to know exactly what you are dealing with, before embarking on such a route.......esp. when it comes to serious, life-threatening conditions such as cancer.

This is your life and health/ that of a loved one - and its up to you to know the rationale and evidence that exists before blindly following the 'its natural, therefore it must be good/ curative for me' flock.

May Allah grant us all understanding and guide us towards that which is best and pleasing to Him.
Ameen.


:wa:

 

[جوري]

I am using my phone myself to reply so I haven't gone into any depth - I want to thank you for the above since we're touched by this fron both sides .. As doctors and patients.

 

[piXie]

You should read his research in totality and post it here, in fact I challenge you to, and at the same time use that research to show us how it would put cancer cells into remission or destruction all together

Look ukhtee, I have posted some basic information, now it is your job as a responsible physician to investigate this information further and consult the relevant sources with an open mind. You cannot expect me to spoon feed, I'm sorry but I sincerely don’t have the time for that.

making faulty statements as in all cancers are curable.

in fact we're told for every ailment there's a cure.

^ :hmm:

Refusing to investigate beyond orthodox medicine and trusting sites like quackwatch will gain us little progress in finding these cures. There is so much more to medicine than what has just been “scientifically proven” through “double blind trials"

----------------------------------------------

If there is anyone considering alternative treatments, they should be advised to perform istikhara, & seek out the knowledgeable, qualified and medically trained doctors in those alternative fields as opposed to trying these treatments themselves or consulting with those alternative therapists who have little or no clinical experience with cancer.

We practise what is called 'evidence-based medicine'

Usually this evidence is first derived from animal studies - and if this shows promise, then ideally to human randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trials.

With all due respect - u can carry on practicing that & waiting for the FDA then.

May Allah grant us all understanding and guide us towards that which is best and pleasing to Him.

Aameen.

:wasalamex

 

[piXie]

منوة الخيال

Im really sorry to hear about your uncle. May Allaah grant him Jannah Al Firdaus, give u all patience and grant your aunt shifaa. Aameen. You are all in my du'as.

 

[~Zaria~]

Look ukhtee, I have posted some basic information, now it is your job as a responsible physician to investigate this information further and consult the relevant sources with an open mind. You cannot expect me to spoon feed, I'm sorry but I sincerely don’t have the time for that.

With all due respect ukthi, it is the one who is making the claim that needs to bring the evidence to support it.

One does not make random recommendations and then request the receiver to prove its authenticity.......indeed, it works the other way (in all matters).

There is so much more to medicine than what has just been “scientifically proven” through “double blind trials"

What would be the alternative?

Dispensing therapies that have no verified benefits and the side effects/ toxicities of which are unknown?
As well as giving innocent sufferers false hopes of relief or cure, all the while knowing that there is very little if any proof or truth behind these claims.

If there is anyone considering alternative treatments, they should be advised to perform istikhara, & seek out the knowledgeable, qualified and medically trained doctors in those fields as opposed to trying these treatments themselves or consulting with those alternative therapists who have little or no clinical experience with cancer.

Alhamdulillah! : ))
Allahu Akbar!

Indeed, we are in agreement. : )

:wa:

 

[جوري]

I know sister member x is intelligent to understand all that's written here!
It's a matter of employing the scientific method- not just a matter of the governing body. It's a system of checks & balances.
I am open to shark fin/ox tail/flax seed if you can show me the numbers and power of the study!
You asking me to look for it means one thing- which is what you're presenting here is opinion not facts.
I am also yet to see how my statements are contradictory?

 

[piXie]

One does not make random recommendations and then request the receiver to prove its authenticity.......indeed, it works the other way (in all matters).

I didn’t ask you to prove its authenticity – I just asked you to look into it. If you do not want to, then that is your choice. There is no point :argue:

As-salaamu ‘alaykum.

 

[~Zaria~]

^ Lol.

Thats ok, ukthi.

JazakAllah khayrun for your time and efforts.


:wa: