American Pastor partakes in the holy month of Ramadan

[glo]

And here is another good example of interfaith efforts. A synagogue in Virginia US welcomes Muslims seeking a place to pray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19289226

 

[Insaanah]

Assalaamu alaikum all who follow the guidance, and peace to all.

Pastor Wes Magruder asked his mentor and friend Rev Elaine Heath, to comment on his Ramadan experience on his blog. She responded with the following article:

Elaine Heath on True Evangelism and Our Muslim Neighbors

Have just picked out some quotes that Muslims may find interesting:

Once we unpack the roots of bad evangelism we are ready to move into the theory and practice of the most wonderful adventure of the Christian life—becoming a people who love so well and so consistently, that others are drawn to a transformative relationship with God by their relationships with us.

Should we use words to tell our neighbors about our faith in God? Yes, if it is natural and the Holy Spirit lets us know the time is right.

Only love can set people free.

When Wes told me he was going to fast with Muslim friends during Ramadan, I was excited. I knew that Wes would experience a deeper conversion to his own Christian faith in the process, and that Muslim friends near and far would experience a healthy Christian leader who knows how to show up, pay attention, cooperate with God, and release the outcome. They would experience Christian love and solidarity from a pastor who does not coerce, manipulate, exploit, or use violence to try to get other people to agree to loving Jesus.

Muslims already love and respect Jesus and believe in him as he was, nothing less, and nothing more. Neither rejected/blasphemed, nor deified. Not at one wrong extreme, nor the other wrong extreme. One of the most noble and purest of humanity to ever set foot on the face of the earth, a sign for people, and one of the mightiest messengers of Allah, sent to the Children of Israel.

 

[Signor]

Mosque and church discovered next to each other in Cappadocia

Official highlighted that it was the first time they came across a rock-cut mosque which had changed the common knowledge about the Ihlara Valley, the largest settlement area of Cappadocia.

Discovery of a mosque and a church next to each other brought to light the reality that Muslims and Christians lived together.

Discovery of a mosque and a church next to each other which were cut into rocks in the world-famous Ihlara Valley, Cappadocia, has brought to light the reality that Muslims and Christians lived together in the same period of time.

Curator of the Aksaray Museum, Yusuf Altin, told AA on Wednesday that their works and projects on discovery of cultural assets in Ihlara Valley continue.

He said that the number of cultural assets rose from 12 to 45 during recent works and they were excited when they found the mosque.

He highlighted that it was the first time they came across a rock-cut mosque which had changed the common knowledge about the Ihlara Valley, the largest settlement area of Cappadocia.

"There was also a rock-cut church found next to the mosque. This reveals that in the same period of time there were Muslims and Christians living together in Ihlara. Also both places of worships are so close to each others," said Altin.

"The Mosque has inner dome and dome roof which is interesting. It does not take attention from outside but the inside of the mosque is fascinating. It has a door which opens directly outside. The most important feature of this mosque is that it has been built next to a church. Church has a different entrance and then it connects with the underground city. We discovered an important cultural asset by finding the mosque and the church next to each other," said Yusuf Altin.

Ihlara is a town famous with the nearby valley, Ihlara Valley. The Valley is unique because of its history and civilizations. The whole valley has rock-cut underground dwellings and churches from the Byzantines. Ihlara is 100 km away from the Nevsehir province.

Cappadocia is a historical region in Nevsehir in central Anatolia. Cappadocia is a world-famous town with its exceptional natural wonders, especially with its "fairy chimneys" and a unique historical and cultural heritage. Persians, Assyrians, Greeks and Hittites all lived in Cappadocia. Turkish tribes started settling in the region in the Middle Ages.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=92986

 

[MustafaMc]

Pastor Wes Magruder asked his mentor and friend Rev Elaine Heath, to comment on his Ramadan experience on his blog. She responded with the following article

Wa alaikum assalam, respected Ukhti. If one reads between the lines, you can detect an evangelical intention to convert Muslims to Christianity. If I remember correctly, I read on his blog where some of his Muslim friends accepted communion at his church. How many Muslims do you know who will take part in a ceremony that is defined as "a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ"?

I am reminded of Al-Baqarah 120, "Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with you unless you follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Were you to follow their desires after the knowledge which has reached you, then you would find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.

 

[جوري]

Wa alaikum assalam, respected Ukhti. If one reads between the lines, you can detect an evangelical intention to convert Muslims to Christianity

I have always respected and appreciated your candor.. I don't like to beat around the bush myself...
2:109 to top

Sahih International
Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves [even] after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.


they just disgust me.. I find it hard to pardon disgusting people with mal intent..


​

 

[Insaanah]

If one reads between the lines, you can detect an evangelical intention to convert Muslims to Christianity. If I remember correctly, I read on his blog where some of his Muslim friends accepted communion at his church. How many Muslims do you know who will take part in a ceremony that is defined as "a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ"?

I remember reading that on the blog too. I was trying to find the post, it could have been this one, though not sure:

Not only do I stand with the Plano Muslims, but I have also begun to make friends with Muslim refugees from Iraq, Somalia, and Sudan. I’ve previously blogged about Mohammed, a young Sudanese Muslim who often attends the New Day Christian community gatherings that I’m involved with. The last time I served him Communion, he asked if he could pray “for the food” first. After he prayed in Arabic, I happily offered him the bread and cup, symbol of Jesus’ love and sacrifice.

http://newmethofesto.com/2012/07/20/a-muslimmethofesto-why-im-observing-ramadan/

Basically they have a project set up where they "reach out" to newly arrived refugees from Iraq, Somalia, Sudan etc, show them their "love", offer them help etc, and slowly, under the guise of friendship and mutual understanding, draw them into Christian practices, rather than directing them to the mosque. I'm not sure whether it's the case that there aren't resident Muslims where this is happening, or what the refugee set up is in the US, but sad none the less.

Source: http://newmethofesto.com/project-daraja/

There seem to be contradictory statements coming out, like this:

I served Holy Communion to Mohammed last night, and I hope he doesn’t convert.

On serving communion to Muslims

And this:

Every year, a few thousand refugees are resettled in the Dallas area. They come from Iraq, Congo, Burma, Bhutan, Somalia and Sudan, among other places in the world. They come only with the clothes on their backs, and hope for a brighter future.

At first, these refugees receive case management, cash assistance, and special attention from a refugee agency. But after six months, most find themselves entirely on their own. They have to become self-sufficient quickly, and on their way toward prosperity and citizenship.

As you can imagine, this is a tall order. First Rowlett UMC (United Methodist Church) is in the process of prayer and discernment about how to create a long-term ministry which will act as a bridge between arrival and citizenship for refugees in the Dallas area. We are calling it “Project Daraja,” as “daraja” is the Swahili word for “bridge.”

I would like the opportunity to cast the vision for Project Daraja to you and others from your church or community. At your invitation, I will give an hour-long presentation outlining the needs and goals of this new ministry. Please subscribe to this blog if you are interested in attending future presentations. But don’t come alone. Bring someone else who you think would be passionate about this ministry.

If you would like to know more about this project and how you may get involved, please contact me. Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

Wes

Source: http://newmethofesto.com/project-daraja/

And this:

It hit me then that the point of Communion was never about exclusion or inclusion, but simply that Jesus likes to eat with people.

We’re just offering them something to eat. We’re simply making a goodwill gesture of friendship.

I looked at Mohammed and explained that this was the way we remember Jesus. He nodded as if he understood, and I handed him a portion of bread and offered him the cup.

On serving communion to Muslims

I really hope he didn't drink wine, or actually any of it as it is dedicated to shirk, and wonder whether they feel obliged to attend because of any help they might receive. Very sad. The beginnings of "innocently" mixing up the borders between Islam and Christianity, so that any crossover will be "easier" and will seem "harmless".

 

[جوري]

Reminds me of 'mother Jones' the stealth crusade...
But they're delusional at best - they've better luck with Dawkins than Muslims that's how out of touch with reality they're.

 

[MustafaMc]

I remember reading that on the blog too. I was trying to find the post, it could have been this one, though not sure:

Assalamu alaikum, actually the quote that struck me was, "Over the last few months, our New Day gathering on Sunday nights has included a growing number of Muslim refugees, from Sudan, Somalia, and Iraq. They have been extraordinarily gracious and willing to attend our worship. They have even gotten into the habit of taking Communion with us." from http://newmethofesto.com/2012/08/12/a-sermon-day-24-of-ramadan/

The beginnings of "innocently" mixing up the borders between Islam and Christianity, so that any crossover will be "easier" and will seem "harmless".

I have attended a few 'interfaith dialog' events and this is exactly the thought that I came home with. Sadly, it is highly likely that the children of these refugees stand a strong chance of becoming Christians. If the parents aren't very quickly integrated into a Muslim community, the children will form friendships with Christians and become alienated from their parents as they strive to become 'integrated' into American society.

 

[MustafaMc]

I have always respected and appreciated your candor.. I don't like to beat around the bush myself...

Assalamu alaikum, respected Ukhti, thank you. Yes, we, Sister Insaanah and others speak what comes to our minds. I would prefer to speak what I hold is the truth and possibly offend someone rather than hold back and remain silent.

I find it hard to pardon disgusting people with mal intent..

As I once was a Christian, too, I can only say, "There but by the grace of God, so go I." I can imagine that to them their intentions are good as they strive to bring the infidel Muslims ("Regardless of what Muslims believe, or don’t believe, we are to love them.") into the fold of Christianity as they see it is the only way for their salvation from the Hellfire. Likewise, I would like to see Christians become Muslims and I try to share the message of Islam by my words and my life as best I can, while realizing that guidance to siratal mustaqeem comes only from Allah (swt).

 

[جوري]

into the fold of Christianity as they see it is the only way for their salvation from the Hellfire.

it strikes me odd that they bank on people's miseries and difficult circumstances to do their bidding. Exchanging charity for a conversion? If they felt their religion were truth and had some semblance of common sense, why not address atheists or ex-christians in lieu of individuals under dire circumstance? It is just sneaky & under-handed. I don't have a favorable view of Christians or Christianity .. I understand not all Muslims feel as I do but I am not going to apologize for disliking their religion or antics..

 

[QueenofHerts]

May Allah guide him to Islam, ameen.

 

[Insaanah]

:salamext:

As I once was a Christian, too, I can only say, "There but by the grace of God, so go I." I can imagine that to them their intentions are good as they strive to bring the infidel Muslims ("Regardless of what Muslims believe, or don’t believe, we are to love them.") into the fold of Christianity as they see it is the only way for their salvation from the Hellfire. Likewise, I would like to see Christians become Muslims and I try to share the message of Islam by my words and my life as best I can, while realizing that guidance to siratal mustaqeem comes only from Allah (swt).

I'd say there's a slight difference though. As per Rev Elaine Heaths blog post, the new evangelism, and true evangelism, is covertly by love, and under the guise of friendship and understanding, with the true intent/message spoken out in words only if it is natural and when the holy spirit tells you the time is right. In Islam, we are instructed to give da'wah and convey the message clearly, in a forthright manner, with wisdom and in a good way, and to reason with people, so that they understand clearly what is being said to them:

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. (16:125)

And never let them avert you from the verses of Allah after they have been revealed to you. And invite [people] to your Lord. And never be of those who associate others with Allah. (28:87)

And indeed, you invite them to a straight path. (23:73)

And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought. (16:44)

It isn't a feeling of being all loved up that's important. It is clearly conveying knowledge to people in the way they can understand, reasoning with them, enabling them to reflect and ponder, using their thought and logic.

The Qur'an repeatedly underscores that our duty is to convey the message, not to covertly get people to follow our rituals/beliefs under various guises.

 

[MustafaMc]

In Islam, we are instructed to give da'wah and convey the message clearly, in a forthright manner, with wisdom and in a good way, and to reason with people, so that they understand clearly what is being said to them:

Your comments brought to mind 1 Corinthians 9:20-23 where Paul wrote:

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

which also brought to mind 2 Corinthians 4:2

Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.

that indicates that these Christians who use charity, fasting Ramadan, etc hand-in-hand with evangelism are using the deception and trickery of the first passage and not setting forth clearly what they hold as true noted in the second passage.

 

[Insaanah]

Wa alaikum assalam, respected Ukhti. If one reads between the lines, you can detect an evangelical intention to convert Muslims to Christianity. If I remember correctly, I read on his blog where some of his Muslim friends accepted communion at his church. How many Muslims do you know who will take part in a ceremony that is defined as "a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ"?

I really hope he didn't drink wine, or actually any of it as it is dedicated to shirk, and wonder whether they feel obliged to attend because of any help they might receive. Very sad. The beginnings of "innocently" mixing up the borders between Islam and Christianity, so that any crossover will be "easier" and will seem "harmless".

Just learned that the United Methodist Church (UMC) uses grape juice. One of the reasons might be that they practice "open communion" i.e. non-baptised people and non-Christians can partake in holy communion, and Muslims would obviously object if there was wine.

However, as it is dedicated to shirk, partaking in the rite and eating thereof is as haram as eating pork is for us, if not more so.

He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced by necessity, neither desiring [it] nor transgressing due limits, there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (2:173)

And taking part in the ritual of another faith is forbidden to us, full stop. Allah showed us our rites and rituals, and they did not include any type of communion and are based strictly on monotheism.

about.com gives a good summary of the three major views regarding the symbolism of the bread and wine in Christianity:

Three main Christian views regarding the bread and the wine during the practice of Communion:

The bread and the wine become the actual body and blood of Christ. The Catholic term for this is Transubstantiation.
The bread and the wine are unchanged elements, but Christ's presence by faith is made spiritually real in and through them.
The bread and the wine are unchanged elements, used as symbols, representing Christ's body and blood, in remembrance of his enduring sacrifice.

http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhelpdesk/f/whatiscommunion.htm

All the reasons are also given on the same page as to why Christians observe communion. One of them is "proclaiming the Lord's death until He comes", as well as "participation in the body of Christ" (peace be upon him).

This whole ritual is steeped in shirk, attributing divinity to Jesus (peace be upon him), and saying that he, as one of the persons of God, died. Na'oothubillah.

If you look at all the reasons mentioned on the about.com page, and then look at what the pastor told the Muslim taking part in the communion, it in no way conveys accurately or clearly the purpose of communion or what it represents:

It hit me then that the point of Communion was never about exclusion or inclusion, but simply that Jesus likes to eat with people.

We’re just offering them something to eat. We’re simply making a goodwill gesture of friendship.

I looked at Mohammed and explained that this was the way we remember Jesus. He nodded as if he understood, and I handed him a portion of bread and offered him the cup.

On Serving Communion to Muslims

Assalamu alaikum, actually the quote that struck me was, "Over the last few months, our New Day gathering on Sunday nights has included a growing number of Muslim refugees, from Sudan, Somalia, and Iraq. They have been extraordinarily gracious and willing to attend our worship. They have even gotten into the habit of taking Communion with us." from http://newmethofesto.com/2012/08/12/a-sermon-day-24-of-ramadan/

Now see this from Wikipedia:

United Methodists practice open communion, inviting "all who intend a Christian life, together with their children" to receive Communion.[62] Undergoing Baptism is not a prerequisite for receiving Communion, but if unbaptized people "regularly participate in Holy Communion, it is appropriate for pastors to talk with these people" about the possibility of them being baptized.[63]

Can you see where that'll go?

The full version of holy communion in the UMC ends as follows:

The anamnesis follows, leading into the Memorial Acclamation (Christ has died; Christ is risen; Christ will come again). The presiding minister then prays the epiclesis (pour out your Holy Spirit...) and closes with a Trinitarian doxology.

Wikipedia (latter two quotes), with credible sources for the above statements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist#Other_churches

It seems to me to that these people may somehow feel obliged. They're also being duped as to what it is they're actually partaking in, it seems harmless to them but the food dedicated to shirk is haram as pork and taking part in a rite of shirk is haram.

I wish there was some way to contact them, find out where these refugees are staying, and write to them as to what they are actually doing and it's repercussions in this world and the hereafter. May Allah save our brothers and sisters, ameen.

 

[MustafaMc]

The bread and the wine are unchanged elements, used as symbols, representing Christ's body and blood, in remembrance of his enduring sacrifice.

I agree that taking communion is an act of worshipping Jesus as God. When I was growing up as a Baptist, we only occassionally partook of "The Lord's Supper", whereas, when I was a member of the Church of Christ, we did this every Sunday with the intention so stated above.

In reading between the lines, I believe that the pastor's fasting during Ramadan was intended more as a means of his establishing a kinship with the local Muslim refugees as a continuation of his evangelical efforts to bring them into the Christian fold starting with getting them to take communion.

 

[Aprender]

In reading between the lines, I believe that the pastor's fasting during Ramadan was intended more as a means of his establishing a kinship with the local Muslim refugees as a continuation of his evangelical efforts to bring them into the Christian fold starting with getting them to take communion.

I'm so glad the Muslim community here takes good care of the refugees when they come in so they're less likely to fall into these traps. We need to work on building stronger Muslim communities in America and a stronger ummah as a whole. May Allah help us worship Him right and protect our brothers and sisters from all harm, deception and evil in this world. Ameeeen.

I can't think of too many Christian traditions that a Muslim could participate in as they're all pretty much shrouded in shirk. In terms of "interfaith" efforts I think it's more of a benefit to express that externally by doing more good in the community. I'd like to see more of that and I'm sure those in need would appreciate it.

 

[glo]

Having read the more recent responses in this thread, perhaps it is fair to say that it is easier for a Christian to share in Muslim practices than the other way round?

 

[جوري]

The end justifies the means for Christians. Islam is about integrity amongst other noble traits.
We don't have to be a Jew to the Jews or a Christian to the Christian per Saul' statements. No need for hypocrisy or exchanging food for conversions or banking on people's miseries. In the end truth stands clear from error without antics or acrobatics!

Best,

 

[aamirsaab]

Having read the more recent responses in this thread, perhaps it is fair to say that it is easier for a Christian to share in Muslim practices than the other way round?

If a Muslim were to share a Christian practice, this would actually go against the core principles of the Islamic faith. As Muslims we believe that our religion is complete, so adopting other religious practices (Christian or otherwise) is strictly forbidden. Hope you can understand.

 

[Scimitar]

Having read the more recent responses in this thread, perhaps it is fair to say that it is easier for a Christian to share in Muslim practices than the other way round?

Yes, I think so.

But only because all the Christian practices that are authentic, are also in Islam - given to Muslims. Often in a more stricter manner - for example Lent and Ramadhan. Lent is considered to be easier than Ramadhan. So naturally, a Muslim doing lent is not teaching the Muslim anything new, because Ramadhan already teaches the Muslim what it is like to fast, why we do it, how we gain nearness to God etc...

So, though you're statement is true, it is - but for reasons that are different to what you may first conclude.

Scimi