American Pastor partakes in the holy month of Ramadan

[MustafaMc]

Having read the more recent responses in this thread, perhaps it is fair to say that it is easier for a Christian to share in Muslim practices than the other way round?

Yes, that is correct. Christian worship predominantly centers around Jesus and/or Mary that is directly contradictory to Islam. For example, 90%+ of the songs in Protestant hymnals are about Jesus, or the Cross. Communion is a partaking in the body and blood of Jesus either in transubstantiation or in remembrance of his life and death on the cross. Prayers are offered 'in the name of Jesus'. The Catholic 'Hail Mary' prayer worships Mary as the 'Mother of God', see also 'Our Lady of Guadalupe', 'Our Lady of Fatima', and statues of 'Madonna', etc.

In contrast, the Islamic rituals of sawm, salah, and zakat can easily be adopted by a Christian as not being contradictory to their worship of God. For example, I believe that a Christian would have no issue with reciting in prayer surah Al-Fatiha, saying 'God is Great', 'glory to God - the Most High,' 'glory to God - the Almighty', etc. As the OP indicates partaking of the Islamic form of fasting is not inconsistent with Christian belief system, nor is giving 2.5% of one's wealth to the poor.

I venture to qualify your statement, however, that the pilgrimage to Mecca is forbidden for non-Muslims. Having been there, as Allah has willed, I can say that it is an 'other world experience' to partake in the hajj with a few million Muslims who shared my faith.

 

[glo]

If a Muslim were to share a Christian practice, this would actually go against the core principles of the Islamic faith. As Muslims we believe that our religion is complete, so adopting other religious practices (Christian or otherwise) is strictly forbidden. Hope you can understand.

I totally understand.
My statement was an observation, not a judgement.

Yes, I think so.

But only because all the Christian practices that are authentic, are also in Islam - given to Muslims. Often in a more stricter manner - for example Lent and Ramadhan. Lent is considered to be easier than Ramadhan. So naturally, a Muslim doing lent is not teaching the Muslim anything new, because Ramadhan already teaches the Muslim what it is like to fast, why we do it, how we gain nearness to God etc...

So, though you're statement is true, it is - but for reasons that are different to what you may first conclude.

Scimi

Yes, that is correct. Christian worship predominantly centers around Jesus and/or Mary that is directly contradictory to Islam. For example, 90%+ of the songs in Protestant hymnals are about Jesus, or the Cross. Communion is a partaking in the body and blood of Jesus either in transubstantiation or in remembrance of his life and death on the cross. Prayers are offered 'in the name of Jesus'. The Catholic 'Hail Mary' prayer worships Mary as the 'Mother of God', see also 'Our Lady of Guadalupe', 'Our Lady of Fatima', and statues of 'Madonna', etc.

In contrast, the Islamic rituals of sawm, salah, and zakat can easily be adopted by a Christian as not being contradictory to their worship of God. For example, I believe that a Christian would have no issue with reciting in prayer surah Al-Fatiha, saying 'God is Great', 'glory to God - the Most High,' 'glory to God - the Almighty', etc. As the OP indicates partaking of the Islamic form of fasting is not inconsistent with Christian belief system, nor is giving 2.5% of one's wealth to the poor.

I venture to qualify your statement, however, that the pilgrimage to Mecca is forbidden for non-Muslims. Having been there, as Allah has willed, I can say that it is an 'other world experience' to partake in the hajj with a few million Muslims who shared my faith.

Thank you for sharing, Scimi and Mustafa.
Your posts echo what I was trying to convey.

I am glad that I don't feel my faith prevents me from benefiting from the practices of other faiths (I know that other Christians may disagree), because I have benefited hugely from joining is Islamic praying and fasting.

I understand that that doesn't mean that I can expect my Muslims brothers and sisters to do the same in return.

Incidentally, I have just returned from a weekend festival, where - amongst other things - I attended a couple of interfaith talks.
One was a by a Ray Gaston, who now works as an Inter Faith Tutor and Enabler. He worked as a vicar in North England when 9/11 happened and asked the local imam to come and read from the Qu'ran at the following Sunday service. The imam came and read a passage from the Qu'ran and then stayed for the rest of the service. He even joined the congregation when they gathered around the altar for communion (although he did not himself take bread and wine).
That story tells me that Muslim can and do join their Christian friends to some extend in their worship - but that they have to be mindful and clear about WHY they are joining, WHAT they are joining and WHERE they draw the line.
I would also go so far as to say that I do the same when I join my Muslim friends. There are certain things I would not join in or do, or when I do, I may actually have quite a different attitude or interpretation towards it. Does that make sense?

Peace

 

[Insaanah]

Greetings.

I am glad that I don't feel my faith prevents me from benefiting from the practices of other faiths (I know that other Christians may disagree), because I have benefited hugely from joining is Islamic praying and fasting.

I wouldn't get too glad just yet.

Firstly, you need to understand that as Muslims, we feel in NO way AT ALL restricted, prevented, or somehow sad or unglad, that we do not follow the practices of other faiths. As brother Aamirsaab pointed out in post 59, Islam is a complete faith, that cannot be supplemented by other practices, and there are no practices of other faiths that can benefit us, not even any new inventions within Islam. Perfection from God cannot be perfected upon by humans.

Sometimes people jump on the bandwagon and portray this as Muslims having a narrow outlook or not being receptive or open-minded. I find that quite claim interesting, seeing as Islam is the only faith in which ALL the Prophets sent by God are accepted, believed in without exception, revered and loved, and none is rejected or discriminated against or defamed in any way.

Sometimes people also portray this as Muslims not willing to explore shared values with others, which has been addressed in post number 33 here, after the last quote: http://www.islamicboard.com/general...artakes-holy-month-ramadan-3.html#post1537481
Our values are those that all the Prophets shared.

It is unsurprising that you feel benefit from Islamic praying and fasting, which is what Jesus (peace be upon him) did. We prostrate, we fast, we don't eat pork, the same as Jesus, we even worship the same God that He did, without sons or spirits, the same God that all the Prophets did.

I understand that that doesn't mean that I can expect my Muslims brothers and sisters to do the same in return.

We wouldn't feel any obligation to do anything "in return", as it's not a favour to us.

Our main concern is not for people to adopt our rituals, but for people to have the correct beliefs, beliefs which we try to share openly and clearly, without any kind of cover or guises, or cross-rituals, rather simply by open, honest and frank discussions, sharing the knowledge we have of the truth and reasoning with others, as mentioned in post number 52 here: http://www.islamicboard.com/general...artakes-holy-month-ramadan-4.html#post1538148

That story tells me that Muslim can and do join their Christian friends to some extend in their worship

This goes back to your point that you've mentioned before, that you prefer not to go by the sources and texts of faiths, but rather peoples individual practices and understandings. So according to this theory, if a Muslim does something, that means it CAN be done in Islam, because the Muslim was doing it. This has been addressed in post number 33 here, starting from the midde quote: http://www.islamicboard.com/general...artakes-holy-month-ramadan-3.html#post1537481

As to whether he joined them in their worship of Jesus (peace be upon him), by gathering round with them at the altar, I don't think it's fair to come to the conclusion that he joined them in their worship by having read from the Qur'an and then having remained there and stood with them where they were standing. For all we know, he may have felt uncomfortable having stood there. Allah knows best on his intentions, and we should leave it to Him.

but that they have to be mindful and clear about WHY they are joining, WHAT they are joining and WHERE they draw the line.

It's a shame though that the refugees haven't been clearly imparted the knowledge, by those inviting them, of WHAT they are joining, WHY it is done, and thus they don't know that it is well over the line.

I would also go so far as to say that I do the same when I join my Muslim friends. There are certain things I would not join in or do, or when I do, I may actually have quite a different attitude or interpretation towards it.

Joining in the belief is what will count on the day of Judgement, not the rituals, rituals devoid of the correct belief.

I invite you to join in a common belief in one God, the same God of all the Prophets and of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all), Who is not triune or diune and begot no sons or offspring. Joining in this belief, is something that can benefit you in the hereafter, and as a result of which, following the practices will also benefit in both worlds.

Peace.

 

[glo]

I invite you to join in a common belief in one God, the same God of all the Prophets and of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all), Who is not triune or diune and begot no sons or offspring.

I appreciate your invitation and your concern, sister Insaanah.
Allah alim

 

[MustafaMc]

I invite you to join in a common belief in one God, the same God of all the Prophets and of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all), Who is not triune or diune and begot no sons or offspring. Joining in this belief, is something that can benefit you in the hereafter, and as a result of which, following the practices will also benefit in both worlds.

Ditto for me.

The beauty I see in Islam is absolute, uncompromising and unadulterated belief in One God without father, mother, son, daughter or anything that is comparable. Tonight I was reading in the Quran and came upon this passage, "And who is a greater wrong-doer than he who invents a lie against Allah? Such persons will be set forth before their Lord and the witnesses will testify: "These are the ones who lied against their Lord." Lo! Allah's curse be upon the wrong-doers; upon those who bar people from the Way of Allah, and seek in it crookedness, and disbeieve in the Hereafter." 11:18-19 and Maududi's commentary says, "To invent a lie against God consists of stating that beings other than God also have a share with God in His Godhead, that like God they too are entitled to be served and worshipped by God's creatures." I believe it was GraceSeeker who wrote that Muslims have an incomplete concept of God because Jesus was excluded from it. Whereas, we see that Christians ascribe partners with God by their saying Jesus is the 'only begotten Son of God' despite their inability to explain in what since of the word 'son' that Jesus is the Son of God.