7 more bloggers to be arrested

[hur575]

I read everything posted in the thread.

First I was surprised that people here would be more upset about people insulting their religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion.

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I will address some of your points but please read them all, if you really want to understand our point of view. It might help.

Who said we are more upset or less upset about people insulting our religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion?? Please tell me how did you reach that conclusion. When someone hurt anyone in the name of Islam, we Muslims are quick to condemn such acts, our imams, leaders even every Muslim becomes a spokes person for Islam, even though there are lunatics in every religion, faiths, ideology etc but we do not see any one coming out apologising for the act of few but we do it and we always have, so do not tell us what we feel and do not feel. The western media have magnified any wrong act of Muslims, to the point we feel we have to defend ourselves every time.

I read everything posted in the thread.

Then I was surprised that you and others here have actually gone on to state and continue to maintain that it is good to murder people who insult your religion. And then you call your religion one seeking peace. Orwellian.

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It is not us who ask to murder them, but Allah the All-Mighty, All-Wise. You see we do not ask for them to be killed by anyone but the state in Islamic state. The thing is the love of Allah and our prophet peace be upon him, to any Muslim even not practising Muslim is more than anyone can describe. These people if not captured and judged by the state, ordinary people might go and kill them, so by that your causing chaos.

We believe that is the order of Allah, the creator of everything, we Muslims we submit to his will. You might say well, every other religion believes that, true BUT us asking to apply sharia in Islamic state it does not affect anyone but us. We are not asking for the person to be killed by anyone, or demand sharia law in none Islamic state, so I do not see how that effect anyone in the world.

Finally, You can’t judge Islam by your moral standard, or your prejudice. Moral standard vary so much between cultures, and also time. So what is acceptable today might not be to tomorrow, and some place else. We believe in creator that knows us better than ourselves, and as I said with our limitation we can’t possibly agree in what is acceptable and what is not, so that method is not viable method to judge a religion.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I'm certainly upset that anyone was killed without being tried in a Shariah court, as vigilantism isn't acceptable.

It is nice to see you finally write that.

I've already also explained why Blasphemy is punishable for Islam. If it wasn't, or hate-speech for that matter wasn't, various groups and minorities would struggle to get a long in peace and tolerance. Laws and punishments are there to deter.

You can state your reasons why you think it is good to kill people who offend you, but don't try to tell me it is "tolerance". It is the opposite.

Many religious doctrines are pretty insulting to non-believers if you think about it. We're always hearing how we should burn in hell and suffer for all eternity, how you can't be good without God, etc. Homosexuals are even told that they are abominations. That doesn't mean we should execute church leaders. When I see Fred Phelps picketing a funeral with his hate speech my reaction isn't that I want to see him hang.

Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution.

So the ones that say they don't are lying to me? I really don't think all Muslims are that thin skinned.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Who said we are more upset or less upset about people insulting our religion than people killing and murdering in the name of their religion?? Please tell me how did you reach that conclusion. When someone hurt anyone in the name of Islam, we Muslims are quick to condemn such acts, our imams, leaders even every Muslim becomes a spokes person for Islam, even though there are lunatics in every religion, faiths, ideology etc but we do not see any one coming out apologising for the act of few but we do it and we always have, so do not tell us what we feel and do not feel. The western media have magnified any wrong act of Muslims, to the point we feel we have to defend ourselves every time.

I was not writing about the broader context. I was writing about this specific thread. Did you read it from the first page?

It is not us who ask to murder them, but Allah the All-Mighty, All-Wise.

LOL Well I guess that makes it ok then....

You see we do not ask for them to be killed by anyone but the state in Islamic state. The thing is the love of Allah and our prophet peace be upon him, to any Muslim even not practising Muslim is more than anyone can describe. These people if not captured and judged by the state, ordinary people might go and kill them, so by that your causing chaos.

That's the point I made in my initial response in this thread. It actually makes sense to arrest these guys, because it really doesn't take them saying much for reactionaries to rush to violence. They are brave and stupid, and really need to be taken off the street for their own good.

We believe that is the order of Allah, the creator of everything, we Muslims we submit to his will. You might say well, every other religion believes that, true BUT us asking to apply sharia in Islamic state it does not affect anyone but us.

It affects everyone trapped in the society in which it is implemented, including those who are not Muslim, including those who belong to minority religions, and those who grew up in Islam but have lost their faith for whatever reason (or children who grew up with it but never believed). It also affects those outside the society, because although you say you do not wish to push Sharia further than this particular society, there are many others who wish to do so.

We are not asking for the person to be killed by anyone

I was glad to finally see Perseveranze write that. I would like to see Muslim Woman agree. I find it pretty alarming how they ignored the murders and threats of suicide squads completely while complaining about the blasphemy.

You can’t judge Islam by your moral standard

Of course I can. Whose moral standard would you have me judge with?

 

[Hulk]

From my understanding sharia should be implemented to a knowledgable community, not ignorant. Ilm before amal.

 

[Muslim Woman]

a related fatwa .

Fatwa No : 174509

A person who repents from apostasy or blasphemy

Fatwa Date : Rabee' Al-Aakhir 5, 1433 / 28-2-2012

Question




if a person repents from apostasy or blasphemy, will he be forgiven by Allah and if he is in islamic state will he be still executed even after becoming a true muslim


Answer





All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad

is His slave and Messenger.



With regard to his repentance and whether or not it will be accepted by Allaah The Almighty in the Hereafter, then this is a matter which only He knows.



However, if he sincerely repents, Allaah The Almighty will accept his repentance, Allaah willing.



Allaah The Almighty Says (what means):

{Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning] do not despair of the mercy of Allaah. Indeed, Allaah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”} [Quran 39:53]





As regards killing him after he had repented, then the jurists of the Shaafi’i school of jurisprudence stated that he should not be killed.



Nihaayatul Muhtaaj, one of the Shaafi’i Fiqh books, reads, “If he becomes a Muslim, his Islam is valid and he is exempted from the punishment as Allaah Says (what means): {Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] — then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place.} [Quran 8:38]




And as per the Hadeeth which reads: “If they had said it, their blood and money become secure from me.”, and his statement means that whoever insults him, [i.e. the Prophet

] or any other Prophet and then repents, then his Islam is valid and he is exempted from the punishment , and this is according to the correct opinion.''



http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=174509

Send this fatwa to friend

 

[Independent]

We are not asking for the person to be killed by anyone, or demand sharia law in none Islamic state, so I do not see how that effect anyone in the world.

Bangladesh is not under Sharia Law, it took a secular constitution after the war of Independence.

When someone hurt anyone in the name of Islam, we Muslims are quick to condemn such acts

Of course this is important. Yet in this case, those accused of war crimes during the War of Independence have made these bloggers an issue in order to avoid prosecution. What makes a few, reckless atheist bloggers worse than war criminals who say they acted in the name of Islam? It's like stopping to blow out a match when the house is on fire. There is more enthusiasm to prosecute blasphemous words than murderous acts.

 

[Ramadan90]

“Be tolerant, command what's right, pay no attention to foolish people” [7:199]

“The Servants of the Lord of Mercy are those who walk humbly on Earth, and who, when the foolish address them, reply 'Peace'” [25:63]


Let Allah deal with these people. When people see that your are patient with these ignorant fools, keep smiling and spread the truth, they will be impressed and be open to Islam. I do believe that Non-muslims living in muslim countries do respect the religion.

 

[Urban Turban]

it's ok if one wants to be an atheist . But I wonder , how come BD athiests love to attack only Islam , Allah , Prophet Muhammed pbuh and his companions , Mother Khadeja ra ? I have not seen condemning them Prophet Jesus pbuh , Lord Buddha , Lord Ram and religious figures of other faiths.

U won't believe how nasty language they used against our beloved Prophet pbuh . There must be a conspiracy against Islam . An individual / a small group can't do this if they are not backed by some powerful org.

Sis, please don't refer to Buddha and Ram as 'Lord' +o(

 

[Urban Turban]

Bangaldesh govt is pushing an exercise to separate the radical right wing extreme groups (they have to create them first, you see?) from the moderate ones - it's a plot to please USA. Obvious.

This is just another elaborate media hyped witch hunt.

Why can't no one else see right through this?

Don't we judge according to the zaahir (whats apparent) ?? - If this is a plot to separate the two groups then so be it - what exactly is moderate Islam anyways?

 

[Urban Turban]

Why should anyone be respectful of an ideology that wants to murder them?

When a religion or ideology calls for the murder of those who oppose it, it becomes morally imperative to oppose it.

By calling for the slaughter of those who oppose it. That is downright Orwellian.

Psychoscelis.

 

[Urban Turban]

Huh? I don't really want to get too involved in this thread, but come on now. I don't think anyone should be executed just because they said some stupid things against my (or any) religion. This enthusiasm for killing those who would speak ill of our religion just leads me to believe that Muslims are far more insecure than I thought...

This and many other posts of yours make me really doubt if you are even a Muslim or not.

Should one NOT have problems when some ******* is insulting the Prophet (peace and immense blessings be upon him) / Quran / etc ??!

If this does't get our goats, then what else does?

Should or does one keep quiet when one's parents are insulted?
And if one keeps mum when such a thing happens, then you know what he is called, he is called impotent.

And when a man who is worth more than the universe and everything in it put together is insulted - does one keep quiet?

It gets lower, does one defend the people who are insulting? Like you.

If given an opportunity inshaAllah, I'd rather take care of you and guys like you first and only then the blasphemers.

 

[Pygoscelis]

And if one keeps mum when such a thing happens, then you know what he is called, he is called impotent.

He said people shouldn't be executed for it and said he is concerned about the bloodlust. You equate this with "keeping mum"? Speaking out in defence of your religion is not the same thing as murdering those who oppose it.

If given an opportunity inshaAllah, I'd rather take care of you and guys like you first and only then the blasphemers.

Watch your back Tyrion.

 

[Pygoscelis]

“Be tolerant, command what's right, pay no attention to foolish people” [7:199]

“The Servants of the Lord of Mercy are those who walk humbly on Earth, and who, when the foolish address them, reply 'Peace'” [25:63]


Let Allah deal with these people. When people see that your are patient with these ignorant fools, keep smiling and spread the truth, they will be impressed and be open to Islam. I do believe that Non-muslims living in muslim countries do respect the religion.

Thank you for posting this. It gives some hope.

 

[Urban Turban]

He said people shouldn't be executed for it and said he is concerned about the bloodlust. You equate this with "keeping mum"? Speaking out in defence of your religion is not the same thing as murdering those who oppose it.



Watch your back Tyrion.

@Psychoscelis, you won't understand...you got nothing to live by and nothing to die for. It'd be a waste of time explaining.

 

[جوري]

People die for their ideology all the time. I am sick of that western holier than thou syndrome which totes its ugly head only as far as Muslims are concerned.. yet they have no problem at all sending their drones out to kill men without trial and their children thereafter lest God forbid they imbued the same ideology through osmosis. Pray do tell what good is an apology or feeling bad? It is all about mission accomplished with the usual 'collateral damage' and we should be equally if not more unyielding. It is because of their sophistry and the hypocrites in our midst that the Muslim world is in the state it is in today when we absolutely lack for nothing either by way of resources, manpower knowledge, land, culture and above all spiritual fulfillment!

 

[Futuwwa]

Every Muslim endorses the fact that the punishment for Blasphemy is execution.

Huh? I don't really want to get too involved in this thread, but come on now. I don't think anyone should be executed just because they said some stupid things against my (or any) religion. This enthusiasm for killing those who would speak ill of our religion just leads me to believe that Muslims are far more insecure than I thought...

You can add me to the list of Muslims who don't endorse execution as punishment for blasphemy. It would seem that not every Muslim endorses it, at the very most every Muslim except two

 

[Futuwwa]

If given an opportunity inshaAllah, I'd rather take care of you and guys like you first and only then the blasphemers.

In that case you better watch out, for guys like him are known for paying their debts

 

[Urban Turban]

In that case you better watch out, for guys like him are known for paying their debts

I pity you...you don't know what you are playing with.

 

[Futuwwa]

Oy, I never thought that not being an extremist would be more dangerous than being an extremist hew

 

[Perseveranze]

It is nice to see you finally write that.

I'd feel upset when any bounds of the Shariah were crossed.

You can state your reasons why you think it is good to kill people who offend you, but don't try to tell me it is "tolerance". It is the opposite.

There is no such thing as "absolute tolerance", you cannot say whatever you want, no matter where you go. I didn't just state why Shariah punishes Blasphemy/hate-speech, I also stated what would happen if it didn't.

Many religious doctrines are pretty insulting to non-believers if you think about it. We're always hearing how we should burn in hell and suffer for all eternity, how you can't be good without God, etc.

Not really, there's a systematic rational to it. If you do wrong, you go to hell (applies to both believers and non-believers, atleast that's according to Islam), if you do good and you believe, you go to paradise. The whole point is to warn and save Non-believers from the hellfire, if it didn't, those that end up not believing would have a excuse as to the fact that they were never warned. Furthermore, if you look at Christianity, they say that Muslims are going to hell, they commit the biggest blasphemy by ascribing partners to God, yet we tolerate them, and we would tolerate any Non-Muslim that said the same.

However, all this is completely different to the insults that I've mentioned earlier in the thread.

Homosexuals are even told that they are abominations. That doesn't mean we should execute church leaders. When I see Fred Phelps picketing a funeral with his hate speech my reaction isn't that I want to see him hang.

Again, religion doesn't agree with homosexuality, but there's ways in which this point is put across. It doesn't work by constantly insulting them, it works by showing them why Sodomy is wrong etc. and this is done through dawah.

So the ones that say they don't are lying to me? I really don't think all Muslims are that thin skinned.

Yeah, and these "muslims" also deny the punishment for apostasy. Basically, modernists (influenced purely by western ideals) who most of the Muslim world take little note off.

Oy, I never thought that not being an extremist would be more dangerous than being an extremist hew

Believing in something for which there's an ijma, doesn't make one an extremist, makes them a Muslim.