Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)

[جوري]

I agree with that logic of we not being grateful to Allah.Everything you said was right,but that didn't quiet answered my question.

I saw no questions, rather the same old rhetoric of atheists.

Yes i have the audacity to question eternal punishment as it contradicts the nature of God

Who defined the 'nature of God' to you? is it something you concluded in your own head?

If Allah wanted his creations to suffer the hell fire forever then why create him/her in the first place?

Rather God has made us the promise of immortality and eternal happiness but made it a choice!

People who murdered and commited rape to countless women might be justified,but an innocent atheist ? I don't think so.

Justice isn't about what you reason in your thoughts or by the measure of your personal compass!

^ This tells that Allah has already decided the fate of His creations whether go goes to hell and heaven.

Rather it speaks of the creation of man from the Earth, its good and its bad!
Weed grows amidst the harvest, there is what is cultivated and that which is to be binned and you have a choice in the matter and it looks clear that you've made yours!

Sigh. Where did i say i don't 'wish' to subscribe to his laws?

I haven't suggested your desire to subscribe to his laws, rather the opposite and I can already tell that it doesn't matter how many replies you receive you'll be dissatisifed as you already posed the questions & provided the replies.
Good luck with all that!

best,

 

[Periwinkle18]

Here u go its not that clear my frnd took it from her iPad cam didn't come out good buh I cn see it in the middle

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

gintoki you need to return to Allah as soon as possible.

please dont die upon disbelief... just take all your doubts and still accept islaam and struggle against your doubts as a muslim and not a kafir.


if you find that logic is failing yiu and answers are not found then approach a rightly guided scholar who practises tasawwuf and ask him to help you and Allah may grant you underatanding.

remember most people accepted islam due to the prophet saws. likewise maybe you need a guiding light who has knowledge and practises the inner aspects of the religion.

 

[Gintoki]

You are wrong to think that anyone is going to Hell forever. It doesn't matter what anyone thought about this issue, but Allah only punished evil for its like, and rewards a good deed ten times over (6:160). Therefore, if Allah is Just, which He is, then He does not punish anyone beyond this measure. He doesn't wrong anyone, but they wrong themselves.

As for what is constituted as Shirk being unforgivable, does it mean it never to be forgiven ever, or is it only unforgiven in this life? It is obvious that it is only unforgiven in this life, but as for the Hereafter, it is punished. This does not mean the punishment is infinite. Again, evil is merited with its like. Shirk is not an infinite sin. But, any punishment given will certainly FEEL like forever. That much is certain.

As for who goes to Hell or not, that is all up to Allah to decide. You cannot go judging Allah as to what He will judge when the Day of Judgment hasn't happened yet. Don't go making assumptions on what He decides. Do you know better or does the All-Knowing Allah know better? The belief is that Allah always knows better and He always makes the best decisions because only He knows what is in people's hearts. Islam is about Allah rewarding everyone according to the intentions in their hearts. Only the absolutely wretched and the worst people go to Hell, not just anyone. Perhaps if a lot of people go to Hell, then it means that there are that many foul and wretched people out there. Who am I to judge? Only Allah judges. He knows everyone better than they know themselves. Therefore, you cannot decide if Allah is Merciful or not.

I’m glad you brought that up, Ahmad. I was thinking about it too but I didn’t want to be the first. “Until the camel goes through the eye of the needle” is an old Middle Eastern figure of speech which involves a certain amount of possible hyperbole, the way that idioms so often will. The Arabic word abada can mean “lasting”; it doesn’t have to mean “permanent”. The variant khalada can mean “a long duration”. Qur’an 11:106-108 refers to both the blessed and the condemned as being placed in their respective abodes in the hereafter to remain there forever “save as thy Lord will”—but it specifies only that the blessed have “a gift unbroken” (Arberry); it does not say the same about the condemned. ibn Taymiyya and ibn Qayyim have written about this before.

Intentions doesn't matter. As for the good deeds being rewarded ten times,that only applies to Muslims.
Because whether an atheist did a good thing,it won't count as he didn't believed in God.
Wait? Hell not eternal?
Islam teaches that hell is eternal, you cant honestly believe that God would let people off easily after they rejected him for so many years, its a myth people have bought up to try and make their life easy and coax themselves into believing they can get into paradise easily and god will forgive them.

They say, ‘The Fire will only touch us for a number of days.’ Say, ‘Have you made a contract with God - then God will not break His contract - or are you rather saying about God what you do not know?’ No indeed! Those who accumulate bad actions and are surrounded by their mistakes, are the Companions of the Fire, remaining in it timelessly, for ever. (Surat al-Baqarah: 80-81)

^This verse says 'forever' .

As for those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire. Every time they wish to get away from it, they will be forced into it, and they will be told: ‘Taste the Penalty of the Fire, which you were wont to reject as false.’ (Surat as-Sajdah: 20)

^ Shows there's no escape from hell.

Those who are disbelievers will be driven to Hell in companies and when they arrive there and its gates are opened its custodians will say to them, ‘Did Messengers from yourselves not come to you, reciting your Lord’s Signs to you and warning you of the meeting on this Day of yours? ’They will say, ‘Indeed they did, but the decree of punishment is justly carried out against the disbelievers.’ They will be told, ‘Enter the gates of Hell and stay there timelessly, for ever. How evil is the abode of the arrogant!’ (Surat az-Zumar: 71-72)

^ Again the words forever are used.


“They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment.” (Quran 5:37)


“And they will never leave of the Fire.” (Quran 2:167)


“Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever.” (Quran 4:168-169)

“And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever.” (Quran 72:23)

Majority of the scholars have agreeded on the fact that hell is forever. It's only the minority point of view that hell isn't forever.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

ahmad H be careful of putting your own interpretation beore the true interpretation. people will be in hell forever.

 

[Gintoki]

If it really did mean that then it would contradict Qur’an 2:10 and therefore be false but I don’t think it does mean any such thing. You haven’t shown the full context but it looks like it could just saying that Allah has already knows where to send somebody since He knows all.

I think there's no fossil evidence which would support the existence of devils. You're not wrong about this science thing,in fact you're right. But i don't think science can prove a supernatural evidence.All I'm looking for is logic.

Would you ordinarily have deliberately thought about evil things?

No. But my point is a evil thing which i intentionally thought about myself can't be the whispers of the devil.

I half agree that bad intentions which come out of the blue without thinking anything is a sign that it's the whispers of the devil.
There's a difference between our own free will thoughts and thoughts which came out of the blue.
Your point is that those bad intentions which i intentionally thought,apparently came from the devil. Now i don't find that logical cause while thinking,my brain is using and didn't come out nowhere. It's my freewill.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.

How does it contradict? I don't see any connection.

 

[Gintoki]

I saw no questions, rather the same old rhetoric of atheists.

Who defined the 'nature of God' to you? is it something you concluded in your own head?

Rather God has made us the promise of immortality and eternal happiness but made it a choice!

Justice isn't about what you reason in your thoughts or by the measure of your personal compass!

Rather it speaks of the creation of man from the Earth, its good and its bad!
Weed grows amidst the harvest, there is what is cultivated and that which is to be binned and you have a choice in the matter and it looks clear that you've made yours!

I haven't suggested your desire to subscribe to his laws, rather the opposite and I can already tell that it doesn't matter how many replies you receive you'll be dissatisifed as you already posed the questions & provided the replies.
Good luck with all that!

best,

Allah has 99 attributes and one of them are his Mercifulness,Kindness. Which contradicts his nature for allowing his Creation to suffer in hell forever.

Then what is Justice in your opinion?

I can already tell that it doesn't matter how many replies you receive you'll be dissatisifed as you already posed the questions & provided the replies.
You can think whatever you want,but I'm somewhat having my doubts erased slowly.

 

[Periwinkle18]

Akhi how are you going to believe in the unseen if you keep asking for logics?
.
If you keep searching for logics you'll just get stuck there you won't move forward.

 

[Gintoki]

I haven't suggested your desire to subscribe to his laws, rather the opposite and I can already tell that it doesn't matter how many replies you receive you'll be dissatisifed as you already posed the questions & provided the replies.
Good luck with all that!

Allah has 99 attributes and one of them are his Mercifulness,Kindness. Which contradicts his nature for allowing his Creation to suffer in hell forever.

Then what is Justice in your opinion?

I can already tell that it doesn't matter how many replies you receive you'll be dissatisifed as you already posed the questions & provided the replies.
You can think whatever you want,but I'm somewhat having my doubts erased slowly.

 

[Gintoki]

Here u go its not that clear my frnd took it from her iPad cam didn't come out good buh I cn see it in the middle

Nice. Is the Alif written?

 

[Periwinkle18]

Not that clear akhi buh my frnd said it was clear

The min she told me abt the apple reminded me of what I wrote in my previous post that I've always wanted to see something like tht n Alhumdulilah I did

 

[Gintoki]

gintoki you need to return to Allah as soon as possible.

please dont die upon disbelief... just take all your doubts and still accept islaam and struggle against your doubts as a muslim and not a kafir.


if you find that logic is failing yiu and answers are not found then approach a rightly guided scholar who practises tasawwuf and ask him to help you and Allah may grant you underatanding.

remember most people accepted islam due to the prophet saws. likewise maybe you need a guiding light who has knowledge and practises the inner aspects of the religion.

I think one of the conditions of accepting Islam is believing in Prophet(SAW) and Allah.
I believe they should be a God,though I'm not sure about Prophet(SAW),going to have to watch some lectures to get convinced that he's indeed the last messenger then i will accept Islam.

 

[Periwinkle18]

Well we'll pray for u InshaAllah

 

[جوري]

Allah has 99 attributes and one of them are his Mercifulness,Kindness. Which contradicts his nature for allowing his Creation to suffer in hell forever.

Yes but there are other attributes as well, even though mercy overtakes his wrath per my previous post, :Allah: doesn't love evil or evil doers and they'll be punished!

Then what is Justice in your opinion?

Justice isn't about my opinion or yours. It is about :Allah: judgement!

I'm somewhat having my doubts erased slowly

Ok!

best,

 

[IAmZamzam]

1. Temptation and influence can never exist but for free will. What of it?

2. What Qur’an 2:10 is saying is, “They have already done wrong, and I have increased their wrongdoing as a punishment for that. It’s poetic justice: ‘If you’re going to insist on being so stupid, fine then! Have all of it you want, and more of it besides!’”

3. I don’t even know what this is all about: “Islam teaches that hell is eternal, you cant honestly believe that God would let people off easily after they rejected him for so many years, its a myth people have bought up to try and make their life easy and coax themselves into believing they can get into paradise easily and god will forgive them.” What on earth...?? Whoever said it’s necessarily easy for anyone? We were only talking about possibility. Rejection, literally by definition, cannot occur entirely and on all levels by mistake. To answer your question from earlier the final test for people who didn’t know about monotheism (to name just one example of this alleged easiness), is that they are commanded to walk into hell willingly after it’s made clear to them just Who is issuing the command. Only it turns out to be heaven that they’re actually walking into. That sound easy to you?

We’ve already been over the linguistics of "forever" and it’s getting to where I just refuse to dignify these reverse ad hominems and fallacies of appeals to the majority with a response anymore (“Be careful of putting your own interpretation before the ‘true’ interpretation” is about the most telling way I’ve ever heard anyone put it!), if only because it’s never any use doing so. The collective mind of the ummah is completely and ridiculously closed when it comes to anyone ever questioning 50.1% or more of our precious scholars about anything. It’s like nobody out there understands that it’s the least bit possible to strike a balance between recognizing that there’s a limit to your own knowledge and still thinking for yourself, instead of checking your brain at the security gate because unless you have certain certifications hanging on your wall thought is not needed around here. Suffice to say it’s only to be expected that “every time someone wishes to get away from [hell] they will be driven back into it”. Nobody ever claimed anyone will get out on their own. Hell is not a place you can just escape from. I never said that my own viewpoints dictate reality. But notice just how quickly people jump to the conclusion that the viewpoints of scholarly majority automatically do, all the time, period, the end, and that’s that! The contrast there speaks for itself.

And if it is true that hell always is eternal? You’ll notice that no one ever calls it unfair for people to be rewarded forever for their finite virtues. It's a double standard, man. You can't complain about one thing but not the other.

 

[Ahmad H]

Intentions doesn't matter. As for the good deeds being rewarded ten times,that only applies to Muslims.
Because whether an atheist did a good thing,it won't count as he didn't believed in God.
Wait? Hell not eternal?
Islam teaches that hell is eternal, you cant honestly believe that God would let people off easily after they rejected him for so many years, its a myth people have bought up to try and make their life easy and coax themselves into believing they can get into paradise easily and god will forgive them.

They say, ‘The Fire will only touch us for a number of days.’ Say, ‘Have you made a contract with God - then God will not break His contract - or are you rather saying about God what you do not know?’ No indeed! Those who accumulate bad actions and are surrounded by their mistakes, are the Companions of the Fire, remaining in it timelessly, for ever. (Surat al-Baqarah: 80-81)

^This verse says 'forever' .

As for those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire. Every time they wish to get away from it, they will be forced into it, and they will be told: ‘Taste the Penalty of the Fire, which you were wont to reject as false.’ (Surat as-Sajdah: 20)

^ Shows there's no escape from hell.

Those who are disbelievers will be driven to Hell in companies and when they arrive there and its gates are opened its custodians will say to them, ‘Did Messengers from yourselves not come to you, reciting your Lord’s Signs to you and warning you of the meeting on this Day of yours? ’They will say, ‘Indeed they did, but the decree of punishment is justly carried out against the disbelievers.’ They will be told, ‘Enter the gates of Hell and stay there timelessly, for ever. How evil is the abode of the arrogant!’ (Surat az-Zumar: 71-72)

^ Again the words forever are used.


“They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment.” (Quran 5:37)


“And they will never leave of the Fire.” (Quran 2:167)


“Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever.” (Quran 4:168-169)

“And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever.” (Quran 72:23)

Majority of the scholars have agreeded on the fact that hell is forever. It's only the minority point of view that hell isn't forever.

These are translations, thus they are interpretations of the actual words of the Qur'an. And not all scholars believe that the punishment of Hell is forever. It is not my own interpretation that Hell is just for a very long time. Iamzamzam explained it well, he told you about the two key terms used in the Qur'an.

As for these other verses you used, another fact to point out is that the Qur'an is based upon the principle of justice. Allah is Most Wise, and He knows best in the end. Let's say for the sake of argument that I am wrong, and that the punishment of Hell is forever. Even then, my interpretation doesn't merit any ill intentions. I believe this view over the view that Hell is forever, simply because I believe Allah is Most Gracious, and Most Merciful. He said when He created the Heavens and the Earth, "My Mercy precedes My wrath." If His mercy precedes His wrath, then how can His wrath ever go on forever? I believe He is the Most Just, and He punishes evil only for its like. It is not a sin to think this, as my belief is in Allah's best wishes for all human beings. He loves us 100 times more than our parents love us, so how can He send us to Hell forever even though we were the worst creatures? Even if a person was the Antichrist, their mother would still love them and want good for them after they suffered punishment. Punishment is meant to fix a person, not condemn them for good.

That being said, anyone who disagrees with me has no reason to do so. I simply accept Allah's Mercy is far greater than His punishment. It is an indisputable fact. Allah does not wrong anyone by even at atom's weight. So how can He punish someone for a length of time indefinitely? What if someone became a disbeliever after they were a believer and died a disbeliever? That person suffers infinite punishment, like everyone else who was far worse? Unbelievable. I believe in Allah's Mercy. I don't think believing in that would ever merit me being a bad Muslim either, should anyone think that.

As for the comment that intentions don't matter, I advise you to listen to us before you start making things up yourself. There are so many verses of Qur'an and Ahadith that tell us that Allah only looks at intentions behind deeds and not deeds only, that you would never mistake it again. I shouldn't have to quote those. If your parents taught you anything of Islam, one of those had to have been intentions. If they honestly did not and you want quotes from the Qur'an and Ahadith, then I will post them for you. It's just I am short on time right now so I am merely stating things right now. I apologize if you might get frustrated at that. I probably would.

 

[Ahmad H]

ahmad H be careful of putting your own interpretation beore the true interpretation. people will be in hell forever.

I wasn't making my own interpretations on this subject. I am very serious when I say that the punishment in Hell is not forever.

 

[Gintoki]

And if it is true that hell always is eternal? You’ll notice that no one ever calls it unfair for people to be rewarded forever for their finite virtues. It's a double standard, man. You can't complain about one thing but not the other.

Again,i don't see the connection man. He might have increased their wrongdoings as a punishment,but i don't see how it contradicts the other verse about God already decided that who will go to hell.
Final test seems fair,though won't the majority be scared to even think about going inside hell?

Yes,there's a limit to the scholar's knowledge. But how many percent of scholars agree to the fact that hell is eternal? I think about 90% but i could be wrong..
Last i heard,Quran is very clear,but regarding this topic it's not.
And as for Prophet(SAW) companions,how did they know that hell fire isn't eternal?

Let's assume if you and Ahmad H are right,after their time in hell,where would they go?

And if it is true that hell always is eternal? You’ll notice that no one ever calls it unfair for people to be rewarded forever for their finite virtues. It's a double standard, man. You can't complain about one thing but not the other.

Manly people question this is because as Ahmad H said ,God is kind and his Mercy overcomes His wrath,Why would his wrath go on forever? That's why I'm especially questioning this as it sounds contradictory as His Nature is kind.

Btw forgot to question this before,as you said before the scientific facts were not known in Arabia at that time,but couldn't have it have been known if people migrated to Arabia and shared that scientific knowledge with the Arabians?

 

[Gintoki]

1. Temptation and influence can never exist but for free will. What of it?

We are getting nowhere it seems,I just need a straightforward answer that how the devils whispers in our ears but it's really our thinking. Our mind being used to think,not random thoughts.

 

[Gintoki]

As for the comment that intentions don't matter, I advise you to listen to us before you start making things up yourself. There are so many verses of Qur'an and Ahadith that tell us that Allah only looks at intentions behind deeds and not deeds only, that you would never mistake it again. I shouldn't have to quote those. If your parents taught you anything of Islam, one of those had to have been intentions. If they honestly did not and you want quotes from the Qur'an and Ahadith, then I will post them for you. It's just I am short on time right now so I am merely stating things right now. I apologize if you might get frustrated at that. I probably would.

Since they are interpretations of the actual words of the Quran,then shouldn't they be accurate? Not all,but majority does.
I look from the Majority > Minority point of view.

That was what exactly i was thinking,His wrath can't go on for eternity.

Listening,and I'm not making things up. I read several places that Non-Muslims like atheist wont get awarded as they did the good deeds to only feel good and get fame instead of doing it for Allah. Correct me if wrong.

And yes,do post the quotes.