ENGLAND: Home of the Islamophobe extremists...

[Karl]

I suppose they may be frightened and sucking up to the masses. The government could force the Muslims to leave the country. As the Queen is "Defender of the Faith" which is Protestant and if they feel Islam is a threat to them. It is possible as tensions grow that all non Whites could be seen as a threat, a little Crusade could happen in Britain. So the Imams are trying to appease the situation and not fire up a civil war which the murderers want to happen.

 

[Mustafa2012]

:wa:

He may not know that is is a banned organisation. He probably does not know that they have serious problems with their Aqeedah and methology. He probably agrees with their Aqeedah and methology. I will wait to see how Junon responds.

However, there is nothing with the article itself that I disagree with.

I seriously doubt it.

Even the video is of a guy who speaks on behalf of that organization.

He has also posted other articles from this same organization on this thread a few pages back.

The article is about diverting attention but yet the organization seem to be using this to divert attention away from extremism.

 

[Mustafa2012]

I suppose they may be frightened and sucking up to the masses. The government could force the Muslims to leave the country. As the Queen is "Defender of the Faith" which is Protestant and if they feel Islam is a threat to them. It is possible as tensions grow that all non Whites could be seen as a threat, a little Crusade could happen in Britain. So the Imams are trying to appease the situation and not fire up a civil war which the murderers want to happen.

No one is sucking up to anyone. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.

The government could do what you suggest but Muslims as a whole have been cleared of the recent crime as The Prime Minister and Mayor of London have both acknowledged that the recent attack was done by individuals with an extremely warped and incorrect idea of Islam. This means Muslims will not be leaving the country any time soon insha Allaah.

I don't understand why idiots like the EDL don't believe what their own Prime Minister said.

 

[GuestFellow]

I seriously doubt it.

Even the video is of a guy who speaks on behalf of that organization.

He has also posted other articles from this same organization on this thread a few pages back.

The article is about diverting attention but yet the organization seem to be using this to divert attention away from extremism.

I see nothing wrong with the article. I'm not well aware of this group Hizb. However, the article appears to be addressing the issue about the recent stabbings.

If your going to make a set of allegations then you should prove it.

 

[Mustafa2012]

I see nothing wrong with the article. I'm not well aware of this group Hizb. However, the article appears to be addressing the issue about the recent stabbings.

If your going to make a set of allegations then you should prove it.

Ok I will. Let's wait to see what Junon has to say first.

 

[Karl]

No one is sucking up to anyone. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.

The government could do what you suggest but Muslims as a whole have been cleared of the recent crime as The Prime Minister and Mayor of London have both acknowledged that the recent attack was done by individuals with an extremely warped and incorrect idea of Islam. This means Muslims will not be leaving the country any time soon insha Allaah.

I don't understand why idiots like the EDL don't believe what their own Prime Minister said.

True ... but minorities have to tread carefully.

 

[GuestFellow]

Ok I will. Let's wait to see what Junon has to say first.

Fair enough. I don't know much about this group so I'm eager to see what you guys have to say.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Yes and politicians like this should be banned to:

[h=1]Tony Blair: ‘There is a problem within Islam’[/h]
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair urged governments to “be honest” and address radical Islamization in a column he posted to the Daily Mail on Sunday.
“There is not a problem with Muslims in general. Most in Britain will be horrified at Lee Rigby’s murder,” he wrote. “But there is a problem within Islam — from the adherents of an ideology which is a strain within Islam.”
“We have to put it on the table and be honest about it. Of course there are Christian extremists and Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu ones. But I am afraid this strain is not the province of a few extremists. It has at its heart a view about religion and about the interaction between religion and politics that is not compatible with pluralistic, liberal, open-minded societies.”
Mr. Blair’s comments come as Prime Minister David Cameron prepares to make a statement about the Woolwich murder Monday afternoon, the Daily Mail reports.
“At the extreme end of the spectrum are terrorists, but the world view goes deeper and wider than it is comfortable for us to admit. So by and large we don’t admit it,” Mr. Blair continued. “The seeds of future fanaticism and terror, possibly even major conflict, are being sown. We have to help sow seeds of reconciliation and peace.”


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news..._source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS#ixzz2VLffX7fN

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

:wa:

Bro why do you keep posting articles from a banned organization ^ that is known to have serious problems with their Aqeedah and methodology?

Muslims should be blamed when Muslims are in the wrong and are causing problems for the majority of other Muslims who don't agree with certain actions which have no basis in Islam.

Salaam

I think you’re in engaging in playing the man rather than the ball. Consider what people are saying rather than who’s saying it. On this topic they are on the ball.

Their analysis of this situation is clear and to the point unlike other Muslim organisations who are too busy pandering to the establishment’s hysterical overreaction to this event. The Muslims who committed this crime are the ones who responsible, not the whole community, if there were organisations condoning it that would be a serious problem but the vast majority of community (including this organisation) didn't.

Banned? I didn't know that, though thinking about it, it’s hardly surprising. An independent voice giving perceptive commentary on British governments actions and intentions for the Muslim community. Can’t have that now can we? Better to have Muslim organisations that are tame and timid and know how to ‘boot lick’ on command. So no wonder (in this case the British government) wants to get rid of them.

Having said that I generally agree with you on Aqeedah and methodology though I’m no expert, I post from various websites, doesn't mean I agree with what they say or their worldview.

Yes and politicians like this should be banned to:

[h=1]Tony Blair: ‘There is a problem within Islam’[/h]
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair urged governments to “be honest” and address radical Islamization in a column he posted to the Daily Mail on Sunday.

ha ha ha Ha Ha Ha HA HA HA!

The Irony meter, please think of the irony meter!

 

[Independent]

Yes and politicians like this should be banned to:

Tony Blair: ‘There is a problem within Islam’

May I ask exactly why you don't like this statement? Is it because he says 'within Islam' instead of 'among Muslims' or some equivalent phrase (ie making it clear that is individual Muslims who are at fault, not the religion itself)? If so, I think that's actually exactly what he means to say here.

Or perhaps there is another reason you don't like it?

 

[Mustafa2012]

Yes and politicians like this should be banned to:

Tony Blair: ‘There is a problem within Islam’


Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair urged governments to “be honest” and address radical Islamization in a column he posted to the Daily Mail on Sunday.
“There is not a problem with Muslims in general. Most in Britain will be horrified at Lee Rigby’s murder,” he wrote. “But there is a problem within Islam — from the adherents of an ideology which is a strain within Islam.”
“We have to put it on the table and be honest about it. Of course there are Christian extremists and Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu ones. But I am afraid this strain is not the province of a few extremists. It has at its heart a view about religion and about the interaction between religion and politics that is not compatible with pluralistic, liberal, open-minded societies.”
Mr. Blair’s comments come as Prime Minister David Cameron prepares to make a statement about the Woolwich murder Monday afternoon, the Daily Mail reports.
“At the extreme end of the spectrum are terrorists, but the world view goes deeper and wider than it is comfortable for us to admit. So by and large we don’t admit it,” Mr. Blair continued. “The seeds of future fanaticism and terror, possibly even major conflict, are being sown. We have to help sow seeds of reconciliation and peace.”


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news..._source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS#ixzz2VLffX7fN

His opinion is worth zero considering the amount of damage he's done in Iraq and other countries.

 

[GuestFellow]

May I ask exactly why you don't like this statement? Is it because he says 'within Islam' instead of 'among Muslims' or some equivalent phrase (ie making it clear that is individual Muslims who are at fault, not the religion itself)? If so, I think that's actually exactly what he means to say here.

Or perhaps there is another reason you don't like it?

Well there is a difference between Islam and Muslims. Islam is a belief system. Muslims follow that belief system known as Islam. To say there's a problem within Islam is to say there is a problem within the belief system.

The reason I don't like it because politicians time and time again do not want to admit the truth. The reason some Muslims are being violent because they dislike British foreign policy. I mean you actually get some Muslims that say that they are committing a violence acts because they don't like the way Muslims are being treated. STILL you get politicians and mainstream media that ignore this and spout some other backqwas.

Oh I don't like how these people use the term Islam. There is no such thing as Islaminsm or whatever words people use now. So annoying.

 

[Mustafa2012]

Salaam

Salaam

I think you’re in engaging in playing the man rather than the ball. Consider what people are saying rather than who’s saying it. On this topic they are on the ball.

Their analysis of this situation is clear and to the point unlike other Muslim organisations who are too busy pandering to the establishment’s hysterical overreaction to this event. The Muslims who committed this crime are the ones who responsible, not the whole community, if there were organisations condoning it that would be a serious problem but the vast majority of community (including this organisation) didn't.

Banned? I didn't know that, though thinking about it, it’s hardly surprising. An independent voice giving perceptive commentary on British governments actions and intentions for the Muslim community. Can’t have that now can we? Better to have Muslim organisations that are tame and timid and know how to ‘boot lick’ on command. So no wonder (in this case the British government) wants to get rid of them.

Having said that I generally agree with you on Aqeedah and methodology though I’m no expert, I post from various websites, doesn't mean I agree with what they say or their worldview.

ha ha ha Ha Ha Ha HA HA HA!

The Irony meter, please think of the irony meter!

I'm engaging in playing the banned organization and wondering how can we take what they say seriously. Before I take any advice from an organization I look at their Aqeedah and Methodology. Unfortunately and with all due respect to any good intentions they have, Hizbut Tahrir are incorrect in both.

What contribution have they made to the Da'wah in the U.K? What bridges have they built with local communities?

I find it hard to take their words seriously. Their analysis is not helpful in times like these. Their advice is often defensive.

The reason many Muslim organizations have spoken out against the Woolwich attack is because they need to make it clear that they do not agree with the actions of those two individuals.

Have you ever heard the saying,"Silence is consent"? Well that is what the British assume when we remain silent in these types of fitan.

Maybe you're ok with remaining silent and expecting the locals to read the minds of the Muslim community however silence does not stop innocent Muslim women and men being attacked for a crime they didn't commit or agree with.

Despite what you might think, the majority of British do not know much about Islam. They only know what the Zionist media feeds them. They can easily assume as EDL did, that what those two ignorant men did was what Islam teaches. Unless all the Muslims make it clear that, that is not the case, most of the British will think it is. That's why Muslims have made such an effort to make it clear that there was no justification in Islam for what happened and that they acted totally indendently.

Hizbut Tahrir are banned not because they have an independent voice and are speaking against the government. They are banned because:

1. Firstly - they have an incorrect Aqeedah and methodology.
2. They are not known to be providing any benefit to the U.K. community or helping to build bridges.
3. Instead they are sowing seeds of ignorance and causing problems for Muslims in the U.K

Besides that some of their members don't even pray, don't have even basic knowledge of Islam and still think they can get establish a Khilafah before calling people to Tawheed.

The articles you posted show them taking a very defensive view of the whole situation and they seem to be focusing all the blame on the UK and US Foreign policy.

It may be true that US and UK foreign policy played some part in the motives for the attack however there is no justification or evidence in Islam for killing an un-armed civilian in a land where no war is taking place.

Instead of posting articles from organizations that are clearly ignorant and in no position to be commenting on the recent attacks, it would be be fare more beneficial to learn your Deen. Study the Seerah and learn the correct Aqeedah and learn the Fiqh of interacting and living amongst The People of The Book.

 

[GuestFellow]

Have you ever heard the saying,"Silence is consent"? Well that is what the British assume when we remain silent in these types of fitan.

:wa:

Time and time again Muslims and related organisations have said Muslims do not support violent acts. BUT some people still think otherwise. These people can get lost. Who cares what they think.

Besides if a women is being raped but is silent because she is too scared to scream for help does that mean she has given consent?

Hizbut Tahrir are banned not because they have an independent voice and are speaking against the government. They are banned because:

1. Firstly - they have an incorrect Aqeedah and methodology.
2. They are not known to be providing any benefit to the U.K. community or helping to build bridges.
3. Instead they are sowing seeds of ignorance and causing problems for Muslims in the U.K

Who exactly banned this group?

 

[Mustafa2012]

:wa:

Time and time again Muslims and related organisations have said Muslims do not support violent acts. BUT some people still think otherwise. These people can get lost. Who cares what they think.

Besides if a women is being raped but is silent because she is too scared to scream for help does that mean she has given consent?

Who exactly banned this group?

Brother, if you've even been involved in Da'wah of any kind you should know better than to say, "they can get lost".

I don't think the analogy you made is a good one.

It is just the mentality of Western communities that silence equals consent.

Most British have no interest in Islam and believe what the Zionist feed them about Islam. Unless we make a concerted effort to make clear what the correct Islamic opinion on any given topic is, they will assume otherwise.

When innocent Muslim men and women are at risk of attack due to the ignorant actions of a few individuals, we cannot just say things like, "They can get lost" for thinking that there is justification in Islam despite many Muslims denouncing it.

In a situation like this, it is necessary to keep repeating that we disagree with these actions until the UK community understand we really do disagree with it and that there is no justification in Islam for it.

Hizbut Tahrir were banned by the UK government as far as I remember. A number of other Muslim organizations were also not happy with the work they were doing.

 

[GuestFellow]

Brother, if you've even been involved in Da'wah of any kind you should know better than to say, "they can get lost".

:wa:

Yes it is fine to say once or twice that Muslims do not condone violent acts. However to say it over and over again is taking micky.

I don't think the analogy you made is a good one.

Why?

 

[Karl]

Tony Blair is a war pig. What's he talking about? Hypocrite! I suppose it's the Zionist way to cause havoc and then cry about any backlash. The guy is a snake.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

I don't think there's much benefit in ranting about how non-Muslims misunderstand Islam. That's their problem. If they don't want to understand, nothing we say will make them understand.

What I think we should concentrate on is to overtly demonstrate the truth of Islam. I don't think it's enough for us to just go about our lives as Muslims. We need to speak up and reach out to our neighbors, who are our neighbors regardless of whether they are Muslims or otherwise. It's not much use to make public announcements of condemnation after the attrocities have been committed by some people who claim to be Muslims. It's sort of like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

One other thing. I am in no position to say with certainty about the status of the two suspects in the Woolwich incident. We are told that they are Muslims. What do we know about them? Do they fulfill the conditions of being Muslims in the first place? Mind you, I am not saying that they are not Muslims. I am just asking how we know that they are Muslims in the first place?

 

[Abz2000]

Lol, it's amazing how we're focusing on appeasing the kuffar who do their best to defame Islam while forgetting to appease Allah (myself included),

How often have Islamic preachers been labelled "hate preachers" and "extremists" just for taking the pulpit and denouncing the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? I remember many occasions, including instances where people have been banned from discussing America and Britain's evil actions in mosque gatherings.
Yet we are expected to come all out in condemnation of the killing of a killer of Muslims?

It may be true that US and UK foreign policy played some part in the motives for the attack however there is no justification or evidence in Islam for killing an un-armed civilian in a land where no war is taking place.

Un-armed civilian? What was anwar awlaki's 15 year old son?
In a land where no war is taking place??? Ever heard of babar Ahmed? Research the brutal attack by police and how they were all let off the hook with a slap on the wrists.
Anyone recall the injured Muslim being machine gunned to death while he lay down in the refuge of a mosque in fallujah? A land where they illegally began a war and starved children to death....


---

It would have made no sense whatsoever if leaders from among bani israil had gone around ranting about extremism due to the actions of some disaffected fighters in response to the murders by pharaoh of all the male children of the believers.
We would probably now have been referring to them as munafiqeen.
God forgave Moses for his angry act/murder of an Egyptian.
But he didn't forgive pharaoh his kufr and murders of thousands of Muslims.

Where is our sense of al Walaa Wal Baraa?

 

[Abz2000]

Notice the pattern, how tony Blair claims the problem is within Islam, while before or after every operation, these "extremists" clearly state that their actions are due to uk and us foreign policy......
....and not because they converted to Islam and suddenly found a command to "kill all the infadels" in exchange for 72 virgins.


The Stockholm bomber’s family blames England for turning him from a normal boy into a fanatic. Some point to unemployment and social deprivation as the reasons for the extremes found in Luton. But Baskh lays the blame squarely at the doors of the government.

“Before 9/11 we had never had these issues, so all this has developed since 9/11. The government’s foreign policy, that’s what’s sparked all this up, going into Iraq, an illegal war, killing women and children, going into Afghanistan, carpet-bombing indiscriminately,” explains Baskh.