God told me to invade, says Bush

its true that we shouldn't judge others. watever they do is between them n allah. allah will judge them on the day of ressurection. but one thing for sure is that there is no prophet or messenger after mohamed pbuh. the only humans that receive revelation n message from god r prophets n messengers.
salaam
__________________

Thanks for agreeing...I don't think we should not judge either like Jesus tells us also.
Matthew 7:2-5 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

This is why the woman was not stoned.. :) only Jesus could have but he choose not to in his mercy for her...but he did tell her to sin no more!

One difference between Islam and Christianity is that we do recieve prophesies a gift from God..the messages, warnings of Gods wrath. etc these can come from the Holy Spirit or Angels.
 
But we do know Gods standards....Jesus was sinless when he came in human form..he was tempted like the rest of us...but he resisted the only human ever to....We know God wants us as Jesus is..sinless and Holy like God himself.

that is the whole point of Christainity to live in Christ so long as we live in him...It is impossible to sin. When we step out of Christ we begin to sin again. It is a totaly amazing experience..
Our prophet was also Sinless. I mean no disrespect or offense but our Prophet's (pbuh) teaching are more practical when implemented today. We are tought about everything from how to cut our nails to how to punish a criminal.
 
Originally Posted by Nicola
Many Muslims receive visions and when they have immediatly turn to Jesus as their saviour..this is between God and man.

I dont understand what you are saying? Why would a Muslim who has had visions turn to Jesus and not God? Do you have evidence of this?
We already have someone who has had visions yet he remains a Muslim.

Because that Muslim now knows that Jesus is the only way to get God to listen to his prayers for one..the only way for salvation..
I have evidence personal and much evidence from websites from ex Muslims..
also evidence from Jews who have recieved visions from Jesus.
One ex Muslim comes to mind...a ex PLO Pal terrorist named Walid Shoebat
he is now a prophet.

Others have found the percentage higher. Karel Sanders, a missionary in South Africa, reported that among African Muslims, "42 percent of the new believers come to Christ through visions, dreams, angelic appearances and hearing God's voice." According to Dawn's Friday Fax, a website that focuses on missionary reports, Arabic-speaking moderators explain supernatural experiences such as dreams, visions and healings through prayer to Jesus. "This is a hot topic in our region. People from all over the Middle East call us, telling how they were healed through prayer in Jesus' name," they quote one missionary as saying. "Muslim listeners often call to tell us about dreams and visions of Jesus, wanting to know what that means for them."

Many Moslems have been prepared for that step by their supernatural encounters, and accept the invitation. Some time ago, Bill Bright, director of the mission agency Campus Crusade for Christ, wrote that "we are experiencing an amazing phenomenon. Moslems in particular are having dreams and visions confirming the reality of Christ. After one radio program reported that Jesus had appeared to many Moslems in a dream and said to them 'I am the way,' the radio station received thousands of letters from Moslems in North Africa and the Middle East, in which the listeners said they had suddenly understood earlier dreams. They then wanted more information about Jesus."

http://amightywind.com/dreams/040723muslimdreams.htm

There are many thousands out there recieving visions, having encounters with Jesus...it's so wonderful...Praise God. He is pouring his spirit out..Just like Jesus tells us...when the ends was nigh Gods spirit would be poured out ...I could give you loads of info...but there is no point really...you have to recieve yourself to believe..well I know I wouldn't of ever believed it hadn't happened to me personaly if only I'd have known years ago it was easy and simple to recieve!
 
Our prophet was also Sinless. I mean no disrespect or offense but our Prophet's (pbuh) teaching are more practical when implemented today. We are tought about everything from how to cut our nails to how to punish a criminal.

I know you mean no disrespect.. and I mean none when I say..In Christianity only Jesus was sinless, thats why he was the perfect sacrifice..for all our sins.
When ever the Jews in the OT scarificed animals to God...because that's what God requires 'Blood' for man-kinds sins...the animal had to be pure without blemish.

What we Christians must do is to aim to be like Jesus sinless and that can't be done without the Holy Spirit living inside us..and we living inside Jesus...like he lives in the Father...
When we do that..we don't need set rules and regulations because Gods law is in your heart then you know everything that is needed to honour and gloryfy our Holy Father.
 
HeiGou said:

and Christians do talk to God all the time,

Don't Muslims talk to God then?

not be rude of anything..I just expected that they speak with God also.
 
I tend to think God does not. Mullahs tell them to. After all God did not speak to Muhammed - only an Angel traditionally assumed to be Gabriel.

?? uhmm im not sure where you got that from the words of the quran were sent to prophet mohammed (pbuh) by god.

heance the quran being the word of god...
 
Notice who is doing the talking - a Palestinian minister. Would you say that perhaps he was not a close political ally or friend of George Bush? Would you say that perhaps this non-native English speaker might have a slight prejudice or even political interest here?

The palastinan pres was there he did not report it my friend it was in the news and radio...
 
?? uhmm im not sure where you got that from the words of the quran were sent to prophet mohammed (pbuh) by god.

heance the quran being the word of god...

Well it is not an area I claim any expertise in, but weren't those word not given to him directly from God but transmitted via the Archangel Gabriel?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 451:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

(as regards) Allah's Statement:

"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16)

When Gabriel revealed the Divine Inspiration in Allah's Apostle, he (Allah's Apostle) moved his tongue and lips, and that state used to be very hard for him, and that movement indicated that revelation was taking place. So Allah revealed in Surat Al-Qiyama which begins:

'I do swear by the Day of Resurrection...' (75) the Verses:--

'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it (Quran) in your mind, and give you the ability to recite it by heart. (75.16-17) Ibn Abbas added: It is for Us to collect it (Qur'an) (in your mind), and give you the ability to recite it by heart means, "When We reveal it, listen. Then it is for Us to explain it," means, 'It is for us to explain it through your tongue.' So whenever Gabriel came to Allah's Apostle ' he would keep quiet (and listen), and when the Angel left, the Prophet would recite that revelation as Allah promised him.

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0301:

A'isha, the wife of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), reported: The first (form) with which was started the revelation to the Messenger of Allah was the true vision in sleep. And he did not see any vision but it came like the bright gleam of dawn. Thenceforth solitude became dear to him and he used to seclude himself in the cave of Hira', where he would engage in tahannuth (and that is a worship for a number of nights) before returning to his family and getting provisions again for this purpose. He would then return to Khadija and take provisions for a like period, till Truth came upon him while he was in the cave of Hira'. There came to him the angel and said: Recite, to which he replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me [the Apostle said] and pressed me, till I was hard pressed; thereafter he let me off and said: Recite. I said: I am not lettered. He then again took hold of me and pressed me for the second time till I was hard pressed and then let me off and said: Recite, to which I replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me and pressed me for the third time, till I was hard pressed and then let me go and said: Recite in the name of your Lord Who created, created man from a clot of blood. Recite. And your most bountiful Lord is He Who taught the use of pen, taught man what he knew not (al-Qur'an, xcvi. 1-4). Then the Prophet returned therewith, his heart was trembling, and he went to Khadija and said: Wrap me up, wrap me up! So they wrapped him till the fear had left him. He then said to Khadija: O Khadija! what has happened to me? and he informed her of the happening, saying: I fear for myself. She replied: It can't be. Be happy. I swear by Allah that He shall never humiliate you. By Allah, you join ties of relationship, you speak the truth, you bear people's burden, you help the destitute, you entertain guests, and you help against the vicissitudes which affect people. Khadija then took him to Waraqa b. Naufal b. Asad b. 'Abd al-'Uzza, and he was the son of Khadija's uncle, i. e., the brother of her father. And he was the man who had embraced Christianity in the Days of Ignorance (i. e. before Islam) and he used to write books in Arabic and, therefore, wrote Injil in Arabic as God willed that he should write. He was very old and had become blind Khadija said to him: O uncle! listen to the son of your brother. Waraqa b. Naufal said: O my nephew! what did you see? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), then, informed him what he had seen, and Waraqa said to him: It is namus that God sent down to Musa. Would that I were then (during your prophetic career) a young man. Would that I might be alive when your people would expel you! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Will they drive me out? Waraqa said: Yes. Never came a man with a like of what you have brought but met hostilities. If I see your day I shall help you wholeheartedly.​
 
You mean Iraq don't you?

How about http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4317498.stm

The White House has dismissed as "absurd" allegations made in a BBC TV series that President Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq.
"He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

The comments were attributed to Mr Bush by the Palestinian negotiator Nabil Shaath in the upcoming TV series Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

Mr Shaath said that in a 2003 meeting with Mr Bush, the US president said he was "driven with a mission from God".

Holy war?

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did.

"'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

The TV series charts recent attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US President Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip this year.

It seeks to uncover what happened behind closed doors by speaking to presidents and prime ministers, along with their generals and ministers.​



I think by "a number of occasions" you mean "never".



Actually that is not what he said but even if it was, so what? You think God is not going to be his judge? That he should not pray before going to war? That he should not think about what God wants before doing such things?

Of course all he said was that he prayed before making the decision. Big deal.

Again from the BBC

This is the transcript of Prime Minister Tony Blair's comments, on ITV1's Parkinson show, about the decision to go to war in Iraq:
Tony Blair: "That decision has to be taken and has to be lived with, and in the end there is a judgement that, well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgement is made by other people, and also by..."

Michael Parkinson: "Sorry, what do you mean by that?"

Blair: "I mean by other people, by, if you believe in God, it's made by God as well and that judgement in the end has to be, you know, you do your...

"When you're faced with a decision like that, and some of those decisions have been very, very difficult, as I say, most of all because you know there are people's lives, not just, this isn't a matter of a policy here or a thing there but their lives, and in some case, their death.

"The only way you can take a decision like that is to try to do the right thing according to your conscience, and for the rest of it you leave it, as I say, to the judgement that history will make."

Parkinson: "So you would pray to God when you make a decision like that?"

Blair: "Well, you know, I don't want to go into..."

Parkinson: "No, but, I mean, you've said that."

Blair: "Yeah."

Parkinson: "You've said that it would be informed..."

Blair: "Of course. You struggle with your own conscience about it because people's lives are affected, and it's one of these situations that I suppose very few people ever find themselves in, in doing, but in the end you do what you think is the right thing."​


Thank you for your post...now read what they have said and sorry i this suppoused to prove me wrong or right??

Thanks for the pst again...
 
Well it is not an area I claim any expertise in, but weren't those word not given to him directly from God but transmitted via the Archangel Gabriel?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 451:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

(as regards) Allah's Statement:

"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16)

When Gabriel revealed the Divine Inspiration in Allah's Apostle, he (Allah's Apostle) moved his tongue and lips, and that state used to be very hard for him, and that movement indicated that revelation was taking place. So Allah revealed in Surat Al-Qiyama which begins:

'I do swear by the Day of Resurrection...' (75) the Verses:--

'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it (Quran) in your mind, and give you the ability to recite it by heart. (75.16-17) Ibn Abbas added: It is for Us to collect it (Qur'an) (in your mind), and give you the ability to recite it by heart means, "When We reveal it, listen. Then it is for Us to explain it," means, 'It is for us to explain it through your tongue.' So whenever Gabriel came to Allah's Apostle ' he would keep quiet (and listen), and when the Angel left, the Prophet would recite that revelation as Allah promised him.

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0301:

A'isha, the wife of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), reported: The first (form) with which was started the revelation to the Messenger of Allah was the true vision in sleep. And he did not see any vision but it came like the bright gleam of dawn. Thenceforth solitude became dear to him and he used to seclude himself in the cave of Hira', where he would engage in tahannuth (and that is a worship for a number of nights) before returning to his family and getting provisions again for this purpose. He would then return to Khadija and take provisions for a like period, till Truth came upon him while he was in the cave of Hira'. There came to him the angel and said: Recite, to which he replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me [the Apostle said] and pressed me, till I was hard pressed; thereafter he let me off and said: Recite. I said: I am not lettered. He then again took hold of me and pressed me for the second time till I was hard pressed and then let me off and said: Recite, to which I replied: I am not lettered. He took hold of me and pressed me for the third time, till I was hard pressed and then let me go and said: Recite in the name of your Lord Who created, created man from a clot of blood. Recite. And your most bountiful Lord is He Who taught the use of pen, taught man what he knew not (al-Qur'an, xcvi. 1-4). Then the Prophet returned therewith, his heart was trembling, and he went to Khadija and said: Wrap me up, wrap me up! So they wrapped him till the fear had left him. He then said to Khadija: O Khadija! what has happened to me? and he informed her of the happening, saying: I fear for myself. She replied: It can't be. Be happy. I swear by Allah that He shall never humiliate you. By Allah, you join ties of relationship, you speak the truth, you bear people's burden, you help the destitute, you entertain guests, and you help against the vicissitudes which affect people. Khadija then took him to Waraqa b. Naufal b. Asad b. 'Abd al-'Uzza, and he was the son of Khadija's uncle, i. e., the brother of her father. And he was the man who had embraced Christianity in the Days of Ignorance (i. e. before Islam) and he used to write books in Arabic and, therefore, wrote Injil in Arabic as God willed that he should write. He was very old and had become blind Khadija said to him: O uncle! listen to the son of your brother. Waraqa b. Naufal said: O my nephew! what did you see? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), then, informed him what he had seen, and Waraqa said to him: It is namus that God sent down to Musa. Would that I were then (during your prophetic career) a young man. Would that I might be alive when your people would expel you! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Will they drive me out? Waraqa said: Yes. Never came a man with a like of what you have brought but met hostilities. If I see your day I shall help you wholeheartedly.​

Allah sent visons to the prophet where he saw the words from allah within a cave and what you refer to is allah speaking the revelations through the angel gabriel not the angel gabriel speaking to prophet mohammed (pbuh)
 
The prophet was illiterate, therefore ALLah(swt)or GOD sent Gabriel(as) to recite chapter after chapter to the Prophet(pbh) over a 22 1/2 year period!!!

The Prophet(pbh) memorized what Gabriel(as) has recited to him, then he taught his companions!!! and soforth
 
The prophet was illiterate, therefore ALLah(swt)or GOD sent Gabriel(as) to recite chapter after chapter to the Prophet(pbh) over a 22 1/2 year period!!!

The Prophet(pbh) memorized what Gabriel(as) has recited to him, then he taught his companions!!! and soforth

then after the death of the prophet pbuh the quraan was memorised by many muslims till today.
salaam
 
The White House has dismissed as "absurd" allegations made in a BBC TV series that President Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq.
"He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Thank you for your post...now read what they have said and sorry i this suppoused to prove me wrong or right??

Wrong. You did not read the first part. I have not denied that a Palestinian non-Native English speaker and enemy of Bush claimed he said that, I said that the White House has denied he said it. Which they have done. Many times. So it is not true that Bush has said this many time. It is true that he has denied it many times.

Thanks for the pst again...

My pleasure.
 
The prophet was illiterate, therefore ALLah(swt)or GOD sent Gabriel(as) to recite chapter after chapter to the Prophet(pbh) over a 22 1/2 year period!!!

The Prophet(pbh) memorized what Gabriel(as) has recited to him, then he taught his companions!!! and soforth

Umm, I think you think I am making a claim I am not. I am not attacking the sacred nature of the Quran. I am saying that (in my experience which may be wrong) Muslims do not claim to speak to God - even Muhammed did not speak directly to God, but to an Angel which was probably Gabriel.

And I have my doubts about how illiterate Muhammed was but as that will only cause bad feeling let's save that for another day.
 
Wrong. You did not read the first part. I have not denied that a Palestinian non-Native English speaker and enemy of Bush claimed he said that, I said that the White House has denied he said it. Which they have done. Many times. So it is not true that Bush has said this many time. It is true that he has denied it many times.



My pleasure.

i see..my apologise then...

However to say that the palastinian pres said it as a lie as you said beacuse he is his enemy? is a bit absurd... bush claimed he was not even in a meeting of this sort? you are correct someone is lying...i wonder who...
 
Correct me if I am mistaken but when we pray, we pray to God, when we make Dua'a, we make Dua'a to God.
 
Correct me if I am mistaken but when we pray, we pray to God, when we make Dua'a, we make Dua'a to God.

Sorry I didn't mean to offend ..if I did

I was just wondering..
Do you pray in a different way to how say a Christians would pray to God.

Ours are Personal Prayers, like one would talk with a Father.
I can't talk for all Christians of course..But that is how we are taught by Jesus to pray.
 

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