If Jesus Was God Then...

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The Bible is God's Word. It has not been lost through the ages; it has just been translated differently for better understanding. There may be many different translations, but they all contain the same message.
That doesn't make sense. The bible was lost through the ages, yet it still contains the same message? Even changing one word in a sentance can completely change the meaning.
 
That doesn't make sense. The bible was lost through the ages, yet it still contains the same message? Even changing one word in a sentance can completely change the meaning.


This is what is puzzling me about the Quran as well. Since I can only read the English translation, the meaning must be completely different than the Arabic meaning. So what's the point in an English speaker embracing Islam?
 
This is what is puzzling me about the Quran as well. Since I can only read the English translation, the meaning must be completely different than the Arabic meaning. So what's the point in an English speaker embracing Islam?

The point in an English speaker embracing Islam lies in the fact that Islam is a universal religion and that Prophet Muhammad salallahu 'alayhi wassalam was sent as 'Mercy to all the world'.

Read through the English translation. If you think the meaning must be completely different than the Arabic meaning, you can always learn Arabic.

Of all the Muslims of the world, 90% are non-Arabs as a matter of fact.
 
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Greetings and peace Mu'MiNaH;

Why does God The All-Merciful need a blood sacrifice to forgive the sins of humanity,

i am talking personally here but I don’t think that Jesus’ life and death was for the benefit of God it was more for my benefit, I have a greater belief that my sins can be forgiven because Christ was prepared to do something.

In a way it might be like me saying to you. I will give you a million dollars next year.
Your reply would be ‘Yeah right you expect me to believe that.

But if you knew that I had already given your friend a million, you might just believe me.

The talk is easy, if God said your sins are forgiven, there is life after death and he didn’t do anything to show me then I probably would not believe.

Each of us needs some kind of proof from God that seems believable, and the life of Jesus is my inspiration, in the same kind of way that the life of the Prophet pbuh. inspires you.
a blood sacrifice who was completely innocent. And how has this blood sacrifice benefitted anyone? The world is just as evil if not more. Just take a look around the world around you.

It seems in man’s nature that we commit evil; only God can put a stop to evil.

In the spirit of searching together

Eric
 
Greetings and peace muslim knight,
He would have placed the crufixion in the beginning so that the Messengers and pious men would have affirmed Jesus right away. This would be then be recorded in the Bible.
God works in mysterious ways, between Adam and Mosses there was no real law, and you could even say that the Prophet pbuh. should have been placed at the beginning for the same kind of reasons.

God would not have to suddenly change the method of how people would obtain His Mercy and forgiveness. God does not act on impulse like we mortals do.

As you have said God’s plan would be set and would not change, it seems that mankind had to be given his message in various stages because it might have been too much for us to take in one go.

In the spirit of searching for faith,

Eric
 
Greetings The Architect,

The reason I say religion is man's creation is because of the varying number of interpretations of His message that are out there.
If all religions were simply various interpretations of one message, then we should not expect them to be contradictory to each other: one says there is only one God, while others say this God has a son/daughter, others say there are many Gods and others say there is no God. Clearly, only one of these descriptions can be right, since God would not like His servants to be saying things about Him that are incorrect and offensive and attributing His power to others.

You believe that the prophet Muhammad had it right. I believe that Muhammad was a liar and that Jesus has it right and is, in a sense, God, based upon the concept of the Trinity.
I actually believe that both Muhammad and Jesus, peace be upon them, "had it right", and it makes sense that if the two were sent by God, then they should have the same essential message. Both of them taught that One God should be worshipped, though in the case of Jesus, people deviated from his teachings and created their own religion. By following the way of Muhammad (peace be upon him), I am following the main message brought by all the previous Prophets aswell.

But you see, all these prophets who were inspired by God to spread His Word, they all believed in their own beliefs to be the true Word.
All the Prophets were sent by God to convey His message, not their own, or else we would be following a man-made law and not a divine one. They did of course believe themselves to be on the true path, and this was the same path for all of them: to worship one God only.

There are very slight differences in beliefs, like Islam's belief of the sin "shirk" for example. God's Word never changes. But Christianity is different. Jesus is God incarnate. He came down to not destroy the old laws, but to fulfill them, to make them easier to understand, to make His Word clearer.
In Islam, each of the Prophets had laws that were specific to their own peoples, and the law that is valid today is the law of the Prophet who was sent to us: all of mankind, Muhammad (peace be upon him). So while they all conveyed the same core message of monotheism, they had different laws to live by.

According to the Qur'an, Jesus' message is mentioned as follows:

3:50 "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
3:51 "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

So he didn't come to make God's Word "clearer", as we believe that God is not incapable of conveying His message clearly, but to confirm what had already come before him of God's Word, and make slight changes to other aspects of the previous law.

So basically, Christianity is correct. Jesus, being not only God but also a man, started a religion. It was the "man part" of Jesus, the "prophet part" (yes I'm making these terms up. so what? ;D) that made Christianity.
So you believe that Jesus made his own religion, which is why you say that religion is a "man's creation"? In Islam, it is unthinkable to associate God with His own creation: He has absolute control over everything, so to say that He became a part of what He created, while He is free from imperfection and His creation is not, is degrading His Majesty and Greatness and He is in fact far above such lowly descriptions. There is no need for God to appear on earth in the form of anyone, since He sends Prophets to convey His message.

Furthermore, much of the Bible cannot be considered to be Jesus' own words, let alone God's, so how do you know what his true teachings were?

Peace.
 
This is what is puzzling me about the Quran as well. Since I can only read the English translation, the meaning must be completely different than the Arabic meaning. So what's the point in an English speaker embracing Islam?
The Qur'an can only be in Arabic. The english translation of the meaning is only there for temporary use. It is advised that one should learn arabic as soon as possible. Although the english translation of the meaning still moves me to tears, i know it would be a million times more powerful in arabic. I'm currently learning arabic myself.
 
Greetings and peace Architect;

I believe that Muhammad was a liar
I did not notice this comment you made earlier and think it is sad that you should need to make such a comment which some people could take as inflammatory.

In another thread were Muslims were saying similar things about Christianity Muhammad graciously edited them out.

We are guests on this forum and as such I feel there is the need to honour our hosts beliefs and faith.

In the spirit of growing together in faith

Eric
 
Greetings and peace Mu'MiNaH;



i am talking personally here but I don’t think that Jesus’ life and death was for the benefit of God it was more for my benefit, I have a greater belief that my sins can be forgiven because Christ was prepared to do something.

In a way it might be like me saying to you. I will give you a million dollars next year.
Your reply would be ‘Yeah right you expect me to believe that.

But if you knew that I had already given your friend a million, you might just believe me.

The talk is easy, if God said your sins are forgiven, there is life after death and he didn’t do anything to show me then I probably would not believe.
Greetings Eric,

I do not think God needs to let his "son" die a horrible death in order to get a point across. Why make his beloved prophet suffer on earth if there is no need. Us Muslims believe that all prophets dies a peaceful death (Jesus not being dead yet of course) yet our faith is stronger than most (opinion). God showed us the path through his messenger and the Quran.

Each of us needs some kind of proof from God that seems believable, and the life of Jesus is my inspiration, in the same kind of way that the life of the Prophet pbuh. inspires you.


It seems in man’s nature that we commit evil; only God can put a stop to evil.

In the spirit of searching together

Eric
True God can stop evil, but HE has given us the will and conciance to do it ourselves. Therefore it is our responsibility to stop evil because it will benefit no one but us.
 
Why does God The All-Merciful need a blood sacrifice to forgive the sins of humanity, a blood sacrifice who was completely innocent. And how has this blood sacrifice benefitted anyone? The world is just as evil if not more. Just take a look around the world around you.

It only will benefit thoughs who accept this atoning sacrifice. Thats simply enough..
 
Greetings Eric,

I do not think God needs to let his "son" die a horrible death in order to get a point across. Why make his beloved prophet suffer on earth if there is no need. Us Muslims believe that all prophets dies a peaceful death (Jesus not being dead yet of course) yet our faith is stronger than most (opinion). God showed us the path through his messenger and the Quran.


True God can stop evil, but HE has given us the will and conciance to do it ourselves. Therefore it is our responsibility to stop evil because it will benefit no one but us.

It took one man for sin to enter into the world (Adam) and one man to conquer sin and the penalty of hell(Jesus). If this does not make sense to you, you are not open to the TRUE GOD. May God have mercy on you for you know not what you do.. I am praying for you, FRIEND!
 
In truth, Christians haven't been able to prove the salvation of people who went before Jesus, because the Bible does not record their affirmation of him being their Savior or acknowledging that he is going to die for their sins. Jesus was only sent to the Children of Israel during his time.

If Christians imply that he was sent to all mankind, then they must prove that he is mentioned as having been accepted as Savior by those who went before him. When the Bible speaks about David it speaks about David and the Lord. Same went for the other Prophets but it never mentions about them having accepted Jesus as their Savior, nor did it record anything about them knowing about Jesus or God sending His "only begotten Son" in the future to die for the sins of mankind. If Christians mention God needing blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of mankind, then Muslims are closer to this because we have the Qurban.

This is the major defect of the Trinity because it does not fit anywhere in the worship of one God.
 
In truth, Christians haven't been able to prove the salvation of people who went before Jesus

Salvation for the people in the Old Testement before Jesus.... came from Blood Scarifice if the animal was a pure unblemished animal..this was Gods way of salvation for his people...If you look thoughout the O.T. God always required blood for the sins of the people...
But this had to keep being repeated....where as now Christians don't need to...God gave us one final atonement for sin...in Jesus...

If Christians imply that he was sent to all mankind, then they must prove that he is mentioned as having been accepted as Savior by those who went before him

Like i've already said...the people of the OT gave blood. and where saved..


If Christians mention God needing blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of mankind, then Muslims are closer to this because we have the Qurban.

would you explain what the Qurban is please for me...
 
It took one man for sin to enter into the world (Adam) and one man to conquer sin and the penalty of hell(Jesus). If this does not make sense to you, you are not open to the TRUE GOD. May God have mercy on you for you know not what you do.. I am praying for you, FRIEND!
Sorry but that does not make sense at all. I have looked into Christianity enough to know that it is a religion based on misinterpretation and contradiction. Christianity is not a practical religion that allows you to truly worship your TRUE GOD while at the same time provide solutions for common problems on earth. God sent us the Torah and Moses (pbuh), but we rejected it He then sent us the Bible and Jesus (pbuh), but we changed it. Finally he sent us the Quran and Muhammad (pbuh), and finally the true religion that has not been changed has risen. Islam guides and teaches us how to worship our God the right way. Our life should revolve around God and our actions should follow our prophet’s example. We are taught both how to survive and how to worship. You should look into Islam more and learn more about our religion if you are to really see the truth.
I will pray for you too, I pray that you will be guided in the right path and finally realize how God should be worshiped.
 
God sent us the Torah and Moses (pbuh), but we rejected it He then sent us the Bible and Jesus (pbuh), but we changed it. Finally he sent us the Quran and Muhammad (pbuh), and finally the true religion that has not been changed has risen.

As-Salaamu-Alaikum!

Actually, Allah sent down 3 revelations prior to the Qu'ran: The Torah, The Psalms, and the Injeel (Gospel). The Torah and Psalms have been corrupted. The Gospel that was sent down is NOT the Bible. The Injeel has been lost. The Bible that you see today is a book that was compile by the Nicene Council, who also decided which books would be taken out and which ones would stay in. It is said that over 60 books were excluded. It should also be noted that the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John were not written by any of the 12 Apostles. The reference for the books sent down can be found in the Qu'ran - Surha 21 Ayat 105.
 
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Thanks brother. True I did leave out a book and probably shouldnt have called the Injeel the Bible. Just wanted to get a point across.
Peace.
 
Christianity is not a practical religion that allows you to truly worship your TRUE GOD while at the same time provide solutions for common problems on earth.

Christians do not need the laws to be written down for them, to understand how God wants us to live. The Jews had that from God and it didn't work...Our heavenly Father places the laws in our hearts to overcome this world.
 
...Our heavenly Father places the laws in our hearts to overcome this world.

That is why Christianity today is becoming more tolerant of things that are evil and abhorant to God, such as same sex relationships, illegitimate children, gambling, women preachers and so forth! Again, not all Christians, but Christianity in general.
 
But this had to keep being repeated....where as now Christians don't need to...God gave us one final atonement for sin...in Jesus...

Nowhere in the Bible did it mention, 'And the Lord saith, "I shall give ye one final atonement for sin... in Jesus..."

What you claim here was your own conjecture. You have no means to prove God ever meant the death of Jesus as your final atonement for sin.


Like i've already said...the people of the OT gave blood. and where saved..

If God required so much blood (or only blood) to atone for sins, then why bother telling pious people to worship Him at all? Why bother telling people to ask Him for forgiveness? Could the Crusades have happened because of this reason? Then I say Christianity is indeed, a cruel religion. Do you know that a fungus of Christianity, called Satanism in which ex-Christians worship Satan and placing him on equal with God, deals with so much blood sacrifice?

People who went before Jesus, they sacrificed animals as an act of obedience. God told them to sacrifice animals in His name. Performing is an act of obedience to God. Hence, it is worship to God to follow His command. Like what Abraham used to do, we Muslims follow his example in the Qurban, the sacrifice of animals in God's name as an act of worship to God. And His name is Allah.

would you explain what the Qurban is please for me...

You can learn better by researching on that subject. Other Muslim brothers & sisters can perhaps explain better than I do. Or look up the Quran and read more about what it says about Abraham (Nabi Ibrahim 'alayhi salaam).
 
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