U.S. massacres in Iraq probed

Knut Hamsun said:
Genius:
No Americans I know would ever gloss this over (My Lai). It is a mark of shame on their conscience and record, and a disgrace. I've never seen a person or book gloss this over, so I'm not sure why you say such a thing. I would make sure we look at our own country, the UK, first before we go pointing our fingers westward.
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Do you deny there was an attempt at covering up My Lai?
 
Genius said:
Do you deny there was an attempt at covering up My Lai?
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Do you deny you have only ever heard about it because the American press, the American media and the American publishing industry keep going on about it? How would you have heard about it otherwise? We have seen pictures of Saddam Hussein using chemical weapons because the Kurds smuggled out video footage. But the Egyptians used chemical weapons in Yemen but no one ever heard about that. Whatever bad things you have heard about America, as I quoted earlier this week, you have only heard about because America is free and open.

And by the way Lt Calley was convicted and jailed for My Lai.
 
It is very american. Murder people and cry "we bring them freedom". I hate this country!
 
Smok said:
It is very american. Murder people and cry "we bring them freedom". I hate this country!
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As opposed to the Soviet Union which never murdered people and cried "we bring them freedom"? Or France?

And let me again point out the US has an excellent record of actually bringing people freedom. Look at the expansion of democracy from 1941 to 2001.

I don't mind criticism of the Americans, but what sane standard are you judging them by?
 
Knut Hamsun said:
I know around 50 sunnis who would rather pummel you than blindly "stand by your side". There you go again, with your statements of absolutes.

As many or more, of them, than Americans or UK troops. That is probably the ultimate source of your frustration and misery: your ideal "muslim ummah" isn't united, that more muslims are killing muslims there than are coalition forces killing muslims. Set aside your blame for everyone else and look at you fractured, violent ummah, please.
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Proof of what they wish in us....

Tell me what do you know of sunnis and what do you know of shias?

I will tell you what you know...you know that if they stay together you will have to fear them...

i suggest you get used to the fear...

i for one would prefer to be as you said pummeled by my own brothers than american troops....

Your hate that you try and spread will never tear us apart...your weakness will not be spread to us...

FAITH is higher than any race...

Your aims here are quite obvious to anyone who reads your posts...

yours and your goverments aims...

SUNNI AND SHIA ARE UNITED!

Spread your lies and your hate it only burys you deeper....

you know nothing about muslims and you damn dont know nothing about sunnis and shias!
 
Knut Hamsun said:
ROU


I have yet to see any legal argument supporting this statement. The UN has not made such a legal case.
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Oh thats right the war werent illegal was it now...

WMD's was the reason for the war right? orwas it saddam or was it democracy sorry the story changes so much its hard to remember what the reason was now?
 
HeiGou said:
As opposed to the Soviet Union which never murdered people and cried "we bring them freedom"? Or France?

And let me again point out the US has an excellent record of actually bringing people freedom. Look at the expansion of democracy from 1941 to 2001.

I don't mind criticism of the Americans, but what sane standard are you judging them by?
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This place is getting stupid there is no point talking to these people they are SO much in denial that it makes me sick my gosh you guys live in you little made up fantasy that america is the hero of the world and what you spew and defend is the truth ok... and when ou die and meet god try spewing the same crap and see where it gets you...

await that day.....until then enjoy your evil blindness....
 
Hi Rou,
good to see another of your well thought out and poignant contributions to these discussions. These kind of responses help keep an intellectual discussion intellectual. Your insight is truly a gift of intellectual awareness to the rest of us.
Keep up the good work. :)
 
HeiGou said:
As opposed to the Soviet Union which never murdered people and cried "we bring them freedom"? Or France?

And let me again point out the US has an excellent record of actually bringing people freedom. Look at the expansion of democracy from 1941 to 2001.

I don't mind criticism of the Americans, but what sane standard are you judging them by?
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Point me where did I say "France and Soviet Union never murdered innocent people".
If one man do something bad it doesn't mean that you can do this too, because "he did it so I can do it".

US version of freedom is Vietnam with 1000000 people killed. We don't need USA to be free. In Poland in 80's we made our country free without american tanks and bombs. We made it alone with no real help from outside. Look at Ukraine. Look at Czech Republic, Latvia, Estonia... That are my standards. Bringing real freedom - without killing innocent people.
USA can only bring pain.
 
Hi Rou,
good to see another of your well thought out and poignant contributions to these discussions. These kind of responses help keep an intellectual discussion intellectual. Your insight is truly a gift of intellectual awareness to the rest of us.
Keep up the good work
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Ditto. Life must be wonderful whilst living in a vaccum, Mr. Hoover-Rou.
 
Rou
Oh thats right the war werent illegal was it now...

WMD's was the reason for the war right? orwas it saddam or was it democracy sorry the story changes so much its hard to remember what the reason was now?
Click to expand...

In our ultra litigious world, nations are held respondsible for the legality of their actions. The EU or the UN would like nothing better than to bring suit against the USA re: the Iraq war... but...drum roll please..........
they don't have a case! Because you disagree with the war doesn't make it illegal, does it?
 
Rou said:
Proof of what they wish in us....

Tell me what do you know of sunnis and what do you know of shias?

I will tell you what you know...you know that if they stay together you will have to fear them...

i suggest you get used to the fear...

i for one would prefer to be as you said pummeled by my own brothers than american troops....

Your hate that you try and spread will never tear us apart...your weakness will not be spread to us...

FAITH is higher than any race...

Your aims here are quite obvious to anyone who reads your posts...

yours and your goverments aims...

SUNNI AND SHIA ARE UNITED!

Spread your lies and your hate it only burys you deeper....

you know nothing about muslims and you damn dont know nothing about sunnis and shias!
Click to expand...
salam

yes i agree, the only shia(also sunni) pple being attacked in iraq by resistance are the ones collaborating with the enemy & kill their brothers and sisters witch makes them tratiors
dont take that as resistance being against ALL shais(infact some are part of it), thats not the case at all
and the senseless bombings againsts civilians on porpuse... i wonder y dosnt any sunni resistance claim responsiblty for those? they have claimed all their attacks from small to big and if they were truly against shias they wouldnt be afraid to point to their results

whoever is doing these have vested interests in weakening iraq and spliting it up
 
Knut Hamsun said:
Yes, Cheb, I understand. I agree in the case of abu gharib--it seems someone higher-up instructed the guards "to soften them up" (the prisoners, for interrogation). We will have to settle for the "peons" being punished. (I am not sure about the facts in that last statement, I am going on what the enlisted guards alledge, not what was proven).
But my intuition and small knowledge of America and its military ethics tells me that there is no way an officer would "command" his troops to massacre innocents. Or if he/she did, the "grunts" have legal authority to refuse such gross violations of human rights and common sense(this does defy common sense, after all; the usa are still, however unsuccesfully, trying to win allies amongst the natives).
Let us let the investigation take its course and the guilty will be punished.
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I think most people agree that in a tense situation American soldiers will shoot anything that moves. I don't think that should be the strategy for the armed forces of the so-called 'police force' of the planet, as they have assumed themselves. It seems they are there for other than they claim. First it was WMD, nope didn't exist. Second it was Saddams Hussein's connection with Al Qaeda, amusing but not true. And then it was for the people of Iraq, so why are they massacaring them? Surely, no one forced them to be there. Heck, no one even asked them to be there! They claim to want to liberate Iraq, but they say nothing to other tyrants and dictators. So what is the real reason they are in Iraq? I think that is clear; i'll give you a clue... it's three letters, begins with 'o' and ends in 'l'.
 
HeiGou said:
As opposed to the Soviet Union which never murdered people and cried "we bring them freedom"? Or France?

And let me again point out the US has an excellent record of actually bringing people freedom. Look at the expansion of democracy from 1941 to 2001.

I don't mind criticism of the Americans, but what sane standard are you judging them by?
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Come on Hei Gou, you know they are not intending to benefit anyone but themselves. When I say 'they' I mean American Govt.
 
~Mu'MiNaH~ said:
Come on Hei Gou, you know they are not intending to benefit anyone but themselves. When I say 'they' I mean American Govt.
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Actually I don't know that. They may have different opinions about what sort of things would benefit the Iraqis but it seems to me that they assume the Iraqis would benefit from American-style democracy, civil rights, freedom and capitalism and so are trying to impose those on Iraq.

However, even if it were true that they were only out to enrich themselves, you have to admit that in the process of helping themselves they have helped a lot of people enormously. Look at South Korea which in 1965 was as poor as Pakistan and both were the poorest countries in Asia. The US did help themselves and their idea of doing that was to create a rich, free and advanced South Korea. South Korea is now as rich as some of the poorer European countries and still growing. Where is Bangladesh?
 
There is a difference between SK and Iraq.
One word: Oil

whereas SK is at a strategic position.
 
itsme01 said:
There is a difference between SK and Iraq.
One word: Oil

whereas SK is at a strategic position.
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But, well, so what? If anything it enables the Iraqis to reject US advice. Because of oil the Americans tolerate a lot - look at Mexico and Venezuela - and the local governments can reject American advice and go their own way. I don't think that helps people much myself. Mexico and Venezuela are not good economic role models. Nor is Saudi Arabia either.

And I don't see that South Korea is in a strategic position. The sensible thing for the US to have done was let the Russians have it and stick with Japan.

In any event, the US has so much to offer the rest of the world. Look at the technology we use. Look at the enormous wealth their economy produces. It is a pity they are such idiots and don't have a clue what they are doing. But some countries have taken advantage of their wealth-creation and generosity with it. Some have not. It looks to me as if the Iraqis have chosen not to.
 
HeiGou said:
But, well, so what? If anything it enables the Iraqis to reject US advice. Because of oil the Americans tolerate a lot - look at Mexico and Venezuela - and the local governments can reject American advice and go their own way. I don't think that helps people much myself. Mexico and Venezuela are not good economic role models. Nor is Saudi Arabia either.

And I don't see that South Korea is in a strategic position. The sensible thing for the US to have done was let the Russians have it and stick with Japan.

In any event, the US has so much to offer the rest of the world. Look at the technology we use. Look at the enormous wealth their economy produces. It is a pity they are such idiots and don't have a clue what they are doing. But some countries have taken advantage of their wealth-creation and generosity with it. Some have not. It looks to me as if the Iraqis have chosen not to.
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Yeah... tell that to the inhabitants of Fallujah.
 
Vahid said:
salam

yes i agree, the only shia(also sunni) pple being attacked in iraq by resistance are the ones collaborating with the enemy & kill their brothers and sisters witch makes them tratiors
dont take that as resistance being against ALL shais(infact some are part of it), thats not the case at all
and the senseless bombings againsts civilians on porpuse... i wonder y dosnt any sunni resistance claim responsiblty for those? they have claimed all their attacks from small to big and if they were truly against shias they wouldnt be afraid to point to their results

whoever is doing these have vested interests in weakening iraq and spliting it up
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I never heard it explained in this manner. I must admit that it does make sense. I think this is why my boyfriend can't go back to Iraq...he's a traitor. lol :giggling: This will be a fun conversation to have.
 

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