Islam isnt compatible with western civilization?
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Alpha Dude
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Don't ruin a reasonable and fair video with a misleading thread title.
And this has nothing to do with comparative religion.
And this has nothing to do with comparative religion.
Bhabha
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I think it's that Western civilization isn't compatible with many things... considering they've pillaged, enslaved and consider ANYTHING outside of their Western political imaginary as barbaric.... look at Habermas, Russeau, John Locke...... heck, even Kant. They think everyone else is barbaric, inferior and 'uncivilized' and thus it is not Islam that is not compatible, it is the things attributed to Western civilization that is incompatible. You know when the Muslim empire was in Spain, Cordoba under Muslim rule was the most ADVANCED city in Western civilization...
Western civilization, by its mere language construction always puts things in dichotomies, in binaries, as 'inferior/superior', that's how it works and it manipulates people into thinking these kind of incompatibilities work. When the Muslims ruled parts of Spain, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all were able to function together. As soon as the fall of Granada in 1492 happened, the Catholic monarchs exiled the Jews, and then imposed restrictions on MUSLIMS WHO HAD CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY, because they felt the "moriscos" were inferior to the Spanish race....
-_- sometimes I bite these books... in anger and frustration, cause im "Westerner" by lineage and so deeply ashamed of my culture.
Western civilization, by its mere language construction always puts things in dichotomies, in binaries, as 'inferior/superior', that's how it works and it manipulates people into thinking these kind of incompatibilities work. When the Muslims ruled parts of Spain, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all were able to function together. As soon as the fall of Granada in 1492 happened, the Catholic monarchs exiled the Jews, and then imposed restrictions on MUSLIMS WHO HAD CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY, because they felt the "moriscos" were inferior to the Spanish race....
-_- sometimes I bite these books... in anger and frustration, cause im "Westerner" by lineage and so deeply ashamed of my culture.
Misbah0411
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Islam came to dominate and not be dominated.
Bhabha
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No....
[emoji28] by looking at it like dominate or be dominated you speak through the language of western civilization. Islam came to facilitate the cohabitation between peoples, not as a means to "dominate" but to tame problems and feuds.
Misbah0411
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I speak it through the language of the Quran and Sunnah. Allah Azza wa Jal says: "Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of Truth among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (9:29) "It is He who has sent His Messenger with the religion of truth that He may make it prevail over all other religions even the the disbelievers may hate it." (61:9) "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are severe against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.." (48:29) The Prophet Muhammad s.a.a.w. said, “Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate all that I saw.” (HADITH - Muslim #2889) It is best you conform your logic and desires with that of your Creator and be careful where you get your Islam from.
so the vid good?? ^o)
Alpha Dude
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You posted it, how can you not know? Didn't you watch it yourself? If not, why did you post it without having watched it first?
want ur view :shade:
Bhabha
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To English translations is not the same when in Arabic.
abumuslim82
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True
If by dominate you mean by raging war against everyone and forcing them to submit to the divine law, then I don't agree with you. The Prophet himself and the righteous Caliphs always stood up for the rights of the poor. Wallahi never they had in mind to dominate someone. And that time in order to give rights to weak, it was important that you come in power. Today we dont have any center nor we are truely following Islamic spirit rising voice for the weak, no matter muslim or non muslim. Thats the reason Islam spread so quickly because they were rising for the weak and people saw them as their saviour. So if by "dominate" you mean that the people start seeing Islam as their saviour again and submit to it with open mind and heart by their free will ( I don't know how it will happpen, only Allah knows) then yes I agree.
And if you look at the seerah of the Prophet, he first conqurred the hearts of the people! Even without Islam, they used to call him truthful and trustworthy. How many of people today find us truthful and trustworthy?
Sister I would like to know how did your perspective change on this subject. Before coming to Islam, you must have heard or read something about talking about oppression in history of Islam etc, books are filled with it. Did you have any of such idea before ?
Bhabha
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Well before coming to Islam. I had Muslim friends who weren't really practicing at all. I will be honest that I didn't like Islam before converting. I had to move overseas to a Muslim country to actually change my perspective. I didn't really read a lot of historical or political texts before because I was mostly focusing on medicine. I just heard things about Islam and the invasions of Muslims and Arabs and slavery. Etc. It was all really one sided, I was also constantly watching things on 911 and it didn't help that half of my family is Jewish and some live as Israeli citizens.
So I heard and saw one side. Then I went overseas and my heart changed when I heard the Athan. Now I devote myself to politics and Islam so that I can write from a converts perspective about Islam outside of the mainstream.
It's just that most books that write tend to conflate Muslims, Arabs, Berbers and any kind of North African, Oriental etc. As the same. So when someone does something bad, there is a generalization that all did something bad.
Muslims do that as well for framing "Western civilization" since not all westerners are the same and some have suffered great injustices by their own "Western" people.
Have you written something yet? I would like to read some of your work if possible.
And you are right about putting everyone isln same basket. Before coming to europe, even I to some extent had similar views about west. That everyone is bad morally etc, and I will have to watch out. But many of my perspectives changed
And since I started reading and listening more western scholars more, I got multiple perspectives about many things. I met some really nice people too in my class. Who even though are athiest mostly, but they are good people as far as this world is concerened. I pray that Allah help them see their goodness in hereafter as well. It is also interesting to know that moving to muslim country changed your mind. Lol. Because many muslim countries are following culture in the name of Islam. Can you tell me which country or city was it that you moved to ?
Also when I compare the practices in my area with what ny fiancee told me about her palestanian society, and how nicely husband treat wife, I really find it amazing that hoe much culture affects us.
Misbah0411
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I think you better look at the history of Islam and how the Sahaba understood Islam. Yes the Prophet s.a.a.w. focused on building iman and winnning the hearts of people, but once the Islamic State was established in Medina then the commands of Jihad were revealed and it was time to dominate the disbelievers into submission. Muslims have a willful misunderstanding of their history and some of it is due to trying to appease the kuffar and be politically correct instead of just embracing the truth of the matter and never fear the blame of the blamer. Another reason is they get their Islamic history lesson from the movie, The Message. Yes, there is no compulsion in religion. But there is compulsion to live under the Law of Allah. Shariah is suppose to reign supreme because only Shariah is pure justice for mankind. Secular law doesn't fulfill that. It is corrupt. It is riddled with debt. It is immoral. How did the Sahaba understand Islam? From the best teacher of manking, Muhammad s.a.a.w What was one of the last missions of the Prophet's s.a.a.w life? The Battle of Tabuk and engage the Romans since the Arabian Peninsula was dominated by Islam. What did the Caliphs after him do? Defeat and dominate the peoples of Persia, As-Sham and North Africa? What was Khalid bin Waleed's statement to the enemy before he would go into battle? He would say: "To proceed: Embrace Islam and thereby achieve safety, or take protection for yourself and your people and agree to pay the Jizyah tax. Otherwise, blame no one save yourself. For indeed, I have come to you with a people who love death just as you love life." Once people were dominated and they lived under Shariah Law, then they became convinced of the justice and beauty of Islam and embraced the True Faith. Al-Hamdulilah
Misbah0411
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Ok so you tell me the Arabic meanings of the ayats. Better yet how about we understand those ayats according to how the Sahaba, Tabieen and classical scholars of Tafsir understood them?
Brother I know my history well enough. Alhamdulillah. I am not saying something to please west or anyone. I told you before that surely Islam will dominate ultimately as told by the Prophet, but at current time if you feel that you can do it just by waging war agianst one another, then may God guide you towards good. Even the Prophet if you look deeply didn't said something atrocious to the romans. Let me copy paste you the letter of the Prophet to the Romans,
"In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
This letter is from Muhammad the slave of God and His Messenger to Heraclius, the ruler of the Byzantines.
Peace be upon him who follows the right path.
I am writing this invitation to call you to Islam. If you become a Muslim you will be safe - and God will double your reward, but if you reject this invitation of Islam you will bear the sin of having misguided your subjects. Thus do I urge you to heed the following:
“O People of the Scriptures! Come to a word common to you and us that we worship none but Allah and that we associate nothing in worship with Him, and that none of us shall take others as Lords beside Allah. Then if they turn away, say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.”
Muhammad, the Messenger of God"
The news had come that the romans in reply to that letter were preparing to attack Muslims, they could simply stay silent and not do anything! Even later it was not like they were providing justice to the people. The Muslims rose to give justice to the people.
What the Prophet brought was giving due right to the poor, speaking for the weak and perfecting one's character. That is always what the Prophet spoke for. And once the state was established Prophet waged war against those who were not giving rights to the weak ones. Islam spread through the marvelous character and the justice they were offering, even to the non-muslims. To the extent that once they even used to return the jizya they took, once they were not able to protect non-muslims from the outside attacks.
But never the less, a muslim is always supposed to act with wisdom. In current situation more than waging war, we need the makkan phase of the Prophet of buiding one's character and conduct. The Prophet S.A.W. took the best route to spread Islam. And we should do the same according to our time. So first thing is to build your own character and conduct. And spread the message of Islam both with words and the perfection of character.
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I can't watch the video at the moment but, pretty much this..