Patriotism vs tribalism debate

About cultural identity and what it means to be a Muslim in a western society, I think you should listen to Dr. Tariq Ramadan. BTW he is also Egyptian :) born in France I think. You may find some of the topics in series very interesting. Listen and share with us what you learn. We may benefit from it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5BJA7jFVRxuX2c6yPSdttFQoY8sqt3ZG

Assalaamu alaikum,

Tariq Ramadan was born and raised in Switzerland. His parents were from Egypt.
 
Assalaamu alaikum,

Tariq Ramadan was born and raised in Switzerland. His parents were from Egypt.
Oh yeah Switzerland. His parents were on exile from Egypt. I watched his interview on his personal life. He is really amazing Ma shaa Allah. In Cairo he finished Islamic course in 2 years, which usually takes more or less 4 years, and studied for 15 hours a day. And he studied Nietzsche when he was very young. :) lol just extra details [emoji14]
 
salaam

Loving the place you are born from is natural and normal - its like the loving your family members.

peace.
 
:sl:

I have learned Islam since long time ago and I never found any reason to say that loving the homeland is haram.

"Asabiyah" actually mean "tribal fanaticism" which refer to attitude "right or wrong, this is my tribe" that very strong among tribes in Rasulullah era, which they easy to attack each other just because little dispute that actually could be solved by dialog.
 
Being Pakistani, Palestinian, Arab or non-Arab, white or black or yellow won't help you on the Day of Judgement. Only those believe and do righteous good deeds will be the successful. Have patriotism for the Ummah of Muhammad s.a.a.w Everything else is a waste of time and could hinder unity.
 
I'm patriotic about my ethnicity. I'm British / Egyptian Muslim and wouldn't want to be anything else. Others are proud of being Saudi or Syrian or Palestinian etc so why can't I be?



My hubby's family is British/Egyptian, too! His grandma could speak 7 languages, including Arabic. Although unfortunately, when she got old, all she recalled of Arabic was bad words.
 
Being Pakistani, Palestinian, Arab or non-Arab, white or black or yellow won't help you on the Day of Judgement. Only those believe and do righteous good deeds will be the successful. Have patriotism for the Ummah of Muhammad s.a.a.w Everything else is a waste of time and could hinder unity.

Your money won't help you on judgement day.
Your car won't help you on judgement day.
Your home won't help you on judgement day.
Your education won't help you on judgement day.

Does this mean it's pointless to pursue these things because they're all a waste of time? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't know about you but I enjoy life... I enjoy so many things about life and so many of the things I love are located in the country I live therefore of course I am going to love my country as a consequence.

I always get the feeling that it's the miserable muslims in life that say "everything is pointless, don't pursue anything because it's worthless". Allah put me on this beautiful planet and I'm sure going to enjoy it.

1. Enjoy life, follow the deen and go to Jannah.
2. Feel sorry for yourself, be miserable, pursue nothing, follow the deen and go to Jannah.

Choice is yours.
 
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Assalmu alaykum,

To love one's country or to identify with it isn't a bad thing at all. Of course, our primary identity is that of Muslims, alhamdulillah, and this identity comes before anything else, whether it be ethnicity or nationality or occupation or even as a relative or friend...

And so long as you recognise the fact that the beauty of Islam is that it has united us all to be one Ummah, with transcends all divisions of nationality or race or blood, and belonging to a specific country to race doesn't make you superior to anyone else, then to say 'I love my country, or proud to be from it,' wouldn't be against Islam. We are all equal before Allah swt, His slaves and worshippers, and no one is superior or inferior to the other, no skin colour or culture is better or worse than another. It reminds me of this verse from the Qur'an, which says it all alhamdulillah.

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
49:13

So obviously, we are all equal in status, but as long as we don't claim superiority it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge where we are from. I'm proud to be British, I am proud to be of Afghani/Pakistani heritage, it is a part of who I am, and it doesn't effect the way I behave with my friends who are Kurdish or Arab or Malaysian, because we are all Muslims first and foremost alhamdulillah, and the way Islam has united believers, from all cultures and nationalities, under the banner of Tawhid is beautiful.

I could write a lot on this lol, but it'll become an essay and I have revision to do, ;)
 
And about the tribalism thing, obviously we shouldn't take it so far as many of the tribes did in the time of the Prophet (pbuh), and say if it caused us to look down on others who were not related to us by blood, or be in favour of our relatives even if they were in the wrong, then that would be unjust...

However, to feel that special attachment to your relatives is very natural and should be that way. I love my sister and mother and father much more than I love anyone else, after Allah swt and His Prophet (pbuh) it is them I would give priority to - would that be tribalism? I don't think so.
 
Your money won't help you on judgement day.
Your car won't help you on judgement day.
Your home won't help you on judgement day.
Your education won't help you on judgement day.

Does this mean it's pointless to pursue these things because they're all a waste of time? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't know about you but I enjoy life... I enjoy so many things about life and so many of the things I love are located in the country I live therefore of course I am going to love my country as a consequence.

I always get the feeling that it's the miserable muslims in life that say "everything is pointless, don't pursue anything because it's worthless". Allah put me on this beautiful planet and I'm sure going to enjoy it.

1. Enjoy life, follow the deen and go to Jannah.
2. Feel sorry for yourself, be miserable, pursue nothing, follow the deen and go to Jannah.

Choice is yours.

Sis, nothing wrong in being amazed at the artistic creation of Allah SWT. The mountains, the culture (as long as it doens't go against Islam) etc. we should Thank Allah SWT for all this. We should try to be grateful for everything Allah SWT gave us.

It is ok to enjoy life - but know how to do it. If you forget Allah SWT and the deen, then that is being ungrateful. So, yes, do enjoy life - but keep it halal - and do not let it take the time of your prayers and ibadah. And remember, excessive enjoyment isn't good.

Give thanks to Allah SWT for every blessing Allah SWT has given you. for if you were to count the blessings of Allah SWT you would never be able to. Be mindful of Allah SWT. Be grateful. Give whatever you can in charity, give some food to a poor.. etc.

When you look at the sky, sometimes one is compelled to just say SubhanAllah, this is beautiful.

BUT remember the enjoyment of this world is but very little compared to the hereafter - so don't lose sight. The Akhira is better for us, if we but knew.

Every soul will taste death, and you will only be given your [full] compensation on the Day of Resurrection. So he who is drawn away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has attained [his desire]. And what is the life of this world except the enjoyment of delusion. 3:185

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said any wrong. Ameen.

Allahu alam.
 
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Patriotism vs Tribalism... This is basic ingroup and outgroup dynamics.

Ingroup cohesion is a good thing. There is nothing wrong about feeling connected to your fellow citizens and being proud of the community that you have built together. The problem inherent in tribalism comes when Ingroup cohesion turns to negativity at the outgroup. That can mean everything from nationalism (as opposed to patriotism) to racism to misogyny to religious persecution to homophobia, etc.
 
Look at Makah. Every year Muslims from various countries come there. They love their homelands, but they are willing to perform salah together with Muslims from different nationalities.

And look at other places. Then you can see Muslims who refuse to perform salah with other Muslims just because fiqh difference.

Conclusion: Not nationalism that divide ummah, but group fanaticism.
 

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