Is Islam based on Biblical teachings?

[dwa2day]

Hi Search
Since you have opened the door to questions I have one that has come to mind seems to be a common thread to many arguments in number of post on this site. Hopefully you would be able to clarify the actual Islamic view.
It is clear that Islam one the one hand is based on the Biblical teachings of the Bibles Prophets, yet at the same time reject the very same Prophets text as corrupt. This is a double standard and contradictory in itself. This in turn ask the question, why cannot Islam simple stand on its own teachings and sacred text such as other faith based religions do?

Regards
Doug

 

[greenhill]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

Hi Search
Since you have opened the door to questions I have one that has come to mind seems to be a common thread to many arguments in number of post on this site. Hopefully you would be able to clarify the actual Islamic view.
It is clear that Islam one the one hand is based on the Biblical teachings of the Bibles Prophets, yet at the same time reject the very same Prophets text as corrupt. This is a double standard and contradictory in itself. This in turn ask the question, why cannot Islam simple stand on its own teachings and sacred text such as other faith based religions do?

Regards
Doug

Let me try.

For me it is a straight forward matter. Because it is a sensitive matter I will treat it with respect mostly bevause it is about our prophets too!.

It all started with the creation of Adam, pbuh resulting in Satan swearing to lead man astray.

So with every prophet sent, Satan set about distorting the messages. Why do you think most prophets had a tough time delivering the Word of Allah? ..(or Eloh in Hebrew?)

Why does the message need to be repeated again and again countless generations if not for Satan's handiwork of leading man astray? They even requested miracles from various prophets to prove as though the words were not true enough. Why were all the successive prophets required after Musa pbuh all the way to Isa pbuh if not for Satan still leading man astray from the Message of Allah.

Up to then, the scriptures were kept by the clerics who were generally taught to read and write. They decided what the general public should know.

The final message, the MOST important of them all as it encapsulated all the previous messages for ALL the followers of the previous Books to now study this, protected from corruption as it is learnt by heart by everyone who can. Not limited to the clerics. So the laws as laid down in the Quran and the words used will never be changed. It was further safeguarded by getting it written and standardised.

Only with the advent of modern computers that other mathematical and numeric 'miracles' are discovered in the Quran. That removal or addition of any single word would not 'add up'..

So the Quran's purpose is that. The prophets of past that delivered their messages did their job as best as they could and were very noble people. Best of humanity. However, the same can't be said of the clerics class of people, who 'administer' the Words of Allah after the prophets have gone, that has been developing since Satan made that vow.

There are many muslims, born muslims mostly that have not willingly of own accord, picked up a Quran to read and understand. The unchanged word of God. How well has Satan kept his words?

Unfortunately, the Psalms, Torah and Bible got seriously 'adjusted'. Hence the difference between us in otherwise as you said, similar in base. The truth is in the that difference.


eace:

 

[dwa2day]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

Let me try.

For me it is a straight forward matter. Because it is a sensitive matter I will treat it with respect mostly bevause it is about our prophets too!.

It all started with the creation of Adam, pbuh resulting in Satan swearing to lead man astray.

So with every prophet sent, Satan set about distorting the messages. Why do you think most prophets had a tough time delivering the Word of Allah? ..(or Eloh in Hebrew?)

Why does the message need to be repeated again and again countless generations if not for Satan's handiwork of leading man astray? They even requested miracles from various prophets to prove as though the words were not true enough. Why were all the successive prophets required after Musa pbuh all the way to Isa pbuh if not for Satan still leading man astray from the Message of Allah.

Up to then, the scriptures were kept by the clerics who were generally taught to read and write. They decided what the general public should know.

The final message, the MOST important of them all as it encapsulated all the previous messages for ALL the followers of the previous Books to now study this, protected from corruption as it is learnt by heart by everyone who can. Not limited to the clerics. So the laws as laid down in the Quran and the words used will never be changed. It was further safeguarded by getting it written and standardised.

Only with the advent of modern computers that other mathematical and numeric 'miracles' are discovered in the Quran. That removal or addition of any single word would not 'add up'..

So the Quran's purpose is that. The prophets of past that delivered their messages did their job as best as they could and were very noble people. Best of humanity. However, the same can't be said of the clerics class of people, who 'administer' the Words of Allah after the prophets have gone, that has been developing since Satan made that vow.

There are many muslims, born muslims mostly that have not willingly of own accord, picked up a Quran to read and understand. The unchanged word of God. How well has Satan kept his words?

Unfortunately, the Psalms, Torah and Bible got seriously 'adjusted'. Hence the difference between us in otherwise as you said, similar in base. The truth is in the that difference.


eace:

Hi Greenhill
Thank you for your explanation, however there are part I do not understand for example:-
“There are many muslims, born muslims mostly that have not willingly of own accord, picked up a Quran to read and understand.” I understand this as a Muslim you are forced to read accept the Quran. However this has nothing to do with my question so it is important just sad to know that as a Muslim you have no free choice what to believe.

In a nut shell to my question “Are biblical text corrupt” you are saying yes they are because of Satan’s influence over human when writing do these text. Yet at the same the Quran is not corrupt due to the fact that the Quran was originally committed to memory and thus free from Satan’s influence.
Your statement “Why do you think most prophets had a tough time delivering the Word of Allah? ..(or Eloh in Hebrew?)” This is an Islamic view and by no means the acceptrd view of Jews or Christians. In fact it alludes to my other question you did not answer and in light of the above explanation I ask again, if the biblical text are corrupt why is the Islamic faith fumbling around trying to use Biblical text to justify their faith. Can Islam not stand on its own feet and Prophetic text such as the Quran?

Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

I feel your heart cry in tune with so many, and it is this special relationship you as an individual have with God that sets you free in His unfailing love.

 

[Zafran]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

Hi Search
Since you have opened the door to questions I have one that has come to mind seems to be a common thread to many arguments in number of post on this site. Hopefully you would be able to clarify the actual Islamic view.
It is clear that Islam one the one hand is based on the Biblical teachings of the Bibles Prophets, yet at the same time reject the very same Prophets text as corrupt. This is a double standard and contradictory in itself. This in turn ask the question, why cannot Islam simple stand on its own teachings and sacred text such as other faith based religions do?

Regards
Doug

I'm sure you have the same question of Christianity - It accepts and relies on the OT and yet rejects the Jewish reading of it or just overrides it with NT - which the Jews of course reject. For example Jesus pbuh being the messiah yet the Jews dont agree - the laws shouldn't be kept and yet the Jews disagree etc etc.

 

[dwa2day]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

I'm sure you have the same question of Christianity - It accepts and relies on the OT and yet rejects the Jewish reading of it or just overrides it with NT - which the Jews of course reject. For example Jesus pbuh being the messiah yet the Jews dont agree - the laws shouldn't be kept and yet the Jews disagree etc etc.

Hi Zafran
Thank you for your reply and insight.
I am restricted by the posting rules of this forum to give you a detailed explanation to your comments. However one fundamental problem I may note is your attempt to combined two different faiths as one when in fact they each stand alone and separate in their belief. If we are to accept the fussing together of different faiths as you have suggested to justify the Islamic faith, then by the same rules we must the accept Islam and Christianity agree the Jesus Christ is God.
I write this with the deepest respect for our both our faith and only to illustrate the erroneous argument you have made on the basis you would not accept the same critical standards to be used in evaluation Islam. Thus by virtue of fairness and truth one cannot be used it in any evaluation of any faith.

Regards
Doug

 

[greenhill]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

[MENTION=39587]dwa2day[/MENTION].. Sorry got a bit carried away in my explanation...

In all honesty, the islamic faith uses only the Quran and the hadeeth as guide.

The fumbling is nothing to do with the need to justify islam.. it happens when questions are raised as what you put across due to the similarities between the Books claiming that the prophet 'stole' ideas from the previous Books and made his own with the Quran. Of course that is not true as much as imying that Jesus stole from the Torah and made his own with the Bible. They are all Allah's prophets hence the similarities in the messages.

It is also our duty as muslims to invite people to reflect and God willing accept the message. But in most cases, the Books and messages for the Jews ended with tbe Torah and for the Christians, the Bible.

We muslims believe that the message of the previous Books were true during the time of that prophet but got altered along the way after their passing. Thus, it is not something to be gained by us muslims, but instead, it adds to our responsibilties to call the people of the Books to reflect on the final message.


eace:

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings Doug and welcome to the forum,

I've moved your discussion into a new thread to avoid derailing the other one.

The following response was posted by another member of the forum in a different thread:


Originally posted by - Qatada -

Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
​

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).​

[Qur'an 3: 2-3]​

The Qur'an is the Criterion (Furqan) to verify what was the real message given to Jesus, son of Mary - the Messiah (peace be upon them.)


We believe that Jesus is an honorable Messenger of God, and we believe that he is the Messiah - who will slay the anti christ. He is the servant and Prophet of God, because God is not in need of children. If one was to say that God can have children if He wills, we believe that God only does what befits His Majesty. If God willed, He could pick anyone from among the creation to be His child, but He is way above what they associate with Him.


Don't you see how all the previous prophets called to the worship of God Alone without associating partners with Him? Don't you see the message of Noah, Abraham, Moses? Didn't they call their people to worship God Alone? They never claimed that they were divine, nor did Jesus son of Mary. He ate food, and he drank. He even went to the bathroom like we do. Do you really believe that God would do that?

Remember that I said that God only does what befits His Majesty? Well that fits in with that concept - so God doesn't go to the bathroom. Nor is He in need of any children, rather we are all His servants, and we are obedient to Him. So we worship God Alone, and no-one else. The One who gave us life, the One who provides for us, the One who will cause us to die, and He will bring us back to life and we will be judged on all that we did in this world.


Know that no soul bears the burden of another, and man will only get what he/she strived for. You are responsible for the good and bad you do, and so am i. No-one else is. You have to believe in what was revealed to all the Prophets and not take a pick and mix. Rather we take the whole package. And Muhammad (peace be upon him) recieved the same message as the Prophets of the earlier times - submit to God, your Creator and Provider by obeying His Messenger. If you do, you will be successful, but if you turn away - know that your Creator is Self-Sufficient, and you will be brought to account on the day when every soul will be questioned on what it did in this world.

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.

If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Allah will say, "This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness." For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment.

To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent.


[Qur'an The Tablecloth [Al Ma'ida] 5: 116-120]
​

Please also see the following threads and links for previous discussions relating to your questions:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/39325-muslims-bible-dont-believe.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/39325-muslims-bible-dont-believe.html#post691179
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_endorse_the_bible__
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/12755-authority-scriptures.html

 

[M.I.A.]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

Hi Zafran
Thank you for your reply and insight.
I am restricted by the posting rules of this forum to give you a detailed explanation to your comments. However one fundamental problem I may note is your attempt to combined two different faiths as one when in fact they each stand alone and separate in their belief. If we are to accept the fussing together of different faiths as you have suggested to justify the Islamic faith, then by the same rules we must the accept Islam and Christianity agree the Jesus Christ is God.
I write this with the deepest respect for our both our faith and only to illustrate the erroneous argument you have made on the basis you would not accept the same critical standards to be used in evaluation Islam. Thus by virtue of fairness and truth one cannot be used it in any evaluation of any faith.

Regards
Doug

combine different faiths?

your status says judeo-Christian!!

literally zafran gave you a 100% answer in its simplist form.. end of thread for the thinking man.

have a nice day doug.

your alpha male post intrigued me though.

 

[dwa2day]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

combine different faiths?

your status says judeo-Christian!!

literally zafran gave you a 100% answer in its simplist form.. end of thread for the thinking man.

have a nice day doug.

your alpha male post intrigued me though.

It would have be nice to have an answer, rather than the my way or the high way response.

 

[M.I.A.]

agreed, although taking advantage of the answer is not what I do.

...too often the beta

 

[Serinity]

The Quran is not based off of The Bible. Rather it is because The Bible may still contain remnants of the words of Allah. To make the assumption you made. you'd have to do soo, with Jesus too. Noah too. ETc.

But what is in the Bible - most of it. At least for the beliefs - and the depictions of the Prophets :as: are fabrications. we do not take from the Bible, as it is corrupt - and we do not need to - as Allah sent down clear guidance - The Qur'aan. The Book that came to confirm the previous ones.

If we were able to find the Original Injeel in its unaltered/unchanged form, the message would be the same of that of the Qur'aan.


And Allah :swt: knows best.

 

[greenhill]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

It would have be nice to have an answer, rather than the my way or the high way response.

It is really not "my way or the highway", seriously. Totally wrong concept.

It is not my rule. It is not anyone who is/was a muslim made rule. The difference is, we embrace it and submit to it. And the only God we believe in has a name. Allah is His name. He is also known by His 99 other names that describes Him for us, as we cannot see Him. It's the same belief everywhere, world over.

So, in learning to submit, as the Best of Planners Is At Work, we can understand and feel life in a very serene way. Hence why so many muslims would describe a 'way' that would appear to those who fail to understand the concept of submission to the All Mighty as being my way or highway.

It really isn't. Women in hijab a prime example. Sure some may be 'coerced' into it as much as many undesireable acts like smoking, bullying etc a result of social pressures..

But the belief is what makes it. It makes total sense. There is no other way. Whichever way we look at it.


eace:

 

[Scimitar]

Are NT teachings based on the OT?

Scimi

 

[dwa2day]

Re: What Conversations Are We Not Having as Muslims?

It is really not "my way or the highway", seriously. Totally wrong concept.

It is not my rule. It is not anyone who is/was a muslim made rule. The difference is, we embrace it and submit to it. And the only God we believe in has a name. Allah is His name. He is also known by His 99 other names that describes Him for us, as we cannot see Him. It's the same belief everywhere, world over.

So, in learning to submit, as the Best of Planners Is At Work, we can understand and feel life in a very serene way. Hence why so many muslims would describe a 'way' that would appear to those who fail to understand the concept of submission to the All Mighty as being my way or highway.

It really isn't. Women in hijab a prime example. Sure some may be 'coerced' into it as much as many undesireable acts like smoking, bullying etc a result of social pressures..

But the belief is what makes it. It makes total sense. There is no other way. Whichever way we look at it.


eace:

Hi Greenhill
Thank you for your input. I reply here to both your post to my question.
I confirm your explanation to why the 66 books of the Bible are corrupt is on the death of the respective authors Satan corrupted the writing of the original text. The Quran on the other hand is not corrupt because it was originally committed to memory. On submission to Allah and the writing of the Quran one will understand the truth.
It makes no sense, Satan has for over 1500 managed to corrupt Allah written word and boom suddenly he withdrawals for no apparent reason other than one man’s memory and we now have the truth in the Quran.
You go further to say Islam stands alone with the Quran and the Hadith as its guide. I understand the Hadith is in essence reports describing the words, actions, or habits of the Islamic prophet Mohamed. In addition they are evaluated by Muslim clerics as authentic, good or weak.
This by Muslim standards is saying the Quran in itself is also corrupt or rather been corrupted by Saran after Mohamed’s death.
Do you seem my problem, the explanations given do not build a puzzle of confidence.

Regards
Doug

After further discussion and comments it is clear my understanding of this has been incorrect and thus apologies to any person I may of offended by my this statement.
I trust I will continue to learn through further discussion in this forum.

 

[dwa2day]

Are NT teachings based on the OT?

Scimi

Hi Scimi
I would like to give you my answer but it would be expressing my faith view which is against the posting rules of this site.

Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

Hi Muhammad
I would like to thank you for the help with reposting my question in the correct manner. Thank you also for the links I will be thsure to use them.

Blessing and regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

The Quran is not based off of The Bible. Rather it is because The Bible may still contain remnants of the words of Allah. To make the assumption you made. you'd have to do soo, with Jesus too. Noah too. ETc.

But what is in the Bible - most of it. At least for the beliefs - and the depictions of the Prophets :as: are fabrications. we do not take from the Bible, as it is corrupt - and we do not need to - as Allah sent down clear guidance - The Qur'aan. The Book that came to confirm the previous ones.

If we were able to find the Original Injeel in its unaltered/unchanged form, the message would be the same of that of the Qur'aan.


And Allah :swt: knows best.

Thank you for that insight and thus one must deduce that any reference to the Prophet Muhammad in the in the Bible is false as 1) the text is corrupt and the depictions of the Prophets are fabrications. 2) The Quran is not based on the Bible.
Regards
Doug

 

[M.I.A.]

10/10

dammit!

....I shouldn't lol

this is why we can't have nice things.

:|


maybe we should all go blow up somewhere to set the world aright..

trolled to death.

:|


or just be super sarcastic through life..

because we nice like that.

 

[Serinity]

Thank you for that insight and thus one must deduce that any reference to the Prophet Muhammad in the in the Bible is false as 1) the text is corrupt and the depictions of the Prophets are fabrications. 2) The Quran is not based on the Bible.
Regards
Doug

False, That is not true. And that is not what I meant. I didn't say the Bible is 100% corrupt. Can you elaborate on "based on the Bible"?

Cause the Quran is 100% word of Allah, independent. The Injeel - previous revelation- in its pure form hold the same message as that of the Quran.

Aren't you going to say "The Bible is based on the Torah"? All Prophets :as: came with the same exact message. The Qur'aan confirms the previous revelations, and what is in it.

Don't put words in my mouth. A scholar of Islam can elaborate.