Do brothers tell sisters to cover up?

[*charisma*]

It doesn't matter if the stare is lustful or not. I don't personally appreciate a strange man approaching me for anything really, my clothing is no exception. If I get stopped for directions or something by a man (muslim or not!) I get very uncomfortable and do my best to end the conversation asap. I know for sure I'm not alone on this. It isn't appropriate. Even when I wasn't Muslim, in my culture, men stick with men and women stick with women, generally.

Maybe perspectives are different as we are all raised differently, but I don't see why it is perplexing that women are not welcoming men's advice. More often than not, men have female relatives around who can convey the message. That's more acceptable and I'm sure better welcomed. As I stated before, those who are interested in dawa generally look for it. I've sat in plenty of male led dawa and lectures who address women's issues, I'm perfectly okay with that.

So, what I can see from this discussion is that nothing should be blanketed. Men are not all out to lust over women, and women who don't want advice from men are not venomous and out to seduce men. lol. There's common courtesy and there's methods of delivering information if it is warranted. The note thing that brother Aaj mentioned is a good way, imo.

Also, it needs to be considered that when women purposely wear tight fitting clothes, they are AWARE of what they are doing. They have either convinced themselves it is permissible, or they don't care. Does this warrant a stranger's advice?. Is it the clothing that needs to be addressed or their relationship with Allah? I think the latter, as the dress is always affected by the person's imaan.

I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah. As someone who wears hijaab properly for the intention of pleasing Allah, if my attire is not proper (eg. my hair is sticking out in the back, or my chest is bare) and a brother spots it, I would much rather prefer that he lets me know in that instant than for me to walk around and have a hundred people see me this way. I might be embarrassed for a bit that it was a brother who told me, but why should that feeling overpower what is fardh?

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.

Now when it comes to advising a sister to wear hijaab properly, and I'm speaking about someone who is wearing tight clothing or her arms are barren, we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing. I've come across girls who think adorning the eyes with eyeliner is ok because kohl is sunnah. Some think wearing tight clothing is ok as long as the shirt is long enough to cover her front and behind. Some girls think its ok to cover your entire face with make up because "only allah can judge me" or because they are new and all the hijaabis these days on youtube and social media have tutorials on it so it's seen as the "norm." While mashallah we have a lot of information, we have just as much misinformation. You make the assumption that dawah is sought after so no one should put in the effort to help or give advice. That's ill advice. It's not easy to sincerely advise strangers, so kudos to those who have that courage and love for their brethren.

 

[sister herb]

^ So you mean that it´s a lesser bad if a brother correts some sister than let her walk around without proper dressing. If that would happens, I might just find a ladies room and a mirror and check my dressing (hijab or some other cloth). But I wouldn´t encourage that brother to continue discussion of course.

(And no, I wouldn´t use my handbag. :embarrass )

 

[*charisma*]

^ So you mean that it´s a lesser bad if a brother correts some sister than let her walk around without proper dressing. If that would happens, I might just find a ladies room and a mirror and check my dressing (hijab or some other cloth). But I wouldn´t encourage that brother to continue discussion of course.

(And no, I wouldn´t use my handbag. :embarrass )

Yes, I would personally prefer that. And I agree. I don't think a full course discussion should happen in that type of incident, but rather that he kindly brings it to my attention and continues on his way, which is what I think most would do anyways.

Sometimes we just don't notice these things until we get home and we think "omg have I been walking like this ALL day?" ;D

One time my chest was exposed a bit and I had absolutely no idea. I was actually waiting for a ride, so I was outside by myself. A brother walked past me and without even looking at me said something that caught my attention. I don't remember what he said exactly, but I looked down and saw that my skin was showing so I covered myself. I felt very grateful that he said something because people were walking past me left and right and no one had said anything. I feel really proud that there are muslim brothers (and sisters) who watch out for sisters like that.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah.

So I guess it is personal then? You are okay with men approaching you, I'm not and many women are not. It doesn't make us wrong and there's many ways to care for brothers and sister and try to please Allah.

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.

I've never said all men do it out of ill intentions As you said, most men don't do it and that's because naturally men are not inclined to try and correct women that are not theirs to correct . I hope that makes sense. I don't find it courageous if a man approached me to correct my attire, I find it on the offensive side, even if the brother is a nice guy.

we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing.

Most of them do though. Sure, there are always exceptions, but that isn't the norm. When it is a new muslim woman, then she probably doesn't know and in most of those cases they are looking for guidance. When its a young girl, she may be under the wrong impression, correct, but they have mothers... I remember during ramadan once, there was a girl who would unbutton her abaya, take off her hijab and put on red hot lipstick while her parents were in tarawee prayer :heated: and she's prance around where the boys were hanging out.

I personally went through a period of wearing fitted mini dresses with a long black flowy skirt and a long black cardigan and headscarf. I knew it wasn't correct, but I justified it and wore it anyway. Any brother who has courted a woman for marriage and has addressed hijab can tell you that they get defensive right away.

So, I respectfully disagree with assuming women don't know. It's quite easy to tell really, if you hang around the masjid enough and if you are familiar with the community

 

[Scimitar]

I am curious about how many of brothers whose has took part to this discussion (or read this only) have adviced unknown sisters about their dressing? If yes, how you have done it or if not, what has been the reasons?

:hmm:

speaking from experience, it's better to just walk on! Although there was this one time the sister told me "I'm not actually a Muslim?" and yeah, that was the safest version of events hew

Scimi

 

[Simple_Person]

I respectfully disagree. I understand that you have a general discomfort with men, that's ok. That's you. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who seeks pleasing Allah. As someone who wears hijaab properly for the intention of pleasing Allah, if my attire is not proper (eg. my hair is sticking out in the back, or my chest is bare) and a brother spots it, I would much rather prefer that he lets me know in that instant than for me to walk around and have a hundred people see me this way. I might be embarrassed for a bit that it was a brother who told me, but why should that feeling overpower what is fardh?

As you can see from the replies, most brothers don't even approach sisters. They're saying "it's not my place to do so" or "I don't want to cause her discomfort" so I'm guessing the small percentage of brothers that do have the courage to say something do NOT do it out of ill intentions, nor can I see how it would be that way.

Now when it comes to advising a sister to wear hijaab properly, and I'm speaking about someone who is wearing tight clothing or her arms are barren, we also should not always assume these girls know what they are doing. I've come across girls who think adorning the eyes with eyeliner is ok because kohl is sunnah. Some think wearing tight clothing is ok as long as the shirt is long enough to cover her front and behind. Some girls think its ok to cover your entire face with make up because "only allah can judge me" or because they are new and all the hijaabis these days on youtube and social media have tutorials on it so it's seen as the "norm." While mashallah we have a lot of information, we have just as much misinformation. You make the assumption that dawah is sought after so no one should put in the effort to help or give advice. That's ill advice. It's not easy to sincerely advise strangers, so kudos to those who have that courage and love for their brethren.

When I read this post of yours I immediately remembered the event with Musa (as) and watering of those animals. He looked at those women holding their animals ..so he did not "lower his gaze" but this with a certain intention of seeing something that we can say was injustice.

So I agree on this that I was wrong jazakAllah khairan for this comment of yours and correcting me. Sub'han'Allah I have found even more wisdom in this beyond notifying the sister of something about her clothes that were not done intentionally.

Although about sisters who wear tight clothes is very hard. It isn't a talk of just notifying it. It needs explanation why so she also understands it. If you just in a subtle manner say to her "sister please wear different clothes" or "sister please cover yourself". Such a sister might feel insulted rather than be thankful. One needs to explain a bit more to show her why she has to stop wearing such clothes. Notifying and "changing the mind" are rather big things.

 

['abd al-hakeem]

Assalamu Alaikum
So you see a muslimah not properly covered/wearing hijaab improperly/etc...do you say anything to her?

A better question would be, is it your place to tell her anything as a non mahram?
I've never even seen a sheikh or imam at the masjid correct a sister who walks in with inappropriate attire.
I would not welcome a strange man telling me how to dress, he shouldn't even be looking at me, let alone talking to me, but if it is a mahram male, I will consider and in most cases take action .

as-salaamu aleykum brothers and sisters,

I was taught that unless a woman approachs/greets, it's better manners to wait or respond in kind, or do nothing. e.g. speak when spoken to, greet when greeted or nothing at all. I agree with sister Umm♥Layth.

Four males are responsible for the females in the family, at this point in time I can't recall the 4th but they include Father, brother and husband. If the women in the family are dressed irresponsibly, is it up to any other male in intercede, other than family? Maybe the power of dua is what's best. Make dua for the sister and her family for guidance.

Have we considered the reason for asking for an opinion when we already have the Sunnah and Qur'an to rely on?

"To you be your way..."

Allahu alem.

 

[Simple_Person]

as-salaamu aleykum brothers and sisters,

I was taught that unless a woman approachs/greets, it's better manners to wait or respond in kind, or do nothing. e.g. speak when spoken to, greet when greeted or nothing at all. I agree with sister Umm♥Layth.

Four males are responsible for the females in the family, at this point in time I can't recall the 4th but they include Father, brother and husband. If the women in the family are dressed irresponsibly, is it up to any other male in intercede, other than family? Maybe the power of dua is what's best. Make dua for the sister and her family for guidance.

Have we considered the reason for asking for an opinion when we already have the Sunnah and Qur'an to rely on?

"To you be your way..."

Allahu alem.

Some are divorced no husband..no sons, father died no brothers. I am not saying we should always think like this but mistakes happen and if possible with just hint it towards the sister. A couple of years ago I spoke to a sister online (with the intention of da'wah only) her husband considered himself a Muslim but she herself left Islam because many of the questions of her the imams and such did not answer rather reaction of..this comes from sheytan and do not think like that.

Anyways she wore tight clothes and or said sometimes things she even did it on purpose so the jealousy in her husband would kick in. However nothing. I advised her to dress more loose clothing when she wanted to go to a friends party. She appreciated greatly for me saying that to her as to her it was a sign of somebody who cares for you. Sadly later on found out that whole intention of her marrying that guy at the start was to continue her study. The whole marriage had no foundation and was unstable on many aspects...however she was able to continue with her study and was already finishing her second masters. That taught me a very valuable lesson of how serious one's intention needs to be in the marriage as you will get exactly what you intended.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!

 

[Simple_Person]

i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!

To change somebody's mind, i think we as human beings must first listen to what they have to say. Often it is lack of understanding they do not follow the right path. I mean just listen to somebody's story with empathy we then can put the advice where it is placed within their story to make it more sense. So if a woman has been assaulted in her life, has a trauma and is scared of men, but still wears such tight clothes. Knowing and feeling her sadness we than can place the covering-body part within her story. While walking up to her and saying..sister cover up, would rather be very blunt. They might do something but not really know that there is another way, just like those sisters kept drinking.

To take myself as an example. In my life i saw people wanting to settle down and start a family, but all their life had no meaning as many would walk against mid-life crisis or even worse of committing suicide because despite they having accomplished what they wanted...they would be empty inside. I am a stubborn man if i do not get a logic, rational and reasonable answer to my questions. So i refused to live the life of all the people that went before me to settle down and start a family. So somebody walking up to me and saying "brother look in to Islam"..would have looked to me as those "ooh i have seen the face of God in a cloud"-people. So in other words i would have thrown that in the bin. While rather knowing my story and placing Islam in my story by logic, rationality and reason would make more sense.

 

[sister herb]

It depends of course what is the situation. If sister already covers herself and cover has accidentally moved a little, sister may feels that correcting is only a sign of caring comparing if she doesn´t cover at all but use miniskirt or tight jeans and you go to tell her that "That´s haram, you have to cover yourself!". In such cases, you may have to look out the handbag.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!

damn! i tired to find this video of shaykh Hamza Yusuf in tears while relating a story!!!; he went into a shop one day and there were some terribly dressed sisters; he said to them, 'you are my sisters in Islam!, and you are dressing the way men would look at you as a wolf looks at sheep! ... he said few days later he went back to that shop and saw one of the sisters started wearing hijab! :Emoji43:

 

[Simple_Person]

It depends of course what is the situation. If sister already covers herself and cover has accidentally moved a little, sister may feels that correcting is only a sign of caring comparing if she doesn´t cover at all but use miniskirt or tight jeans and you go to tell her that "That´s haram, you have to cover yourself!". In such cases, you may have to look out the handbag.

Sub'han'Allah, just the comment above yours, i learned from my "own" comment. This is what "i" said.

To take myself as an example. In my life i saw people wanting to settle down and start a family, but all their life had no meaning as many would walk against mid-life crisis or even worse of committing suicide because despite they having accomplished what they wanted...they would be empty inside. I am a stubborn man if i do not get a logic, rational and reasonable answer to my questions. So i refused to live the life of all the people that went before me to settle down and start a family. So somebody walking up to me and saying "brother look in to Islam"..would have looked to me as those "ooh i have seen the face of God in a cloud"-people. So in other words i would have thrown that in the bin. While rather knowing my story and placing Islam in my story by logic, rationality and reason would make more sense.

I sub'han'Allah then suddenly realized something, although i have known this for years since becoming Muslim but now suddenly realizing it and understanding it more. Qur'an took 23 years to arrive. When did the ayaat come down? As far as my knowledge goes is that often were solutions to peoples problems. So no advice out of the blue but LITERALLY "PLACING ISLAM IN THE LIFE STORIES OF PEOPLE". As you yourself said if it is accidentally done, one can advice. However to change something that is not by accident done one need to place this Islamic advice within THEIR story. Just like you said, you will probably not achieve it as it is thrown in her face/life story not placed in her life story. While Islam as we know was placed every time in the life stories of people.

 

[sister herb]

This same we can find from the old saying: before you can tell to other person how to walk, you should try to walk using his shoes.

 

[*charisma*]

So I guess it is personal then? You are okay with men approaching you, I'm not and many women are not. It doesn't make us wrong and there's many ways to care for brothers and sister and try to please Allah.

No, that's the thing. It's not personal. And no I'm not "okay" with men approaching me unnecessarily. It has to be with a purpose/reason for the sake of Allah. I mean I'd much rather not have anyone have to approach me, and if so, a woman firstly, but if not, then a brother. This is what will make me most comfortable. However, the point you're missing here is the end goal. Yours is comfort. Mine is proper wear. So whether a guy is telling you something good or not, you are not comfortable with it at all. Therefore these scenarios probably do not apply to you at all because no matter what it is, you just don't want any brothers approaching you for anything, and that's fine. I, on the other hand, have not made comfort my priority when it comes to doing something right, so I totally allow advice that comes my way. Secondly, I don't think it should matter who the advice is coming from because the truth is the truth. Another way I think about it is that if I passed out on the road somewhere, and a male doctor came to my aid, should I admonish him just because he's a male doctor and not a female doctor? Of course not, because my end goal here is safety and health, not comfort.

I've never said all men do it out of ill intentions As you said, most men don't do it and that's because naturally men are not inclined to try and correct women that are not theirs to correct . I hope that makes sense. I don't find it courageous if a man approached me to correct my attire, I find it on the offensive side, even if the brother is a nice guy.

Yes, and I understand the "approaching" part can be an issue, which is why I'm asking of other methods which are less invasive. I also think that it makes a huge difference in the way advise is given because it can easily make someone feel quite defensive to be told they're dressed inappropriately.

Most of them do though. Sure, there are always exceptions, but that isn't the norm. When it is a new muslim woman, then she probably doesn't know and in most of those cases they are looking for guidance. When its a young girl, she may be under the wrong impression, correct, but they have mothers... I remember during ramadan once, there was a girl who would unbutton her abaya, take off her hijab and put on red hot lipstick while her parents were in tarawee prayer and she's prance around where the boys were hanging out.

I personally went through a period of wearing fitted mini dresses with a long black flowy skirt and a long black cardigan and headscarf. I knew it wasn't correct, but I justified it and wore it anyway. Any brother who has courted a woman for marriage and has addressed hijab can tell you that they get defensive right away.

So, I respectfully disagree with assuming women don't know. It's quite easy to tell really, if you hang around the masjid enough and if you are familiar with the community

Justifications come with ignorance. We justify things because we believe one thing to be as correct when it's not, or we believe we have room for making mistakes, when we don't. Ignorance. Wearing something you KNOW you shouldn't be wearing is straight up disobedience--arrogance. Their priorities are not to please ALlah subhanahu wa ta'ala but themselves. And when someone realizes that and fears Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala then they change. But until they are out of that haze of ignorance/arrogance, then they remain dressed the same. So to some extent, these women are ignorant and maybe also arrogant, but that's not for us to decide because none of us know what is deep in the heart of man. Our duty is dawah.

 

[*charisma*]

:hmm:

speaking from experience, it's better to just walk on! Although there was this one time the sister told me "I'm not actually a Muslim?" and yeah, that was the safest version of events hew

Scimi

;D ;D What happened??

i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!

Well, saying "haram! haram!" is not effective in my opinion, but he at least said something when he saw people doing wrong, even if nothing happened.

Four males are responsible for the females in the family, at this point in time I can't recall the 4th but they include Father, brother and husband. If the women in the family are dressed irresponsibly, is it up to any other male in intercede, other than family? Maybe the power of dua is what's best. Make dua for the sister and her family for guidance.

Have we considered the reason for asking for an opinion when we already have the Sunnah and Qur'an to rely on?

"To you be your way..."

Allahu alem.

Well when it comes to dawah, it is best to correct yourself, then the closest people to you ie. your family, then your friends, etc. I also feel that it's more effective if, as bro [MENTION=40458]Simple_Person[/MENTION] said, to word advice in a way which resonates with the person or puts it in a different perspective for them. This is not compulsion, but rather, giving them something to ponder about or softening their heart towards doing what's right.

 

[AbdurRahman.]

Well, saying "haram! haram!" is not effective in my opinion, but he at least said something when he saw people doing wrong, even if nothing happened.

yes thats right; and it well could get them to ponder over what he said even though they didn't stop straight away!

 

[Umm♥Layth]

So I had a conversation with my husband last night. He was in university for about 8 years and was very active in the MSA, so I felt it would be useful to get his info. For the sake of getting some more male input, here's our short convo on this matter:

Me: "Have you ever and do you corrected strangers [muslim] about how they dress?"

DH(dear husband): "Yes"

Me: "Sisters or brothers?"

DH: "Both, if I know them"

Me: "So you don't correct strangers?"

DH: "Not really"

Me: "So if a strange sister walked by you on the street with her abaya tucked in her pants, clearly an accident, would you let her go on like that?"

DH: "I'd probably tell her, but these days it isn't easy to tell if a sister means to cover fully or not. If she was wearing niqab, I'd for sure let her know, but otherwise it would be tough"

Me: "So women like to go around walking with abayas tucked in their pants as a fashion statement?"

DH: "I don't know, you tell me. I guess if I ever saw that, which I don't know how a woman wouldn't feel the breeze and all that, I'd say something"

Me: "Well I don't like strange men approaching me for anything, how would you like it if a strange guy approached your wife to tell her that she has her dress in her pants, he'd have to look at her butt!"

DH: "Well, he could always get a sister to tell her instead."

ME: "Funny how it changes if it is your wife huh? What if for some reason her leg was showing from under her skirt or abaya?"

DH: "How does that even happen? It depends on the situation. If it was like an Islamic event where there's alot of people around, I would have a sister tell her. If I was walking down the street, I'd quickly let her know and keep walking so she doesn't get embarrassed."

ME: "That's interesting. So what if you were on the street and a sister had her jilbab buttoned down and she was not appropriately dressed underneath and to you could see private areas? Is it appropriate to address that?"

DH: "No, that's not appropriate. I'm sure she'd figure it out once she noticed people staring, although again, not sure how a person wouldn't know"

ME: "What about if it was a sister with tight jeans, fitted shirt and hijab? Would you say something then?"

DH: "No way, that is not accidental. Do you know what she'd say to me? "Why were you looking at me in the first place, you are supposed to lower your gaze."

ME: "Yeah, you should lower your gaze. Why you looking in the first place huh?"

DH: "Yeah, always looking at the floor so I run into things. I should keep my eyes on the gas pedal and not the road . Lowering the gaze means you don't stare, not that you can't look to see where you are going and what you are doing."

ME: "Touché. Aren't we supposed to prevent evil though and give dawa though? How is it correct to allow a sister to walk around like that and say nothing?"

DH: "You are supposed to tell her in the best way possible and for women, telling them on the spot will only result in some sort of drama because women tend to be emotional about this subject. If it is an ongoing thing, you'd have to find the right way to address the situation. It will be difficult though, because they choose to dress that way knowing that it isn't appropriate. If it is somebody I know, I will address it, but it still doesn't turn out pretty though."

ME: "Well, I think its a mahram's place to address the dress. Every woman has a father or husband or brother or uncle."

DH: "Yeah, but not with her everywhere she goes. Addressing an accident like hair sticking out, skin showing where it wasn't meant to show, tags sticking out and whatnot, is not the same as addressing purposeful wrong dress."

ME: "I don't like being approached by men for anything, it is not appropriate, so I can't say I agree with what you do, but then again women are funny like that. Maybe it is a good things some guys feel the way you do. I dunno."

DH: "If you are approached, then just keep walking and don't worry about it. Just make sure you check yourself constantly to avoid the issue all together"

I didn't know my husband was one of those guys ;D There you have it folks. Hope this conversation brought some insight.

 

[sister herb]

But is drinking soft drinks haram then? They usually haven´t alcohol (like limonade)? Even if it was for example time of Ramadan, they might have some reason why they couldn´t fast.

 

[M.I.A.]

i saw this guy admonish two sisters drinking some soft drinks one day; he was saying 'haram haram!' and the sisters were just laughing at him and drinking even more! :Emoji48: and thats the adverse effect it could have on immodest sisters i think

however sincere heartfelt advice could well work!

i notice people eating and drinking using the left hand a lot. i did not think it would be that common.

although i work in an eating and drinking shop.

although maybe people dont think about it?