Why did Islam invade Spain?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Joe98
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 110
  • Views Views 18K
salam alaikum

Best to my knowledge the invasion of spain took place because the Muslim Missionaries who had landed in Europe had been slaughtered by the church in the name of Christ and termed blasphemers.

According to medival Christian Law all people who believed in other Gods apart from Jesus were blasphemers.

I read a long eloborate article about this in a magazine in London that the Muslim missionaries were killed and the women were kept captive and being harrassed upon which the caliph sent a letter to their king which said "as you read this the last of our armies will be leaving our gates and the first of our armies will be entering your lands"

They were invited to stop this persecution but they had refused.

and in Islam we are told to fight against persecution
 
Greetings,

I'd love to hear more about this. Shall I start a new thread, or maybe you can give me a link to some more information about the Islamic contribution to the Enlightenment? I can't find anything on it.

Peace

Check this out... just to list a couple! http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article350594.ece

Here it is translated into Arabic...

الإخوة الكرام في قروب عرب تايمز : السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته .

هذا مقال رائع ومنصف للكاتب باول فاليللي عن المخترعين المسلمين وكيف أثروا العالم باختراعات غالبية البشر لا يستغنون عنها حتى الآن .

ذكر كاتب الموضوع أكثر 20 اختراعاً تأثيراً على العالم, من القهوة مروراً بتقنية التقطير لتنقية المياه إلى وضع قواعد الشطرنج وغيرها .

المقالة تحمل العديد من المفاجآت .

من المقالات النادرة المنصفة في زمن طغى فيه التضليل .


المقال من الصحيفة نفسها على الرابط : [ اضغط هنا ]


------------------------------------------------------------


ترجمة: (( كيف غير المخترعون المسلمون وجه العالم؟ ))


من القهوة مروراً بنظام الثلاث وجبات اليومي وحتى الشيكات, أعطانا العالم الإسلامي العديد من الإبتكارات التي لا غني عن إستعمالها في حياتنا اليومية الآن, يذكر كاتب الموضوع باول فاليللي أكثر 20 ابتكارا تأثيراً على العالم ويعرفنا بالعباقرة الذين كانوا وراء هذه الابتكارات.

1: تقول القصة أن هناك عربي يدعى خالد كان يعني ببعض الماعز في منطقة “كافا” بجنوب أثيوبيا, عندما لاحظ أن حيواناته أصبحت أكثر نشاطاً حينما تأكل التوت, فقام بغلي التوت ليصنع أول فنجان من القهوة! , ومن المؤكد أن أول مرة خرج فيها مشروب القهوة إلى خارج أثيوبيا كان الى اليمن حيثشربها “صفي” كي يظل يقظاً طوال الليل ليصلي في مناسبة خاصة. في أواخر القرن الخامس عشر وصلت القهوة الى مكة وتركيا.. التي منها وصلت الى فينسيا في عام 1645م. ثم الى انجلترا بعد خمس سنوات في 1650 بواسطة تركي يدعى “باسكوا روسي” الذي فتح أول “محل قهوة” في شارع لومبارد بمدينة لندن… القهوة العربية صارت بعد ذلك تركية.. ثم إيطالية وإنجليزية!


2: قدماء اليونانيون ظنوا أن أعيننا تُخرِج أشعة مثل الليزر والتي تجعلنا قادرين على الرؤية, أول شخص لاحظ أن الضوء يدخل إلى العين ولا يخرج منها كان في عالم رياضي وفيزيائي وفلكي مسلم, وهو الحسن بن الهيثم. حيث إكتشف أن الإبصار يحدث بسبب سقوط الإشعة من الضوء على الجسم المرئي مما يمكن للعين أن تراه.. ولكن العين لا تخرج أشعة من نفسها.. وإلا كيف لا ترى العين في الظلام ؟ و اكتشف ابن الهيثم ظاهرة انعكاس الضوء، وظاهرة انعطاف الضوء أي انحراف الصورة عن مكانها في حال مرور الأشعة الضوئية في وسط معين إلى وسط غير متجانس معه. كما اكتشف أن الانعطاف يكون معدوماً إذا مرت الأشعة الضوئية وفقاً لزاوية قائمة من وسط إلى وسط آخر غير متجانس معه, ووضع ابن الهيثم بحوثاً في ما يتعلق بتكبير العدسات، وبذلك مهّد لاستعمال العدسات المتنوعة في معالجة عيوب العين, ويعتبر الحسن بن الهيثم أول من انتقل بالفيزياء من المرحلة الفلسفية للمرحلة العملية [ from a philosophical activity to an experimental one ] .


3: كان هناك أحد أشكال لعبة الشطرنج في الهند القديمة, لكن اللعبة طورت إلى الطريقة التي نعرفها الآن في بلاد فارس [ إيران ] , من هناك إنتشرت اللعبة غرباً إلى أوروبا حيث قدمها المغاربة في أسبانيا في القرن العاشر الميلادي, وانتشرت شرقاً إلى اليابان.. تستعمل في الغرب كلمة rook لطابية الشطرنج كما نعرفها.. ويعود اصل هذه الكلمة إلى كلمة “رُخ” العربية.



4: قبل آلاف السنوات من تجربة الأخوان رايت في بريطانيا للطيران.. كان هناك شاعر وفلكي وموسيقي ومهندس مسلم يدعى “عباس بن فرناس” قام بمحاولات عديدة لإنشاء آلة طيران, في عام 825 قفر من أعلى مئذنة الجامع الكبير في قرطبة مستخدما عباءة صلبة غير محكمة مدعمة بقوائم خشبية, كان يأمل أن أن يحلق كالطيور.. لم يفلح في هذا ولكن العباءة قللت من سرعة هبوطه.. مكونة ما يمكن أن نمسيه أول “باراشوت” وخرج من هذه التجربة فقط بجروح بسيطة, في 875 حين كام عمره 70 عاماً.. قام بتطوير ماكينة من الحرير وريش النسور ثم حاول مرة أخرى بالقفز من أعلى جبل هذه المرة, وصل هذه المرة إلى ارتفاع عال.. وظل طائرا لمدة عشر دقائق.. لكنه تحطم في الهبوط!.. كان ذلك بسبب عدم وضع “ذيل” للجهاز الذي ابتكره كي يتمكن من الهبوط بطريقة صحيحة, مطار بغداد الدولي وفوهة أحد البراكين في المغرب تم تسميتهما على اسمه.


5: الإغتسال والنظافة متطلبات دينية لدي المسلمين, ربما كان هذا السبب في أنهم طوروا شكل الصابون إلى الشكل الذي مازلنا نستخدمه الآن!.. قدماء المصريين كان عندهم أحد أنواع الصابون.. تماما مثل الرومان الذين استخدموها غالبا كـمرهم!, لكنهم كانوا العرب هم من جمعوا بين زيوت النباتات وهيدروكسيد الصوديوم والمواد الأروماتية مثل الـ “thyme oil” .كان أحد أكثر خصائص الصليبيون غرابة بالنسبة للمسلمين كانت أنهم لا يغتسلون!.. الشامبو قدم في انجلترا لأول مرة حينما قام أحد المسلمين بفتح احد محلات الاستحمام بالبخار في “بريتون سيفرونت” في عام 1759 .



6: التقطير ووسائل فصل السوائل من خلال الاختلافات في درجة غليانها, أخترعت في حوالي العام 800 م. بواسطة العالم المسلم الكبير “جابر بن حيان” , الذي قام بتحويل “الخيمياء” أو “الكيمياء القديمة” إلى “الكيمياء الحديثة” كما نعرفها الآن.. مخترعا العديد من العديد من العمليات الأساسية والادوات التي لانزال نستخدمها حتى الآن؛ السيولة, والتبلور, والتقطير, والتنقية, والأكسدة, والتبخير والترشيح.. جنباً الى جنب مع اكتشاف الكبريت وحمض النيتريك, اخترع جابر بن حيان أمبيق التقطير – تستخدم الانجليزية لفظ alembic وهو مشتق من لفظ “إمبيق” العربي – وهو آلة تستخدم في عملية التقطير.. مقدماً للعالم العطور وبعض المشروبات الكحولية ويذكر الكاتب أن ذلك حرام في الإسلام , إستخدم إبن حيان التجربة المنظمة ويعتبر مكتشف الكيمياء الحديثة.



7: المضخة جهاز عبارة عن آلة من المعدن تدار بقوة الريح أو بواسطة حيوان يدور بحركة دائرية، وكان الهدف منها أن ترفع المياه من الآبار العميقة إلى اسطح الأرض، وكذلك كانت تستعمل في رفع المياه من منسوب النهر إذا كان منخفضاً إلى الأماكن العليا.. صنعت بواسطة مهندس مسلم بارع يسمى “الجزري” .. هذه المضخة هي الفكرة الرئيسية التي بنيت عليها جميع المضخات المتطورة في عصرنا الحاضر والمحركات الآلية كلها ابتداء من المحرك البخاري الذي في القطار أو البواخر إلى محرك الاحتراق الداخلي الذي يعمل بالبنزين كما في السيارة والطائرة.. ويعتبر “الجزري” هو الأب الروحي لعلم الـ robotics والخاص بتصنيع الـrobots كما نعرفها اليوم.. من ضمن إختراعاته الخمسين الأخرى كان الـ” combination lock ” وهي التي نراها اليوم في طريقة قفل بعض الحقائب والخزانات باستخدام بعض الأرقام بجوار بعضها مكونة شفرة .



8: وضع طبقة من مادة أخرى بين طبقتين من القماش.. تعتبر أحدى طرق الخياطة وغير معروف إذا كانت ابتكرت في العالم الإسلامي أم انها قد نشأت أولاً في الهند أو الصين, ولكن من المؤكد أنها وصلت للغرب من خلال الصليبيون.. عندما رأوا بعض المحاربين المسلمين يرتدون قمصانا مصنوعة بهذه الطريقة بدلاً من الدروع والتي كانت مفيدة جداً كوسيلة للحماية من أسلحة الصليبيين المعدنية.. حيث كونت نوع من أنواع الحماية لهم.. وهي تعتبر أول “قميص واقي من الرصاص” في العالم : ) .. استخدمها الغرب هذه الطريقة فيما بعد للوقاية من برودة الجو في دول مثل بريطانيا وهولندا..



9: تعد الأقواس مستدقة الطرف من أهم الخصائص المعمارية التي تميز كاتدرائيات أوروبا القوطية, فكرة هذه الأقواس ابتكرها المعماريون المسلمون. وهي أقوى بكثير من الأقواس مستديرة الطرف والتي كان يستخدمها الرومان والنورمانيون, لأنها تساعدك على أن يكون البناء أكبر وأعلى وأكثر تعقيداً.. إقتبس الغرب من المسلمين أيضاً طريقة بناء القناطر والقباب. قلعات أوروبا منسوخة الفكرة أيضاً من العالم الإسلامي, بدءا الشقوق الطولية في الأسوار, وشرفات القلعة.. وطريقة الحصن الأمامي وحواجز الأسقف.. والأبراج المربعة.. والتي كانت تسهل جدا حماية القلعة.. ويكفي أن تعرف أن المهندس المعماري الذي قام ببناء قلعة هنري الخامس كان مسلم.



10: العديد من الآلات الجراحية الحديثة المستخدمة الآن لازالت بنفس التصميم الذي ابتكرها به الجراح المسلم “الزهراوي” في القرن العاشر الميلادي.. هذه الآلات وغيرها أكثرمن مائتي آلة ابتكرها لازالت معروفة للجراحين اليوم, وكان “الزهراوي” يجري عملية إستئصال الغدة الدرقية Thyroid . وذكر “الزهراوي” علاج السرطان في كتابه (التصريف) قائلا: متى كان السرطان في موضع يمكن استئصاله كله كالسرطان الذي يكون في الثدي أو في الفخد ونحوهما من الأعضاء المتمكنة لإخراجه بجملته ,إذا كان مبتدءاً صغيراً فافعل. أما متى تقدم فلا ينبغى أن تقربه فاني ما استطعت أن أبرىء منه أحدا. ولا رأيت قبلى غيري وصل إلى ذلك ” وهي عملية لم يجرؤ أي جراح في أوربا على إجرائها إلا في القرن التاسع عشر بعده أي بتسعة قرون, في القرن الثالث عشر الميلادي.. طبيب مسلم آخر اسمه “ابن النفيس” شرح الدورة الدموية الصغرى.. قبل أن يشرحها ويليام هارفي بـثلاثمائة عام, إخترع علماء المسلمين أيضاً المسكنات من مزيج مادتي الأفيون والكحول وطوروا أسلوباً للحقن بواسطة الإبر لا يزال مستخدم حتى الآن.

11: اخترع المسلمون طواحين الهواء في عام 634 م.. وكانت تستخدم لطحن الذرة وري المياه في الصحراء العربية الواسعة, عندما تصبح جداول المياه جافة, كانت الرياح هي القوة الوحيدة التي يهب من اتجاه ثابت لمدة شهور, الطواحين كانت تحتوي على 6 او 12 أشرعة مغطاة بأوراق النخل, كان هذا قبل أن تظهر طواحين الهواء في أوروبا بخمسمائة عام!



12: فكرة التطعيم لم تبتكر بواسطة جبنر وباستير ..ولكن ابتكرها العالم الاسلامي ووصلت الى اوروبا من خلال زوجة سفير بريطانيا في تركيا وتحديدا في اسطنبول عام 1724 , الأطفال في تركيا طعِّموا ضد الجدرى قبل خمسون عاما من اكتشاف الغرب لذلك!



13: القلم الجاف اخترع في مصر أول مرة لأجل السلطان في عام 953, حينما طلب قلما لا يلوث يداه أو ملابسه.. و كان القلم يحتوي على الحبر في خزانة مثل الأقلام الحديثة .



14: نظام الترقيم المستخدم في العالم الآن ربما كان هندي الأصل.. ولكن طابع الأرقام عربي وأقدم ظهور له في بعض أعمال عالمي الرياضة المسلمين الخوارزمي والكندي حوالي العام 825, سميت “Algebra ” على اسم كتاب الخوارزمي “الجبر والمقابلة” والذي لا يزال الكثير من محتوياته تستخدم حالياً.. الأفكار والنظريات التي توصل لها علماء الرياضيات المسلمين نقلت إلى اوروبا بعد ذلك بـ300 عام على يد العالم الإيطالي فيبوناشي.. الـ” Algorithms” وعلم المثلثات نشأوا في العالم الإسلامي.



15: علي بن نفيس والمعروف باسم “زيراب”.. قدم من العراق الى قرطبة في القرن التاسع الميلادي, وعرّف الغرب لأول مرة بمبدأ الثلاث وجبات اليومية.. وقدّم أيضاً البلور أو الزجاج الشفاف لأول مرة والذي تم اختراعه بعد عدة تجارب بواسطة عباس بن فرناس.



16: بواسطة تقدمهم العالي في فنون الحياكة, ووجود أصباغ جديدة بفضل تقدم المسلمون في الكيمياء بالإضافة لوجود الحس العالي في استخدام النقوش والتي كانت اساسا للفن الإسلامي غير التصويري, برع المسلمون في صناعة السجاجيد وغيرها, على العكس في الجهة الأخرى كانت الأرضيات في اوروبا بوضوح بلا أغطية حتى وصلتها السجاجيد العربية والفارسية والتي قدمت في انجلترا كما سجل إيسراموس ” الأرضيات كانت مفروشة بالحشائش.. ونادراً ما تجدد.. وأحياناً كثيرة كانت تترك مخلفات البشر والحيوانات وفتات الأطعمة في الشوارع ” .



17: كلمة “Cheque” الغربية أتت في الأصل من الكلمة العربية “صك” , وهي عبارة عن وصل مكتوب يستخدم لشراء السلع, وذلك لتفادي مشاكل نقل الأموال وتعرضها للمناطق الخطرة.. في القرن التاسع عشر كان يستطيع رجل الأعمال المسلم أن يدفع في الصين بواسطة شيك لبنك في بغداد!!



18: في القرن التاسع عشر قال الكثير من علماء المسلمين أن الأرض كروية, وكان الدليل كما قال الفلكي “ابن حزم” أن الشمس دائما ما تكون عمودية على نقطة محددة على الأرض , كان ذلك قبل أن يكتشف جاليليون ذات النقطة ب500 عام.. [ نلاحظ أن ابن حزم لم يعدم لقوله هذا عكس ما حدث مع جاليليو من الكنيسة! ] .



19: كانت حسابات الفلكيون المسلمون دقيقة جدا حيث أنه في القرن التاسع.. حيث حسبوا محيط الأرض ليجدوه 40,253.4 كيلومتر وهو أقل من المحيط الفعلي بـ200 كيلومتر فقط! , رسم العالم الإدريسي رسما للكرة الأرضية لأحد الملوك في عام 1139 ميلادية.



20: إذا كان الصينيون هم من اكتشفوا البارود واستخدموه في إشعال النيران, فإن العرب هم أول من نقّى البارود باستخدام نترات البوتاسيوم ليكون صالحاً للإستعمال الحربي, مما أصاب أصاب الصليبيين بالرعب, في القرن الخامس عشر نجح المسلمون في اختراع أول صاروخ وأول طوربيد بحري .



في العصور الوسطى كان لدي الأوروبيون مطابخ وحدائق عشبية, ولكنهم كانوا العرب هم من طوروا فكرة الحديثة كمكان للجمال والتأمل.


أتمنى يكون المقال أعجبكم .

وفقكم الله .
 
Your land was created by and belongs to Allah and only Allah.

You did not say it belonged to God but to the Muslims. Why did you make that comment? Do you think that God has, in fact, given all the world to the Muslims and they are the rightful owners?

I am not talking about governments.

Nor am I.

You are totally missing the point. Stop jumping to conclusions.

What other conclusion is there for me to jump to? Do the British have a legal and moral right in Islam to the possession of Great Britain? In your opinion.
 
Best to my knowledge the invasion of spain took place because the Muslim Missionaries who had landed in Europe had been slaughtered by the church in the name of Christ and termed blasphemers.

>deletions<

They were invited to stop this persecution but they had refused.

and in Islam we are told to fight against persecution

So if any Muslim country, Saudi Arabia for instance, stops US nationals from going there without permission and preaching Christianity and Judaism, that is oppression which would justify an American invasion?
 
Oh really?! never heard this before. U know wat Algeria is called? "the country of the million martyrs", thats the minimum number of Algerians killed by those so-tolerant French.

Actually that number is likely to be an exaggeration, although more, as a percentage, were killed during the initial French invasion. But that is beside the point. I did not say they did not kill people who rose in rebellion. I said they were far more tolerant of Islam than the Arabs were of Christianity. And they were - the French did not execute anyone for stating their religious beliefs.

And Brithish?!! come on, give me a biiiiig break, u know one thing they did, they started the religiouse tension in India, before their invasion muslims n hindus co-existed peacefully. The British implanted the seeds of hatred, so many blood was wasted coz of them, the hindus n Muslims r still payin the price high.

You need to read fewer dishonest apologies for the Muslims in India and more real history. Look up Aurangzeb for instance. The history of the Muslims in India is a long history of oppression and rebellion broken only by a few people like Akhbar - denounced in his time as a bad Muslim.

That doesnt mean it belongs to me, or to Ahmad or to Abdul Allah coz we didnt do anything to earn it. It means it belongs to Allah SWT.

What would you have to do to earn it? And even if it does not belong to you as individuals, does it belong to you as a group - it is Fay for the Muslims? Are we kafirs, by refusing to pay jizyah and kharaj on "your" land commiting a crime in Islam that would justify an invasion?

Caliphate said:
We cant say that Islam invaded Spain, because Islam doesnt invade a counrty and plounder its resources like we see in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.
>deletions<
Dont make judgmetns based on selective incidents, bad peaple exsit every where n in every religion. Muslims n Arabs didnt migrate to Spain in millions n ran the country, the spanish ppl themselves converted to Islam n then participated in runnin the country.

Actually they did migrate to Spain in tens of thousands and ran the country. The Arabs of the Umayyad period were highly racially sensitive and so they kept track if people were real Arabs, Berbers or converts.

By the fact that you have changed the subject can we all agree that the Arabs did invade Spain and plunder its resources?

By the way, isnt it ungratefull to argue the validity of the existence of Muslims in Spain wen we all know that Muslims dragged Europeans from Mideval times to Enlightenment?!!

Well no it is not known and it is not ungrateful. Unless of course we all agree that it is ungrateful to argue about the validity of European colonialism which, as we all know, dragged the Muslims from the Dark Ages into the Modern World.
 
Actually that number is likely to be an exaggeration, although more, as a percentage, were killed during the initial French invasion.

really? as for me I dont look at it as exaggeration, One millions is not a small number. Also, I refuse to gree with u, muslims were very very tolarent at that time.

You need to read fewer dishonest apologies for the Muslims in India and more real history. Look up Aurangzeb for instance. The history of the Muslims in India is a long history of oppression and rebellion broken only by a few people like Akhbar - denounced in his time as a bad Muslim.

U need to read more, British destroeyd the land, enslaved its ppl, stole their resources...n a lot more.
Why do u talks as if its only u who refer to reliable sources?

And even if it does not belong to you as individuals, does it belong to you as a group - it is Fay for the Muslims? Are we kafirs, by refusing to pay jizyah and kharaj on "your" land commiting a crime in Islam that would justify an invasion?

nope it doesnt belong to the Muslims as well. Nope, invasion for such reasons in todays world is not justified.

By the fact that you have changed the subject can we all agree that the Arabs did invade Spain and plunder its resources?

Yes they did with Justice, they gave the citizens of spain a better life.

Well no it is not known and it is not ungrateful. Unless of course we all agree that it is ungrateful to argue about the validity of European colonialism which, as we all know, dragged the Muslims from the Dark Ages into the Modern World
Oh no, Muslims were good untill Europe's invasion.
 
Last edited:
So if any Muslim country, Saudi Arabia for instance, stops US nationals from going there without permission and preaching Christianity and Judaism, that is oppression which would justify an American invasion?

No no Hegou, dont compare todays times with things that happned centuris n centuris back.

Is it fair to go about n say that America n Europe r using the same means as been used, like hundreds of years back, to spread Christianity?!
 
Greetings,


Interesting stuff, but what does it have to do with the Enlightenment?

Peace
hey czgibson

ru looking for this

[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times]Islam's Contribution To Europe's Renaissance[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] HRH, The Prince of Wales, Islam And The West [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] . . . we have underestimated the importance of 800 years of Islamic society and culture in Spain between the 8th and 15th centuries. The contribution of Muslim Spain to the preservation of classical learning during the Dark Ages, and to the first flowering of the Renaissance, has long been recognized. But Islamic Spain was much more than a mere larder where Hellenistic knowledge was kept for later consumption by the emerging modern world. Not only did Muslim Spain gather and preserve the intellectual content of ancient Greek and Roman civilization, it also interpreted and expanded upon that civilization, and made a vital contribution of its own in so many fields of human endeavour -- in science, astronomy, mathematics, algebra (itself an Arabic word), law, history, medicine, pharmacology, optics, agriculture, architecture, theology, music. Averroes and Avenzoor, like their counterparts Avicenna and Rhazes in the East, contributed to the study and practice of medicine in ways from which Europe benefited for centuries afterwards. [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Islam nurtured and preserved the quest for learning. In the words of (the Prophet's) tradition "the ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr." Cordoba in the 10th century was by far the most civilized city of Europe. We know of lending libraries in Spain at the time King Alfred was making terrible blunders with the culinary arts in this country. It is said that the 400,000 volumes of its ruler's library amounted to more books than all the of the rest of Europe put together. That was made possible because the Muslim world acquired from China the skill of making paper more than four hundred years before the rest of non-Muslim Europe. Many of the traits on which Europe prides itself came to it from Muslim Spain. Diplomacy, free trade, open borders, the techniques of academic research, of anthropology, etiquette, fashion, alternative medicine, hospitals, all came from this great city of cities. Mediaeval Islam was a religion of remarkable tolerance for its time, allowing Jews and Christians to practice their inherited beliefs, and setting an example which was not, unfortunately, copied for many centuries in the West. The surprise, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent to which Islam has been a part of Europe for so long, first in Spain, then in the Balkans, and the extent to which it has contributed so much towards the civilization which we all too often think of, wrongly, as entirely Western. Islam is part of our past and present, in all fields of human endeavour. It has helped to create modern Europe. It is part of our own inheritance, not a thing apart. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] 1001 Inventions: Discover the Muslim Heritage of Our World [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] The project supported by the Home Office and the Department for Trade and Industry, uncovers the Islamic civilisation's overlooked contribution to science, technology and art during the dark ages in European history. [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Maria Rosa Menocal, The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] [It] is no exaggeration to say that what we presumptuously call 'Western' culture is owed in large measure to the Andalusian enlightenment....This book partly restores to us a world we have lost, a world for which our current monotheistic leaderships do not even feel nostalgia.--Christopher Hitchens, The Nation [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Akbar S. Ahmed, Living Islam [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] It is well to recall that Islam not only caused Islamic civilization to develop but also enabled the European Renaissance to take root and grow. The time when Islam was most strongly established was also the time when art, culture and literature flourished, whether in Spain or, later, under the Ottomans, the Safavids and the Mughals. Christian Europe was enveloped in darkness until Islam came to the Iberian peninsula. For centuries Islam fed Greek, Sanskrit and Chinese ideas into Europe. Slowly and steadily Europe began to absorb those ideas. In England, France, Germany and Italy society began to explore literature and art with a new perspective; thus the seeds of the Renaissance were sown. -- p. 15 [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] James Johnston, Medieval Script Shows Islam's Role in Learning [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] The manuscript stands as a uniquely important monument to the central role of Jews and Muslims in the spread of knowledge and learning throughout medieval Europe, as well as being possibly the earliest known example of Latin script of any kind written on paper. Sotheby's says that only four other copies of this work are known. [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Washington W. Irving, Tales Of The Alhambra [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] As conquerors [Muslims], their heroism was equaled only by their moderation, and in both, for a time, they excelled the nations with whom they contended. Severed from their native homes, they loved the land given them as they supposed by Allah and strove to embellish it with everything that could administer to the happiness of man. Laying the foundations of their power in a system of wise and equitable laws, diligently cultivating the arts and sciences, and promoting agriculture, manufactures and commerce, they gradually formed an empire unrivaled for its prosperity by any of the empires of Christendom . . . [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times]The cities of Arabian Spain became the resort of Christian artisans, to instruct themselves in the useful art. The Universities of Toledo, Cordova, Seville, Granada, were sought by the pale student from lands to acquaint himself with the sciences of the Arabs and the treasure lore of antiquity. -- p. 52 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Martin Wainwright, Our Debt to Islam [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] While the barbarians smashed and burned in western Europe, the Arabs and Persians used the libraries of Alexandria and Asia Minor, translated the scrolls and took them to Baghdad and far beyond. In distant Bukhara on the Silk Road to China, a teenager called Abu Ali Ibn Sina was engrossed in Aristotle's Metaphysics at the age of 17. The year was AD997 and the text - central to the subsequent development of philosophy - had long been lost and unknown in western Europe. [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] David Self, Christians and Muslims Share a Journey [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] We are indebted to the Arabic world not only for arithmetic but also for algebra and trigonometry. Logarithms were invented by a mathematician called Al-Khwarizmi in the 7th century. Test tubes, the compass and the first surgical tools were all pioneered by Muslim inventors. A thousand years ago, it is said, Baghdad had 60 hospitals. [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] This scientific flowering was accompanied by the establishment of the first universities - or madrassahs. In a madrassah, the sheik or professor taught, literally, from a chair. He was assisted by readers. When the west eventually replicated such places of learning, we borrowed such terms. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Jared Diamond, Guns, Germs, and Steel [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] In the Middle Ages the flow of technology was overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe, rather than from Europe to Islam as it is today. Only around A.D. 1500 did the net direction of flow begin to reverse. -- p. 253 [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Fernand Braudel, A History of Civilizations [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] The major landmarks in this process of expolitation were: in the sixteenth century, the arrival of 'treasures' (gold and silver ingots) from America; the brutal opening-up of India after the battle of Plassey (23 June 1757), at which the British defeated the nawab of Bengal; the forced expolitation of the Chinese market after the First Opium War in 1839-42; and the partition of Africa at Berlin in 1885. -- p. 388 [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] Susan Spano, Revealed: Muslim Traveler Who Rivaled Marco Polo [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] I had studied medieval Europe ethnocentrically but now can only conclude that during Battuta's time, it was a cultural, political and technological sideshow. In the 14th century, the main event was Dar al-Islam. [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] John Edwards, History Today [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman, Palatino, Times] On the second day of January [1492] I saw Your Highnesses' royal banners placed by force of arms on the towers of the Alhambra . . . and in the same month . . . Your Highness, as Catholic Christians and princes devoted to the holy Christian faith and the furtherance of its cause, and enemies of the sect of Mohammed and of all idolatry and heresy, resolved to send me, Christopher Columbus, to the . . . regions of India. -- vol. 42 [/FONT]​
 
Greetings,

Thank you sonz, you've obviously put some effort in there to provide all that information.

It's about the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, and I'm fully aware of Islam's contributions during those periods. What I'm asking about is the Enlightenment - the tide of rationality that spread through Europe during the 18th century, culminating with the modern scientific world view and increasing secularism. I was unaware that Islam had made any contribution to that, but I'd like to find out if this is indeed the case.

Peace
 
HeiGou said:
Actually that number is likely to be an exaggeration, although more, as a percentage, were killed during the initial French invasion.

really? as for me I dont look at it as exaggeration, One millions is not a small number. Also, I refuse to gree with u, muslims were very very tolarent at that time.

I realise you do not look at it as an exaggeration, but it is still likely that it is. It is not a small number - and it is a number both the French and the FLN contributed to. I don't dispute the fact that Muslims were, by montheistic standards, tolerant for the time. It is just obvious the French were even more tolerant still. Name me one Arab who died because of his religion in the entire French period.

You need to read fewer dishonest apologies for the Muslims in India and more real history. Look up Aurangzeb for instance. The history of the Muslims in India is a long history of oppression and rebellion broken only by a few people like Akhbar - denounced in his time as a bad Muslim.

U need to read more, British destroeyd the land, enslaved its ppl, stole their resources...n a lot more.
Why do u talks as if its only u who refer to reliable sources?

It does not matter what the British did. And of course it is not true that the British destroyed the land - look at India's enormous population growth under the British. And of course the British abolished slavery. And did not steal their resources. But even supposing they did all that, it still would not be true that the Mughals and previous Muslim regimes were tolerant. Why do you think it is a valid argument to criticise the British when faced with the evidence of Mughal oppression? I talk as if I am the only one who can refer to reliable sources because of experience.

nope it doesnt belong to the Muslims as well. Nope, invasion for such reasons in todays world is not justified.

Well you need to talk to some of your brothers. What has changed?

By the fact that you have changed the subject can we all agree that the Arabs did invade Spain and plunder its resources?

Yes they did with Justice, they gave the citizens of spain a better life.

There is no evidence for this at all. And again even if they did, the French gave the Algerians an even better life as well.

Well no it is not known and it is not ungrateful. Unless of course we all agree that it is ungrateful to argue about the validity of European colonialism which, as we all know, dragged the Muslims from the Dark Ages into the Modern World

Oh no, Muslims were good untill Europe's invasion.

And your evidence for this is what exactly?
 
Originally Posted by HeiGou
So if any Muslim country, Saudi Arabia for instance, stops US nationals from going there without permission and preaching Christianity and Judaism, that is oppression which would justify an American invasion?
No no Hegou, dont compare todays times with things that happned centuris n centuris back.

Why not? Does Islamic law change? Isn't it still the case that refusing to allow Muslims to preach is oppression? If so, why not Christians too?

Is it fair to go about n say that America n Europe r using the same means as been used, like hundreds of years back, to spread Christianity?!

Well No it probably is not fair. But, so? I do not understand your point.
 
Greetings,

Thank you sonz, you've obviously put some effort in there to provide all that information.

It's about the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, and I'm fully aware of Islam's contributions during those periods. What I'm asking about is the Enlightenment - the tide of rationality that spread through Europe during the 18th century, culminating with the modern scientific world view and increasing secularism. I was unaware that Islam had made any contribution to that, but I'd like to find out if this is indeed the case.

Peace

salama

european enlightenment did not come out of nowhere czgibson. it was because of the islamic contribution and most scientists from the age of reason used the works of muslims.

because of the islamic thougt it triggered enlightenment in europe.

if u study the renaissance and how muslim scientists always searched for knowledge and reason, you will know that europe borrowed these principles.

masalama
 
Greetings,
european enlightenment did not come out of nowhere czgibson.

Of course.

it was because of the islamic contribution and most scientists from the age of reason used the works of muslims.

Can you give examples? It was my understanding that the transmission of knowledge from the Muslim world to the West had finished long before the Enlightenment, but I'm always happy to be corrected.

if u study the renaissance and how muslim scientists always searched for knowledge and reason, you will know that europe borrowed these principles.

Yes, and for some reason the Islamic world appears to have abandoned them, at least as far as science is concerned.

Peace
 
So if any Muslim country, Saudi Arabia for instance, stops US nationals from going there without permission and preaching Christianity and Judaism, that is oppression which would justify an American invasion?

If saudia Arabia does such things it goes against the teachings of Islam by not allowing freedom of practice of Faith. Furthermore to "stop" someone is one thing but to "kill them" because they are preaching is another fact altogether!

I am sure you are well aware of the fact of the type of atrcities which took place under the church under the labels of "witches" "blasphemers" and "heritics" in the middle ages in Europe. I state again: The Muslim missionaries who went there were killed in the name of Jesus by the order of the Church (which was the controlling hand of the Govt in those times, or rather of the kings/ queens) and the women were kept captive. This is an act of war by any countries standards especially if they refuse to stop these activities.
 
It is just obvious the French were even more tolerant still. Name me one Arab who died because of his religion in the entire French period..

Million Muslim were dead, ugly methods of torture were used in jails, learning Arabic n teaching Islam was prohibited in Algeria. How worse can it get?

It does not matter what the British did.
Why do you think it is a valid argument to criticise the British when faced with the evidence of Mughal oppression? I talk as if I am the only one who can refer to reliable sources because of experience.

See our discussion was never bout Maghals n wat they did, the argument was did British harm India or didnt? the Ansewr is a BIG YES.

I talk as if I am the only one who can refer to reliable sources because of experience.

hmmmmm..

Well you need to talk to some of your brothers. What has changed?

All that happned at times where Militery wars were considered a universal language. Now things changed.

Yes they did with Justice, they gave the citizens of spain a better life.
There is no evidence for this at all. .

Look where spain is right now..look where Europe is? why u still deny the good which came out of Muslim invasion? why r u having such a hard time to accept it?

And again even if they did, the French gave the Algerians an even better life as well
Better life in wat sense? Buildings? schools? roads? French langauge? is thats wat u call a better life...how bout Valus? Principles? Justice? Pride? Dignity? FREEDOM?!
 
Last edited:
To add to what Noor forget to mention is what happened in 1993 when Algeria elected a Islamic government democratically, just like Hamas... and the country cancelled elections and declared marshall law all with the help of france!
 
To add to what Noor forget to mention is what happened in 1993 when Algeria elected a Islamic government democratically, just like Hamas... and the country cancelled elections and declared marshall law all with the help of france!

What relevance is that to anything?

And Algeria did not elect an Islamic government. The FIS did very well in the first round and would have probably won the second round if the Army had not stepped in.
 
Million Muslim were dead, ugly methods of torture were used in jails, learning Arabic n teaching Islam was prohibited in Algeria. How worse can it get?

Well again you need to read some history books. Algerians died during the War for Independence. France did not kill some of them for their religion but because they rose in rebellion. The FLN killed a lot because they remained loyal to France. There was never a time learning Arabic was illegal or that the teaching of Islam was prohibited.

See our discussion was never bout Maghals n wat they did, the argument was did British harm India or didnt? the Ansewr is a BIG YES.

Our argument was and is exactly about the Mughals. You claimed that the Hindus of India were happy under Muslim rule. This is self-evident nonsense as any text book would tell you. And the answer is not a big yes for the period of British rule - unlike Muslim rule. It is more complicated in the case of British India. The British did many good things and they did some bad things. The Mughals built the Taj Mahal.

All that happned at times where Militery wars were considered a universal language. Now things changed.

But what has changed - Islamic law or kafirs?

Look where spain is right now..look where Europe is? why u still deny the good which came out of Muslim invasion? why r u having such a hard time to accept it?

Because there is no evidence for it worth mentioning and because the Spanish fought longer and harder with many more deaths than the Algerians to be rid of Muslim rule. They did not think it was good, why should I? But I am happy to apply universal standards - if the Muslim invasion of Spain was good, French rule in Algeria was better. Do you disagree?

Better life in wat sense? Buildings? schools? roads? French langauge? is thats wat u call a better life...how bout Valus? Principles? Justice? Pride? Dignity? FREEDOM?!

Better buildings, better roads, better health, better economy. An introduction to the modern world and science. What about values? France left the Algerians under Islamic law. Principles? The French taught some of those too. French justice was pretty good actually. If Muslims had no pride, why doesn't that apply to the Spanish? Same with dignity? And the Algerians still lack freedom so what is the relevance?
 
If saudia Arabia does such things it goes against the teachings of Islam by not allowing freedom of practice of Faith. Furthermore to "stop" someone is one thing but to "kill them" because they are preaching is another fact altogether!

So you're answer is "yes the Americans are justified in invading Saudi Arabia"? How else do you stop someone? And how about Iraq and Afghanistan which also prohibited Christians and Jews preaching Christianity and Judaism?

I am sure you are well aware of the fact of the type of atrcities which took place under the church under the labels of "witches" "blasphemers" and "heritics" in the middle ages in Europe.

Why do you think it is relevant?

I state again: The Muslim missionaries who went there were killed in the name of Jesus by the order of the Church (which was the controlling hand of the Govt in those times, or rather of the kings/ queens) and the women were kept captive. This is an act of war by any countries standards especially if they refuse to stop these activities.

I do not see that as an act of war. Why do you think it is?
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top