New atheist

[nosmarter]

Hello all and thank you for having me here. I'm here not to debate the validity of Islam nor to offend any member. On the other hand, I'm very interested in how believers do think, especially in the context of the modern, Western world. I'm not just picking on Muslims .. I've had many discussions with fundamentalist Christians also about the same things. I've tried to do the same with Muslims, but I find it more difficult because I don't find myself naturally in circles where they are and to be honest, I've found them to get offended quickly my questions when I do meet them. I suppose the current political climate doesn't help much.

So I'm hoping I can appeal to your hospitality and understanding when I do ask questions. Please know I mean no offense to you as a person if I ask a question that might seem impertinent. It's a question in which I sincerely want to know what your views are. If this is OK with you, then I thank you in advance. If not, you can always do the expedient thing other Islamic boards do and ban me (but I suspect that this board seems more open than the others).

As for myself, I've read the entire Old Testament, and the New Testament as well as the Quran. I'm now trying to find a good copy of the Reliance of the Traveller. I've also reads many books on evolution, Christian fundamentalism, Radical Islamic, "God is not Great" by Hitchens, "The God Delusion" by Dawkins, "The Islamist", and many others.

On a personal level, ironically, my son has been in a serious long-term relationship with a Pakistani Muslim girl. I've met her many times and think she's wonderful. But she has had to keep her relationship secret from her parents because they would react very badly. I fear a little for my son's safety, but even more so for hers. She no longer wears any head scarf and does have a sexual relationship with him.

Thank you all in advance and am looking forward to meeting you all online.

 

[Ümit]

İ do like a challenge...so bring it on. Make your questions critical and do not hold back...but promise us this:
Be honoust to yourself and to us.
İf you realise you are wrong...please admit and do not be stubborn and keep pushing your blind claim.
İ will do the same over here.
Good luck...
Hope we will get a nice and educative discussion

 

[anatolian]

Welcome. Your son’s relationship with the Pakistani girl is unislamic as you can guess. Your title made me think that you recently became an atheist at first. Btw when did and why did you become an atheist?

 

[Futuwwa]

:welcome:

I'm up for any discussion as long as you keep an open mind and give us the benefit of the doubt. I'll try to do the same

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Forgive me brothers and sisters for being the cynic, but this guys another internet atheist looking for trouble.

Lets Start

New Athiest

Bad start

Hello all and thank you for having me here. I'm here not to debate the validity of Islam nor to offend any member. On the other hand, I'm very interested in how believers do think, especially in the context of the modern, Western world. I'm not just picking on Muslims .. I've had many discussions with fundamentalist Christians also about the same things. I've tried to do the same with Muslims, but I find it more difficult because I don't find myself naturally in circles where they are and to be honest, I've found them to get offended quickly my questions when I do meet them. I suppose the current political climate doesn't help much.

Stop projecting, your not interested in debate, your looking for ways to 'undermine' and 'convert'.

So I'm hoping I can appeal to your hospitality and understanding when I do ask questions. Please know I mean no offense to you as a person if I ask a question that might seem impertinent. It's a question in which I sincerely want to know what your views are. If this is OK with you, then I thank you in advance.

Oh I'm sure you don't mean to offend, again stop projecting.

If not, you can always do the expedient thing other Islamic boards do and ban me (but I suspect that this board seems more open than the others).

Don't worry, we have a strict policy for internet atheists, step out of line and its the

for you.

As for myself, I've read the entire Old Testament, and the New Testament as well as the Quran. I'm now trying to find a good copy of the Reliance of the Traveller. I've also reads many books on evolution, Christian fundamentalism, Radical Islamic, "God is not Great" by Hitchens, "The God Delusion" by Dawkins, "The Islamist", and many others.

You can read books, AMAZING! Heres your gold star!

On a personal level, ironically, my son has been in a serious long-term relationship with a Pakistani Muslim girl. I've met her many times and think she's wonderful. But she has had to keep her relationship secret from her parents because they would react very badly. I fear a little for my son's safety, but even more so for hers. She no longer wears any head scarf and does have a sexual relationship with him.

Are your sure? Or are you not engaging in some orientalist fantasy? Its amazing didn't the atheist Pygo say same thing a couple of years back? Others as well

Thank you all in advance and am looking forward to meeting you all online.

We'll see how long you last.

One thing I'll say about internet atheists, they are predictable you've met one you've met them all.

 

[nosmarter]

Welcome. Your son’s relationship with the Pakistani girl is unislamic as you can guess. Your title made me think that you recently became an atheist at first. Btw when did and why did you become an atheist?

Yeah, well definitely do realize that about my son's girlfriend I've pretty much been an atheist my whole adult life. My father was an ethnic Jew, but never religious. My mother was raised Catholic, but she too abandoned her religion long before I was born. But in grade school I was surrounded by fundamentalist Christian fellow students and teachers.

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Thank you, Umie. That's good to hear and I appreciate the kind words. If I do step over the line, please do let me know. Thanks again.

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Thank you, Umie. That's good to hear and I appreciate the kind words. If I do step over the line, please do let me know. Thanks again.

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Thanks, Futuwwa. I appreciate it very much.

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Hi Junon - very sorry to hear you feel this way. Hope once you get to know me better you'll change your mind a bit.

 

[Ümit]

Yeah, well definitely do realize that about my son's girlfriend I've pretty much been an atheist my whole adult life. My father was an ethnic Jew, but never religious. My mother was raised Catholic, but she too abandoned her religion long before I was born. But in grade school I was surrounded by fundamentalist Christian fellow students and teachers.

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Thank you, Umie. That's good to hear and I appreciate the kind words. If I do step over the line, please do let me know. Thanks again.

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Thank you, Umie. That's good to hear and I appreciate the kind words. If I do step over the line, please do let me know. Thanks again.

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Thanks, Futuwwa. I appreciate it very much.

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Hi Junon - very sorry to hear you feel this way. Hope once you get to know me better you'll change your mind a bit.

in such an environment, no wonder you stay an atheist. No one provided you the information you need.
Welcome on Islamicboard.
ask what you want to know. don't take nothing for granted, be as critical as you can get. we can handle that...at least some of us will.

Islam follows a logical and therefore easy to follow path. you will also discover in time that the more you ask, the more logical it will get...as long as you stay open minded.
That is because every rule in Islam has a reason...it is not just a rule but it is logically derived from something. If you search long enough you will find the answer.

I greatly value discussions like this...because outsiders like you ask questions sometimes that never crossed my mind...and that makes me think from a different angle...it enables me to search and investigate...and discover new things about my religion.
and everytime that happens...I love my religion more and more.

Besides, If God created us humans, and all flora and fauna, and the entire universe...and even space time and light, then He also created the laws of nature.
This means that if we know that science is actually an approximation of reality based on facts out of observation, test and measurements of everything God has created, then we must conclude that Islam and science can never contradict each other.
and exactly that is where all the logic comes from.

 

[Abz2000]

this repetitive method of attempting to gain intellectual high ground by inserting implied accusations before embarking on a trolling crusade is quite old and the m.o is identical to those seen over the years.

Just thought i'd mention it on page one so that it doesn't falsely appear to anyone as a natural course of events.

[MENTION=25172]Junon[/MENTION] - pygo was also going on (after years of spending hours on islamicboard) about how he was "curious as to why a girl who he dated online turned out to be a Muslim when he met her (like it was some sort of blind date) and then when they happened to go to the beach together - she wore a bikini...... and whether it was normal and acceptable and ....... basically a bunch of meat waving sexually illustrious stories apparently aimed at debasing the mind "look! tits! nice! I say fun! You say Islam say no good! people then stop thinking because i've hacked their baser animalistic instinct"

I think the user should be banned for gossiping sexually promiscuous stories since they cause no benefit or understanding unless he is willing to carry out or demand the carrying out of the lawfully prescribed rulings on the perpetrators unless they repent.
That way his story will have a moral to it.


لَّا يُحِبُّ اللَّهُ الْجَهْرَ بِالسُّوءِ مِنَ الْقَوْلِ إِلَّا مَن ظُلِمَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ سَمِيعًا عَلِيمًا

Umm Muhammad (Sahih International)

Allah does not like the public mention of evil except by one who has been wronged. And ever is Allah Hearing and Knowing.

Quran, Chapter 4, Verse 148

 

[nosmarter]

Thanks again Umie, for being the voice of reason. I'll definitely be looking forward to discussions with you.

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this repetitive method of attempting to gain intellectual high ground by inserting implied accusations before embarking on a trolling crusade is quite old and the m.o is identical to those seen over the years.

Just thought i'd mention it on page one so that it doesn't falsely appear to anyone as a natural course of events.

@Junon - pygo was also going on (after years of spending hours on islamicboard) about how he was "curious as to why a girl who he dated online turned out to be a Muslim when he met her (like it was some sort of blind date) and then when they happened to go to the beach together - she wore a bikini...... and whether it was normal and acceptable and ....... basically a bunch of meat waving sexually illustrious stories apparently aimed at debasing the mind "look! tits! nice! I say fun! You say Islam say no good! people then stop thinking because i've hacked their baser animalistic instinct"

I think the user should be banned for gossiping sexually promiscuous stories since they cause no benefit or understanding unless he is willing to carry out or demand the carrying out of the lawfully prescribed rulings on the perpetrators unless they repent.
That way his story will have a moral to it.


لَّا يُحِبُّ اللَّهُ الْجَهْرَ بِالسُّوءِ مِنَ الْقَوْلِ إِلَّا مَن ظُلِمَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ سَمِيعًا عَلِيمًا

Umm Muhammad (Sahih International)

Allah does not like the public mention of evil except by one who has been wronged. And ever is Allah Hearing and Knowing.

Quran, Chapter 4, Verse 148

I can't say I know who this Pygo guy was, but I have nothing to do with him. I certainly don't want no need to pay for whatever he did here, whatever it was. I find it interesting that despite me having said nothing offensive other than I'm an atheist, you chose to post a picture of a Hitler rally. I have absolutely no idea what the correlation is here.

As for my son's girlfriend - they seem to love each other and care about each other. It's my son we're talking about here, so you can be sure that there there will be no mention of any sexually explicit posts here even if I was privy to any (thankfully to which I'm not). I have respect for the girl because she's well-spoken, well educated, and intelligent. I also met her younger brother who is very much the same. They're both fine young people. I brought this up for the sake of full disclosure and not to antagonize anyone. It would seem to me that this is too important a detail to leave out given the context of this board. And maybe to a certain extent there is a selfish motive in that I worry about her and a little bit for my son and so I'm hoping in part to get the perspective of the parents from you since I haven't had the chance to meet them yet.

So I guess maybe you might save your vitrol for later when I do start asking questions that might bother you. Seems like you're shooting all your cannons a bit too quickly, no?

 

[Abz2000]

Thanks again Umie, for being the voice of reason. I'll definitely be looking forward to discussions with you.

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Interesting how you choose to flatter the only person who (probably pitifully) bothered to humour your rebellion promoting post, and also the fact that you chose to brand it as " the voice of reason " .

I can't say I know who this Pygo guy was, but I have nothing to do with him. I certainly don't want no need to pay for whatever he did here, whatever it was.

Why can't you say you know him? Did your boss prevent you from mentioning it under this username? How many times have you been banned? Is this your last chance or something?

I find it interesting that despite me having said nothing offensive other than I'm an atheist, you chose to post a picture of a Hitler rally. I have absolutely no idea what the correlation is here.

Unless you've been living in a hole and don't know that atheism is anarchist orwellian falsehood, you would have known that hitler was a usurer controlled atheist shill who also sexed his murderous image up with imagery of waving cooing girls and stories of love between nazi soldiers and cute naive girls.
When you mention sexual indecency in a positive light - it is not far from the pavlovian method of getting dogs and juveniles to salivate at the ring of a bell - not unlike the method of clothing horrendous crimes with mentions of mouth watering ice cream.

"They hate things - we love things"
George W. Bush (21st century liar, false flag reischstagger, and mass murderer).

As for my son's girlfriend - they seem to love each other and care about each other. It's my son we're talking about here, so you can be sure that there there will be no mention of any sexually explicit posts here even if I was privy to any (thankfully to which I'm not).

You casually mentioned that they have unmarried sex - don't you know that it is not lawful to promote unlawful sexual intercourse - and that it should be removed from society through promotion of lawful actions?

I have respect for the girl because she's well-spoken, well educated, and intelligent. I also met her younger brother who is very much the same. They're both fine young people.

Lol - are you not blatantly attempting to promote their unlawful actions via generalisation with positive sounding associations?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalization

I brought this up for the sake of full disclosure and not to antagonize anyone. It would seem to me that this is too important a detail to leave out given the context of this board.

Full disclosure of an action which you know is unlawful - spiced up with feel good sounding titilations - to what end other than promotion of decadence? are you a concerned father who would like guidance on how to bring them within the limits and guidelines of Islam?

And maybe to a certain extent there is a selfish motive in that I worry about her and a little bit for my son and so I'm hoping in part to get the perspective of the parents from you since I haven't had the chance to meet them yet.

awww, perfick perfick - so now you want to put all fathers on "the darling buds of may" empathy boat - well, let me inform you without ambiguity that the girl (if she actually exists in real life) is far from Islam and that her sexual interactions with your son are unlawful, your son's (if he actually exists in real life) sexual interactions with her are unlawful, that your passiveness is unlawful (know who pop larkin is?) , and that you must keep your unlawful actions quiet unless you want to accept the prescribed correctional punishments - and that you must immediately come within the boundaries of Islam to the best of your reasonable ability - and it is God who ultimately judges what is reasonable.
Anyone could give a similarly clothed story with the variable being the girl as his own daughter or wife - such an incestuous tale would only be cooed at by totally lost unintelligent anarchists.

So I guess maybe you might save your vitrol for later when I do start asking questions that might bother you.

It's not vitriol at all, it's shifaa -unless you're a dhuaalim - in which case it'll increase you in well-deserved loss upon loss.

Seems like you're shooting all your cannons a bit too quickly, no?

Prudence is a useful mechanism - especially when it's an obvious and oft-seen repeat of false kaafir propaganda that starts off with "i'm an a$shole -please help me" like someone trolling the samaritans helpline for kicks.

 

[Scimitar]

Hello all and thank you for having me here. I'm here not to debate the validity of Islam nor to offend any member. On the other hand, I'm very interested in how believers do think, especially in the context of the modern, Western world. I'm not just picking on Muslims .. I've had many discussions with fundamentalist Christians also about the same things. I've tried to do the same with Muslims, but I find it more difficult because I don't find myself naturally in circles where they are and to be honest, I've found them to get offended quickly my questions when I do meet them. I suppose the current political climate doesn't help much.

So I'm hoping I can appeal to your hospitality and understanding when I do ask questions. Please know I mean no offense to you as a person if I ask a question that might seem impertinent. It's a question in which I sincerely want to know what your views are. If this is OK with you, then I thank you in advance. If not, you can always do the expedient thing other Islamic boards do and ban me (but I suspect that this board seems more open than the others).

As for myself, I've read the entire Old Testament, and the New Testament as well as the Quran. I'm now trying to find a good copy of the Reliance of the Traveller. I've also reads many books on evolution, Christian fundamentalism, Radical Islamic, "God is not Great" by Hitchens, "The God Delusion" by Dawkins, "The Islamist", and many others.

On a personal level, ironically, my son has been in a serious long-term relationship with a Pakistani Muslim girl. I've met her many times and think she's wonderful. But she has had to keep her relationship secret from her parents because they would react very badly. I fear a little for my son's safety, but even more so for hers. She no longer wears any head scarf and does have a sexual relationship with him.

Thank you all in advance and am looking forward to meeting you all online.

Yeah welcome and all formal nonsense,

you said you had questions.

Not read even one.

So what are you doing here again?

 

[nosmarter]

Interesting how you choose to flatter the only person who (probably pitifully) bothered to humour your rebellion promoting post, and also the fact that you chose to brand it as " the voice of reason " .




Why can't you say you know him? Did your boss prevent you from mentioning it under this username? How many times have you been banned? Is this your last chance or something?




Unless you've been living in a hole and don't know that atheism is anarchist orwellian falsehood, you would have known that hitler was a usurer controlled atheist shill who also sexed his murderous image up with imagery of waving cooing girls and stories of love between nazi soldiers and cute naive girls.
When you mention sexual indecency in a positive light - it is not far from the pavlovian method of getting dogs and juveniles to salivate at the ring of a bell - not unlike the method of clothing horrendous crimes with mentions of mouth watering ice cream.

"They hate things - we love things"
George W. Bush (21st century liar, false flag reischstagger, and mass murderer).




You casually mentioned that they have unmarried sex - don't you know that it is not lawful to promote unlawful sexual intercourse - and that it should be removed from society through promotion of lawful actions?



Lol - are you not blatantly attempting to promote their unlawful actions via generalisation with positive sounding associations?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalization

Full disclosure of an action which you know is unlawful - spiced up with feel good sounding titilations - to what end other than promotion of decadence? are you a concerned father who would like guidance on how to bring them within the limits and guidelines of Islam?



awww, perfick perfick - so now you want to put all fathers on "the darling buds of may" empathy boat - well, let me inform you without ambiguity that the girl (if she actually exists in real life) is far from Islam and that her sexual interactions with your son are unlawful, your son's (if he actually exists in real life) sexual interactions with her are unlawful, that your passiveness is unlawful (know who pop larkin is?) , and that you must keep your unlawful actions quiet unless you want to accept the prescribed correctional punishments - and that you must immediately come within the boundaries of Islam to the best of your reasonable ability - and it is God who ultimately judges what is reasonable.
Anyone could give a similarly clothed story with the variable being the girl as his own daughter or wife - such an incestuous tale would only be cooed at by totally lost unintelligent anarchists.


It's not vitriol at all, it's shifaa -unless you're a dhuaalim - in which case it'll increase you in well-deserved loss upon loss.





Prudence is a useful mechanism - especially when it's an obvious and oft-seen repeat of false kaafir propaganda that starts off with "i'm an a$shole -please help me" like someone trolling the samaritans helpline for kicks.

Whoa! How did you know? <on hands and knees looking for the hidden webcam/> Not that it matters, but Hitler wasn't an atheist - he was a Christian. He even describes himself as such in Mein Kampf.

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Yeah welcome and all formal nonsense,

you said you had questions.

Not read even one.

So what are you doing here again?

I did post one yesterday. I was asking about the book "Reliance of the Traveller". Thanks.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Just to further elaborate what I mean by an internet atheist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqdNYQpuNZg

Familiar isn’t it?

I was harsh but with reason, contrary to the claims that they make (were here for dialogue, peace, or understanding etc) it usually ends up if they can’t persuade you they will try to undermine and disrupt a forum like this over time. It happens time and time again in many forums (like this) I’ve visited over the years to the point you just have to agree to disagree and go your separate ways.

Many have malicious intent though they mask it, but the longer they spend their time here the more likely the mask is going to slip. You only have to look at the experience here over the years.

One atheist was dumb enough to admit the real reason why he (and many other atheists) comes here, to lead us slowly and subtly away from our faith, when I quoted it and called him out on it, he made some lame excuses and if I recall quickly left.

Pygo kept relentlessly trying to change our minds till the point he almost had a mental breakdown, looks like his liberal utopia not going to happen.

Or how about the ultra-civilized Czgibson he kept up the pretence for over a decade, but look at his latest posts over the last year or so, notice the change? Remember his demented rant about us being ‘primitives’? More and more he kept trying to persuade us to abandon the straight path, till he himself got banned. I think you could class him as a forked tongued liberal.

Or how about the atheist who made his flowery declaration of faith (that he is an atheist) in his first post. Ok, fine but why here of all places? Why not on an atheist forum? Its strange behaviour.

Or how about the ones who pretend to be Muslims, they are beyond dire.

I could go on and on but I’m sure long term members and mods have had similar experiences hence they reason why they get turfed out at a regular intervals, to such an extent many internet atheists just give up coming here.

Look at this guy, his whole post is a 'red flag'. Lets take the last part, his son is supposedly having a relationship with a Muslim women and describes it in detail. Why? You’re the father don’t you think it’s your responsibility not to broadcast intimate matter regarding your family on a public forum? He did this in his first post! Aren’t you mature enough to understand that some things should be kept private? It’s strange unless he’s posting for the sake of being ‘edgy’ and ‘provocative’. Atheists as we all know love to be ‘edgy’ and ‘provocative’. It’s happened a couple of times in the past this line of ‘attack’ so forgive me for being ‘sceptical’ .

Maybe I’ve judged this person harshly, I’m happy to be proved wrong but I’m not holding my breath.

oh what a surprise.

Whoa! How did you know? <on hands and knees looking for the hidden webcam/> Not that it matters, but Hitler wasn't an atheist - he was a Christian. He even describes himself as such in Mein Kampf.

Christian really? Come on internet atheist you can do better than that! He lied a lot and was pragmatic more than anything else, he was a secular first and foremost only interested in amassing power for himself and his nation.

Ah I see his mask of civility is beginning to slip, already! I know its hard to maintain masks but come on, At least try.

 

[Scimitar]

I did post one yesterday. I was asking about the book "Reliance of the Traveller". Thanks.

What does that have to do with your son dating a Muslim girl?

 

[nosmarter]

What does that have to do with your son dating a Muslim girl?

Nothing, why?

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Salaam

Just to further elaborate what I mean by an internet atheist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqdNYQpuNZg

..

That was pretty funny

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR][TD]My Interview With an Angry Internet Atheist (funny) - YouTube
Subscribe & click the bell

 

[Alamgir]

he was a Christian. He even describes himself as such in Mein Kampf.

But his ideology is deeply rooted in atheistic beliefs, i.e survival of the fittest.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. Sorry about everyone else's scepticism and hostility but you have to understand that the internet is not a friendly place for Muslims, with Atheists being the most prominent community in Islamophobic circles.

If you want to learn about Islam, ask questions here and use these websites:

https://islamqa.info/en

http://www.islamweb.net/en/

You said you read the Quran, but that is not sufficient and may in fact give you the wrong idea. You should read a Tafsir, the best one available in English is Ibn Kathir's (funnily enough, many also consider it the best Tafsir in general):

http://www.qtafsir.com/

You should also read as many Sahih and Hasan Hadees as possible:

https://sunnah.com/

 

[nosmarter]

Thanks Al Khorasani, I appreciate it. I'm actually pleasantly surprised by how nice and welcoming the majority of most members here have been so far. In every group you're going to have a few that are going to be particularly virulent; it's just the way it is. Not much you and I can do about that.

That said, we need to keep in mind that no matter how bad someone's intentions are coming here, the most they can do is post words in a forum. If it's especially offensive, the moderators I'm sure are quick to take care of it.

 

[Scimitar]

Nothing, why?

because your arrival here makes no sense!

 

[Ümit]

A short discussion between Bushwack and nosmarter:

Yeah welcome and all formal nonsense,
you said you had questions.
Not read even one.
So what are you doing here again?

I did post one yesterday. I was asking about the book "Reliance of the Traveller". Thanks.

What does that have to do with your son dating a Muslim girl?

Nothing, why?

because your arrival here makes no sense!

Just look at the level of this conversation and how it makes perfectly sense.
People, do we have to act as if we have a few screws loose?
Is this the attitude our beloved Prophet sas would promote?

No, right? then please act upon it.

 

[Abz2000]

[MENTION=42042]umie[/MENTION] - he'll know that members are on the troll hunt and he'll hopefully be straightforward and sincere (if he knows sincerity) in his questions rather than spicing them up with flowery illusionist propaganda